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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 5/22/2001 2:13:39 PM EDT
If you ever wondered who is safer, CCW holders or cops, a new report from the police themselves will show you who. News at the "piggy bank" icon at: National CCW Reciprocity Foundation http://www.NationalCCW.com or http://www.homestead.com/njccw/nationalccw.html
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 2:23:50 PM EDT
What if the Gun Toter also happens to be a COP??
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 3:06:37 PM EDT
You are only safe if your gun is unloaded. Or if you are with a non-cop.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 3:24:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Oslow: You are only safe if your gun is unloaded. Or if you are with a non-cop.
View Quote
Hmmmmmmmmm..sounds like the words of someone who has issues with the police. Could it be you have seen the rear seat of a squad car before?
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 10:43:58 PM EDT
Words from Gun Owners of America, that I'm repeating & i've given them credit for the story. Never been arrested or convicted of anything, however I have filed many complaints against the police and am testifying for a woman who was harrased by a cop who I filed a complaint against.
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 7:39:06 AM EDT
Cop hater then.
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 10:22:39 AM EDT
Me and Gun Owners of America!
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 5:17:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2001 5:22:29 PM EDT by Dave_G]
When you consider that the vast majority of rank and file law enforcement is on our side, your unbridled hatred of police is seriously misdirected. You have no clue...No clue at all. Just hate. What a waste.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 7:33:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2001 7:31:49 AM EDT by dissipator556]
Here is an interesting stat regarding LEO's and CWP's: Since Concealed Weapon's Permits were issued here in FL, CWP holders have a lower rate of crime than off-duty police officers! This is amazing, and I have heard that the numbers for the Nation are being tabulated (it looks like this will be the case for CWP holders Nationwide). Just my .02- I will find and cite the source if anyone wishes.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 8:43:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2001 8:43:29 AM EDT by Oslow]
Originally Posted By Gun Toter: Hmmmmmmmmm..sounds like the words of someone who has issues with the police. Could it be you have seen the rear seat of a squad car before?
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Hardly. I just read the article and made a rather flip comment. There are a lot of cops in LA that have seen the back seat though. [url]http://www.NationalCCW.com[/url] "The LAPD by its own admissions perpetrates more violent crimes than do [carry] permit holders in North Carolina, South Carolina, & Virginia combined," No one has disputed the accuracy of the post, just bad-mouthed the poster. Interesting.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 11:05:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2001 8:08:45 PM EDT by Dave_G]
Actually, the post takes stats generated by a very, very small number of LAPD officers who went bad or were bad and slipped through the system and paints the entire department as bunch of criminals. Civilian CCW holders are by their nature, law-abiding and far less likely to engage in criminal activity. Criminals rarely apply for CCWs and few get them. It is also an unfortunate fact that some agencies are so strapped for personnel, that they have to be less "picky" about who they hire, and some agencies, like the DC police in the '90s, unknowingly hired at least one new recruit straight out of prison because their background investigations were seriously faulty. Comparison of rogue police officers to a group CCW holders from states with relatively low violent crime rates and drawing the broad conclusion based on that limited and biased sample is as corrupt a manipulation of statistics as we constantly see from the anti-gun groups. If you want to extend shall-issue CCW laws, then you need the support of law enforcement. You don't get that by insulting every honest cop around by throwing up manipulated stats and proclaiming CCW holders to be "safer" than police. CCW holders are far less likely to engage in violent, unlawful activity than the population as a whole. I, for one, believe that there should be a mandate that states create uniform shall-issue permit systems, and that those permits be honored in all 50 states. As a retired officer, I know that criminals fear armed, law-abiding citizens carrying concealed so much that they choose other, non-violent crimes to commit. As a side note, in Florida, off-duty police officers who wish to carry a concealed weapon must get the same CCW as civilians. It would appear that "diss's" claimed stats can't be valid since the off-duty officers are by Florida law, among the group of CCW holders.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 1:13:44 PM EDT
Dave G That last one was your best shot.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 2:50:39 AM EDT
Bizarre - Florida off-duty police officers must have a CCW? That's about the weirdest thing I've ever heard. When I was a LEO, we were [i]required[/i] by department policy to carry off-duty since we were considered LEOs 24/7 and expected to respond to any crime or criminal situation that we might encounter any time. According to department SOP, we were subject to disciplinary proceedings if we were in our jurisdiction off-duty and were [i]not[/i] armed (although I can't recall that being enforced). But, that was in Texas - apparently a very different place from FL...
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:44:29 AM EDT
The stat about CCW holders being safer and more law abiding than cops is useful if you ever want to get national reciprocity. The reason is, we will need the soccer moms and other people on the fence to vote and lobby with us. Even the most ardent supporter of gun control probably would not advocate disarming the police. If we can show that CCW holders are at least AS safe and at least AS law abiding as LEO's, we have done much to dispel the myth of "more guns=more crime."
