Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 10/7/2016 12:23:58 PM EDT
So I have a  Bushmaster AR-15 Varminter A3 Upper with a 24" fluted barrel, and someone wants to buy it from CT. Is there any reason why selling this person the upper and shipping it there would be a bad idea? It has no threaded barrell, and I understand that you can generally ship uppers yourself.

any input appreciated!
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 12:26:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Knowing the laws that the buyer has to abide by isn't your responsibility.

That said, any upper is legal anywhere in the U.S.
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 12:35:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Knowing the laws that the buyer has to abide by isn't your responsibility.

That said, any upper is legal anywhere in the U.S.
View Quote


Yep. If I ship you something that isn't legal in your neck of the woods, that's on you.
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 1:58:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Knowing the laws that the buyer has to abide by isn't your responsibility.

There is a reason why internet retailers will not ship some firearm related items to certain cities, counties, states.



That said, any upper is legal anywhere in the U.S.
Not exactly.
It's well known that flash hiders and bayonet lugs are prohibited as evil features in California.
Own a Cali legal AR and an additional upper with prohibited features is constructive possession of an illegal firearm.



View Quote

Link Posted: 10/7/2016 2:12:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Knowing the laws that the buyer has to abide by isn't your responsibility.

There is a reason why internet retailers will not ship some firearm related items to certain cities, counties, states.



That said, any upper is legal anywhere in the U.S.
Not exactly.
It's well known that flash hiders and bayonet lugs are prohibited as evil features in California.
Own a Cali legal AR and an additional upper with prohibited features is constructive possession of an illegal firearm.




No, exactly.  An upper is just an upper.  And there is no such thing as an assault uppers ban in any state.  It's up to the person in the ban state to comply with his states laws when assembling or possessing that upper with a lower.  There is no such thing as an illegal upper.   Excepting the 8mm beltfed that ATF deemed a machine gun.
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 6:10:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No, exactly.  An upper is just an upper.  And there is no such thing as an assault uppers ban in any state.  It's up to the person in the ban state to comply with his states laws when assembling or possessing that upper with a lower.  There is no such thing as an illegal upper.   Excepting the 8mm beltfed that ATF deemed a machine gun.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Knowing the laws that the buyer has to abide by isn't your responsibility.

There is a reason why internet retailers will not ship some firearm related items to certain cities, counties, states.



That said, any upper is legal anywhere in the U.S.
Not exactly.
It's well known that flash hiders and bayonet lugs are prohibited as evil features in California.
Own a Cali legal AR and an additional upper with prohibited features is constructive possession of an illegal firearm.




No, exactly.  An upper is just an upper.  And there is no such thing as an assault uppers ban in any state.  It's up to the person in the ban state to comply with his states laws when assembling or possessing that upper with a lower.  There is no such thing as an illegal upper.   Excepting the 8mm beltfed that ATF deemed a machine gun.

No, not exactly.
If you live in California and have a Cali legal AR and you have an additional upper with prohibited features you have constructive possession of an illegal firearm.
It is the same legal construct as having a 7.5" barreled upper and no other AR in your possession than your 16" barreled AR.......that's constructive possession of an SBR.

While the upper isn't a firearm under Federal law, possessing an upper with prohibited features AND possessing a compliant AR means you are in violation of California law.

Link Posted: 10/7/2016 6:32:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
So I have a  Bushmaster AR-15 Varminter A3 Upper with a 24" fluted barrel, and someone wants to buy it from CT. Is there any reason why selling this person the upper and shipping it there would be a bad idea? It has no threaded barrell, and I understand that you can generally ship uppers yourself.

any input appreciated!
View Quote


Hey "SickSig15".  I want to reply to your post, but I need some time to search & give a thorough answer, so I'll post here soon.  A few questions in the meantime...

- Do you know what year your upper was made?  (original paperwork might say)
- Is the muzzle threaded in any way?
- Does the barrel have any sort of muzzle device attached (threaded or permanent)?
- Does the upper contain the bolt carrier, bolt, and/or charging handle?
- Does the upper have a bayonet lug?
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 6:39:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:

No, not exactly.
If you live in California and have a Cali legal AR and you have an additional upper with prohibited features you have constructive possession of an illegal firearm.
It is the same legal construct as having a 7.5" barreled upper and no other AR in your possession than your 16" barreled AR.......that's constructive possession of an SBR.

While the upper isn't a firearm under Federal law, possessing an upper with prohibited features AND possessing a compliant AR means you are in violation of California law.
View Quote

and that isn't the seller's problem because he's selling an upper by itself.  It's not his responsibly to make sure the buyer doesn't have the ability to assemble it in an illegal configuration in the buyer's state.  The upper by itself, which is what's being sold, is legal in all 50 states regardless of configuration.  But regardless, an unthreaded 24" bull barrel is completely featureless and legal in all states even when combined with a lower as long as said lower is also legal in that state.
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 10:26:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Ok, "SickSig15", irrespective of my questions I asked above and in the interest of saving time, I found the following (bear with me).....

Generally, the ATF does not consider the AR-15 upper to be a firearm, because only the serialized portion of an action or firearm, etc. is legally considered a firearm.  Thus, the AR-15 upper by itself is legally considered simply a "firearm part" and can usually be shipped from a company, dealer, or individual directly to the front door of any other company, dealer, or individual without need for an FFL dealer transfer (but not including short barreled rifle uppers under 16 inches, because that's a different topic that may have it's own rules under the National Firearms Act; nevertheless that doesn't apply here).  However, the ATF has stated they regulate firearms nationally at the Federal level, and the ATF normally defers to local State laws whenever those laws are more restrictive than U.S. national law.

With the above in mind, now we look at Connecticut's specific laws concerning what they consider "assault weapons" in light of their 2013 gun control law, and specifically in this case the AR-15 and its parts.

