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 bryang 
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Joined: Feb 2009  TN, USA
 
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Posted: 7/26/2012 10:32:57 AM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT During this time, her rent was regularly raised (as Social Security went up, the rent went up the exact amount of the increase). Although the front door has a electronic lock requiring pass code to be punched in, strangers were regularly in the building (it was commonly joked about by the residents that "everyone in the town had the access code". Late last year the 75-year old gentleman upstairs from her apartment was murdered. On other occasions, residents were found dead (generally natural causes) in their apartments - however sometimes not being discovered for days (in one case, weeks). Earlier this year my mom - along with about 100 other seniors - were forced to evacuate the facility for a few days after a water main burst and flooded a couple floors of the building. My mom was told to renew her lease early this year, which she did under the assumption that she would have been to to immediately vacate her apartment if she did not. She shortly afterwards tendered her (required) two-month notice that she would be moving out. She moved out and relocated to Tennessee. She's been living with my wife and I, and just moved into a nice apartment for seniors here. My mom received a letter stating that she owed the old apartment complex $855 for having broken her lease. My sister and I both tried to reason with the apartment management over it, however each time were brushed off. My mom is 72 and on Social Security and draws alimony from my father. These are her sole sources of income. She depleted her savings as part of her move out here to Tennessee and to get herself set up in her new place. This week my mom was served (via mail) warrant in debt (civil claim for money) for the $855, plus court costs, legal fees, and 6% interest. An attorney who works in my building advised that she ignore it all. She has limited income, and what she has is exempt from collection (social security and alimony). I was wondering if I send a letter to the court explaining my mom's situation if it would hold any bearing? Do we ignore it and let the collectors try to collect - knowing that she'll likely start receiving harassing calls after judgment is made against her? What are some other thoughts/considerations/similar experiences from the group? Thanks - |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 11:36:39 AM
A letter to the court is meaningless. It does not matter that the judgment will be uncollectable to the court.
You've already discussed this with an attorney in your state, why are you ignoring his advice? |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 12:11:11 PM
She's my mom, and I worry about her.
Pisses me off that she's facing this - even if out of state - knowing that the harassment is about to commence. I'd like to enjoy what time we have together in relative peace. |
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1IV
Been there got the tshirt, and a tattoo....
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Posted: 7/26/2012 12:19:10 PM
Ignore them. Sort her mail.
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Posted: 7/26/2012 12:45:16 PM
When/If she starts getting harassed by debt collectors find a Consumer Rights lawyer and sue the debt collector for violating the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
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SteelonSteel
Just some schmuck with a computer.
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Posted: 7/26/2012 12:45:45 PM
Judgement proof is judgement proof. Tell her to enjoy the one perk of being on ss and the alimony. Not to worry unless she owns significant property or decides to rejoin the workforce.
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Posted: 7/26/2012 1:11:52 PM
[Last Edit: 7/26/2012 1:12:48 PM by spd2230]
If your mom signed a lease that bound her to the property for a specified length of time then why not pony up the money because she broke a contract? Nah, too easy. Lets just shirk our obligations instead.
ETA: Am I missing something? |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 1:12:29 PM
I appreciate the comments folks. I just wanted to hear a few other (more impartial) view points.
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Posted: 7/26/2012 1:16:07 PM
"If your mom signed a lease that bound her to the property for a specified length of time then why not pony up the money because she broke a contract? Nah, too easy. Lets just shirk our obligations instead. "
She did not know this was an obligation. First time she had ever lived in rental place (she had her own home at one time, however got to a point in her life that she was unable to maintain it (declining health). Good sarcasm, however! |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 1:25:40 PM
Originally Posted By gtengineer02:
When/If she starts getting harassed by debt collectors find a Consumer Rights lawyer and sue the debt collector for violating the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Not useful advice if she actually owes the debt. |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 1:26:27 PM
It isn't sarcasm. I'm dead serious. I read your title as "My Mom is Being Sued"
"Elderly Woman on Fixed Income" is irrelevant. A contract is a contract. If you don't hold up your end of a contract you sign, then you are in default and should pay any penalties set out in the original contract. With that said, if she is going to welch, then I wouldn't ever go back to VA because they will probably issue a body attachment. Why do people think that contracts mean nothing? Oh, you can always ask to modify the terms, but if the other party says no, then you have to abide by the original contract you signed as long as it was legal at the time of signing. Originally Posted By bryang: "If your mom signed a lease that bound her to the property for a specified length of time then why not pony up the money because she broke a contract? Nah, too easy. Lets just shirk our obligations instead. " She did not know this was an obligation. First time she had ever lived in rental place (she had her own home at one time, however got to a point in her life that she was unable to maintain it (declining health). Good sarcasm, however! |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 1:29:09 PM
[Last Edit: 7/26/2012 1:33:16 PM by lazyengineer]
She is in the wrong. Being elderly doesn't change that. She signed a legal contract, and the owners depend on it for their necessary revenue stream.
