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Posted: 2/11/2010 9:25:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Bottom line is that the CCFD runs UNDER BUDGET.
CCFD operates understaffed with massive overtime because that is how the County wants it. The County tells me when to come to work, 4th of July....birthdays...Christmas...New Years...24, 48, 72 hrs at a time. Yes, we have a strong union (it has its issues for sure) but make no mistake about it. IT IS THE COUNTY GOV that chooses the staffing levels and dictates the overtime. I would rather be home personally. 
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Posted: 2/11/2010 9:25:37 PM EDT
[#2]
gotta call.....
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Posted: 2/11/2010 9:25:53 PM EDT
[#3]
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I am truly amazed that we pay pro athletes millions to entertain us and balk at what FF's and LEO's get paid to protect us..... Funny, I didn't realize my tax money was paying for Lebron James to perform ... oh wait, he doesn't work in the public sector getting a union paycheck paid for by the taxpayers, unlike firefighters. Granted, cities give incentives to sports teams to keep them around, but it's hardly the same thing. |
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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:09:44 PM EDT
[#4]
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Amen Supercobra. I think most of the people complaining didnt pass the hiring test. Yes, that must be it. We wouldn't be taxpayers or anything, or people with a sense of economic reality. Why don't we pay them millions a year? 
Do you think these guys were overpaid? We shall never forget these 343 Firefighters Below is a list sorted by Letters A-Z. 9-11-never-forget.jpgA Joseph Agnello, Lad.118 Lt. Brian Ahearn, Bat.13 Eric Allen, Sqd.18 (D) Richard Allen, Lad.15 Cpt. James Amato, Sqd.1 Calixto Anaya Jr., Eng.4 Joseph Agnello, Lad.118 Lt. Brian Ahearn, Bat.13 Eric Allen, Sqd.18 (D) Richard Allen, Lad.15 Cpt. James Amato, Sqd.1 Calixto Anaya Jr., Eng.4 Joseph Angelini, Res.1 (D) Joseph Angelini Jr., Lad.4 Faustino Apostol Jr., Bat.2 David Arce, Eng.33 Louis Arena, Lad.5 (D) Carl Asaro, Bat.9 Lt. Gregg Atlas, Eng.10 Gerald Atwood, Lad.21 B Gerald Baptiste, Lad.9 A.C. Gerard Barbara, Cmd. Ctr. Matthew Barnes, Lad.25 Arthur Barry, Lad.15 Lt.Steven Bates, Eng.235 Carl Bedigian, Eng.214 Stephen Belson, Bat.7 John Bergin, Res.5 Paul Beyer, Eng.6 Peter Bielfeld, Lad.42 Brian Bilcher, Sqd.1 Carl Bini, Res.5 Christopher Blackwell, Res.3 Michael Bocchino, Bat.48 Frank Bonomo, Eng.230 Gary Box, Sqd.1 Michael Boyle, Eng.33 Kevin Bracken, Eng.40 Michael Brennan, Lad.4 Peter Brennan, Res.4 Cpt. Daniel Brethel, Lad.24 (D) Cpt. Patrick Brown, Lad.3 Andrew Brunn, Lad.5 (D) Cpt. Vincent Brunton, Lad.105 F.M. Ronald Bucca Greg Buck, Eng.201 Cpt. William Burke Jr., Eng.21 A.C. Donald Burns, Cmd. Ctr. John Burnside, Lad.20 Thomas Butler, Sqd.1 Patrick Byrne, Lad.101 C George Cain, Lad.7 Salvatore Calabro, Lad.101 Cpt. Frank Callahan, Lad.35 Michael Cammarata, Lad.11 Brian Cannizzaro, Lad.101 Dennis Carey, Hmc.1 Michael Carlo, Eng.230 Michael Carroll, Lad.3 Peter Carroll, Sqd.1 (D) Thomas Casoria, Eng.22 Michael Cawley, Lad.136 Vernon Cherry, Lad.118 Nicholas Chiofalo, Eng.235 John Chipura, Eng.219 Michael Clarke, Lad.2 Steven Coakley, Eng.217 Tarel Coleman, Sqd.252 John Collins, Lad.25 Robert Cordice, Sqd.1 Ruben Correa, Eng.74 James Coyle, Lad.3 Robert Crawford, Safety Lt. John Crisci, H.M. B.C. Dennis Cross, Bat.57 (D) Thomas Cullen III, Sqd. 41 Robert Curatolo, Lad.16 (D) D Lt. Edward D'Atri, Sqd.1 Michael D'Auria, Eng.40 Scott Davidson, Lad.118 Edward Day, Lad.11 B.C. Thomas DeAngelis, Bat. 8 Manuel Delvalle, Eng.5 Martin DeMeo, H.M. 1 David DeRubbio, Eng.226 Lt. Andrew Desperito, Eng.1 (D) B.C. Dennis Devlin, Bat.9 Gerard Dewan, Lad.3 George DiPasquale, Lad.2 Lt. Kevin Donnelly, Lad.3 Lt. Kevin Dowdell, Res.4 B.C. Raymond Downey, Soc. Gerard Duffy, Lad.21 E Cpt. Martin Egan, Jr., Div.15 (D) Michael Elferis, Eng.22 Francis Esposito, Eng.235 Lt. Michael Esposito, Sqd.1 Robert Evans, Eng.33 F B.C. John Fanning, H.O. Cpt. Thomas Farino, Eng.26 Terrence Farrell, Res.4 Cpt. Joseph Farrelly, Div.1 Dep. Comm. William Feehan, (D) Lee Fehling, Eng.235 Alan Feinberg, Bat.9 Michael Fiore, Res.5 Lt. John Fischer, Lad.20 Andre Fletcher, Res.5 John Florio, Eng.214 Lt. Michael Fodor, Lad.21 Thomas Foley, Res.3 David Fontana, Sqd.1 Robert Foti, Lad.7 Andrew Fredericks, Sqd.18 Lt. Peter Freund, Eng.55 G Thomas Gambino Jr., Res.3 Chief of Dept. Peter Ganci, Jr. (D) Lt. Charles Garbarini, Bat.9 Thomas Gardner, Hmc.1 Matthew Garvey, Sqd.1 Bruce Gary, Eng.40 Gary Geidel, Res.1 B.C. Edward Geraghty, Bat.9 Dennis Germain, Lad.2 Lt. Vincent Giammona, Lad.5 James Giberson, Lad.35 Ronnie Gies, Sqd.288 Paul Gill, Eng.54 Lt. John Ginley, Eng.40 Jeffrey Giordano, Lad.3 John Giordano, Hmc.1 Keith Glascoe, Lad.21 James Gray, Lad.20 B.C. Joseph Grzelak, Bat.48 Jose Guadalupe, Eng.54 Lt. Geoffrey Guja, Bat.43 Lt. Joseph Gullickson, Lad.101 H David Halderman, Sqd.18 Lt. Vincent Halloran, Lad.8 Robert Hamilton, Sqd.41 Sean Hanley, Lad.20 (D) Thomas Hannafin, Lad.5 Dana Hannon, Eng.26 Daniel Harlin, Lad.2 