As a soon to be 20 yr. old in WI, I'm not prohibited from owning a handgun, but I can't get one through an FFL. I intend to acquire NFA items in the future and wanted to know if I could place a handgun in a living trust I know I'll be getting anyways & if this would let me use an FFL under the age of 21 for anything that isn't a long gun provided it's included in the trust.

That's an interesting question because the trust might not be prohibited from receiving the gun from the FFL even if you are

I don't know

You can have your trust "own" the gun, but the 4473 would be filled out by you the individual trustee and you still have to abide by the rules.  

18 USC 922
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

It's no different than when an LLC or a corporation buys firearms, they're the property of the LLC/corporation but they still have to send an individual to pick them up and the dealer still has to make sure that person isn't prohibited.

I bought and transferred my own suppressor when I was 20. My dad is also on my trust, so he signed all the forms for the suppressor.
I still wasn't able to take possession of it on my own until I turned 21.


If you want a handgun, you have 3 options:

Buy one from an individual in your state
Receive one as a gift
Wait until you turn 21.

You can possess any NFA item at the age of 18. You can also make NFA items (Form 1) at age 18.

You just can't be the one who does dealer transfers until you are 21.

The way I set my trusts up (unless the client specifies otherwise) is that a trustee must be at least 18, and only trustees who are at least 21 may engage in transfers from dealers. Pretty simple.

You can't transfer a Title I firearm directly from a dealer to a trust. Trusts aren't "persons" under the GCA.

A human being would have to own the firearm first, then assign it to the trust in some manner.

And now a follow up question about the limitation of trusts: can trustees mail firearms between themselves? can this extend past state lines in the event I or any trustee move? Would I need to be 21 to pick up any NFA item or non- long gun that is in the trust that I may mail to myself?

Regarding handguns: you may ship a handgun to yourself.  You may not send a handgun through the mail unless sender and receiver are FFLs.  If the state you're shipping it to allows you to possess a handgun when you're <21 then I don't see why you couldn't ship a handgun to yourself, but I don't 100% have the answer.  The shipping label must say "From: ATLOO1 [address], To: ALTOO1 c/o homeowner [address]" and only you may open the box.  

I would think that the interstate shipping rules apply to all firearms, meaning that whether you ship an SBR, suppressor, handgun, shotgun, umbrella gun, etc. it would have to go through a dealer (SOT for NFA items) and the person would have to do a 4473 and be old enough.  If that's correct, they would also be required to bring in a signed statement, made on penalty of perjury, that the gun is "for the use of and will be the property of" the trust.  The address of the trust would also be required.

Thanks for the abundance of knowledge everyone. An update: I called an FFL who said that no form 4473 is needed for the transfer of property between trustees in WI since there is no sale going on, so he could accept a handgun and hand it over. Now the other part: the handgun must to be part of the assets controlled by the living trust to be transferable between two trustees.

As the sole grantor and one of the trustees in my hypothetical living trust who cannot as of yet buy a pistol from an FFL, I'm looking into the possibility of a resident of another state being in the trust who is over 21 having his property included in the assets. Is this possible and can this be interpreted as a private party sale to a non-resident of his state, which is a no-no? In other words can I add a trustee's stuff with their consent to my estate controlled by my trust? I'd like to remain the grantor of my own trust and have said handgun be in the estate I control to minimize the confusion of having two trusts between each of us and insurance in the theoretical event of him changing the terms of his living trust.

Are both people in the same state?

If it's an NFA item, it would be considered a transfer and would require a Form 4 (or two Form 4s and an SOT if the trust's address of record is in a different state).

This seems like a lot of work for something you can legally buy yourself in <1 year.

ETA: Don't get focused on the word "sale".  Interstate firearms laws govern transfers of possession (even temporary transfers).  It sounds like your buddy, who is not in WI, has a handgun you want, so you want to make a trust, add the handgun to the trust's property, and you want to see if you can bypass going through a dealer.  I may be wrong, but I don't see any way you can avoid a dealer (which means waiting until you're 21).  Changing the titular owner doesn't matter.  Forget the trust for a second.  If you visited your friend and paid him money for the gun on the spot, you would be the "owner" for all intents and purposes.  You could even write a receipt saying you own the gun...but the transfer hasn't occurred yet.  You couldn't take the gun with you using the theory that, because you own it, you can cross state lines with it.  It would still have to go through a dealer in WI.  

If someone can show me an exemption to the federal interstate transfer laws, I will gladly apologize and admit I was wrong.

I figured as much that this was all semantics & a ton of work for something I can wait out. I've been looking into trusts for some time & when I had started it made a lot more sense since the wait was closer to 2 yrs. so it became more of a matter of pride in finishing something I set out to do, since, as I enumerated earlier, I know I'm going to get one, and if I can enjoy the benefits of scoring a pistol ahead of time, I figured why not turn everything into a learning experience.

To clarify, yes, this other trustee I mentioned is a resident of a different state than mine & what has been said fits into the framework of the regulations I've since read into. I must engage in a transfer since we are not residents of the same state. I'll get a hold of someone who may be comfortable of being in on this who is a resident of WI, since I know that would circumvent going through a dealer & make the trust regardless since the out of state guy ought to be able to use my future NFA crap anyways.

Great explanations by the way!

My two cents: be careful how you proceed.  SCOTUS ruled on the Abramski case not too long ago, and not in a way that benefits you.  If you're not familiar with it, Abramski's uncle wanted a Glock.  Abramski was able to get one using an LEO discount, so Uncle (who lived in another state) gave Abramski money and Abramski buys gun stating on the 4473 that he was the actual buyer of the firearm.  Abramski then drives to a dealer in Uncle's state who processes a new 4473 for Uncle and Uncle takes him his new gun.  Abramski then got caught up in a completely separate legal issue at which point the feds discovered what he'd done and charged him.  He pled no contest and SCOTUS ultimately ruled against him.  He's now got a federal felony on his record and can never own guns again.

Moral of the story is: you cannot have someone do a 4473 for another person's gun.  Now it sounds like you want to "get a hold of someone" in your state, make them a trustee, then send them to a dealer to receive your buddy's gun where your new-found trustee will need to give the dealer a signed statement, made under penalties of perjury, that he's acquiring the firearm on behalf of, and for use by the trust.  The gun then becomes trust property where you are free to use it as you wish.  My guess is once that happens you'll be the only one to really use the gun and your in-state trustee will magically find himself amended out of the trust.

Maybe it's a legal "loophole", maybe not.  This sums up your best options:

I am familiar with that decision & since it looks like I can't deal with the friend out of state, I'm foregoing getting any firearm owned by him in the trust. What I meant earlier was not as you descried, but thanks for looking out for my ass anyways. It'd just have to be a private party sale between residents of WI that I could then let the trust control.

FIFY

No such thing for polymer wonders :(

You could make an 18 rnd 9x19mm 1911.  

Well I've got it all sorted, but I do want to express my thanks for the pseudo legal advice and 9mm 1911 proaganda. I <3 arfcom xD & it looks like I'm getting my glock the good old fashioned way

Someone's "gifting" you their .45" GAP?  

He's wrong and an idiot.. Whether a "sale" is going on has nothing to do with it.