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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:32:01 AM EDT
[#1]
A model 94 made prior to 1964.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:34:52 AM EDT
[#2]
In 1964 the manufacturing of the 94 was changed in order to make the firearm less expensive to produce. Generally "pre-64" rifles command a premium price over post-64 rifles. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:37:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
A model 94 made prior to 1964. LOL .............. Should have seen that coming!!!!! 
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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:38:10 AM EDT
[#4]
An overblown construct of desirability
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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:38:42 AM EDT
[#5]
They are built much much better, receivers are thicker etc..The M94 is much better in this variation, I have 2 of them and one post 64 model. There is no plastic on these and are heavier.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:40:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
They are built much much better, receivers are thicker etc..The M94 is much better in this variation, I have 2 of them and one post 64 model. There is no plastic on these and are heavier. Did they have a serial number change than? I guess, I need to go look and find one now, I didnt realize there WAS a difference. How does one know fo sure if I find one? |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:40:41 AM EDT
[#7]
I am no expert(but I do own a 1957 Model94).
1964 is when Winchester changed from a metal trigger group to a trigger group utilizing plastic. Among other slight cost saving manufacturing processes. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:43:16 AM EDT
[#8]
I have to '94s.
One I bought new in 2001 and one that was built in 1906, both 30-30( well...one sys 30 WCF on it). There were several cost cutting changes and manufacturing changes instituted in 64. The two are very similar but the quality of the 1906 is clearly better. Plus my 2001 had that godawfulshittycrossboltsafety added. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 9:59:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: An overblown construct of desirability That is your opinion, that you are entitled to. As is my opinion that you are wrong.  |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 10:03:10 AM EDT
[#10]
My stepdad came across a set(carbine& rifle) of Buffalo Bill Comms. 30-30s that kick like a mule and working the action is a pain in the ass. I think they were made in the late 60s. He gave the rifle to me and the carbine to my brother. I hated the action so much I only shot it around 30 times and it has sat in the safe for 40 years, and will never be used unless its the last resort. 24 inch barrel and heavy as hell.Action stiff as a brick.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 10:10:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By mstennes
Did they have a serial number change than? I guess, I need to go look and find one now, I didnt realize there WAS a difference. How does one know fo sure if I find one? The easiest way to tell is open the lever, pre-64's will have a staked machine screw in the middle of the lever the newer ones have a pin instead. There are three different models of 1894's; pre-64, intermediate and the newest angle eject. The pre-64 has a single leaf mainspring with machine screws holding the carrier in place. The intermediate has a multipul leaf mainspring with a pin holding the carrier in place. The angle eject has a coil mainspring and a pin holding the carrier in place. The intermediate and angle eject are made in Japan, the intermediates usually will have a red tinted receiver. The metal was different on the intermediates' receiver so it screws up the bluing process, if you try to reblue them the bluing turns red over time and half the time it will wipe right off. The only Model 94 worth owning is the pre-64, IMO. If you aren't going with a pre-64 then pick up a Marlin 336. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 10:14:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: He also needs to contact gunbroker.com to see how the rest of the world views the difference bw the two models, and all models of Winchester guns made before the changes were made, ie the Model 70 and Model 12 and so on. Capitalism always determines desireablility, not the individual.Quoted: An overblown construct of desirability That is your opinion, that you are entitled to. As is my opinion that you are wrong. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 10:17:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: They are built much much better, receivers are thicker etc..The M94 is much better in this variation, I have 2 of them and one post 64 model. There is no plastic on these and are heavier. This, also, the pre-64s don't have a tang safety, just as JMB intended. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 10:21:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: An overblown construct of desirability That is your opinion, that you are entitled to. As is my opinion that you are wrong. Yes he is very wrong. One thing I've learned is that arfcom is not a good source for info on pre '64 Winchesters. They are considered "fudd" guns by many here so this really isn't the place to research them. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 10:22:37 AM EDT
[#15]
The cut off was around serial number 2.4 million IIRC
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Posted: 1/24/2010 10:57:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: You are correct, sir.The cut off was around serial number 2.4 million IIRC |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:51:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
He also needs to contact gunbroker.com to see how the rest of the world views the difference bw the two models, and all models of Winchester guns made before the changes were made, ie the Model 70 and Model 12 and so on. Capitalism always determines desireablility, not the individual.
Quoted:
An overblown construct of desirability That is your opinion, that you are entitled to. As is my opinion that you are wrong.
The part in blue, FTMFW. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 11:52:54 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
An overblown construct of desirability That is your opinion, that you are entitled to. As is my opinion that you are wrong.
Make that two .
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:00:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
He also needs to contact gunbroker.com to see how the rest of the world views the difference bw the two models, and all models of Winchester guns made before the changes were made, ie the Model 70 and Model 12 and so on. Capitalism always determines desireablility, not the individual.
Quoted:
An overblown construct of desirability That is your opinion, that you are entitled to. As is my opinion that you are wrong.