Lt. Harvey Harrell, Res.5 Lt. Stephen Harrell, Bat.7 Cpt. Thomas Haskell, Jr., Div.15 Timothy Haskell, Sqd.18 (D) Cpt. Terence Hatton, Res.1 Michael Haub, Lad.4 Lt. Michael Healey, Sqd.41 John Hefferman, Lad.11 Ronnie Henderson, Eng.279 Joseph Henry, Lad.21 William Henry, Res.1 (D) Thomas Hetzel, Lad.13 Cpt. Brian Hickey, Res.4 Lt. Timothy Higgins, S.O.C. Jonathan Hohmann, Hmc.1 Thomas Holohan, Eng.6 Joseph Hunter, Sqd.288 Cpt. Walter Hynes, Lad.13 (D) I Jonathan Ielpi, Sqd.288 Cpt. Frederick Ill Jr., Lad.2 J William Johnston, Eng.6 Andrew Jordan, Lad.132 Karl Joseph, Eng.207 Lt. Anthony Jovic, Bat.47 Angel Juarbe Jr., Lad.12 Mychal Judge, Chaplain (D) K Vincent Kane, Eng.22 B.C. Charles Kasper, S.O.C. Paul Keating, Lad.5 Richard Kelly Jr., Lad.11 Thomas R. Kelly, Lad.15 Thomas W. Kelly, Lad.105 Thomas Kennedy, Lad.101 Lt. Ronald Kerwin, Sqd.288 Michael Kiefer, Lad.132 Robert King Jr., Eng.33 Scott Kopytko, Lad.15 William Krukowski, Lad.21 Kenneth Kumpel, Lad.25 Thomas Kuveikis, Sqd.252 L David LaForge, Lad.20 William Lake, Res.2 Robert Lane, Eng.55 Peter Langone, Sqd.252 Scott Larsen, Lad.15 Lt. Joseph Leavey, Lad.15 Neil Leavy, Eng.217 Daniel Libretti, Res.2 Carlos Lillo, Paramedic Robert Linnane, Lad.20 Michael Lynch, Eng.40 Michael Lynch, Lad.4 Michael Lyons, Sqd.41 Patrick Lyons, Sqd.252 M Joseph Maffeo, Lad.101 William Mahoney, Res 4 Joseph Maloney, Lad.3 (D) B.C. Joseph Marchbanks Jr, Bat.12 Lt. Charles Margiotta, Bat.22 Kenneth Marino, Res.1 John Marshall, Eng.23 Lt. Peter Martin, Res.2 Lt. Paul Martini, Eng.23 Joseph Mascali, T.S.U. 2 Keithroy Maynard, Eng.33 Brian McAleese, Eng.226 John McAvoy, Lad.3 Thomas McCann, Bat.8 Lt. William McGinn, Sqd.18 B.C. William McGovern, Bat.2 (D) Dennis McHugh, Lad.13 Robert McMahon, Lad.20 Robert McPadden, Eng.23 Terence McShane, Lad.101 Timothy McSweeney, Lad.3 Martin McWilliams, Eng.22 (D) Raymond Meisenheimer, Res.3 Charles Mendez, Lad.7 Steve Mercado, Eng.40 Douglas Miller, Res.5 Henry Miller Jr, Lad.105 Robert Minara, Lad.25 Thomas Mingione, Lad.132 Lt. Paul Mitchell, Bat.1 Capt. Louis Modafferi, Res.5 Lt. Dennis Mojica, Res.1 (D) Manuel Mojica, Sqd.18 (D) Carl Molinaro, Lad.2 Michael Montesi, Res.1 Capt. Thomas Moody, Div.1 B.C. John Moran, Bat.49 Vincent Morello, Lad.35 Christopher Mozzillo, Eng.55 Richard Muldowney Jr, Lad.07 Michael Mullan, Lad.12 Dennis Mulligan, Lad.2 Lt. Raymond Murphy, Lad.16 N Lt. Robert Nagel, Eng.58 John Napolitano, Res.2 Peter Nelson, Res.4 Gerard Nevins, Res.1 O Dennis O'Berg, Lad.105 Lt. Daniel O'Callaghan, Lad.4 Douglas Oelschlager, Lad.15 Joseph Ogren, Lad.3 Lt. Thomas O'Hagan, Bat.4 Samuel Oitice, Lad.4 Patrick O'Keefe, Res.1 Capt. William O'Keefe, Div.15 (D) Eric Olsen, Lad.15 Jeffery Olsen, Eng.10 Steven Olson, Lad.3 Kevin O'Rourke, Res.2 Michael Otten, Lad.35 P Jeffery Palazzo, Res.5 B.C. Orio Palmer, Bat.7 Frank Palombo, Lad.105 Paul Pansini, Eng.10 B.C. John Paolillo, Bat.11 James Pappageorge, Eng.23 Robert Parro, Eng.8 Durrell Pearsall, Res.4 Lt. Glenn Perry, Bat.12 Lt. Philip Petti, Bat.7 Lt. Kevin Pfeifer, Eng. 33 Lt. Kenneth Phelan, Bat.32 Christopher Pickford, Eng.201 Shawn Powell, Eng.207 Vincent Princiotta, Lad.7 Kevin Prior, Sqd.252 B.C. Richard Prunty, Bat.2 (D) Q Lincoln Quappe, Res.2 Lt. Michael Quilty, Lad.11 Ricardo Quinn, Paramedic R Leonard Ragaglia, Eng.54 Michael Ragusa, Eng.279 Edward Rall, Res.2 Adam Rand, Sqd.288 Donald Regan, Res.3 Lt. Robert Regan, Lad.118 Christian Regenhard, Lad.131 Kevin Reilly, Eng.207 Lt. Vernon Richard, Lad.7 James Riches, Eng.4 Joseph Rivelli, Lad.25 Michael Roberts, Eng.214 Michael E. Roberts, Lad.35 Anthony Rodriguez, Eng.279 Matthew Rogan, Lad.11 Nicholas Rossomando, Res.5 Paul Ruback, Lad.25 Stephen Russell, Eng.55 Lt. Michael Russo, S.O.C. B.C. Matthew Ryan, Bat.1 S Thomas Sabella, Lad.13 Christopher Santora, Eng.54 John Santore, Lad.5 (D) Gregory Saucedo, Lad.5 Dennis Scauso, H.M. 1 John Schardt, Eng.201 B.C. Fred Scheffold, Bat.12 Thomas Schoales, Eng.4 Gerard Schrang, Res.3 (D) Gregory Sikorsky, Sqd.41 Stephen Siller, Sqd.1 Stanley Smagala Jr, Eng.226 Kevin Smith, H.M. 1 Leon Smith Jr, Lad 118 Robert Spear Jr, Eng.26 Joseph Spor, Res.3 B.C. Lawrence Stack, Bat.50 Cpt. Timothy Stackpole, Div.11 (D) Gregory Stajk, Lad.13 Jeffery Stark, Eng.230 Benjamin Suarez, Lad.21 Daniel Suhr, Eng.216 (D) Lt. Christopher Sullivan, Lad.111 Brian Sweeney, Res.1 T Sean Tallon, Lad.10 Allan Tarasiewicz, Res.5 Paul Tegtmeier, Eng.4 John Tierney, Lad.9 John Tipping II, Lad.4 Hector Tirado Jr, Eng.23 V Richard Vanhine, Sqd.41 Peter Vega, Lad.118 Lawrence Veling, Eng.235 John Vigiano II, Lad.132 Sergio Villanueva, Lad.132 Lawrence Virgilio, Sqd.18 (D) W Lt. Robert Wallace, Eng.205 Jeffery Walz, Lad. 9 Lt. Michael Warchola, Lad.5 (D) Capt. Patrick Waters, S.O.C. Kenneth Watson, Eng.214 Michael Weinberg, Eng.1 (D) David Weiss, Res.1 Timothy Welty, Sqd.288 Eugene Whelan, Eng.230 Edward White, Eng.230 Mark Whitford, Eng.23 Lt. Glenn Wilkinson, Eng.238 (D) B.C. John Williamson, Bat.6 (D) Capt. David Wooley, Lad.4 Y Raymond York, Eng.285 (D) Emotion vice thought. Typical. I doubt those guys were paid $200,000 a year, though. Hopefully, they had good death benefits. If they were paid more than three times what these guys were paid, than yes - they were still overpaid. 