The good news is you can ignore it, but don't be righteous about it just because life is hard. My advice is to stay out if it, and not associate your name, number and address in any way, or the bill collectors will be calling you for years. |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 3:20:59 PM
[Last Edit: 7/27/2012 12:33:31 PM by TitleII]
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
She is in the wrong. Being elderly doesn't change that. She signed a legal contract, and the owners depend on it for their necessary revenue stream. The good news is you can ignore it, but don't be righteous about it just because life is hard. My advice is to stay out if it, and not associate your name, number and address in any way, or the bill collectors will be calling you for years. I'm guessing that your Mom's name is already associated with your phone and address. You will be dealing with collectors forever. If you really want to do what is best for your Mom, just pay the obligation for her. Try and negotiate a lower fee. If they turn it over to collections they will loose a large percentage anyway. See if they will take 600 bucks and be done with it. If they won't negotiate pay the obligation in full. Don't even bother your Mom with the stress. Just take care of it. |
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BushBoar
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Posted: 7/26/2012 4:24:31 PM
[Last Edit: 7/26/2012 4:27:26 PM by BushBoar]
Originally Posted By bryang: After 37 years in northern Virginia, my mom left the state and relocated to be near me in Tennessee. She lived in a senior apartment complex in Virginia for three years. During this time, her rent was regularly raised (as Social Security went up, the rent went up the exact amount of the increase). Although the front door has a electronic lock requiring pass code to be punched in, strangers were regularly in the building (it was commonly joked about by the residents that "everyone in the town had the access code". Late last year the 75-year old gentleman upstairs from her apartment was murdered. On other occasions, residents were found dead (generally natural causes) in their apartments - however sometimes not being discovered for days (in one case, weeks). Earlier this year my mom - along with about 100 other seniors - were forced to evacuate the facility for a few days after a water main burst and flooded a couple floors of the building. My mom was told to renew her lease early this year, which she did under the assumption that she would have been to to immediately vacate her apartment if she did not. She shortly afterwards tendered her (required) two-month notice that she would be moving out. She moved out and relocated to Tennessee. She's been living with my wife and I, and just moved into a nice apartment for seniors here. My mom received a letter stating that she owed the old apartment complex $855 for having broken her lease. My sister and I both tried to reason with the apartment management over it, however each time were brushed off. My mom is 72 and on Social Security and draws alimony from my father. These are her sole sources of income. She depleted her savings as part of her move out here to Tennessee and to get herself set up in her new place. This week my mom was served (via mail) warrant in debt (civil claim for money) for the $855, plus court costs, legal fees, and 6% interest. An attorney who works in my building advised that she ignore it all. She has limited income, and what she has is exempt from collection (social security and alimony). I was wondering if I send a letter to the court explaining my mom's situation if it would hold any bearing? Do we ignore it and let the collectors try to collect - knowing that she'll likely start receiving harassing calls after judgment is made against her? What are some other thoughts/considerations/similar experiences from the group? Thanks - Your mom is what we like to call "judgment proof." As an attorney I'd not advise someone to ignore a summons or an Order of a court. However, there isn't much they can do to her to collect. She doesn't own real property anywhere, right? I'd probably offer the apartment complex a few hundred to settle the matter. I wonder if Virginia imposes a duty on landlords to mitigate? |
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Chairman
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Posted: 7/26/2012 4:41:55 PM
Originally Posted By BushBoar:
Originally Posted By bryang:
