Effect of AWB Sunset on "Post-ban" Firearms - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Effect of AWB Sunset on "Post-ban" Firearms (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 3/30/2004 4:12:12 AM EDT

[#1]

That's certainly an etiquette violation, at the very least. It should be a forum rules violation, too.

I vote that blazinglead be suspended, if not banned.

CJ

Posted: 3/30/2004 2:05:58 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

I've learned a lot since I registered. I dare say that I am as well versed on the law concerning the AW ban, and on the mental state of Congress on the issue, as anyone here. I've spent enough time researching it, so I should know.

View Quote

Then leave the trolls alone and respond to my post. You speak in very absolute terms about the AWB not being reenacted, but you haven't excluded the other avenues that I mentioned, such as a House bill.

Posted: 3/30/2004 4:45:55 PM EDT

[#3]

Have you paid attention to who's in the House and what their stances are on gun control laws?

The odds of ANY gun control bill of ANY KIND getting through THIS house are pretty near astronomical.

It's safe to say that this House won't be having any part of ANY gun control laws including AW bans of any stripe.

CJ

Posted: 3/30/2004 6:09:31 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Have you paid attention to who's in the House and what their stances are on gun control laws?

The odds of ANY gun control bill of ANY KIND getting through THIS house are pretty near astronomical.

It's safe to say that this House won't be having any part of ANY gun control laws including AW bans of any stripe.

View Quote

Yes, I have paid attention. However, I didn't ask about odds - I don't work in Vegas. The passage of an AWB renewal is unlikely this point, but it is not, as far as I know, a procedural impossibility yet.

Your prior post was full of very absolute, conclusory statements. I won't bother quoting them, they're on the previous page of this thread. I believe the word "DEFINITELY" was used. Suffice it to say that, while it might be "politically unlikely," it is not yet definite. A lot can happen in 6 months.

Posted: 4/1/2004 11:56:30 AM EDT

[#5]

I think what creates a lot of confusion in a lot of peoples minds is that some states have there own bans ie. California. New York enacted an "Assault Waepons Ban" a few years ago. NY law mirrors Federal law except it does not sunset. In New York you may posses Pre 94 style ARs and Hi cap mags but anything after that is a no no. Whereas states like Florida once the Federal law sunsets it's over. Hope this helps.

Posted: 4/1/2004 5:11:53 PM EDT

[#6]

This thread has really gone south.

I hope a new one starts when somebody has some valid information and not a bunch of shithouse lawyer talk.

Posted: 4/2/2004 12:01:06 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
This thread has really gone south.

I hope a new one starts when somebody has some valid information and not a bunch of shithouse lawyer talk.

View Quote

The main question has been answered. Several times. There will be no residual effects if and when the ban sunsets.

People here seem to have a real problem staying on topic. There is a very simple, narrow issue that I posed. This thread isn't (or wasn't supposed to be) about philosophical, broad constitutional, "what I think about the ATF," etc.

Posted: 4/26/2004 4:47:45 PM EDT

[#8]

does this mean I can put a bayo on my lever action 30-30?

Posted: 5/8/2004 3:50:08 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
does this mean I can put a bayo on my lever action 30-30?

Since this thread has gone as far out as it has, guess this can't trash it any further----

If your lever action 30-30 doesn't have a detachable magazine, I think you can--today--put a bayonet, a flash hider, a collapsable stock, and a margarita machine on it, as it wouldn't fit the definition of an AW. In fact that sounds like the perfect deer gun to me. Margaritas only after the hunt, of course. Safety, you know.

Posted: 5/9/2004 5:04:55 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
does this mean I can put a bayo on my lever action 30-30?

Since this thread has gone as far out as it has, guess this can't trash it any further----

If your lever action 30-30 doesn't have a detachable magazine, I think you can--today--put a bayonet, a flash hider, a collapsable stock, and a margarita machine on it, as it wouldn't fit the definition of an AW. In fact that sounds like the perfect deer gun to me. Margaritas only after the hunt, of course. Safety, you know.

Also, the law covers semi-autos, not levers

Posted: 6/5/2004 4:17:46 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Dude, the AW ban is ALREADY all but gone right now.

By the rules that Congress operates under, a bill (or an amendment to a bill) can only be offered ONCE in a given legislative year, and the anti's already blew their wad by getting an amendment to extend the ban...an amendment that was attached to the gun industry lawsuit protection act, which TANKED. So, that amendment is DEAD for this year. They can NOT reintroduce ANY bill to extend the AW ban during THIS LEGISLATIVE YEAR. (Calendar year)

Uh, you were saying something?