Pay in the public sector should be set at whatever level is required to hire and retain the right qualified people. Wen you start raising it to the point that thousands of fully qualified people seek the jobs and get turned down, you should expect some taxpayers to ask questions. |
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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:15:23 PM EDT
[#5]
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I have great respect for the Fire side of the house... because I've been doing my job long enough to see what they do. I've run calls in the back of a medic since I was a medical student. I've spent time in the field with both medics and FFs, and I'm a former EMS Medical Director. Most of my field expertise is in the Tactical EMS arena, but I've seen enough, including plenty of FFs in the ER, with their associated injuries. The last group of FFs I had were injured dealing with an industrial accident. There were four of them... with steam burns... some of them full-thickness. Full-thickness means skin grafting. Ever seen steam burns? You don't want to. 
I've seen plenty of cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning, and that is no joke. Even when we get it washed out of their system, CO can produce long-term neuro-psychiatric problems. I've worked multi-alarm blazes in the field, out of the back of a medic, watching these guys bust their asses. We'd have these guys stumble over to the back of the medic at the very ragged edge of exhaustion, tachycardic at about 140+, dehydrated as sh*t. We'd cram fluids back into them as fast as we could, get their HR back down, and they'd put their filthy, soaked, stinking bunker gear back on and get right back to knocking down the fire. I also have a retired Batt. Chief in my family from a large metropolitan FD, so over the years I got to hear about it from the other side. I say again: I don't begrudge those guys the money they make on OT, benefits, etc. A lot of you are awfully quick to jump on the class-warfare, envy-driven bandwagon of bashing FFs for what a small, picked-for-the-purposes-of-the-article sample makes. It's not representative of the average FF, and you should know better, particularly since it's been pointed out any number of times in this thread. Some of you are just the kind of voters the Democrat Party loves. Class warfare? Public sector employees are not a "class." At least, they didn't used to be. its not about whether that is representative of the average firefighter - it's that many of you here seem to think it should be, seem to think any questioning of firefighter pay is somehow un-American, and some have argued they should be paid even more. We are presented with the bullshit option of either accept $200,000/year firefighters, or hire day laborers off the street. This is a laughably false dichotomy. |
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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:18:29 PM EDT
[#6]
And if the military decided to deliberately undersatff cdrtain units because it would be cheaper to just make those guys work OT... sorry, extra tours/missions, rather than just recruiting and training more qualified men? Do you think they would deserve the extra pay for the extra work? You guys are arguing about a situation which you really don't know much about.
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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:21:07 PM EDT
[#7]
typing on a phone is awful. :(
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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:29:35 PM EDT
[#8]
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You know, it's funny...for YEARS those in the "Private Sector" used to laugh at those of us who Work PD and FD jobs... "Crappy salaries, risk your ass for strangers, Stupid hours" and a host of other little sniggering things..NOW that the economy is where it is, Suddenly we've gone from "Morons who couldnt hack it in MY field of ___________" to "You assholes with a sense of Entitlement". Oh well Good for me, Sucks to be YOU. I make DAMNED good money, and Im going to be retiring in just under 3 years at age 46, and im going to ENJOY EVERY DAMNED MINUTE OF IT all the MORE for thewhiny little cunts who hate me for what i chose to do. (NOT you Florida BTW) Cue the fucking WHAAAAAAAAAAmbulance. hahahaha!!! /thread Where are the dollars paying your pension to retire at age 46, and for the next 25-30 years coming from? The continuing efforts of your brethern firefighters to contribute to the GDP of the economy and resultant growth? I am honestly curious where it comes from, how cost effective it is in terms of property value saved, lives directly saved (burning building rescues) and how that helps people, and the economy. What is the logic behind rolling a pumper truck to every single EMS call, other than to burn fuel and justify the FFs jobs? Now EMS/ALS on the other hand, are running calls constantly. I got no problem with tax money being spent to provide those services, they are used, and constantly. Engines run EMS calls because America is fucking fat. We had two of our six medics hurt in the past year while moving patients. One was back to work in three months. The other still isn't back eight months later and may never be back. |
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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:30:47 PM EDT
[#9]
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I have great respect for the Fire side of the house... because I've been doing my job long enough to see what they do. I've run calls in the back of a medic since I was a medical student. I've spent time in the field with both medics and FFs, and I'm a former EMS Medical Director. Most of my field expertise is in the Tactical EMS arena, but I've seen enough, including plenty of FFs in the ER, with their associated injuries. The last group of FFs I had were injured dealing with an industrial accident. There were four of them... with steam burns... some of them full-thickness. Full-thickness means skin grafting. Ever seen steam burns? You don't want to.
