I was just watching Dateline and saw footage of a guy who went from literally being interviewed by LE with a "Let's see if this guy saw anything" mentality to making a full blown confession to double murder within 4 hours of chit chatting with detectives.

Now this guy hacked up a former OEF vet into pieces and scattered his remains in the city park, and shot and killed his girlfriend to try and cover it up so I'm very happy he confessed and got the death penalty saving everyone a shitload of time.

But it got me thinking if he shut his mouth he would probably still be free, or would he? How do you ask for a lawyer at the outset without appearing guilty? LE shows up with their notepad and starts asking questions. Do you answer anything? One the one hand, if I'm not a suspect and they want help solving a crime of course I want to help. On the other, I don't want to turn myself into a suspect by saying the wrong things. Seems like they can pretty much take anything you say out of context or make you a liar out of it. "I didn't see anything", but after they mention it you do remember seeing a guy walking a dog down the street. Now you're a liar.

Anyway, I specifically asked in here and not GD to avoid the crazy anti-LEO talk. Not trying to stir anything up, just facilitate an educated discussion on how an average joe should talk to LE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

This



 

It really doesn't matter if you appear guilty. Just tell them you would feel more comfortable with a lawyer present. They can't use that against you. Sure it might raise their suspicions, but 9 times out of 10, if they are visiting you and it's not apparent you are a witness, they already suspect you anyways. Most times they just don't show up at the killers door by accident.

This reminds me of an old joke.


Q. What's the difference between a suspect and a person of interest?




A. Absolutely nothing.




Keep this in mind when cops start asking questions.


 

Actually it is worse than "Absolutely nothing". Suspects have legal rights POIs do not have. Hence they never use the term anymore before arrest.

... wasn't there some SCoTUS decision recently that you had to explicitly invoke your 5th/6th amendment rights, otherwise absent a Miranda Warning your silence could be held against you?

Are you referring to Salinas v. Texas?
http://www.scotusblog.com/2013/06/opinion-recap-if-you-want-to-claim-the-fifth/

No argument here. I usually hear newscasters saying person of interest. My brain always converts it to suspect.

 

A POI does have the right to remain silent it they invoke it and they do have the right to walk away any time. But most people don't.

AM I BEING DETAINED!!!!?????!!!!

Yuan
Too
Tree
Fo

FIF!

I was going to a call of loud music on a county road a few days ago. Start rolling up and see a woman laying in the middle of the road and a man hunched over her. I ask what happened and the man says, "he ran over her" pointing towards a vehicle 50 yards away also in the middle of the road. Long story short, woman and her husband said one thing, the man in the car said another. The man in the car eventually told us to check texts on his phone and speak to his 14 yo daughter. After doing as requested, it didn't necessarily prove his side of the story, though it cast doubt on the other party. Statements and a report were made, though no arrests.

If the man had said, "fuck off talk to my lawyer" he would have at the very least spent the night in jail. He would have gotten his vehicle impounded and had to spend thousands in court costs and attorney fees and even then may not have won in court depending on how it played out.

Things like this have happened numerous times in my career. Bottom line is if you are guilty, the odds are you know your guilty. If you are guilty then its very likely smart not to talk to the police. However, if you are not guilty and LE only get one side of the story because you want to be an arfcom hero, then LE can only go off what they know at the time which may not be in your favor and without proof of your innocence, you may be putting your liberty in the hands of 12 strangers down the road.

Very few mutes in prison.

You have all the same rights as a "suspect" as soon as you invoke and actually exercise them. There's no real difference on your end, only on the police end.

"I'm invoking my right to remain silent and my right to counsel. I'm not answering any questions."

Boom. Done.

It used to be that you could just sit there completely silent and say nothing in response to questions, and that was tantamount to invoking. The case law has shifted somewhat on that, and you're better off making a brief statement affirmatively invoking your rights.

Lawyer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kM7aXofMC4

Tom Segura nails it.

Let me ask the person next to me. I will type what they say exactly. Let's see if I've taught them well.

Hub: Hey hun. What do you say to the cops when they knock on the door?

Hun: nuh uh!

Hub: No I mean if they say "excuse me ma'am we don't want to come in, but we'd Like to ask you some questions"

Hun: I want a lawyer

Hub: they're just questions ma'am

Hun: I have to go now. My husband's calling me.

Hub: Are you being coerced? Did you need us to come in?

Hun: no I'm about to go have sex with my husband. Lots of sex. Consentual sex.

Hub: Hun I have to type your response on the forums.

Hun: go ahead. The replies should be funny.


.... love my girl

ETA: don't talk to the cops.

this

Ill trust my fate and freedom more with a jury if 12 and the appelate process than a copper

Before I answer any questions I need to speak to my attorney.  Then sit there and stare at the walls.

I just sat on a jury trial and that was incredibly eye opening.  

If the cops or prosecution think you're guilty, then they will use every dam piece of evidence they can get their hands on to paint you as a criminal.  They'll take relatively innocuous statements, all the data from your phone, etc.  If you make one statement that is ambiguous?  Not a big deal.  Make five ambiguous statements?  At that point juries start to think "hmmm... he's probably guilty."  At that point you better hope you have a good defense lawyer.

Honestly, just don't talk to the cops.

RF

What were the charges and how did it end up?

 

This ^

In simple terms:  STFU.

Working under the assumption that 99% of people can't, even selectively, play the game and win, the only broad statement that anyone can responsibly make is to advise not to speak to the police without a lawyer.  I've seen clear cut victims and witnesses become suspects in a heartbeat.  The only thing I could imagine talking to the police about is a situation where the other person involved really needs to be arrested or hospitalized or else some great harm will come to the victim.



I saw someone (complete stranger) fall off a building once (he was alive the last time I saw him, but that's not saying much), well, I saw them impact the ground at least as I was driving by.  When it happened I was already on the phone with 9-1-1 about something else so the whole thing was documented and recorded.  When I was eventually interviewed, some of the detective's questions were geared towards determining whether I pushed the guy off the roof.



You don't want any involvement with a crime or potential crime if you can at all avoid it.  You have to balance this with your need for the police and your sense of civic duty and justice sometimes.  If you're guilty, don't talk, nothing you say can help you.  Respectfully ask for a lawyer at the outset: "I would be happy to help in any way that I can, but I need to speak to my lawyer first."  Every other shade of gray is a roll of the dice as to whether you come out on top or not.  If the stakes are small, like a fender bender, you might be able to help yourself.  If they found pot in your jacket, shut your mouth.