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=247998

Posted: 6/24/2004 11:03:44 PM EDT

[#12]

Well, here we are, a little more than two months to go! I can't wait to go to my gun dealer and order my M-4!!!!!!!! I've been working a little overtime and setting aside my funds!

Posted: 6/28/2004 6:55:32 PM EDT

[#13]

DRAGNET : I say AMEN brother!!!!! I'm thinkin the same thing. Can't wait to get the new m-4.

Posted: 8/3/2004 10:50:36 AM EDT

[#14]

In order to determine the status of the law, once the ban expires, the specific language relating to the "expiration" are important.

-----------------------------------------------
The ACT

Public Law 103-322 (HB 3355, 103rd Congress), Title XI, Subtitle A. Assault Weapons.

SEC. 110102. RESTRICTION ON MANUFACTURE, TRANSFER, AND POSSESSION OF CERTAIN SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.
-- amends 18 USC 922 to add "assault weapons" to the list restricted/illegal weapons

SEC. 110103. BAN OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.
-- amends 18 USC 922 to prohibit "large capacity ammunition feeding devices."

SEC. 110105. EFFECTIVE DATE.

This subtitle and the amendments made by this subtitle--

(1) shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act; and

(2) are repealed effective as of the date that is 10 years after that date.

The President signed the Bill on September 13, 1994.

Full bill text and history:
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d103:h.r.03355:

-----------------------------
Codified Rules of Statutory Construction Relating to Repealers

1 USC Section 108. Repeal of repealing act
Whenever an Act is repealed, which repealed a former Act, such
former Act shall not thereby be revived, unless it shall be
expressly so provided.

1 USC Section 109. Repeal of statutes as affecting existing liabilities
The repeal of any statute shall not have the effect to release or
extinguish any penalty, forfeiture, or liability incurred under
such statute, unless the repealing Act shall so expressly provide,
and such statute shall be treated as still remaining in force for
the purpose of sustaining any proper action or prosecution for the
enforcement of such penalty, forfeiture, or liability. The
expiration of a temporary statute shall not have the effect to
release or extinguish any penalty, forfeiture, or liability
incurred under such statute, unless the temporary statute shall so
expressly provide, and such statute shall be treated as still
remaining in force for the purpose of sustaining any proper action
or prosecution for the enforcement of such penalty, forfeiture, or
liability.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks to me like on September 14th (just to be sure), the Ban disappears as if it never existed -- except for those unfortunate souls who get caught violating the ban before it dies its natural death.

Wolf

Posted: 8/3/2004 5:01:05 PM EDT

[#15]

Isn't that legal doubletalk just incredible?

They couldn't just phrase it like this:

If a statute is repealed or expires, any actions committed that violated that statute when
it was still in effect will still carry its legal penalties regardless of the expiration or repeal
of that statute, unless the conditions under which the statute is repealed or expires specifically
state that the penalties for past violations are reduced or eliminated, and in what manner
they are to be reduced or eliminated.

It shall be no violation to commit an act that would violate a statute if that statute has
expired or been repealed as of the time of the violation.

That's how they should write laws...so regular human beings can understand them!

CJ

Posted: 8/5/2004 6:37:52 PM EDT

[#16]

Now with all the legal experts on this string, What is up with all the FN FAL kits for sale. Can you put together an STG 58 with US parts and a reciever bought from any of the hundreds of places in Shotgun News. What is the US parts count, I understand it cant be full auto but is semi kosher. I just dont want to step on my KRANK.

Posted: 8/6/2004 5:52:50 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Now with all the legal experts on this string, What is up with all the FN FAL kits for sale. Can you put together an STG 58 with US parts and a reciever bought from any of the hundreds of places in Shotgun News. What is the US parts count, I understand it cant be full auto but is semi kosher. I just dont want to step on my KRANK.

Don't know anything about them and wouldn't venture to guess on the parts issue. You might try the Legal Fourm.

Wolf

Posted: 8/6/2004 10:10:50 AM EDT

[#18]

Some of you guys are having a hard time understanding just what kind of criminals we are dealing with here. These guys make stuff up as they go along.

Posted: 8/7/2004 8:04:40 PM EDT

[#19]

Ok, here's a stupid question. Has anyone picked up a phone and called the ATF to get any answers from the horses mouth?

Posted: 8/8/2004 12:17:56 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Ok, here's a stupid question. Has anyone picked up a phone and called the ATF to get any answers from the horses mouth?