I've seen plenty of cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning, and that is no joke. Even when we get it washed out of their system, CO can produce long-term neuro-psychiatric problems. I've worked multi-alarm blazes in the field, out of the back of a medic, watching these guys bust their asses. We'd have these guys stumble over to the back of the medic at the very ragged edge of exhaustion, tachycardic at about 140+, dehydrated as sh*t. We'd cram fluids back into them as fast as we could, get their HR back down, and they'd put their filthy, soaked, stinking bunker gear back on and get right back to knocking down the fire. I also have a retired Batt. Chief in my family from a large metropolitan FD, so over the years I got to hear about it from the other side. I say again: I don't begrudge those guys the money they make on OT, benefits, etc. A lot of you are awfully quick to jump on the class-warfare, envy-driven bandwagon of bashing FFs for what a small, picked-for-the-purposes-of-the-article sample makes. It's not representative of the average FF, and you should know better, particularly since it's been pointed out any number of times in this thread. Some of you are just the kind of voters the Democrat Party loves. Class warfare? Public sector employees are not a "class." At least, they didn't used to be. its not about whether that is representative of the average firefighter - it's that many of you here seem to think it should be, seem to think any questioning of firefighter pay is somehow un-American, and some have argued they should be paid even more. We are presented with the bullshit option of either accept $200,000/year firefighters, or hire day laborers off the street. This is a laughably false dichotomy. 200K is not the norm, you are using bad info. Question away. Trust me, I have questions too. |
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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:35:29 PM EDT
[#10]
We are just that awesome!
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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:52:33 PM EDT
[#11]
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Pay in the public sector should be set at whatever level is required to hire and retain the right qualified people. Wen you start raising it to the point that thousands of fully qualified people seek the jobs and get turned down, you should expect some taxpayers to ask questions. It took me 4 years of testing to get hired, and when I did I took a 23K dollar cut in pay.. The list I was hired off of had around 1800 people show up for 45 jobs. By the end of the testing process there were approx 150 eligible applicants. Just because several thousand people show up for a test doesn't mean they are all qualified. While I agree that some aspects of this situation should be looked at (HIRE MORE FF) I hardly think that you are the one with all of the answers. One of the problems is that the average citizen gets a bit miffed when they think that all FFs make 200K / year. I dont blame them, but the fact is those figures are just not true. The average citizen doesn't care if the CCFD budget is 50M or 550M, it tends to be an abstract number. All they care about in that regard is if the dept is under budget. What they can relate to is individual salary, and when they think each firefighters take home pay is 200K + then the shit will hit the fan (and rightly so I might add). There are about 650 paid FFs on the county, my guess is that 620 of them made less than 200K last year. A little more food for thought.... "It appears we have appointed our worst generals to command forces, and our most gifted and brilliant to edit newspapers! In fact, I discovered by reading newspapers that these editor/geniuses plainly saw all my strategic defects from the start, yet failed to inform me until it was too late. Accordingly, I'm readily willing to yield my command to these obviously superior intellects, and I'll, in turn, do my best for the Cause by writing editorials - after the fact." - attributed to ROBERT E. LEE, 1863 (unverified)
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Posted: 2/12/2010 2:26:14 AM EDT
[#12]
20 minutes after my shift started last night, got dispatched to a structure fire.
Home, with a fire in the attached garage. By the time I got there the FD was fighting the fire, and had it put out shortly after. They saved most of the garage, the 3 cars in the garage, and the 250-300K house. So the FD saved the homewoner about 200-250K in property with their response. Where was the guy that said the local FD hadn't saved any houses................. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 4:13:58 AM EDT
[#13]
I want all the Firefighter haters out there to know that I just got home safe and sound from a 24hr overtime shift. Thanks goodness that our UNION LOCAL 416 has fought hard to make sure we have minimum staffing standards.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 4:46:09 AM EDT
[#14]
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You know, it's funny...for YEARS those in the "Private Sector" used to laugh at those of us who Work PD and FD jobs... "Crappy salaries, risk your ass for strangers, Stupid hours" and a host of other little sniggering things..NOW that the economy is where it is, Suddenly we've gone from "Morons who couldnt hack it in MY field of ___________" to "You assholes with a sense of Entitlement". Oh well Good for me, Sucks to be YOU. I make DAMNED good money, and Im going to be retiring in just under 3 years at age 46, and im going to ENJOY EVERY DAMNED MINUTE OF IT all the MORE for thewhiny little cunts who hate me for what i chose to do. (NOT you Florida BTW) Cue the fucking WHAAAAAAAAAAmbulance. hahahaha!!! /thread Where are the dollars paying your pension to retire at age 46, and for the next 25-30 years coming from? The continuing efforts of your brethern firefighters to contribute to the GDP of the economy and resultant growth? I am honestly curious where it comes from, how cost effective it is in terms of property value saved, lives directly saved (burning building rescues) and how that helps people, and the economy. What is the logic behind rolling a pumper truck to every single EMS call, other than to burn fuel and justify the FFs jobs? Now EMS/ALS on the other hand, are running calls constantly. I got no problem with tax money being spent to provide those services, they are used, and constantly. I don't have a dog in this fight yet. I work in the private sector. I just remember all the threads of the past making fun of the quality of firefighters and police and attributing it to the low pay......... now arfcom has placed it's sights on their pay. i find that truely ironic and funny. AJK07734 just worded it better. I see no problem with the pay they are getting. I would rather my tax dollars go to these hard working people than to keep funding worthless rec centers for the homies to stab and shoot each other in. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 4:58:59 AM EDT
[#15]
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Do you want dedicated professionals showing up to save you or day laborers who were sent to the fire house? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Oh gee, maybe the military should get paid $300,000 a year. They are just as professional, their training is far more extensive and their lives at far more risk. Besides, they don't sit around all day eating doughnuts and play cards until there's a fire. Its not that I don't appreciate what they do but $200,000 a year for a fire fighter is just ripping off the taxpayers pure and simple. I bet there are plenty of people willing to do the same thing for $50,000 a year and do just as good a job. dude stop you really don't know what you are talking about. See my other posts I am a full time firefighter but I am also an NCO in the Army and will honestly tell you the military has some of the highest caliber and bravest people. period. We also have dregs that do the stupidest most shortsighted least profesional things you can imagine, guys that think video games and movies have prepared them for life and make the most selfish decisions I have ever seen. If you join the military and have your head on straight you can go far and lead a prosperous life. If you get by doing the bare minimum or less you may still find yourself promoted to some degree. I work with some Firefighters who do stupid stuff too, but by and far the most profesional and self motivated group I work with in my home town not working for Uncle Sam. Think about the average soldier and the average firefighter and tell me which one you want comeing into your home in the middle of the night when your old lady or kid is sick. Go on you tube and check out the shenanigans that either group posts if you want more of a behavior sample to base your decision on than what you currently have. base salary for senior firefighters in most career departments is $50k-$60k guys are putting in the time and busting thier asses to exceed that. You are just a whiney FF. The subject is about taxpayers being ripped off paying $200,000 to a public servant which is way above the average salary, overtime or not. Yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I'm ex-military as well and have two sons in the Army. One was also a former FF. We all work hard for a living but you and I both know you are doing what you do because you love it and not for the money. If pay was based of the danger you willingly subject yourself to the Fire Chief would be paid a lot less than the line guys. Not so is it? In reality the danger of the job is not the major factor in determining salary. It should always be about the free market and the truth is there would be no shortage of quality police or firefighters if they were paid a fourth that. The average worker makes $40,000 but government employees average $70,000. This firefighter made $200,000. It is also obvious that many firefighters in his city made less. I really don't give a shit what you say, the taxpayers are footing the bill and we are tired of being told we have to pay for public servant salaries that are way out of line with the market place. We would like to make that much too but you guys are sucking our wallets and have the gaul to wonder why we don't get on our knees and kiss your ass. I got news for you, kiss our collective asses for your pay check, it came from us. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:01:12 AM EDT
[#16]
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Dave wants all Union workers to lose their jobs. He said so in the Missoula Montana Paper mill shutting down thread. Sounds like a deal to me. Maybe we would have fewer jobs being exported overseas if the unions didn't exist. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:02:43 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm more worried about those Justice of the Peace making 230K.
