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Posted: 4/10/2015 5:23:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Practical question: Do you need title insurance?
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Posted: 4/10/2015 6:13:15 PM EDT
[#2]
I can pay for the land with cash. I will need a loan to build and have been told I will have to have title insurance to get that loan.
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Posted: 4/10/2015 6:45:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Practical question: Do you need title insurance? You ALWAYS need title insurance. Heirs can show up years latter with claims |
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Posted: 4/10/2015 7:19:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You ALWAYS need title insurance. Heirs can show up years latter with claims Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Practical question: Do you need title insurance? You ALWAYS need title insurance. Heirs can show up years latter with claims "Always" is almost never the right answer to legal questions. For example, MN has Torrens registration that is very different from the abstract system the OP is probably under in Arkansas. A nice MN specific discussion. Good luck, OP. |
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Posted: 4/10/2015 8:59:52 PM EDT
[#5]
I was told by a different title company today that I could purchase title insurance once 7 years has past. On the document from the state it says the property was forfeited in 2008 and sold June 13, 2013 to the current owner. It has been 7 years from the 2008 date. Does anyone know if that is the date they would go off of? Would it be Jan 1 2008 or Dec 31 2008?
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Posted: 4/10/2015 9:25:26 PM EDT
[#6]
1. This is going to be very state specific. Where do you live?
2. Spend a few bucks and talk to a lawyer in your state. 3. Title insurance is a scam. You pay someone to give you a huge list of exclusions. |
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Posted: 4/10/2015 11:12:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1. This is going to be very state specific. Where do you live? 2. Spend a few bucks and talk to a lawyer in your state. 3. Title insurance is a scam. You pay someone to give you a huge list of exclusions. I am going to make some calls on Monday. I was hoping someone could give me some tips before then. |
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Posted: 4/10/2015 11:57:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I live in Arkansas. I am going to make some calls on Monday. I was hoping someone could give me some tips before then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1. This is going to be very state specific. Where do you live? 2. Spend a few bucks and talk to a lawyer in your state. 3. Title insurance is a scam. You pay someone to give you a huge list of exclusions. Hopefully someone who is barred in AR can tell you something. |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 5:21:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Always" is almost never the right answer to legal questions. For example, MN has Torrens registration that is very different from the abstract system the OP is probably under in Arkansas. A nice MN specific discussion. Good luck, OP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Practical question: Do you need title insurance? You ALWAYS need title insurance. Heirs can show up years latter with claims "Always" is almost never the right answer to legal questions. For example, MN has Torrens registration that is very different from the abstract system the OP is probably under in Arkansas. A nice MN specific discussion. Good luck, OP. It is a good answer for title insurance. Torrens does not normally cover anything but government errors. Not deliberate fraud, not inability to transfer (like an incompetent grantor). It is the detailed research done before title inurance can be issued that provides most of the actual defense. Note that title insurance is still available in MN. Wonder why? |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 10:45:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I have done a ton of leg work and found the previous owner who is in a nursing home. He said he would sign but it turns out he doesn't have power of attorney. IANA lawyer but this makes no sense. Even if he gave a POA to someone else to handle his legal and financial affairs during times when he is unable to do so, that doesn't mean he can't sign if he's willing, able, and mentally competent. Or, has he been declared mentally unfit to handle his own affairs? Does his daughter have some sort of guardianship over him? |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 11:29:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IANA lawyer but this makes no sense. Even if he gave a POA to someone else to handle his legal and financial affairs during times when he is unable to do so, that doesn't mean he can't sign if he's willing, able, and mentally competent. Or, has he been declared mentally unfit to handle his own affairs? Does his daughter have some sort of guardianship over him? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have done a ton of leg work and found the previous owner who is in a nursing home. He said he would sign but it turns out he doesn't have power of attorney. IANA lawyer but this makes no sense. Even if he gave a POA to someone else to handle his legal and financial affairs during times when he is unable to do so, that doesn't mean he can't sign if he's willing, able, and mentally competent. Or, has he been declared mentally unfit to handle his own affairs? Does his daughter have some sort of guardianship over him? |
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Posted: 4/12/2015 8:37:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
His granddaughter has told the nursing home to not let him sign anything from what she has told me. He has had a stroke and can't speak well but he seems to understand everything. His grand daughter is a real piece of work. I've realized she is not going to help me out so I need to find an alternative to getting a quit claim deed from them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have done a ton of leg work and found the previous owner who is in a nursing home. He said he would sign but it turns out he doesn't have power of attorney. IANA lawyer but this makes no sense. Even if he gave a POA to someone else to handle his legal and financial affairs during times when he is unable to do so, that doesn't mean he can't sign if he's willing, able, and mentally competent. Or, has he been declared mentally unfit to handle his own affairs? Does his daughter have some sort of guardianship over him? Has he been declared incompetent by a court? |
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Posted: 4/12/2015 8:44:56 PM EDT
[#13]
How would I find that out?
