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Posted: 7/3/2001 7:59:53 AM EDT
I live in Georgia and I may have an opportunity to sell a rifle to someone in Alabama. Is a private party sale legal if we meet in person? Bradd
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 8:31:51 AM EDT
Not legal unless you're an FFL holder, and he drives to your licensed premises or a gunshow in your state. Otherwise, you'll have to ship the rifle to a dealer in Alabama to stay legal.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 8:37:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 9:18:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2001 9:16:00 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]
Federal law (27CFR) prohibits the sale of a firearm to a resident of another state unless they are an FFL holder. If you hold an FFL, you may sell to a resident of another state if the transaction is legal in both states.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 10:14:53 AM EDT
Holy SH*T! There are a lot of law breakers out there in TV land. I was under the impression that Federal law covered the transport/shipping of firearms across state lines (and all the destructive devices, machine guns, yada yada yada).
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 11:28:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SGB: I respectfully dissent. I know of no law that prohibits a private individual from purchasing a firearm from another private individual in a face to face sale.
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I appreciate the respect, SGB - but it's still illegal for unlicensed persons to sell firearms ACROSS STATE LINES, whether it be face-to-face or via mail.
[b]From the ATF FAQ:[/b] (B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her State, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any State. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29] (B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? A person may only buy a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. [18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29] (B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29]
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EOD: That's correct, but only for long guns - handguns may only be sold to a resident of the sellers state, unless the purchaser is a licensee.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 2:24:05 PM EDT
I really appreciate the help, guys! Can I ship the rifle to his FFL or do I have to ship it through my FFL to his? Bradd
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 4:47:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 3:56:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bradd D: I really appreciate the help, guys! Can I ship the rifle to his FFL or do I have to ship it through my FFL to his? Bradd
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You can ship to his FFL. Unless, of course, his FFL won't accept it if it doesn't come from another FFL.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:25:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 12:13:03 PM EDT
Could I have you guys address a very specific example: I live in Oregon, if I wanted to buy a long gun from a non FFL in Washington. Could he/she box up the gun, send it to my FFL in Oregon. At which point we fill out paperwork, I pay the FFL for the transfer and the gun, and then the FFL in Oregon will send funds to the private seller in Washington. Is there any more simplistic easy way to make this happen. Could I meet him in Wash. go to an FFL and do the transfer there? Could he meet me in OR and go to an FFL and do the transfer here? One more unrelated question. What if I move from Oregon to Washinton with all of my guns that I have purchased locally in Oregon with no transfers on record? Do I have to send them to myself through an FFL? or declare them somehow? All of these issues never occured to me before now, so any explanations would be greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 12:42:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 12:48:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tom Collins: I live in Oregon, if I wanted to buy a long gun from a non FFL in Washington. Could he/she box up the gun, send it to my FFL in Oregon. At which point we fill out paperwork, I pay the FFL for the transfer and the gun, and then the FFL in Oregon will send funds to the private seller in Washington.
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You could do it that way, but the more usual way is for you to pay the seller in WA, who ships the gun direct to your FFL in OR. Your FFL does the background check, and you pay him his transfer fee, then you take gun home.
Is there any more simplistic easy way to make this happen. Could I meet him in Wash. go to an FFL and do the transfer there? Could he meet me in OR and go to an FFL and do the transfer here?
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You could do that, but the private seller would actually have to sell or consign the gun to the WA FFL, and you'd purchase the gun from the WA FFL. Your WA seller could hand-carry the gun to your OR FFL, and you'd pay the OR seller his money, and your FFL his transfer fee - if that's how you want to do it.
One more unrelated question. What if I move from Oregon to Washinton with all of my guns that I have purchased locally in Oregon with no transfers on record? Do I have to send them to myself through an FFL? or declare them somehow? All of these issues never occured to me before now, so any explanations would be greatly appreciated.
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You can move your guns with all your other household goods. They don't have to go through an FFL, since you're not selling them, just moving and changing your state of residence. If WA requires registration of firearms, you'd have to 'declare' or register them, but I don't think WA requires that. California requires you to register your handguns when you move into the state, as would New York (state). Obviously, if some of your guns are illegal in the state you're moving to (again, not an issue with Washington), you couldn't legally bring those guns with you. In that case, you'd need to leave the forbidden guns behind if you had someone/some place to do so, or sell them off.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:46:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2001 7:32:14 PM EDT by Tom Collins]
Thanks for the clarification. That makes much more sense now. One more thing. Does the seller need to send any information with the gun, or fill out any for the transfer that should be included with the gun. Can it just be a gun in a box?