Around here those guys make 20K or less. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:11:14 AM EDT
[#18]
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I have yet to see the FD save one house or business in 30 years... Send me your address so I can tell the local Fire Dept not to even bother coming out to even try to save you, your family or house ok. That right there is the attitude of the civil service sector that i was looking for. We know your the hero and were we are just common idiots.and we should be so thankfull for you. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:15:33 AM EDT
[#19]
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And if the military decided to deliberately undersatff cdrtain units because it would be cheaper to just make those guys work OT... sorry, extra tours/missions, rather than just recruiting and training more qualified men? Do you think they would deserve the extra pay for the extra work? You guys are arguing about a situation which you really don't know much about. The military IS "understaffed" for the current missions...thats why the deployment tempo has been so bad. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:19:38 AM EDT
[#20]
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I have yet to see the FD save one house or business in 30 years... Send me your address so I can tell the local Fire Dept not to even bother coming out to even try to save you, your family or house ok. That right there is the attitude of the civil service sector that i was looking for. We know your the hero and were we are just common idiots.and we should be so thankfull for you. Those words never came out of my mouth but if all you want to do is talk shit about firefighters and police officers, by all means, dont call if you think we do such a horrible job. Just let us know how it goes for you ok. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:27:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have yet to see the FD save one house or business in 30 years... Send me your address so I can tell the local Fire Dept not to even bother coming out to even try to save you, your family or house ok. That right there is the attitude of the civil service sector that i was looking for. We know your the hero and were we are just common idiots.and we should be so thankfull for you. It is tough to stay positive when you have a group of people bashing your profession saying how easy it is and that you don't deserve money because people do it for free etc. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:32:38 AM EDT
[#22]
they will be the first to bitch when we cant get there in a timely manner due to under staffing
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:33:32 AM EDT
[#23]
Those of you begrudging entertainers in the same breath as praising FFs are retarded. It looks like they both earn what they make. It may suck but the entertainers (actors, singers, athletes) bring in 80,000 people to a venue and millions of viewers week after week. Advertisers pay good money for that kind of exposure. That means compensating the talent to keep them around. If you don't like it then don't watch or talk about it. You could even try your hand at it too.
They both earn their keep (look at the break downs in the link and thread.) Don't just go by the first number you see as it is highly deceptive. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 6:40:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I got news for you, kiss our collective asses for your pay check, it came from us. Well, actually... I live (and pay taxes) in the city I work in. I guess that makes me "self-employed". And you know what? Tomorrow, I'm giving myself a raise!
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Posted: 2/12/2010 7:35:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pay in the public sector should be set at whatever level is required to hire and retain the right qualified people. Wen you start raising it to the point that thousands of fully qualified people seek the jobs and get turned down, you should expect some taxpayers to ask questions. It took me 4 years of testing to get hired, and when I did I took a 23K dollar cut in pay.. The list I was hired off of had around 1800 people show up for 45 jobs. By the end of the testing process there were approx 150 eligible applicants. Just because several thousand people show up for a test doesn't mean they are all qualified. While I agree that some aspects of this situation should be looked at (HIRE MORE FF) I hardly think that you are the one with all of the answers. One of the problems is that the average citizen gets a bit miffed when they think that all FFs make 200K / year. I dont blame them, but the fact is those figures are just not true. The average citizen doesn't care if the CCFD budget is 50M or 550M, it tends to be an abstract number. All they care about in that regard is if the dept is under budget. What they can relate to is individual salary, and when they think each firefighters take home pay is 200K + then the shit will hit the fan (and rightly so I might add). There are about 650 paid FFs on the county, my guess is that 620 of them made less than 200K last year. A little more food for thought.... "It appears we have appointed our worst generals to command forces, and our most gifted and brilliant to edit newspapers! In fact, I discovered by reading newspapers that these editor/geniuses plainly saw all my strategic defects from the start, yet failed to inform me until it was too late. Accordingly, I'm readily willing to yield my command to these obviously superior intellects, and I'll, in turn, do my best for the Cause by writing editorials - after the fact." - attributed to ROBERT E. LEE, 1863 (unverified)
I'm struggling to figure out why you seem to have positioned us as being on opposite sides of an argument. If you agree that $200,000 is too much to be paying firefighters, or of you disagree with the people here who have said that was not enough, etc. we are not in any disagreement. The simple fact is many cities, counties, and states, have screwed up compensation / overtime systems where some people make excessive pay and much of that carries over to ludicrous pensions. This is not sustainable, and is only a phenomenon of the last 20 years or so, that I can tell. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 7:45:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If only I liked to type. 
Edit: FYI, I fell just a TAD short of the 200K mark....by almost 100K. I gotcha covered, babe. 
Although I don't know why.... you're still in the doghouse. 
What'd he do now this time? |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 7:50:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If only I liked to type.
Edit: FYI, I fell just a TAD short of the 200K mark....by almost 100K. I gotcha covered, babe.
Although I don't know why.... you're still in the doghouse.
It COULD be worse darlin...he could have had a Lablemaker too...........  (RIP DrFrige  ) It;s funny, for all of the bashing of the Newspapers and media when it comes to anything related to guns..as SOON as its somethign that is critical of cops and now firemen, all of a sudden it's Holy Writ from the hand of the Allmighty himself.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:15:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
And if the military decided to deliberately undersatff cdrtain units because it would be cheaper to just make those guys work OT... sorry, extra tours/missions, rather than just recruiting and training more qualified men? Do you think they would deserve the extra pay for the extra work? You guys are arguing about a situation which you really don't know much about. The military IS "understaffed" for the current missions...thats why the deployment tempo has been so bad. They don't get overtime pay either. Today is my one son's second day off in a row in three months and that was only because of heavy snow closing Camp Shelby. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:20:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted: I got news for you, kiss our collective asses for your pay check, it came from us.