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Posted: 4/12/2015 11:27:39 PM EDT
[#14]
After doing some research tonight about the process of being mentally incompetent I am pretty sure he is not. Even though he said he would sign his granddaughter has told the nursing home to not allow him to sign anything from me. So I don't see getting him to sign the quit claim deed as an option anymore. I wish I would have played this out differently and I would have been through with this. Live and learn.
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Posted: 4/13/2015 10:27:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a good answer for title insurance. Torrens does not normally cover anything but government errors. Not deliberate fraud, not inability to transfer (like an incompetent grantor). It is the detailed research done before title inurance can be issued that provides most of the actual defense. Note that title insurance is still available in MN. Wonder why? A lot of (mostly rural) property is still under an abstract recording system in MN. Title insurance is still available in MN because, as mentioned above, lenders require it. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy it, but like most things it has its pluses and minuses. It sounds like the granddaughter the OP is dealing with doesn't realize that whatever interest her grandfather had in the property is gone and she's being a pain. |
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Posted: 4/13/2015 10:38:28 AM EDT
[#16]
I don't know your state, but a FL tax deed becomes "marketable" title 4 years after issuance. Otherwise, a quiet title action will be required to insure.
Soliciting a deed from the previous record title owner would be great and all, but good luck getting cooperation from someone that lost their property. Many FL lawyers charge a flat fee $1,000 to $1,500 + costs. Title insurance is essential. |
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Posted: 4/13/2015 2:35:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was told by a different title company today that I could purchase title insurance once 7 years has past. On the document from the state it says the property was forfeited in 2008 and sold June 13, 2013 to the current owner. It has been 7 years from the 2008 date. Does anyone know if that is the date they would go off of? Would it be Jan 1 2008 or Dec 31 2008? Ask the title company. If you decide to proceed then hold off applying for any loans until you can get the title insurance. |
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Posted: 4/13/2015 3:59:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask the title company. If you decide to proceed then hold off applying for any loans until you can get the title insurance. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was told by a different title company today that I could purchase title insurance once 7 years has past. On the document from the state it says the property was forfeited in 2008 and sold June 13, 2013 to the current owner. It has been 7 years from the 2008 date. Does anyone know if that is the date they would go off of? Would it be Jan 1 2008 or Dec 31 2008? Ask the title company. If you decide to proceed then hold off applying for any loans until you can get the title insurance. I am going to try the grand daughter one more time and I think give up if she still won't sign. It's a great price, but I don't want to spend the money and wait for a quiet title when there is no guarantee that someone wouldn't come forward and contest it and make the legal fees skyrocket. It could go from a good price to a bad price after fighting it for awhile. |
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Posted: 4/15/2015 9:55:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Update: turns out the previous owner has a $17k mortgage and a $2k judgement still hanging over the property. Doesn't sound like a quiet title is going to work. The current owner has owned the property for two years. I'm surprised the bank hasn't tried to foreclose on the property. Maybe they can't since it was sold for unpaid taxes. Anyone know if they can?
