Pistol AR15 legal question about OAL

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pistol AR15 legal question about OAL

Posted: 7/12/2017 11:06:14 AM EDT

A pistol by ATF standards is less than 26 inches. An AR15 lower with brace is about 19 inches. So how can u put a 10inch upper on a lower w sig or blade brace and consider it a pistol when it's OAL is over 26 inches?

Posted: 7/11/2017 2:26:35 PM EDT

[#1]

Even with it over 26'' in length, it still is considered a pistol (Just a very large one). It isn't until you add an item on it that changes its classification does it become a "firearm". Put a vertical foregrip on a 26"+ pistol and it becomes a firearm, take it off and it's a pistol/handgun.

Posted: 7/11/2017 2:59:51 PM EDT

[#2]

What Zerlak said, at least according to federal law. Some states may have a different, stricter definition of a pistol, though - so check your state laws as well.

Posted: 7/11/2017 3:34:59 PM EDT

[#3]

The only difference is with non-pistols. For example, the new Mossberg Shockwaves have to be at least 26" long to be considered a "firearm" and if it gets to be any less than that, it would be an SBS. But a pistol can be as short as you want, or as long as you want with a brace and it is still good to go.

Posted: 7/11/2017 3:48:51 PM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted:
The only difference is with non-pistols. For example, the new Mossberg Shockwaves have to be at least 26" long to be considered a "firearm" and if it gets to be any less than that, it would be an SBS. But a pistol can be as short as you want, or as long as you want with a brace and it is still good to go.

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I actually believe the Mossberg Shockwave would be considered an AOW, if the receiver was virgin and never had a stock attached to it, if you reduced it under the 26" mark.

ETA: Still talking from a federal level, state definitions are different and all state laws should be checked.

Posted: 7/11/2017 6:09:18 PM EDT

[#5]

This is a stripped AR15 receiver never built. I put a KAK Blade Brace on it. Then a 7.5 inch Adams Arms piston upper on it.

Posted: 7/11/2017 6:13:33 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is a stripped AR15 receiver never built. I put a KAK Blade Brace on it. Then a 7.5 inch Adams Arms piston upper on it.

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You've made an AR Pistol.

ETA: Your OAL will be no where near the 26'' required, to install a vertical foregrip on this. If you were to install one, you'd be making an AOW.

Posted: 7/11/2017 6:38:50 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
You've made an AR Pistol.

ETA: Your OAL will be no where near the 26'' required, to install a vertical foregrip on this. If you were to install one, you'd be making an AOW.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a stripped AR15 receiver never built. I put a KAK Blade Brace on it. Then a 7.5 inch Adams Arms piston upper on it.

You've made an AR Pistol.

ETA: Your OAL will be no where near the 26'' required, to install a vertical foregrip on this. If you were to install one, you'd be making an AOW.

I want to make another w 10 inch upper

Posted: 7/11/2017 6:53:02 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
I want to make another w 10 inch upper

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Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a stripped AR15 receiver never built. I put a KAK Blade Brace on it. Then a 7.5 inch Adams Arms piston upper on it.

You've made an AR Pistol.

ETA: Your OAL will be no where near the 26'' required, to install a vertical foregrip on this. If you were to install one, you'd be making an AOW.

I want to make another w 10 inch upper

Even with a 10" barrel, you should still be too short to attach a vertical foregrip for "Firearm" status. From what I've read/understand the brace itself does not get factored into your OAL as it isn't considered a "stock" per the ATF. It's from the end of your receiver extension (KAK Tube) to the end of the threads of your upper (Assuming you don't pin/weld your muzzle device).

Posted: 7/11/2017 7:42:55 PM EDT

[#9]

18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(29) and 27 CFR § 478.11

The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:

a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s);

and a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

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No mention of length in the federal definition of a pistol.

Posted: 7/11/2017 9:29:50 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:

Even with a 10" barrel, you should still be too short to attach a vertical foregrip for "Firearm" status. From what I've read/understand the brace itself does not get factored into your OAL as it isn't considered a "stock" per the ATF. It's from the end of your receiver extension (KAK Tube) to the end of the threads of your upper (Assuming you don't pin/weld your muzzle device).

