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Posted: 6/26/2012 12:59:41 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT I wonder if you can, in effect, present your side of the story while acting as your own counsel without being subject to cross examination as a defendant giving testimony. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 1:08:50 PM
Defending oneself is called "pro se" or "pro per" .
it can be good or bad, when you have a fool for a client . |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 3:28:39 PM
Originally Posted By ServiceGun:
Can somebody act as their own defense attorney and not take the witness stand in their own defense? I wonder if you can, in effect, present your side of the story while acting as your own counsel without being subject to cross examination as a defendant giving testimony. Not really. If you don't testify, and you don't present other witnesses, you will have presented no evidence. And if you present no evidence, you can't "argue" what it would have been. |
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Posted: 6/26/2012 5:58:51 PM
Could you do it as a technical matter? Yes. But you would have to be careful.
You could present your side of the story through other witnesses, if they exist. But, you would have to be sure to ask your questions in such a way as to really be asking questions and not testifying in the course of the questions. If you start testifying in the asking of questions you'll piss off the judge. And you'll have to restrict your arguments to things the other witnesses actually said. If you bring up new facts in the closing argument, you'll get slapped nicely by the judge. I've seen it happen to lawyers. Its fun when it's happening to someone else.
Whether it's a good idea or not is another question altogether. (Spoiler alert: It is not a good idea, except perhaps in small claims court.)
Furthermore, if we're talking about a civil case, the other side can call you as a witness anyway if they want to. In a criminal case, it's probably not worth the intellectual challenge and/or vanity of defending yourself. Either hire a lawyer, or if you can't afford one, ask for a public defender. Outside of big cities the public defenders are usually the exact same lawyers you would hire on your own, so there's not much of a quality fall-off with a PD. |
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Posted: 6/27/2012 5:26:18 PM
"They say that a man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client. And, with God as my witness, I am that fool!"
-Gomez Addams, 1991. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 10:21:28 AM
[Last Edit: 6/29/2012 10:22:40 AM by MotorMouth]
Originally Posted By ServiceGun:
Can somebody act as their own defense attorney and not take the witness stand in their own defense? Yes, you have the right to do both of those things. I wonder if you can, in effect, present your side of the story while acting as your own counsel without being subject to cross examination as a defendant giving testimony. Yes, but it requires some careful cross-examination of the state's witnesses and/or good defense witnesses, and a careful closing argument. If it's speeding ticket, have fun knock yourself out, but don't start bitching to me or anyone else when you get stuck with a fine, the court costs, witness fees, etc. Any possibility of incarceration? Hire a competent attorney. |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 10:21:55 AM
speeding tickets, hell,all traffic tickets are easy to defeat pro se and in fact, is the only way to defeat them as a hired lawyer always addresses the merits of the
case,(instead of due process violations )is always in collusion with the court/afraid of the judge resulting in a lesser charge or deal. your work begins well before court by filing the proper motions,affidavits into the record. youll need to know your applicable statutes, always read the statute your being charged under as it was passed by legislature. learn your states criminal procedure AND FIND THE DUE PROCESS VIOLATIONS THEY SURELY COMMITTED. get busy on the courts ass. |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 10:29:12 AM
I did it once but that was in family court, not criminal.
And yes I did win but that was because she knew I had extensive documentation daring back years along with evidence of her theft of controlled substances, being caught, and she knew it would be presented if I had to. |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 10:36:59 AM
I have watched several people I have cited or charged represent themselves. I can only think of one time when the guy got the charges dropped. Many of themselves, particularly the ones that were/are pissed about why they are there, end up embarrassing themselves. Doubly so when there is a witness for the prosecution they don't like.
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Posted: 7/27/2012 2:55:46 PM
If you annoy the judge you can also find fines suddenly being increased.
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Posted: 7/30/2012 3:44:36 PM
[Last Edit: 7/30/2012 3:46:01 PM by dbrowne1]
Originally Posted By stob:
speeding tickets, hell,all traffic tickets are easy to defeat pro se and in fact, is the only way to defeat them as a hired lawyer always addresses the merits of the case,(instead of due process violations )is always in collusion with the court/afraid of the judge resulting in a lesser charge or deal. your work begins well before court by filing the proper motions,affidavits into the record. youll need to know your applicable statutes, always read the statute your being charged under as it was passed by legislature. learn your states criminal procedure AND FIND THE DUE PROCESS VIOLATIONS THEY SURELY COMMITTED. get busy on the courts ass. Riiiiiight...
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Posted: 7/30/2012 3:47:37 PM
Originally Posted By stob: speeding tickets, hell,all traffic tickets are easy to defeat pro se and in fact, is the only way to defeat them as a hired lawyer always addresses the merits of the case,(instead of due process violations )is always in collusion with the court/afraid of the judge resulting in a lesser charge or deal. your work begins well before court by filing the proper motions,affidavits into the record. youll need to know your applicable statutes, always read the statute your being charged under as it was passed by legislature. learn your states criminal procedure AND FIND THE DUE PROCESS VIOLATIONS THEY SURELY COMMITTED. get busy on the courts ass. What? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 6:11:34 PM
[Last Edit: 7/30/2012 9:15:03 PM by BushBoar]
<Keep it on topic; this is a tech form, not GD - BB>
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Posted: 7/30/2012 6:20:27 PM
Not a good idea durring a criminal case.
