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Posted: 5/12/2016 4:38:47 PM EDT
I'm trying to figure out if my trust can purchase a suppressor. The way I understand it, it is the trust purchasing the suppressor. And when checking out from an online store (let's say silencer shop) I enter the trusts info. And it's the trusts info that goes on the form 4, not mine. And when it comes in, a trustee over the age of 21 can fill out the 4473 for it.
Anyone heard of a similar situation?
Link Posted: 5/12/2016 4:46:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Yep.  Provided a trustee is an in-state resident and over 21.
Link Posted: 6/12/2016 11:20:02 PM EDT
[#2]
This begs another question.  I hope the OP doesn't mind if I jump in here because this is very pertinent to his situation.

What if he files a Form 1 in the trust's name and builds a suppressor?  I'm curious about that because my son is underage as well.
Link Posted: 6/13/2016 12:19:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Is he an "underage adult" - meaning 18-20 years of age?  Or a true minor (<18yrs).

For the underage adult, no problem - F1 is fine for 18-20 to build or possess as a trustee.

If an actual minor, then depends on state law, but generally prohibited these days in most states.
Link Posted: 6/13/2016 1:01:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is he an "underage adult" - meaning 18-20 years of age?  Or a true minor (<18yrs).

For the underage adult, no problem - F1 is fine for 18-20 to build or possess as a trustee.

If an actual minor, then depends on state law, but generally prohibited these days in most states.
View Quote


Thanks very much for your input on this.

He's actually 19, too young to drink, too old to date HS girls.  It's a rough transition time for a guy.  

That's interesting how there seems to be a different age standard for the F1 versus purchasing.  I imagine, next month when that EO becomes effective regarding background checks on trustees, that might toss a wrench in the age issue.  I'd like to read more about it.  I'll look at the ATF site for more info, but do you happen to have a link?  Or some good search terms?
Link Posted: 6/13/2016 1:07:57 AM EDT
[#5]
IMO.. This is as grey as you can get. Could not buy on his own and Trust entity is providing access to someone otherwise Prohibited at the Federal level from acquisition and legal transfer that is the same person. You are knowingly subverting Federal Law.
Technically it should work if someone over 21 does the transfer but to me it is a clear violation of the intent of current law as the grantor of the Trust is underage for a legal transfer. you may run into an issue if the ATF happens to notice.
On the other hand ...
The dealer is only going to see an approved tax stamp and someone filling out a 4473 that is over 21.  I would think it is a 50/50 that anyone at ATF catches the age of the person listed on the trust.
I do not personally give a rats backside but You don't have to worry about me though..?
Best wishes.
Link Posted: 6/13/2016 1:22:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
IMO.. This is as grey as you can get. Could not buy on his own and Trust entity is providing access to someone otherwise Prohibited at the Federal level from acquisition and legal transfer that is the same person. You are knowingly subverting Federal Law.
Technically it should work if someone over 21 does the transfer but to me it is a clear violation of the intent of current law as the grantor of the Trust is underage for a legal transfer. you may run into an issue if the ATF happens to notice.
On the other hand ...
The dealer is only going to see an approved tax stamp and someone filling out a 4473 that is over 21.  I would think it is a 50/50 that anyone at ATF catches the age of the person listed on the trust.
I do not personally give a rats backside but You don't have to worry about me though..?
Best wishes.
View Quote


I understand your point regarding the federal prohibition regarding age.  Honestly, this is completely hypothetical based on some ideas that came to my mind a while back when the EO regarding a need for background checks for trust holders was announced.  My son doesn't actually have an interest in building a suppressor, he doesn't even own a firearm it would be appropriate for, nor is he even listed on the corporate docs.  But more to the point of the remainder of your post: because this is a Form 1 (manufacture), and no transfer would be performed, there would be no dealer involved, nor would there be a 4473.  There's not even a listing of ages on the corporate documents.  

It seems to me that there's a good chance this particular situation is not addressed in the law.  I can't find reference to it anyway.  However, since a silencer is legally a firearm, then there might be state law to contend with.  Although state laws usually specify age requirements secondary to the firearm type.   It's unlikely that a suppressor is listed in the state law with an age requirement.

I enjoy hypothetical scenarios like this.  Researching my way through them teaches me a lot.
Link Posted: 6/13/2016 3:42:28 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
providing access to someone otherwise Prohibited at the Federal level from acquisition and legal transfer
View Quote

This is incorrect.  There is no prohibition against a person 18-20 having access to anything under federal law.  The governing regulation is a prohibition against FFL holders transferring to those persons.  They're not prohibited persons, just a hinky regulation getting in the way of anything other than private in-state transactions.

To reiterate.  There is NO FEDERAL PROHIBITION on handguns or NFA for 18-20 year olds - just a restriction on transfers from licensed dealers.  If congress wants to make the federal laws match the restrictions on dealers, we'll burn that bridge when we get to it.
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 6:38:59 PM EDT
[#8]
The qctual wording iof the Federal law is also importants.

It initially says NO person under 21 can rec eive a gun from an FFL.
It the makes an EXCEPTION for long guns.
A rifle or shotgun designed to be fired from the shoulder.

No actions, no pistol grip only shotguns (at time of sale), etc.
No 'other.'

Shoulder fired long guns ONLY to a person under 21 but over 18.


And then you have to deal with state and local laws.


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