NSS they go for more on GB. When the ACR comes out and sells for $4K on Gunbroker, that doesn't mean it's not overblown either. And of course it's an opinion, desirability is subjective, duh. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:20:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
The only Model 94 worth owning is the pre-64, IMO. If you aren't going with a pre-64 then pick up a Marlin 336. Pretty much, although the quality seems to be slipping on some of the newer Marlins I've looked at. Savage 99s are nice too. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:30:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Originally Posted By mstennes
Did they have a serial number change than? I guess, I need to go look and find one now, I didnt realize there WAS a difference. How does one know fo sure if I find one? The easiest way to tell is open the lever, pre-64's will have a staked machine screw in the middle of the lever the newer ones have a pin instead. There are three different models of 1894's; pre-64, intermediate and the newest angle eject. The pre-64 has a single leaf mainspring with machine screws holding the carrier in place. The intermediate has a multipul leaf mainspring with a pin holding the carrier in place. The angle eject has a coil mainspring and a pin holding the carrier in place. The intermediate and angle eject are made in Japan, the intermediates usually will have a red tinted receiver. The metal was different on the intermediates' receiver so it screws up the bluing process, if you try to reblue them the bluing turns red over time and half the time it will wipe right off. The only Model 94 worth owning is the pre-64, IMO. If you aren't going with a pre-64 then pick up a Marlin 336. Wrong, the first 94's made in Japan are the new limited edition releases coming out this year, you may be thinking of the limited edition 92's or 95's. Until they were discontinued a few years ago, the 94's were made in the now closed New Haven plant. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:33:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
A model 94 made prior to THE 1964 CHANGES. Fixed. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 12:35:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are built much much better, receivers are thicker etc..The M94 is much better in this variation, I have 2 of them and one post 64 model. There is no plastic on these and are heavier. Did they have a serial number change than? I guess, I need to go look and find one now, I didnt realize there WAS a difference. How does one know fo sure if I find one? There's a generalization about the approximate range of serial numbers where the changes went into effect. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:20:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: A model 94 made prior to THE 1964 CHANGES. Fixed.  |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:22:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Marlin 336 FTW !!!!
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:24:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Marlin 336 FTW !!!! QFT 
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:31:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Here is the short version. In 1964 Winchester was bought out. The new owner, I think Olin, went through the catalog and eliminated a lot of guns like the Model 12 and instituted cost cutting measures on the remaining models. Before 1964 every piece of a 94 was machined from steel. After that a lot of stampings were used and the receivers were made of sintered steel which is kind of like early MIM. The biggest problems were lifters that broke all the time. Really bad triggers. The fact the receivers could not be blued and crappy wood. By the 80's some quality had come back but still not near what it was before 1964.
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:35:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Here is the short version. In 1964 Winchester was bought out. The new owner, I think Olin, went through the catalog and eliminated a lot of guns like the Model 12 and instituted cost cutting measures on the remaining models. Before 1964 every piece of a 94 was machined from steel. After that a lot of stampings were used and the receivers were made of sintered steel which is kind of like early MIM. The biggest problems were lifters that broke all the time. Really bad triggers. The fact the receivers could not be blued and crappy wood. By the 80's some quality had come back but still not near what it was before 1964. John Olin bought Winchester a few years before the 1964 redesigns. 1931, to be exact. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:35:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
An overblown construct of desirability Really? |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:44:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Marlin 336 FTW !!!! Marlins are fine weapons, but the action on the Winchester is smooth as glass. Thats why I prefer them, the scope mounting abilitly of the Marlin is pointless to me, don't beleive these guns should be scoped. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 1:50:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is the short version. In 1964 Winchester was bought out. The new owner, I think Olin, went through the catalog and eliminated a lot of guns like the Model 12 and instituted cost cutting measures on the remaining models. Before 1964 every piece of a 94 was machined from steel. After that a lot of stampings were used and the receivers were made of sintered steel which is kind of like early MIM. The biggest problems were lifters that broke all the time. Really bad triggers. The fact the receivers could not be blued and crappy wood. By the 80's some quality had come back but still not near what it was before 1964. John Olin bought Winchester a few years before the 1964 redesigns. 1931, to be exact. Took him a while to decide what changes to make. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 2:15:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Marlins are fine weapons, but the action on the Winchester is smooth as glass. Thats why I prefer them, the scope mounting abilitly of the Marlin is pointless to me, don't beleive these guns should be scoped. I agree. If I'm shooting past 100 yards or so, I'm not using a .30-30. The pre-64 action is smooth as glass, one I've fired that was made around 2000 or so was definitely not. It felt like they left all the rough edges on and didn't smooth any of the action. I think a mediocre gunsmith could improve it dramatically just with a little polishing here and there. That was the only post-64 I've handled so I don't know if they are all like that or if that one was an exception |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 2:22:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Marlin 336 FTW !!!! Marlins are fine weapons, but the action on the Winchester is smooth as glass. Thats why I prefer them, the scope mounting abilitly of the Marlin is pointless to me, don't beleive these guns should be scoped. Smooth though they are, I don't cotton to the rattle trap persona they have. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 2:32:43 PM EDT
[#34]
So I just remembered the lever gun foum, and ran my serial number from a tacky site, and my 94 was made in 1961, woo hoo
 , so I have alway liked the old lever guns, is their a web site or book that covers the winchester lever guns and changes made to the model through the years?
