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mcculver5
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Posted: 8/6/2012 10:48:15 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
Today a trial brief arrived (Fed Ex even) at my office. I knew it was coming because I had called opposing counsel (hoping that he would settle because his case is shite) who was smug as hell telling me all about his master work.

After a brief review, it now appears that said lawyer hasn't the first clue about what he's doing.

He cited to the wrong subsection of the statutes.

He cited the wrong standards of proof.

He cited to a case that has no relevance to the instant case. (The facts are similar, but the case was dismissed on jurisdictional grounds completely unrelated to our case since I'm not a fuckknuckle and know how jurisdiction should be pleaded in this kind of case.)

This makes it 3 for 4 on dumbass pleadings coming out of Denver in recent memory.

Unfortunately, this time I don't think I can get a fee award.

I feel bad for the client of this dumbass. Lord knows what the client had to pay for 9 pages of cut-n-paste crap.

Who the fuck trains these people? Have large firms just given up on basic research? Do any of these idiots ever go to court?
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
JBlitzen
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Posted: 8/6/2012 11:03:26 PM
If I'm standing behind someone who's shooting women and children in a mall, you have my permission to take the shot anyway.
Depidy_Dawg
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NRAMilitary
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Posted: 8/6/2012 11:31:51 PM
Sounds like my county attorney's office.
"I'm gonna tell Mom and Dad everything. I'm even considering makin' up some shit!"
spqrzilla
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Posted: 8/7/2012 10:26:40 AM
No, not all Denver lawyers are this bad ... but the large firms are definitely not giving people value for their high rates. But then, I don't think that they really ever did.
mcculver5
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Posted: 8/7/2012 10:42:09 AM
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
No, not all Denver lawyers are this bad ... but the large firms are definitely not giving people value for their high rates. But then, I don't think that they really ever did.


15 years ago when I started work as a Lawyer it seemed like the 16th street lawyers gave a shit about quality work. I can remember them actually doing things like interviewing witnesses and independent investigations. I understand this might have required someone to do a little field work. As in, get in a car and go look at the scene or talk to people. (Gasp!)

Two years ago I had a case where a brief glance at a map and prevailing winds on the day in question would have demonstrated to a summer intern that their theory of the case was FUBAR. Also, there was a teensy problem with a lack of a GIA notice.

IDK, perhaps it was easier to just sue everybody and pay my fees than do any real investigation or legal research.
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
NickH1
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Posted: 8/7/2012 11:16:42 AM
Is it a debt collection attorney?

They are known to be the bottom of the class in Law School. Ten minutes on the internet will give you better legal training than they appear to have.
mcculver5
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Posted: 8/7/2012 11:23:15 AM
Originally Posted By NickH1:
Is it a debt collection attorney?

They are known to be the bottom of the class in Law School. Ten minutes on the internet will give you better legal training than they appear to have.


No, would that it were. I wouldn't even complain about those folks.

Both the cases I speak of come from firms that, in my estimation, ought to know better.

Honestly, I'm just bitching because I have to file a trial brief (on a fairly simple matter) because opposing counsel has managed to muck things up extraordinarily.
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
spqrzilla
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Posted: 8/7/2012 11:48:14 AM
Originally Posted By NickH1:
Is it a debt collection attorney?

They are known to be the bottom of the class in Law School. Ten minutes on the internet will give you better legal training than they appear to have.


The local collection firms in Denver are extraordinarily incompetent ... and malevolent little SOB's. Machol & Johannes find a way to piss me off with their incompetence weekly.

NoloContendere
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Posted: 8/9/2012 12:30:35 PM
one day i swear i'm going to file a big "LOL" to some of the pleadings i get. that's it. Just a big LOL.
VOTE FREEDOM FIRST!
mcculver5
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Posted: 8/9/2012 12:54:14 PM
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
one day i swear i'm going to file a big "LOL" to some of the pleadings i get. that's it. Just a big LOL.


Yep. To the guy's everlasting credit, upon the filing of my trial brief he 1. requests a continuance, 2. filed another trial brief, and 3. came by my office to sit down and explore possible settlement.

I pretty much had to agree to the continuance because there are constitutional issues involved and his client would have had a pretty good ineffective claim on appeal.

Meh.

I do know a crusty old lawyer who, upon the occasion of receiving an offer from a large insurance defense firm, wrote in large red letters "BULLSHIT" upon the correspondence and sent it back to the offending firm.