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Posted: 4/16/2015 12:17:40 PM EDT
[#20]
In every jurisdiction that I'm familiar with, tax sales do not wipe out liens.
Foreclosures only wipe out junior liens. |
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Posted: 4/30/2015 12:16:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In every jurisdiction that I'm familiar with, tax sales do not wipe out liens. Foreclosures only wipe out junior liens. I would look into this. I think the mortgage becomes unsecured in most jurisdictions, i.e. it follows the borrower, but no longer encumbers the land. The purchaser at the tax sale should take free from any mortgage. Sometimes the bank will actually show up and pay for it so that they don't lose their collateral. Assuming true, you could enter into a contract with the seller that you will pay for the quiet title action with the purchase being contingent on acquiring a general warranty deed. I guess it would depend on exactly how good a price you are getting. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:34:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: I am in negotiations to buy 2 acres from someone who purchased this land 2 years ago at a state sale for unpaid taxes dating back to 2008. The current owner only has a limited warranty deed from the state. I am working with a title company and they say I need either a quit claim deed from the previous owner or file quiet title t get tiitle insurance. I have done a ton of leg work and found the previous owner who is in a nursing home. He said he would sign but it turns out he doesn't have power of attorney. I located his power of attorney, grand daughter, and she originally said she would sign, then changed her mind. I offered her $250 and she said she would and got me the power of attorney doc to have a quit claim wrote up, but has changed her mind again. Now I am looking at filing a quiet title. What are my risks of buying the land without title insurance and then trying to clear the title? What happens if the quiet title is contested? How would the previous owners go about proving they have rights to it? In Arkansas the previous owners only have one year from date of the tax sale to litigate the sale and it has been 2 plus years. Do I have any other options to get the land with title insurance? I don't get what you mean here. He's the previous owner, and his granting of a POA to a granddaughter does not negate his ability to sign things in his individual capacity. Have you spoken to a lawyer? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:49:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Always amazes me when I do a closing on a $250,000 loan and the buyer won't pay $500 or so for an owner's policy of title insurance.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:28:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Always amazes me when I do a closing on a $250,000 loan and the buyer won't pay $500 or so for an owner's policy of title insurance. It is crazy. The wife defended title insurance claims for a number of years for the largest title insurer in the US. They rarely paid out, but did occasionally. I think the more important aspect is really the research they do. If you have a problem with title, they will usually find it and you can either cure the defect or get out of the contract. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:55:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Title insurance is a bit of a scam, in my opinion. Every title policy I've ever seen does NOT insure against anything not in the public record, so if some 3rd cousin comes out of the woodwork with an unrecorded deed the policy won't do squat.
What the policy DOES do, as others have said, is provide for a title opinion and the accompanying research before closing. |
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Posted: 5/2/2015 2:36:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't get what you mean here. He's the previous owner, and his granting of a POA to a granddaughter does not negate his ability to sign things in his individual capacity. Have you spoken to a lawyer? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am in negotiations to buy 2 acres from someone who purchased this land 2 years ago at a state sale for unpaid taxes dating back to 2008. The current owner only has a limited warranty deed from the state. I am working with a title company and they say I need either a quit claim deed from the previous owner or file quiet title t get tiitle insurance. I have done a ton of leg work and found the previous owner who is in a nursing home. He said he would sign but it turns out he doesn't have power of attorney. I located his power of attorney, grand daughter, and she originally said she would sign, then changed her mind. I offered her $250 and she said she would and got me the power of attorney doc to have a quit claim wrote up, but has changed her mind again. Now I am looking at filing a quiet title. What are my risks of buying the land without title insurance and then trying to clear the title? What happens if the quiet title is contested? How would the previous owners go about proving they have rights to it? In Arkansas the previous owners only have one year from date of the tax sale to litigate the sale and it has been 2 plus years. Do I have any other options to get the land with title insurance? I don't get what you mean here. He's the previous owner, and his granting of a POA to a granddaughter does not negate his ability to sign things in his individual capacity. Have you spoken to a lawyer? I quit caring after he didn't do that a while back. |
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