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Posted: 1/24/2010 2:54:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
John Olin bought Winchester a few years before the 1964 redesigns. 1931, to be exact. Took him a while to decide what changes to make. 
The best firearms Winchester ever made were built after Olin bought the company. The 1964 changes happened because the old Winchesters were simply unprofitable to manufacture. It was a bad time for gun manufacturing in general, because labor was becoming much more expensive and CNC hadn't been introduced yet. Remington was successful in the 1960s because guns like the 870 and 700 were solid performers that were easy to manufacture, and they were introduced at exactly the right time. Winchester was never the same after 1964, they went through a couple of sales and bankruptcy. Remington went on to become the biggest gun maker in the US. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 2:58:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Originally Posted By mstennes
Did they have a serial number change than? I guess, I need to go look and find one now, I didnt realize there WAS a difference. How does one know fo sure if I find one? The easiest way to tell is open the lever, pre-64's will have a staked machine screw in the middle of the lever the newer ones have a pin instead. There are three different models of 1894's; pre-64, intermediate and the newest angle eject. The pre-64 has a single leaf mainspring with machine screws holding the carrier in place. The intermediate has a multipul leaf mainspring with a pin holding the carrier in place. The angle eject has a coil mainspring and a pin holding the carrier in place. The intermediate and angle eject are made in Japan, the intermediates usually will have a red tinted receiver. The metal was different on the intermediates' receiver so it screws up the bluing process, if you try to reblue them the bluing turns red over time and half the time it will wipe right off. The only Model 94 worth owning is the pre-64, IMO. If you aren't going with a pre-64 then pick up a Marlin 336. Wrong, the first 94's made in Japan are the new limited edition releases coming out this year, you may be thinking of the limited edition 92's or 95's. Until they were discontinued a few years ago, the 94's were made in the now closed New Haven plant. Nope, I'm not thinking 92's or 95's. I'll let my gunsmithing instructor know he's been teaching people wrong for the last thirty years...Thanks for the heads up .
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Posted: 1/24/2010 2:59:13 PM EDT
[#37]
A screw in the lever and placement of the serial number,iirc..
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:06:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Nope, I'm not thinking 92's or 95's. I'll let my gunsmithing instructor know he's been teaching people wrong for the last thirty years...Thanks for the heads up .
I don't care who he is or what he does, he's fucking wrong. The post-64 Model 94 was made in New Haven until the plant closed in 2006. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:09:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nope, I'm not thinking 92's or 95's. I'll let my gunsmithing instructor know he's been teaching people wrong for the last thirty years...Thanks for the heads up .
I don't care who he is or what he does, he's fucking wrong. The post-64 Model 94 was made in New Haven until the plant closed in 2006. Believe me, a gunsmithing instructor is not the be all-end all of firearms knowledge. Some of them are barely competent jackasses whose sole positive attribute is a degree in BS, and I don't mean a Bachelor of Science. |
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Posted: 1/24/2010 3:10:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Originally Posted By mstennes
Did they have a serial number change than? I guess, I need to go look and find one now, I didnt realize there WAS a difference. How does one know fo sure if I find one? The easiest way to tell is open the lever, pre-64's will have a staked machine screw in the middle of the lever the newer ones have a pin instead. There are three different models of 1894's; pre-64, intermediate and the newest angle eject. The pre-64 has a single leaf mainspring with machine screws holding the carrier in place. The intermediate has a multipul leaf mainspring with a pin holding the carrier in place. The angle eject has a coil mainspring and a pin holding the carrier in place. The intermediate and angle eject are made in Japan, the intermediates usually will have a red tinted receiver. The metal was different on the intermediates' receiver so it screws up the bluing process, if you try to reblue them the bluing turns red over time and half the time it will wipe right off. The only Model 94 worth owning is the pre-64, IMO. If you aren't going with a pre-64 then pick up a Marlin 336. Wrong, the first 94's made in Japan are the new limited edition releases coming out this year, you may be thinking of the limited edition 92's or 95's. Until they were discontinued a few years ago, the 94's were made in the now closed New Haven plant. Nope, I'm not thinking 92's or 95's. I'll let my gunsmithing instructor know he's been teaching people wrong for the last thirty years...Thanks for the heads up .
Your instructor needs to go back to school. Here's a link to one of hundreds of articles that a quick google search will net you about the US production of the Winchester 94. Link to common knowledge He might be a great gunsmith, but he's not much of a historian. |
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