Well, actually... I live (and pay taxes) in the city I work in. I guess that makes me "self-employed". And you know what? Tomorrow, I'm giving myself a raise! Congratulations, you can pat yourself on the back for another lie. I highly doubt you can claim self employment unless you pay more taxes than you make. Gee, thats a good one.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:28:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: But seriously, you have to break down the Salaries..
91K+ 53K+48K = 192K not 210K That was copied and pasted from the Website, I didn't do the math |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:28:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Doesn't seem that anyone gives a rip about fiscal sustainability. Neither did the UAW.
Oh well... |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:30:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I got news for you, kiss our collective asses for your pay check, it came from us.
Well, actually... I live (and pay taxes) in the city I work in. I guess that makes me "self-employed". And you know what? Tomorrow, I'm giving myself a raise! Congratulations, you can pat yourself on the back for another lie. I highly doubt you can claim self employment unless you pay more taxes than you make. Gee, thats a good one.
Smart and a sense of humor! |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:48:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Do the military guys earn extra for being deployed, as opposed to when they're stationed somewhere here in the States (able to work 'normal' shifts/duties, and go home at night)?Quoted: And if the military decided to deliberately undersatff cdrtain units because it would be cheaper to just make those guys work OT... sorry, extra tours/missions, rather than just recruiting and training more qualified men? Do you think they would deserve the extra pay for the extra work? You guys are arguing about a situation which you really don't know much about. The military IS "understaffed" for the current missions...thats why the deployment tempo has been so bad. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:48:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I got news for you, kiss our collective asses for your pay check, it came from us. Well, actually... I live (and pay taxes) in the city I work in. I guess that makes me "self-employed". And you know what? Tomorrow, I'm giving myself a raise! Congratulations, you can pat yourself on the back for another lie. I highly doubt you can claim self employment unless you pay more taxes than you make. Gee, thats a good one. Smart and a sense of humor!  Thanks... at least someone got it.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:50:29 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Unions? It amazes me that PUBLIC SERVANTS need a union. Does this mean governments, the entity that HIRES public servants, is not to be trusted. Yes, that's absolutely what it means. Even FDR was against public unions. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:53:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pay in the public sector should be set at whatever level is required to hire and retain the right qualified people. Wen you start raising it to the point that thousands of fully qualified people seek the jobs and get turned down, you should expect some taxpayers to ask questions. It took me 4 years of testing to get hired, and when I did I took a 23K dollar cut in pay.. The list I was hired off of had around 1800 people show up for 45 jobs. By the end of the testing process there were approx 150 eligible applicants. Just because several thousand people show up for a test doesn't mean they are all qualified. While I agree that some aspects of this situation should be looked at (HIRE MORE FF) I hardly think that you are the one with all of the answers. One of the problems is that the average citizen gets a bit miffed when they think that all FFs make 200K / year. I dont blame them, but the fact is those figures are just not true. The average citizen doesn't care if the CCFD budget is 50M or 550M, it tends to be an abstract number. All they care about in that regard is if the dept is under budget. What they can relate to is individual salary, and when they think each firefighters take home pay is 200K + then the shit will hit the fan (and rightly so I might add). There are about 650 paid FFs on the county, my guess is that 620 of them made less than 200K last year. A little more food for thought.... "It appears we have appointed our worst generals to command forces, and our most gifted and brilliant to edit newspapers! In fact, I discovered by reading newspapers that these editor/geniuses plainly saw all my strategic defects from the start, yet failed to inform me until it was too late. Accordingly, I'm readily willing to yield my command to these obviously superior intellects, and I'll, in turn, do my best for the Cause by writing editorials - after the fact." - attributed to ROBERT E. LEE, 1863 (unverified) I'm struggling to figure out why you seem to have positioned us as being on opposite sides of an argument. If you agree that $200,000 is too much to be paying firefighters, or of you disagree with the people here who have said that was not enough, etc. we are not in any disagreement. The simple fact is many cities, counties, and states, have screwed up compensation / overtime systems where some people make excessive pay and much of that carries over to ludicrous pensions. This is not sustainable, and is only a phenomenon of the last 20 years or so, that I can tell. Overtime does not carry over to pensions. Mandatory call-backs do, but overtime shifts (where one can sign up voluntarily to fill in) does not. $200K *would* be too much to pay a firefighter as a base wage. Those relative few who are pulling down that much are those who voluntarily work ungodly amounts of overtime, plus have several optional certifications on top of their base wages. If there weren't those who wanted to sign up for OT, then in order to keep minimum staffing standards, they WOULD have to make mandatory call backs, and that would then potentially count towards future pensions. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 10:54:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If only I liked to type. Edit: FYI, I fell just a TAD short of the 200K mark....by almost 100K. I gotcha covered, babe. Although I don't know why.... you're still in the doghouse. What'd he do now this time? http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=75&t=998353 
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Posted: 2/12/2010 11:12:12 AM EDT
[#38]
I had wanted to type a long winded response to many points in this thread. Most of what I want to say, has already been said.
I make about 75 K (before taxes) a year as a 12 year veteran, Firefighter/Paramedic, Engine Driver, Swiftwater Rescue Technician and Swiftwater Boat Operator. We work in a 24 on 48 off schedule which in a 3 week period averages to 48 a week(one of the three weeks is a 72 hour week, with no OT). We get OT when we are called in, someone calls out sick or takes a vacation. You can't fill my position with a Probie. I don't do it for the money, I don't do it for the medals. I do it for the look on the wife's face when I resuscitate her husband, or when my crew pulls people out of their houses when an island community is underwater with 8 foot swells breaking their windows during a hurricane. I have missed Christmas', birthdays, weddings and some of my two girls "Firsts" because I was ON THE JOB. I am proud of what I make and thank the community I serve for what my benefits will be when I retire. I am not, nor will I ever be a Millionaire because I am a firefighter. I have seen many beaten down and broken men and women after the JOB has used them up and spit them out. The public will never remember them but we do with the pensions we give them. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here. But we must never forget, what they did here-Abraham Lincoln "The Gettysburg Address" |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 12:02:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But seriously, you have to break down the Salaries..