Civil case it's your money. The other one its your freedom |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 6:24:42 PM
Originally Posted By ServiceGun: Can somebody act as their own defense attorney and not take the witness stand in their own defense? I wonder if you can, in effect, present your side of the story while acting as your own counsel without being subject to cross examination as a defendant giving testimony. Basically, no. You can represent yourself and ask questions of both the prosecution witnesses and any witnesses you want, but you can't get up and "tell your story" by being your own attorney then just avoid being cross examined, basically you would still have to be sworn in and be subject to cross examination if you wanted to talk about the case. You could tell what you hoped to prove in your opeining "i will show you that I was at the Nasty Crack Strip Club at the time the dog was thrown over the fence" but if you don't then either testify yourself about where you were, or call one of the whores etc the prosecution would bring up on their closing argument that you are full of shit |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 9:10:08 PM
[Last Edit: 7/30/2012 9:12:04 PM by dbrowne1]
Originally Posted By stob:
...inane blather... OK. You win. The 5 or more practicing, experienced litigation attorneys posting in this thread know nothing, and all you have to do is study everything and find a due process violation, throw on your seersucker suit, and bomb that knowledge like Matlock. Or find some defect in the "complaint," because there are often fatal errors in something as complex and pitfall-laden as a uniform traffic summons or criminal warrant form. This is an especially good strategy for more serious cases where you are facing jail time or loss of a license. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 10:19:44 PM
First Let me say first, I am not an attorney. I worked in court services (bailiff / security) for 8 years and watched many trial, proceedings etc... I can recall one person who did a credible job of representing themselves. Most did not know the proceedures, protocalls, or the law/case law applicable to their situation. What I saw was that most were too emotionally in the issue to be objective. typically they got buried alive. Not sure whatyour issue is , but if its has serious implications, get yourself counsel.
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Posted: 7/31/2012 11:44:42 AM
[Last Edit: 7/31/2012 11:45:59 AM by gtengineer02]
Originally Posted By A143:
First Let me say first, I am not an attorney. I worked in court services (bailiff / security) for 8 years and watched many trial, proceedings etc... I can recall one person who did a credible job of representing themselves. Most did not know the proceedures, protocalls, or the law/case law applicable to their situation. What I saw was that most were too emotionally in the issue to be objective. typically they got buried alive. Not sure whatyour issue is , but if its has serious implications, get yourself counsel. These two things are my most cited reasons as to why a person shouldn't represent themselves when asked about pro se representation. |
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Posted: 7/31/2012 8:16:10 PM
[Last Edit: 7/31/2012 11:23:41 PM by BushBoar]
<Edited and warned. - BB>
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Posted: 7/31/2012 11:07:08 PM
Originally Posted By stob:
Nonsense removed. I hope you weren't planing on posting in this subforum much. |
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Posted: 8/27/2012 12:32:11 AM
[Last Edit: 8/27/2012 12:33:11 AM by TANGOCHASER]
My son and three of his friends were sited for crimnal trespass (vehicular). They were parked in the Auto Zone parking lot on cuise night after the posted hours. Friends got lawyers, paid $350 for lawyer fees, ticket fine, court costs and to try and get the charge dismissed. They went to court, pled not guilty and got another court date for the trial.
My son looked up the fee on the city website, walked into court and pled no contest. Judge said "I find you guilty", asked the court clerk what the fine was, she told him up to $100. Judge asked my son "How does $50 sound"? My son said "works for me". Judge fined him $50 and no court costs. And it comes off his record in 6 months if no other criminal convictions. Criminal court so no points on his driving record and insurance rates not affected. Defending yourself can work if the conditions are rtight and you do some research into the charges and fines. |
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Posted: 8/27/2012 8:04:40 AM
Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread,
This was posed as an academic legal question, a mental exercise, which Aimless came the closest to answering.. I have no intention of representing myself in court. Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By ServiceGun:
Can somebody act as their own defense attorney and not take the witness stand in their own defense? I wonder if you can, in effect, present your side of the story while acting as your own counsel without being subject to cross examination as a defendant giving testimony. Basically, no. You can represent yourself and ask questions of both the prosecution witnesses and any witnesses you want, but you can't get up and "tell your story" by being your own attorney then just avoid being cross examined, basically you would still have to be sworn in and be subject to cross examination if you wanted to talk about the case. You could tell what you hoped to prove in your opeining "i will show you that I was at the Nasty Crack Strip Club at the time the dog was thrown over the fence" but if you don't then either testify yourself about where you were, or call one of the whores etc the prosecution would bring up on their closing argument that you are full of shit |
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