After 37 years in northern Virginia, my mom left the state and relocated to be near me in Tennessee. She lived in a senior apartment complex in Virginia for three years. During this time, her rent was regularly raised (as Social Security went up, the rent went up the exact amount of the increase). Although the front door has a electronic lock requiring pass code to be punched in, strangers were regularly in the building (it was commonly joked about by the residents that "everyone in the town had the access code". Late last year the 75-year old gentleman upstairs from her apartment was murdered. On other occasions, residents were found dead (generally natural causes) in their apartments - however sometimes not being discovered for days (in one case, weeks). Earlier this year my mom - along with about 100 other seniors - were forced to evacuate the facility for a few days after a water main burst and flooded a couple floors of the building. My mom was told to renew her lease early this year, which she did under the assumption that she would have been to to immediately vacate her apartment if she did not. She shortly afterwards tendered her (required) two-month notice that she would be moving out. She moved out and relocated to Tennessee. She's been living with my wife and I, and just moved into a nice apartment for seniors here. My mom received a letter stating that she owed the old apartment complex $855 for having broken her lease. My sister and I both tried to reason with the apartment management over it, however each time were brushed off. My mom is 72 and on Social Security and draws alimony from my father. These are her sole sources of income. She depleted her savings as part of her move out here to Tennessee and to get herself set up in her new place. This week my mom was served (via mail) warrant in debt (civil claim for money) for the $855, plus court costs, legal fees, and 6% interest. An attorney who works in my building advised that she ignore it all. She has limited income, and what she has is exempt from collection (social security and alimony). I was wondering if I send a letter to the court explaining my mom's situation if it would hold any bearing? Do we ignore it and let the collectors try to collect - knowing that she'll likely start receiving harassing calls after judgment is made against her? What are some other thoughts/considerations/similar experiences from the group? Thanks - Your mom is what we like to call "judgment proof." As an attorney I'd not advise someone to ignore a summons or an Order of a court. However, there isn't much they can do to her to collect. She doesn't own real property anywhere, right? I'd probably offer the apartment complex a few hundred to settle the matter. I wonder if Virginia imposes a duty on landlords to mitigate? This is an important question. |
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dbrowne1
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Posted: 7/26/2012 5:05:11 PM
[Last Edit: 7/26/2012 5:09:17 PM by dbrowne1]
I'd bet the apartment management has her current banking information (e.g., copies of checks with full account numbers). If I'm the lawyer representing them and you ignore the Warrant in Debt, I'll take default judgment and issue a garnishment on that bank account. There may be arguments regarding exemptions from garnishment based on various things in this scenario, but if it's a bank account (as opposed to a garnishment on the actual income stream) then that money is going to get tied up and probably go to them unless you act to plead those exemptions and prove that all the money in the account is proceeds from exempt income.
All of which is to say that she may not be as "judgment-proof" as you think at the moment. Do with this information what you will.  |
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dbrowne1
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Posted: 7/26/2012 5:08:16 PM
Originally Posted By BushBoar:
Your mom is what we like to call "judgment proof." As an attorney I'd not advise someone to ignore a summons or an Order of a court. However, there isn't much they can do to her to collect. She doesn't own real property anywhere, right? I'd probably offer the apartment complex a few hundred to settle the matter. I wonder if Virginia imposes a duty on landlords to mitigate? Never even going to come up if she defaults. Apartment complex lawyer will show up to the return date, hand the GDC judge a statement of account, and judgment will be entered in about 8 seconds. |
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fxntime
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Posted: 7/26/2012 5:15:43 PM
The best time to ask questions is before you sign a contract, not afterwards when you break it.
It sounds like the amount requested is not excessive. She would owe for the time it took for them to rent to another person and if it took just a month or two, few courts are not going to allow that judgement. I understand she is elderly but that doesn't give a person a free pass to walk out on a contract. Collecting may be harder but don't expect everyone to just drop collections because of that. |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 5:16:07 PM
The judgment is too small. It'll get sold around to different collection agencies at cents on the dollar until it just gets round-filed.