First up, we have this...

GENERAL STATUTES OF CONNECTICUT:
Volume 13
Title 53: Crimes
Chapter 943: Offenses Against Public Peace And Safety


"Sec. 53-202b. Sale or transfer of assault weapon prohibited. (a)(1) Any person who, within this state, distributes, transports or imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives any assault weapon, except as provided by sections 53-202a to 53-202k, inclusive, shall be guilty of a class C felony and shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of which two years may not be suspended or reduced by the court."
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 10:27:57 PM EDT
[#9]
^ I underlined the wording above that seems to apply.  So, it's fairly clear that nobody within CT is allowed to accept an assault weapon shipment.  But the above clause begs the further questions... What's considered an "assault weapon"?  And, what are the exceptions as provided by sections 53-202a to 53-202k?  Well, sections 53-202a to 53-202k is essentially the entire language of the "assault weapon ban" law which is extremely lengthy, but to summarize it says that transfer of assault weapons may only be done by FFL's, Gunsmiths, Manufacturers, LEO's, and CT State Officials & Departments.  So we answered the second question, but how about the first which is, What does CT consider an "assault weapon"?  For that we need to look at.....

Volume 13
Title 53: Crimes
Chapter 943: Offenses Against Public Peace And Safety


"Sec. 53-202a. Assault weapons: Definitions.
(1) “Assault weapon” means:
(B) Any of the following specified semiautomatic centerfire rifles, or copies or duplicates thereof with the capability of any such rifles, that were in production prior to or on April 4, 2013:  ...(xx) AR-15; (xxi) Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster XM15, Bushmaster ACR Rifles, Bushmaster MOE Rifles; ..."


^ So the above clause includes the "AR-15" and also a few Bushmaster models.  But we could easily say your Bushmaster Varmint A3 fluted barrel upper is not listed.  Bad news is, the CT law goes on to say the following is also considered an "assault weapon".....
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 10:29:05 PM EDT
[#10]
"(E) Any semiautomatic firearm regardless of whether such firearm is listed in subparagraphs (A) to (D), inclusive, of this subdivision, and regardless of the date such firearm was produced, that meets the following criteria:

(III) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to fire the firearm without being burned,

(F) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in any provision of subparagraphs (B) to (E), inclusive, of this subdivision, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in any provision of subparagraphs (B) to (E), inclusive, of this subdivision, may be assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;

(3) “Action of the weapon” means the part of the firearm that loads, fires and ejects a cartridge, which part includes, but is not limited to, the upper and lower receiver, charging handle, forward assist, magazine release and shell deflector;"


^ Unfortunately, the above clause "(E)" includes any semiautomatic firearm whether it's listed in section "(B)" or not; and which includes the feature in section "(III)" which described any handguard.  Next, it adds section "(F)" which says any part of a firearm which is "designed or intended" to convert or assemble the firearm into what CT considers an "assault weapon" (which includes the AR-15, and that's what your upper assembly would in fact do).  Because obviously an AR Upper is meant to assemble with a lower, thus convert it into an "assault weapon" according to CT law.  Finally, we see section "(3)" which says the action of a weapon is also considered a feature of an "assult weapon" within this context, and it includes any parts that load, fire, and eject cartridges, also including the upper & lower receiver, charging handle, forward assist, shell deflector, etc.
Link Posted: 10/7/2016 10:29:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Last but certainly not least, we see the following language which seems to prohibit the transfer of "assault weapons" by anybody into the State of Connecticut.

Volume 13
Title 53: Crimes
Chapter 943: Offenses Against Public Peace And Safety


"Sec. 53-202d. Certificate of possession of assault weapon.
Certificate of transfer of assault weapon to gun dealer.

(b)(2) No assault weapon, as defined in any provision of subparagraphs (B) to (F), inclusive, of subdivision (1) of section 53-202a, possessed pursuant to a certificate of possession issued under this section may be sold or transferred on or after April 5, 2013, to any person within this state other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subsection (f) of section 53-202f, or as provided in section 53-202e, ..."


^ It seems that nearly any portion of an AR-15 (including it's upper assembly) is considered by Connecticut to be a banned assault weapon under their 2013 law.  It seems it's illegal for any CT resident to import an AR Upper, and it seems it's illegal for anybody, whether a CT resident or out-of-state resident, to either ship or receive an AR upper into or out of Connecticut.

It seems the safest choice may probably be Not to sell any AR-15 parts to any Connecticut resident.  But I would advise you only to speak to a licensed attorney in your own State if you truly need to know the law and how it applies to your actual and specific case.  And I would advise you to speak with your attorney before you make any decision to sell to Connecticut.  

Hope this helps; apologies for the long winded response.

Links:
https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/titles.htm
https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/title_53.htm
https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap_943.htm
http://www.ct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?Q=572330&A=2341
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?a=4213&q=494618
http://ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?a=4213&Q=530224&desppNav_GID=2080
Link Posted: 10/8/2016 3:00:07 AM EDT
[#12]
What if you were making a British style bolt action rifle? Would it be an assault weapon if it were attached to This? How would an upper be an assault weapon by itself since it could be assembled into anything including a single shot firearm or a lamp? I could see constructive possession by the person in CT, but the seller has no way to know a legal item wasn't to be used for a lawful purpose.
Link Posted: 10/8/2016 4:49:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Attorneys are expensive.


Even if you turn out to be correct.
Link Posted: 11/21/2016 7:58:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Non threaded barrel, fluted barrels are not considered "evil" anywhere, yet.
There might be an issue if the barrel had a flash hider or was threaded for one,
Link Posted: 11/21/2016 8:14:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Answering even a specious charge made by a State's Attorney in Federal Court is not a low cost thing.

Hope you have a lot of cash lying around.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top