If you call the ATF and talk to 10 different people you'll get 10 different answers.

Posted: 8/8/2004 12:58:30 PM EDT

[#21]

Does that mean you have called them on this issue and got different input from different agents? Or is that the excuse for not calling....

Posted: 8/8/2004 3:12:23 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Does that mean you have called them on this issue and got different input from different agents? Or is that the excuse for not calling....

You wouldn't ask an agent- they'd say call the tech branch.

Posted: 8/13/2004 4:28:33 PM EDT

[#23]

Walt Kuleck (Fulton Armory) posted this in another forum, which validates the interpretation of "sunsetting" as "it never happenned".

FYI, from the latest issue of Firearms Business

“Assault Weapon” Ban Expiration

"The likely consequences for industry of the expiration of the 1994 ban on so-called “assault weapons” were detailed by Teresa Ficaretta, ATF associate chief counsel, explosives, firearms & arson. If the law sunsets on September 13th, ATF would most likely issue an open letter to the industry advising that the restrictions on post-ban over ten-round law enforcement magazines as well as those for receivers of those firearms presently designated under federal law as so-called ‘assault weapons’ would “become meaningless,” Ficaretta said. The result would be that such magazines “could be freely sold.”

"Ficaretta cautioned however that the restrictions in federal law on the importation of firearms designated as “semiautomatic asssault weapons” would remain in place after September 13th as these restrictions are contained in a different section of federal law that will not expire."

Posted: 8/17/2004 8:30:52 PM EDT

[#24]

I dont really care about the imports i just want my american made Autos. And of course my ext cap mags

Posted: 8/23/2004 3:33:01 PM EDT

[#25]

I suppose there are going to be arguments here about wether or not we should comply with 18 USC section 922(v) even after it is not longer on the books? Never would have guessed that, gee, that is weird.

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:12:36 PM EDT

[#26]

God I hope not.

Posted: 8/24/2004 12:55:02 PM EDT

[#27]

when you call the atf to get the answer from "the horses mouth " you actually get it from the horses ass. if you need info send them a letter. they will send you the answer on letter head. that is about as positive answer as you can get.

Posted: 8/26/2004 7:30:38 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I suppose there are going to be arguments here about wether or not we should comply with 18 USC section 922(v) even after it is not longer on the books? Never would have guessed that, gee, that is weird.

No.

Posted: 9/3/2004 2:34:13 PM EDT

[#29]

if you need info send them a letter.

that would be funny, everybody send a letter asking if the specific rifle they own is legal after the AWB expires. 57,000 some letters.

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:49:41 AM EDT

[#30]

These were posted on www.atf.gov on September 13, 2004, and might answer most questions. Good to download a copy

Open letter to FFL Importers www.atf.gov/firearms/091304openletter.htm
Semi-auto Weapons Ban Q & A www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-faqs.htm
Changes in Federal Law As Of September 13, 2004 Relating to Semiautomatic Assault Weapons (SAWs) and Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices (LCAFDs) www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-factsheet.htm

Edited to fix URL's

Posted: 9/13/2004 10:44:02 AM EDT

[#31]

I'm glad Thats finally officially over!

mike
Off get up an upper, Isn't it wonderful when a friend w/o any guns has one, and wants you to have it.

Posted: 9/13/2004 2:02:34 PM EDT

[#32]

Gotta love the government! They would never come out and say "Yes, you can now thread the barrel and put a flash hider on" ... but, I think this clip from their Q&A sums it up:

Q: What provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) besides the bans contained in sections 922(v) and (w) are no longer effective?

The penalty provision for violating 922(v), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 924(a)(1)(B).

Time to thread the barrel of my A3 Bushmaster!

Posted: 9/14/2004 11:26:10 AM EDT

[#33]

With the law gone and capabilities of being able to modify your post-ban weapon into a "pre-ban" era, what would happen if something as this ban were to come back??? Would your new modifications be considered "pre-ban"???

Posted: 9/14/2004 2:02:16 PM EDT

[#34]

Just as the previous ban, it would be effective as of a certain date. Since new weapons no longer require serialization and LEO designations, there would be no way to track a weapon and therefore it cannot be "grandfathered" properly since people will be switching prior post-ban weapons to pre-ban status. Basically, the law would be treated the same as was the first time it passed ... weapons manufactured after xxx date must not contain xxx ...