Since she rents, she does not have any property that can have a lein filed on it, and as stated her SS and Alimony can't have garnishments levied against it. After a few months, or a year, each collection agency that buys the judgment will sell it for a small loss to the next one until it's just written off entirely. Worst that will happen is lots of collections junk mail. |
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xanadu
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Posted: 7/26/2012 5:29:41 PM
Screw the apartment manager, find out who OWNS the apartment complex, tell them the Apt manager coerced your mom into signing or she was going to lose everything in the building closure due to the water main break. Ask the owner if he/she is going to stand for this kind of behaviour on a poor defensless senior citizen.
Then ask him to drop the suit and send a letter to you stating such. You have Zero exposure in the above attempt and if you give the guy the old "listen I'm not trying to get anyone fired or bring any kind of media attention to your property, but ...." it'll likely work. |
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dbrowne1
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Posted: 7/26/2012 5:33:55 PM
Lots of interesting advice so far in this thread from people who don't litigate for a living in Virginia.
Now that your mom has moved, she might want to change her banking relationship to someplace new. You know, for more convenience in Tennessee and all that. Just throwing that out there. |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 8:37:53 PM
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Originally Posted By gtengineer02:
When/If she starts getting harassed by debt collectors find a Consumer Rights lawyer and sue the debt collector for violating the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Not useful advice if she actually owes the debt. Actually, it is. Just because she owes the debt is not relevant. One at third party debt collector tries to collect a consumer debt, the FDCPA applies and there are limits as to how aggressive they can be. If the original creditor is trying to collect the debt or it isn't a consumer debt then the FDCPA doesn't apply. My Consumer Rights Law professor makes a very nice living suing debt collectors that violate the FDCPA trying to collect a debt that at least to some degree was actually owed. |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 9:36:42 PM
Originally Posted By xanadu:
Screw the apartment manager, find out who OWNS the apartment complex, tell them the Apt manager coerced your mom into signing or she was going to lose everything in the building closure due to the water main break. Ask the owner if he/she is going to stand for this kind of behaviour on a poor defensless senior citizen. Then ask him to drop the suit and send a letter to you stating such. You have Zero exposure in the above attempt and if you give the guy the old "listen I'm not trying to get anyone fired or bring any kind of media attention to your property, but ...." it'll likely work. Threatening to commit a crime is not good advice. |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 9:38:41 PM
Originally Posted By gtengineer02:
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Originally Posted By gtengineer02:
When/If she starts getting harassed by debt collectors find a Consumer Rights lawyer and sue the debt collector for violating the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Not useful advice if she actually owes the debt. Actually, it is. Just because she owes the debt is not relevant. One at third party debt collector tries to collect a consumer debt, the FDCPA applies and there are limits as to how aggressive they can be. If the original creditor is trying to collect the debt or it isn't a consumer debt then the FDCPA doesn't apply. My Consumer Rights Law professor makes a very nice living suing debt collectors that violate the FDCPA trying to collect a debt that at least to some degree was actually owed. And no such facts exist in OP's post. |
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xanadu
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Posted: 7/26/2012 9:48:29 PM
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Originally Posted By xanadu:
Screw the apartment manager, find out who OWNS the apartment complex, tell them the Apt manager coerced your mom into signing or she was going to lose everything in the building closure due to the water main break. Ask the owner if he/she is going to stand for this kind of behaviour on a poor defensless senior citizen. Then ask him to drop the suit and send a letter to you stating such. You have Zero exposure in the above attempt and if you give the guy the old "listen I'm not trying to get anyone fired or bring any kind of media attention to your property, but ...." it'll likely work. Threatening to commit a crime is not good advice. No threating to commit a crime, just taking the complaint up the ladder and suggesting that the Apt manager was a scumbag and that you'd like it resolved quietly at the ownership level.
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walttx
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Posted: 7/26/2012 9:52:16 PM
Did they send that letter by registered mail ?
if not throw it away and forget about it. |
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