91K+ 53K+48K = 192K not 210K That was copied and pasted from the Website, I didn't do the math
I know, your math is unsullied. But, I do wonder about the accuracy of their numbers when they don't add up. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 12:09:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have yet to see the FD save one house or business in 30 years... Send me your address so I can tell the local Fire Dept not to even bother coming out to even try to save you, your family or house ok. That right there is the attitude of the civil service sector that i was looking for. We know your the hero and were we are just common idiots.and we should be so thankfull for you. It is tough to stay positive when you have a group of people bashing your profession saying how easy it is and that you don't deserve money because people do it for free etc. People who keep saying firefighters, when the number is 1 battalion chief, not every single battalion chief, or firefighter. It looks more like a career firefighter, at the top of the pay scale gets 80-85K per year. The battalio chiefs get 110-120K per year. The guy doing the most complaining about it in this thread is doing it from inside a government built glass house, pulling down 128K per year, on his base pay+ benefits. The difference is the CCFD pays overtime, the Army doesn't. Locally we had a bus driver make 159K, he just drove 80 hours a week, every week,......... |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 3:32:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Here is how I look at it. Last check from the FD was about $1125 for working 96 hours. $11.54 is labeled as "hazzard pay" on my pay stub so I consider myself to be a very overpaied janitor and a severly underpaied fireman, but it all works out in the end.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 3:34:50 PM EDT
[#42]
That is fair for what they do, now pro athletes on the other hand get paid way too much.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 4:14:53 PM EDT
[#43]
Susan Roske ATTORNEY IV $229,447.12 Patrick Rafter FIRE FIGHTER II (J) $203,893.47
Attorney IV at $229K, plus benefits, plus pension (probably 70-80% after 20) !!!!!! WTF Firefighter II at $203K, plus, plus!!!!!! Shitcan them and get some folks in there at half price I think there's a large pool to choose from. Seems like government costs way too much and this is one of the reasons. Too much pay for too little work and benefits way out of proportion. Used to be you worked for government for less pay but good benefits. Now they have the best of everything and we're footing the bill. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:15:14 PM EDT
[#44]
As I finished typing the below reponses, I realized - has anyone seen the OP since an hour after this thread was posted yesterday?
Talk about "stir the pot and run away". Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Amazingly, in before either E22Capt or Bed_Head; both of whom would open up the OPs head like a Pez dispenser and shit down his neck with some reality about Las Vegas FF salaries. <evil laugh> MUwahhahaha....  Hey, they're two of my favorite people on ARFCOM, and I respect them immensely. Myself as well - I eagerly anticipated their input. Mixed responses below, as I'm milking the taxpayers as we speak. A businessman is not extorting the local community Extorting implies coercion, does it not? Most states prohibit public sector employees from striking - the one form of "extortion" that they could engage in. Additionally, the unions and departments don't set their own salaries, they're agreed to by the local councils, usually after negotiations. some entrenched unions have really created a racket for themselves FWIW most A/C's are management, not labor, so thus not union, so I guess all the dollars for the brass hats negates that point. OT compensation (compulsed via the FLSA) applies to all non-salaried employees who work more than their usual work week, doesn't it? So unions don't negotiate pensions? The pension plans adopted by most locals (that I'm aware of) were written reflections of the ones already in force at the time the department organized, since in many cases of public sector employees, pensions are a matter of state law, not private negotiations. Why, lookie here: http://www.nvpers.org/ Counties and Related Agencies: Churchill County Churchill County Vounteer Firemen Clark County Hey, that one looks familiar. For more information regarding PERS please refer to Nevada Revised Statutes Chapter 286 Guess things aren't that different out west after all. Public sector employees are not a "class." No, but shreiking about the differences of income is considered class warfare, regardless of it's source. You have more than me, therefore I hate you. Sounds like one from the left wing playbook. You are just a whiney FF Nice way to initiate a discussion and show you have an open mind. If pay was based of the danger you willingly subject yourself to the Fire Chief would be paid a lot less than the line guys Except for the fact that one of the little talked about things that come with the extra bugles is the legal responsibility for people at an incident, be they firefighters or "civilians", as well as a liability should the incident go awry. You also are responsible for the FF's training, conduct at the station and while enroute to and from calls. And given the size of the FD in question? We're not talking 5 guys and a spotted dog on each shift where a busy day is 2 calls. The average worker makes $40,000 but government employees average $70,000. Failing to mention that that average includes congress and the various czars and hundreds of members of the Senior Executive Service - ie the professional bureaucrats that actually run the various agencies (starting at $145,700 - click here for the SES pay scales), and is not, in fact, the average of the slop slinger at the mess hall or the phone answerer at the VA who works for GS wages - seems disingenuous. This firefighter made $200,000. It is also obvious that many firefighters in his city made less. Well, being the highest paid firefighter, I think it's logical to say they all made less, don't you? But as the link provides, much of that was OT - which he worked to obtain, and the benefits package should be discounted as it applies to all employees of that unit. FWIW, using a workup that follows our contract, with a base hours per annum of 2597 (1 Kelly/FLSA day every 9 shifts) FF LeFevre's hourly is $33.35. For him to earn that $77,840 in OT he worked roughly 97 24 hour shifts of OT (or some combination adding up to 2,334 hours) Now consider that a 40 hour employee's hours of work is 2080, not counting any vacation (40x52). LeFevre worked more OT hours than most folks work for their regular 9-to-5 jobs. As others here have said - wanna cut down on the OT? Hire more FF's. While it's counterintuitive, it does reduce OT expenses. But then you'll pay more in training and benefits, and we'll have a new  thread tomorrow.Quoted: Just an FYI folks. Now I don't personally know this to be the case in Las Vegas, but I have been directly involved in similar matters. Anytime annual salary lists are disclosed for various municipal employees, it is often the case that firefighters or police officers are strangely at the top of the list. It is mis-leading in part because the salary you see is not only for earnings in the year reported. The top earners that year usually have retired that year and also take with them accrued vacation or sick time not used, in the form of pay at the end of their service. BTW nicely said - I missed that yesterday.   Hey now - you leave that logic sh*t outta here - this is General Discussion - the forum where liberlaism is exemplified on ARFCOM - ie: thought not required. Those disbursement lists also fail to mention that for all we know FF LeFevre worked 1,500 hours at the Metro Convention Center doing first aid at concerts - pay which was fully reimbursed to his department by the Convention Center, but which isn;t indicated under his disbursement amount. Naw, couldn't be. Back to the grind: I really don't give a shit what you say Ahh, the old General Discussion statement of blanket dismissal. Well, that works two ways, now doesn't it? Sounds like a deal to me. Maybe we would have fewer jobs being exported overseas if the unions didn't exist Yeah - so to continue that corollary we should see a lot of imported firefighters speaking mandarin and pumping water through mediocre quality equipment for a fraction of the price? Despite what the he man woman haters knee-jerk union hater's club here thinks, Service unions =/= production unions. As for the folks who complain about lazy or out of shape FF's, imagine working for a chief who put a "stop work" order on our working out at the station. After all, if we pull a muscle working out, it's a worker's comp issue, but if we are killed or disabled due to a stroke or heart attack, we become the property of the pension board. Management did this, not labor. Just as they admitted in front of a federal mediator that our staffing levels were unsafe, not in compliance with any accepted national standard and would eventually result in an injury that would lead to OSHA/IDOL fines and lawsuit settlements or verdicts against them. Their response? So? They were (and sadly are) happy to spend more of the taxpayer's money fighting any of the union proposals by retaining some of the highest paid labor attorneys in the country than they would if they had agreed to the union's initial pay proposal. When I said that our local union formed because of inequitable treatment on the part of management, I wasn't lying, and I have to wonder how many others did so for similar reasons. Unions in the private sector have been on the decline for several years due to little things that involve the worker in having control over their conditions and allowing them to perticipate and buy-in to the success of the company. Unfortunately, for many in the public sector, their oriental role model isn't Soichiro Honda, it's Ghengis Khan... thus the increase in public sector unions during the same time frame. I have to wonder if many of the  anti-union folks have ever encountered some of the politically promoted brain trusts and elected idiots that we have to work for. I would think so - they're part of the same meddlesome bureacracy and incompetent electorate that everyone loves to  .However, in some cases it seems like you've never even met their equivalents in the private sector. May you continue your blissful existences and never experience the "Peter Principle" in person.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:37:52 PM EDT
[#45]
1. These citizens performed lawfully and ethically according to the employment contracts which they entered into; thus, they deserve the compensation specified in that contract. No more, no less.