That earned him a grievance. Which he then successfully defended.
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
brickeyee
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Posted: 8/9/2012 2:47:43 PM
Half the attorneys are in the bottom of their class.
BushBoar
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Posted: 8/9/2012 2:49:34 PM

Originally Posted By mcculver5:


I do know a crusty old lawyer who, upon the occasion of receiving an offer from a large insurance defense firm, wrote in large red letters "BULLSHIT" upon the correspondence and sent it back to the offending firm.

That earned him a grievance. Which he then successfully defended.

There's an attorney around here who, for real estate closings, faxes a full page of demands (whether he reps buyer or seller) that are absolutely absurd. Recently when he repped a buyer he wanted reciprocal easements for a 1.8 foot encroachment of a gravel driveway.

We always send a terse but somewhat polite letter refusing the demands and the deal closes anyway. One rather prickly local attorney, every time he receives one of these, writes NO in sharpie in giant letters across the page, then faxes it back. No cover letter, no other comments.

To address your OP, some of the best trial attorneys around here do some of the most pathetic legal writing I've ever seen. I'm talking first year law student quality. It's puzzling.
Suos Cultores Scientia Coronat

"But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." - Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1782
LawyerUp
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:00:06 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 3:01:06 PM by LawyerUp]
Originally Posted By BushBoar:

Originally Posted By mcculver5:


I do know a crusty old lawyer who, upon the occasion of receiving an offer from a large insurance defense firm, wrote in large red letters "BULLSHIT" upon the correspondence and sent it back to the offending firm.

That earned him a grievance. Which he then successfully defended.

There's an attorney around here who, for real estate closings, faxes a full page of demands (whether he reps buyer or seller) that are absolutely absurd. Recently when he repped a buyer he wanted reciprocal easements for a 1.8 foot encroachment of a gravel driveway.

We always send a terse but somewhat polite letter refusing the demands and the deal closes anyway. One rather prickly local attorney, every time he receives one of these, writes NO in sharpie in giant letters across the page, then faxes it back. No cover letter, no other comments.

To address your OP, some of the best trial attorneys around here do some of the most pathetic legal writing I've ever seen. I'm talking first year law student quality. It's puzzling.


When I worked for the federal government there was a running joke about state court attorneys and how bad their documents were. After subsequently having been a state court lawyer I realized that in most cases it didn't matter what you put in the documents, the result was already determined, and that the only important thing were the facts and the trial. But, yeah there are certain lawyers who are just beyond the pale in the crap they send to you.

ETA: awful grammar.
mcculver5
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:32:52 PM
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Half the attorneys are in the bottom of their class.


I can tell you to a moral certainty that one's law school ranking is not a good predictor of one's legal ability.
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
BushBoar
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:37:02 PM

Originally Posted By mcculver5:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Half the attorneys are in the bottom of their class.


I can tell you to a moral certainty that one's law school ranking is not a good predictor of one's legal ability.

I heard when I was in law school that the A students become professors, and the B students end up working for the C students.


Suos Cultores Scientia Coronat

"But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." - Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1782
mcculver5
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:49:30 PM
Originally Posted By BushBoar:

Originally Posted By mcculver5:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Half the attorneys are in the bottom of their class.


I can tell you to a moral certainty that one's law school ranking is not a good predictor of one's legal ability.

I heard when I was in law school that the A students become professors, and the B students end up working for the C students.




That's a pretty good old saw, that I heard as well.

Of course the only ones making money right now are the professors and the C students.
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
BushBoar
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:55:01 PM

Originally Posted By mcculver5:
Originally Posted By BushBoar:

Originally Posted By mcculver5:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Half the attorneys are in the bottom of their class.


I can tell you to a moral certainty that one's law school ranking is not a good predictor of one's legal ability.

I heard when I was in law school that the A students become professors, and the B students end up working for the C students.




That's a pretty good old saw, that I heard as well.

Of course the only ones making money right now are the professors and the C students.

I work for my father, a C student (in all fairness to him he worked 2 full time jobs while in law school).

Being a professor wouldn't be a bad gig, except they expect you to write. I enjoy writing briefs, motions, memorandums, etc, but a law review article? Hell no.
Suos Cultores Scientia Coronat

"But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." - Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1782
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Posted: 8/12/2012 11:38:32 PM
What are you talking about???

I'm from Colorado... of course I went into medicine, but hey...

Denver Univ. SOL has almost 50% of its grads in jobs which require a law degree...

The rest send you briefs it appears...

I Love Colorado... but it is not the same State in which I grew up. It has become a Southern California Transplant service... and unfortunately... the 'native' population is caught in the crossfire.
SuperMoose
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Posted: 8/22/2012 9:44:24 PM
Originally Posted By mcculver5:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Half the attorneys are in the bottom of their class.