Posted: 9/15/2004 3:51:22 PM EDT

[#35]

I believe post-ban firearms have just become ugly stepchilds next to their full trim successors, I seriously hope we dont ever get a 10 year dark age in my lifetime. I think the price of postbans should drop to next to nothing given the fact that the demand now is strictly for ban free guns with all the goodies.

Posted: 9/16/2004 9:59:18 PM EDT

[#36]

Directly from the ATF...

CHANGES IN FEDERAL LAW AS OF SEPTEMBER 13, 2004
RELATING TO
SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS (SAWs)

AND

LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES (LCAFDs)

The rest of the release can be viewed on their site at: www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-factsheet.htm

This is the official word on the sunset of the ban.

c0

Posted: 9/18/2004 9:53:42 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Just as the previous ban, it would be effective as of a certain date. Since new weapons no longer require serialization and LEO designations, there would be no way to track a weapon and therefore it cannot be "grandfathered" properly since people will be switching prior post-ban weapons to pre-ban status. Basically, the law would be treated the same as was the first time it passed ... weapons manufactured after xxx date must not contain xxx ...

So you're saying I could purchase 3 serial numbered lowers next week, to be later (1 year) completed into fully assembled rifles with preban features, and still maintain a "grandfathered" status if another ban should pass? Or do they have to be purchased as completed guns with features to maintain grandfather eligibility?

Posted: 9/18/2004 9:57:48 PM EDT

[#38]

They can be purchased stripped, but must be assembled as banned weapons to be grandfathered.

Posted: 9/19/2004 11:25:54 AM EDT

[#39]

Ive got a feeling the next time this ban comes around it will be illegal to have any of those options on any firearm, period. Thats going to make a lot of felons out of law abiding citizens nationwide. As for me Im going to stock up on everything I can get my hands on while I can.

Posted: 9/21/2004 8:23:23 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
They can be purchased stripped, but must be assembled as banned weapons to be grandfathered.

So I would have to complete them before a new ban becomes effective. What would be my "proof" that the weapons were assembled and completed before any new ban to be grandfathered?

Posted: 9/22/2004 5:14:46 AM EDT

[#41]

Trying to figure out how to grandfather a firearm in compliance with a nonexistent phantom law is pure speculation. There is no way to know how it is worded, or if it would even have a grandfather clause. Fact is there will be no new restrictive gun laws with the existing House leadership and House composition.

Posted: 9/22/2004 2:05:43 PM EDT

[#42]

You guys worried about the grandfather clause are missing the whole point. THERE IS NO LAW TO BE GRANDFATHERED WITH! The law is OFF THE BOOKS!!!!

What you do with your SAW is your business as long as it meets today's law if today is the date you want to modify it! You can do whatever you want as long as it is legal in the present tense.

IF (God help us) we ever encounter another ban, it would be effective as of suh and such a date. You cannot be afraid of not being grandfathered of a non-existent law!

Have fun! Thread, bayo lug and hi-cap til your heart's content ... I know I will!

Posted: 9/22/2004 2:13:11 PM EDT

[#43]

LET IT GO PEOPLE!!!!

Posted: 9/22/2004 4:31:12 PM EDT

[#44]

I got to work on my main rifle today! It had a barrel that had had the threads turned off it to be compliant with the ban. I threaded the turned area to a standard thread size, made a steel filler that was internally tapped to the same thread, loctited and torqued it on, and then machined that down to standard 1/2-28 threads. I'll install the A2 flash hider tomorrow after installing my new sight tower with bayonet lug.

Tomorrow, I'll have a genuine assault rifle! Choke on this dick, Feinstein!

CJ

Posted: 9/23/2004 8:12:27 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
LET IT GO PEOPLE!!!!

Seriously ... have you ever considered Prozac? hinking.gif

Posted: 9/23/2004 8:40:31 AM EDT

[#46]

If we do our jobs right, stay alert, and keep our congresscritters on their toes, we'll never have to deal with something like this again.

The antis have already tried to get a more invasive ban passed, and it went nowhere, quickly.

CJ

Posted: 10/12/2004 4:08:38 PM EDT

[#47]

does the sunset on awb include background checks and waiting periods?

Posted: 10/12/2004 4:15:46 PM EDT

[#48]

NO! You still must have a background check and do the wait. As much as I hate gun laws, at least the background check is somewhat useful. No, street thugs don't get their guns at Bob's Gun Supply but for those that try ... at least this will catch them first.

The only thing that is now gone is the whole 3 "evil" SAW characteristics per assualt rifle allowed. All other laws apply.