2. Consider the make up of Clark County, NV over the past 30 years. It has been the fastest growing county for many of those years. Thus, each fire captain and battalion chief has been: recruiting, training, equipping, leading, and developing subordinate leaders to sustain this phenomenal growth rate. 3. As somebody astute has posted on page 5, there are many specialties which need to be acknowledged for their scarcity and value. 4. Consider the make up of Clark County and Las Vegas to understand the huge set of fire fighting, emergency management, and rescue specialties which the department needs to plan for and be trained to respond to: -Huge towers full of half drunk tourists in a traffic jammed urban canyon -Two dams on the river -An air force base where the A/C launch with hung ordnance -A top 30 airport for traffic, much of which is international -A natural gas pipe node -An Interstate running through the city -Distribution centers for petroleum, asphalt, chemicals, and concrete -A major rail line running through the city -A us highway (93? 95?) running through the city -A gateway to Area 51 -A huge power plant in the city, and experimental solar concentrators south of the city -Abandoned shaft mines at the base of every nearby mountain 5. For those still reading, the items listed in point 4 should demonstrate that these departments are doing so much more than spraying down a roof fire and roaring back to the station to pet the dalmation and cook up the special chili. 6. The leaders have a loaded cost equaling that of many professions (engineer, accountant, lawyer). In fact, I think the citizens of Clark County are getting a very favorable value. Any margin which favors the fire captains most likely ensures retention, as expertise in the specialties listed above is most likely in high demand. |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:38:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Hey tango, evver notice it's always the GD whiners about the "Us Vs Them" Shit that are the ones who are actually guilty of it????
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Posted: 2/12/2010 5:41:21 PM EDT
[#47]
I talked with a fire cheif, he said he made 65k the new guys make 25-30k.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 6:33:18 PM EDT
[#48]
I'll drop this off here.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/firefighters-rank-prominently-among-countys-top-wage-earners-62091347.html |
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Posted: 2/12/2010 6:59:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: As I finished typing the below reponses, I realized - has anyone seen the OP since an hour after this thread was posted yesterday? Talk about "stir the pot and run away". Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Amazingly, in before either E22Capt or Bed_Head; both of whom would open up the OPs head like a Pez dispenser and shit down his neck with some reality about Las Vegas FF salaries. <evil laugh> MUwahhahaha.... Hey, they're two of my favorite people on ARFCOM, and I respect them immensely. Myself as well - I eagerly anticipated their input.  I missed these posts, sorry that I didn't post more and open any Pez dispensers now! I didn't even see this thread until it was several pages in, and at that point I figured it was too late to make a difference in the mob. The capt was at work *gasp* and didn't have a chance to see it or do anything until too late as well.  I will say this though, because the capt won't say it.... Discussions like this lately are REALLY rubbing him the wrong way. He's the kind of guy who goes to work, does his job WELL, hardly ever calls off (last I heard, he has more vacation and sick leave banked than anyone in the county, thanks to banking everything for the last 20 years), and hardly ever works overtime. He goes above and beyond on most calls, AND with the training of his crew- in EMS matters and suppression matters. He holds extra certifications, which mean extra training to be done monthly. And after 20 years on the job, he makes WELL under what y'all are talking about because of that. Of course, in 10 years when he retires, he just may be number freaking ONE on that list thanks to his final cash-outs.... and deservedly so. (and believe me, it's cheaper for that sick leave and vacation to be cashed out, than to pay other captains OT to fill it....) He's representative of the vast majority of fire dept employees in the valley. There are a few dozen who LOVE to work as much OT as they can get. Anytime someone calls off sick or takes a vacation day, THEY are the ones who work those slots. THOSE are the ones who are showing up at the tops of those silly and misleading lists. THOSE are the ones that the local media is liking to point at and falsely portray as representative of the majority of FD guys. THOSE are the guys who are so freaking deep in debt now because of their OT income, that they'd lose their homes or trucks if OT dried up. I have no sympathy for those guys. It's stupid to become dependent on OT, no matter what your profession is- public or private sector. As far as I'm concerned, HIRE MORE FIREFIGHTERS. The FD operates consistently UNDER budget, and while hiring more folks might put more people to work, it will also cause increased cost to the taxpayer. More employees would greatly cut down on OT across the board, and that doesn't bother me one bit. It seems that ignorant FD bashers don't want the total cost of the FD's budget to go up (more employees), and they don't want services cut (which means OT is necessary to backfill unit slots to keep them operating), but then go completely ballistic when they see that some firefighters working that OT are pulling in compensation accordingly.  Talk about failing at reasoning. The thing is that I've explained this NUMEROUS times to people around here, and it makes sense once they know. It's just fighting a losing battle when the papers and news stations are spinning stories or giving half truths.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 7:08:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: I'll drop this off here. http://www.lvrj.com/news/firefighters-rank-prominently-among-countys-top-wage-earners-62091347.html So out of 650 employees, only 32 'made' more than $200K. Several of THOSE were guys retiring and receiving final separation pay. Then the article goes on to say that the list is misleading because it lists all the benefits in as 'pay,' even thought it's not. 'Pay is what you put in your pocket.' Sooooo..... really it's saying that almost NO fire dept employees were paid $200K? |
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