I can tell you to a moral certainty that one's law school ranking is not a good predictor of one's legal ability.


Excellent, that means I still have a chance in hell.
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
I always carry a gun so I cant get into any kind of a fight but a gun fight.
Czechers
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Posted: 8/22/2012 9:53:43 PM
Surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but Colorado has no mandatory state Bar. You can just hang out a shingle and call yourself a lawyer in CO. Same thing for private investigators in CO....
mcculver5
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Posted: 8/22/2012 10:11:05 PM
Originally Posted By Czechers:
Surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but Colorado has no mandatory state Bar. You can just hang out a shingle and call yourself a lawyer in CO. Same thing for private investigators in CO....


No one mentioned it because it is not true.


Its not mandatory that one join the bar association.


It is mandatory that you get a bar card from the Supremes and pass an exam etc.
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
Czechers
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Posted: 8/22/2012 10:14:37 PM
[Last Edit: 8/22/2012 10:20:01 PM by Czechers]

Originally Posted By mcculver5:
Originally Posted By Czechers:
Surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but Colorado has no mandatory state Bar. You can just hang out a shingle and call yourself a lawyer in CO. Same thing for private investigators in CO....


No one mentioned it because it is not true.


Its not mandatory that one join the bar association.


It is mandatory that you get a bar card from the Supremes and pass an exam etc.

Like I said no mandatory state bar. LIke you said, no mandatory state bar..

I'll strike the shingle part......when did that change? I had to go up to Colorado a few years ago and get some files back from a practicing lawyer who was "grandfathered in" from the "old" system and wasn't a member of the bar (and was batshit crazy)...
mcculver5
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Posted: 8/22/2012 10:28:14 PM
[Last Edit: 8/22/2012 10:35:44 PM by mcculver5]
Originally Posted By Czechers:

Originally Posted By mcculver5:
Originally Posted By Czechers:
Surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but Colorado has no mandatory state Bar. You can just hang out a shingle and call yourself a lawyer in CO. Same thing for pr ivate investigators in CO....


No one mentioned it because it is not true.


Its not mandatory that one join the bar association.


It is mandatory that you get a bar card from the Supremes and pass an exam etc.

Like I said no mandatory state bar. LIke you said, no mandatory state bar..

I'll strike the shingle part......when did that change? I had to go up to Colorado a few years ago and get some files back from a practicing lawyer who was "grandfathered in" from the "old" system and wasn't a member of the bar (and was batshit crazy)...


Let me be more clear. Its mandatory that you be admitted to the state Bar to practice law. That requires. A degree from an accredited law school, stuff and things and tests and whatnot. Without being admitted to the bar and getting a bar card, you may not practice law in any court in colorado.

The state bar is managed by the CO Supreme Court. The Court requires you to be a member of the state bar to practice law in any court. If one doesn't have a bar card and registration number, one cannot practice.

The bar association is a seperate entity that has nothing whatever to do with attorney regulation.

So, no, one cannot simply hang a shingle and expect to practice law in any court in CO.

Its been that way for the last 30 years I think.


ETA: I am a pedantic pecksneffian ass. Sorry.

AETA. I spell like an idiot on my Blackberry.
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
BushBoar
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Posted: 8/22/2012 11:02:53 PM
[Last Edit: 8/22/2012 11:03:27 PM by BushBoar]

Originally Posted By SuperMoose:
Originally Posted By mcculver5:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Half the attorneys are in the bottom of their class.


I can tell you to a moral certainty that one's law school ranking is not a good predictor of one's legal ability.


Excellent, that means I still have a chance in hell.

I was a B student and based on what I see on Facebook, I'm doing much better than most of the people that were ranked ahead of me.

Hell, a half dozen or so of my classmates gave up on practicing law altogether.
Suos Cultores Scientia Coronat

"But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." - Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1782
dbrowne1
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Posted: 8/23/2012 11:00:02 AM
Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Who the fuck trains these people? Have large firms just given up on basic research? Do any of these idiots ever go to court?


1. Highly compensated monkeys who don't actually litigate, and justify their partnership by playing golf with gullible clients who feed them business.

2. Often, though not always.

3. Maybe if they get speeding tickets.
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Wyzardd
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Posted: 8/23/2012 11:10:27 AM
My bro-in-law is a lawyer in Colorado and a long time lurker around here so I have to say that they aren't all like that. We do have a few decent ones around here (and if you can't trust a Fibre Channel firmware engineer to recommend a good lawyer, who can you trust?).
You know when you're leaning back in a chair, just on two legs, and you go so far that you almost fall over backwards, but at the last instant you catch yourself? That's how I feel all the time.
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