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Not necessarily. I believe a kak supertine buffer gets you over 26 inches. Then you can put a vfg on.

Posted: 7/11/2017 10:06:44 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
You've made an AR Pistol.

ETA: Your OAL will be no where near the 26'' required, to install a vertical foregrip on this. If you were to install one, you'd be making an AOW.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a stripped AR15 receiver never built. I put a KAK Blade Brace on it. Then a 7.5 inch Adams Arms piston upper on it.

You've made an AR Pistol.

ETA: Your OAL will be no where near the 26'' required, to install a vertical foregrip on this. If you were to install one, you'd be making an AOW.

I don't even use verticle fg on my regular rifles so I wouldn't want it on my ar pistol. But that is a good point.

My understanding is that u add 19 inches to the barrel length to get the OAL. 19 +10 inch barrel would put me at 29 inches which is over the pistol length of 26.

I measured my KAK blade with 7.5 upper and it was about 24 inches w the stock fully closed and pinned including the flash hider. I like the blade out about an inch and a half out

I guess if the blade isn't considered in the length of the weapon it won't matter

Posted: 7/11/2017 10:17:57 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:

I don't even use verticle fg on my regular rifles so I wouldn't want it on my ar pistol. But that is a good point.

My understanding is that u add 19 inches to the barrel length to get the OAL. 19 +10 inch barrel would put me at 29 inches which is over the pistol length of 26.

I measured my KAK blade with 7.5 upper and it was about 24 inches w the stock fully closed and pinned including the flash hider. I like the blade out about an inch and a half out

I guess if the blade isn't considered in the length of the weapon it won't matter

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The blade doesn't count for length neither does the muzzle device unless it's pinned and welded.

Posted: 7/11/2017 10:21:13 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don't even use verticle fg on my regular rifles so I wouldn't want it on my ar pistol. But that is a good point.

My understanding is that u add 19 inches to the barrel length to get the OAL. 19 +10 inch barrel would put me at 29 inches which is over the pistol length of 26.

I measured my KAK blade with 7.5 upper and it was about 24 inches w the stock fully closed and pinned including the flash hider. I like the blade out about an inch and a half out

I guess if the blade isn't considered in the length of the weapon it won't matter

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a stripped AR15 receiver never built. I put a KAK Blade Brace on it. Then a 7.5 inch Adams Arms piston upper on it.

You've made an AR Pistol.

ETA: Your OAL will be no where near the 26'' required, to install a vertical foregrip on this. If you were to install one, you'd be making an AOW.

I don't even use verticle fg on my regular rifles so I wouldn't want it on my ar pistol. But that is a good point.

My understanding is that u add 19 inches to the barrel length to get the OAL. 19 +10 inch barrel would put me at 29 inches which is over the pistol length of 26.

I measured my KAK blade with 7.5 upper and it was about 24 inches w the stock fully closed and pinned including the flash hider. I like the blade out about an inch and a half out

I guess if the blade isn't considered in the length of the weapon it won't matter

Ah, so your state defines it as requiring it to be under 26''

"(f) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 26 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm."

If you're wanting to go with a longer barrel, I'd suggest getting yourself a shorter receiver extension. The KAK setups add a bit of length and there are those out there that make tubes that are even shorter than the standard length carbine tubes.

ETA: ~~Looking at the law, it actually doesn't appear to state what happens when a pistol has a longer OAL than 26", have you consulted with a firearm attorney in your state to figure that out?~~ Nevermind, looked online and it seems people unanimously agree they are treated as rifles.

Posted: 7/11/2017 10:25:51 PM EDT

[#14]

Nevermind

Posted: 7/12/2017 8:18:27 AM EDT

[#15]

You are correct. I believe Michigan classifies pistols as being less than 26 inches. So for my AR 15 pistol it needs to be less than 26 inches

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pistol AR15 legal question about OAL

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