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 9:04:47 AM EDT
To nationalCCW, My first though is to tell you to eat shit and die, but that would only be the same as the liberal trash that you aspire to associate with. The very whinning effort that you engage in to denigrate leo's must come from a liberal at heart, since it is apparent that you can not stand for someone to tell you no. You give us these flippant remarks about filing complaints, and testifying for someone. What makes you an expert, and under what conditions do you file complaints. Is that for a second party or for yourself. You refer to a skewed study that involves bad cops, hell I can if I look hard enough find flawed studies about any type of profession that deals with the public. You whine like a failed wantabe, that could never quite make the grade, perhaps you are the MALL NINJA's supreme leader. Dave G said it in fewer words you are full of hate, and you have no idea how many leo's are freedom loving individuals who support the 2nd and all that it stands for and they dispise all of the gun laws that are forced down our throats. However when those of your ilk come along we begin to wonder just who is the enemy.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 9:49:29 AM EDT
NCCW and Diss, As long as you argue that CCW holders are "safer" or "more law-abiding" than "off-duty cops", or continue to spew anti-police invective and black helicopter propaganda, your efforts to extend CCW privileges nationally will fail. It’s the politicians and law enforcement management (not rank and file) that needs to be convinced, not soccer moms or no-nothings sitting on the fence. Your “stats” are meaningless crap because, like the anti-gun crowd, you are picking and choosing numbers and manipulating the results. Only a moron wouldn’t see that. Only a moron would think that no one else would notice.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:34:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 8:34:53 PM EDT by dissipator556]
Dear Presumptuous One, How kind- I'm anti-Police now...hmmm, I'll leave that one alone and think about it next time you guys come calling the house for more money from me again this year. Are you so hyper-sensitive that you fail to realize the strategic importance of these stats? Despite offending your bloated ego's a bit, these stats are useful for convincing voters (I could give a shit about the politicians or LE higher-ups) to respect CWP holders and their cause. Your (and all other LEO's) honor as a safe, law-abiding officer is not at stake here. As I mentioned earlier, not even the most ardent anti-gunner is in favor of disarming the police (hopefully). Therefore, the stats are incredibly helpful in legitimizing CWP holders as a law-abiding, safe group of people. Where the voters go, so go the politicians.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 10:44:37 PM EDT
Diss, Politicians write and pass laws. They rely on the law enforcement administrators, who are actually fellow politicians, to provide "expert" advice on the subject of CCW's. The last thing that soccer moms and fence sitters want to hear is that their police are "unsafe" or criminals. They see those shouting that from the hilltops as members of the lunatic black helicopter crowd, the second-to-last people they want to see wandering the streets armed. Further, your stats are worthless because they are obviously engineered to yield a specific result. They are no less a lie than the "statistics" the anti-gunners use to show that civilians rarely use guns for self defense. When the lie is exposed, your entire position is discredited. That you can't see it is a pity. That you must resort to feeble attempts at insults to make your points further erodes your credibility. As for the comment about soliciting for money at your house, the agency I worked for does no such thing and neither does the officer's association nearly all of us belong to.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 1:39:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave G: Actually, the post takes stats generated by a very, very small number of LAPD officers who went bad or were bad and slipped through the system and paints the entire department as bunch of criminals. Civilian CCW holders are by their nature, law-abiding and far less likely to engage in criminal activity. Criminals rarely apply for CCWs and few get them. It is also an unfortunate fact that some agencies are so strapped for personnel, that they have to be less "picky" about who they hire, and some agencies, like the DC police in the '90s, unknowingly hired at least one new recruit straight out of prison because their background investigations were seriously faulty. Comparison of rogue police officers to a group CCW holders from states with relatively low violent crime rates and drawing the broad conclusion based on that limited and biased sample is as corrupt a manipulation of statistics as we constantly see from the anti-gun groups. If you want to extend shall-issue CCW laws, then you need the support of law enforcement. You don't get that by insulting every honest cop around by throwing up manipulated stats and proclaiming CCW holders to be "safer" than police. CCW holders are far less likely to engage in violent, unlawful activity than the population as a whole. I, for one, believe that there should be a mandate that states create uniform shall-issue permit systems, and that those permits be honored in all 50 states. As a retired officer, I know that criminals fear armed, law-abiding citizens carrying concealed so much that they choose other, non-violent crimes to commit. As a side note, in Florida, off-duty police officers who wish to carry a concealed weapon must get the same CCW as civilians. It would appear that "diss's" claimed stats can't be valid since the off-duty officers are by Florida law, among the group of CCW holders.
View Quote
Wow, David, that is the most intelligent thing I’ve ever heard you say. Although your other posts on this thread were a little quick and harsh, I think you’re getting better at being diplomatic.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 9:20:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2001 9:26:48 PM EDT by dissipator556]
The next time Fraternal Order of Police calls my house, I'll quote them the stats. If they don't hang up, I'll give them more money. To say that police officers are involved in .009% of total crime (and/or accidental shootings)and that CCW holders are invovled in .008% of total crime (and/or accidental shootings) would not be implicating either party of being non law-abiding. Join me in a few more Crispy Creme's and a cup of joe- nobody is trying to dishonor the police. Swaying American public opinion is far more important than anything else, in the long run. The people elect the representatives who eventually become the LEO higer-ups' bosses. The reps make the laws, etc, etc. Long term public support trumps everything. The stats are indeed accurate and clear. To dispute them is to further make yourself look silly.
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