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 5:00:49 AM EDT
The seller would usually just furnish his name and address. A nice touch would be to send you the serial number of the weapon and a tracking number when he ships it.
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 6:36:31 AM EDT
Sounds logical to me. Thanx. Someone should make a "shipping firearms accross state lines for fun and profit without going to prison" FAQ.
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 6:57:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 11:31:02 PM EDT
Some states allow a person to buy a gun in a contingent state. Washington is contingent to Oregon. Alabama is contingent to Georgia. Does Alabama allow its citizens to buy in a contingent state ? If so, why can't the guy come to Georgia and just buy it directly under the Private Sales/Contingent States Rules. This is no different from going to a gunshow in another state. Fllowing that logic, wouldn't it be illegal for a dealer at a gun show to sell to a person that hasn't shown proof that he is from the dealer's state ?
Link Posted: 7/7/2001 6:08:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2001 7:50:19 AM EDT by rkbar15]
cc48510: For an unlicensed person under federal law [b]ALL[/b] transfers not in your state of residence require the transfer by an FFL. In addition handguns can only be transferred from a non-resident to a resident of another state by an FFL in the receivers state of residence. Examples: I am a resident of state "A." I can transfer and receive long/handguns from another resident of state "A." I can receive a long gun from an FFL in person in any state. I can only receive a handgun from a non-resident of state “A” if the transfer is done by a state "A" FFL [b]IN[/b] state "A." I can't receive a handgun directly from an out of state person or FFL. [b]All state and local laws as to transfer and possession of firearms supercede federal law.[/b] For example: NY limits the transfer of long guns to contiguous (bordering) states. If I want to receive a long gun from another state the transfer must be handled in NYS by a NYS FFL. DISCLAIMER: As always this crap is not legal advice. Consult a competent attorney to decipher the more than 20,000 confusing firearms law.
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 6:57:22 AM EDT
That still raises the gun show question. If I go to a gun show in a contiguous state, then I cannot buy a firearm ? But, I can buy from a dealer in a contiguous state ? Lets say I live in Pensacola and there is a gunshow in Mobile. Then, even though the states are contiguous I cannot buy a firearm from the gun show ?
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 7:31:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 4:20:39 PM EDT
Let me first say I do not intend to do anything illegal. What if you have homes in more than one state. Can you claim residency in in each of the states ? For example, I have a permanant home in South Florida. I currently go to college and rent away from home. Since I have 2 residences, sould I claim both. For example, when I rent a place in AL, could I still claim my home in South Florida ? I planned to claim AL residency for multiple reasons, but I would still have a second place in Florida. Sorry, but I am trying to figure out all the questions regarding my intention to rent a place in AL.
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 5:02:56 PM EDT
If you maintain physical residences in more than one state, living at each alternately during different parts of the year, you are considered a resident of the state in which you are residing for purposes of purchasing firearms. A college student, while in residence at college, can purchase firearms in the state where their college residence is located, as a resident. Even if they still maintain a valid drivers license and permanent residence elsewhere during other parts of the year.
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 5:03:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 5:05:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2001 5:04:16 PM EDT by Circuits]
Nope, Chuck - the ATF quidelines specifically address this, and you can be a multi-state resident as long as you have a residence in each state, and you're legally a resident of whichever one you're living in. Works for buying machine guns, too.
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 6:39:39 PM EDT
You can legally be a resident of several states but you can only maintain one domicile. A domicile is generally where you intend to always return and where you are registered to vote. A residence is nothing more then a place where you intend to reside. It does not have to be your domicile in order to purchase firearms. It can't however be just a vacant piece of property. As far as driver licenses are concerned most states require that you obtain a license if you are continuously in the state for a period of time. In NY I believe it's 30 days. Active military have different rules. You don't have to have a driver license to purchase firearms. A picture ID issued by a governmental authority should suffice. NY issues Non-Driver ID cards to establish your identity and address.
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