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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:29:14 PM EDT
Posted on WIX.... Just found this today; it seems Google has added a whole bunch of new photos to their LIFE archive, including five pages that I *PROMISE* you will make your stomach turn. Some of the most famous bombers of WWII are photographed here, waiting for death to be delivered at the sharp end of a massive steel blade- and that process is shown as well. It's literally like a punch in the gut to see these high resolution photos... it ain't pretty, folks, I'm warning you now. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&newwindow=1&q=guillotine+kingman+source:life&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=21 |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:32:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Damn, I always wondered why they are so hard to find these days.
I also wonder how the few that didn't get scraped, made it. ETA; maybe it was to keep the kiddies from seeing the provocative nose art in future air shows.  |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:33:36 PM EDT
[#2]
pics such as this and newer ones of B-52s getting chopped up break my heart
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:39:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Saw some famous birds in there. 5 Grand, Our Gal Sal, The Dragon and his Tail. Wish they could have been saved.
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:47:33 PM EDT
[#4]
OST
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:49:17 PM EDT
[#5]
We fought facism and communism but we still can't post a picture of a WWII bomber here because the nose art has nipples.
We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene! |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:49:31 PM EDT
[#6]
There were several airfields throughout AZ where retired WWII aircraft were mothballed.
I recall one story (it might have been Kingman) where they auctioned off a large fleet of aircraft: the buyer was only interested in the fuel which was left in the tanks; he sucked what fuel remained out and destroyed the airframes. Then there's the existing huge fleet down by Davis Monthan AFB –– AMARC –– where they chop up things like B-52s every day. |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:56:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Well, sadly, back then, they saw those aircraft as tools, not history.
I recall dad (who flew F-4s in Vietnam) talking about a time when they were doing the same to F-100s. It would be nice if they kept around a good number for posterity. |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:57:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Saw some famous birds in there. 5 Grand, Our Gal Sal, The Dragon and his Tail. Wish they could have been saved. There's a replica of "The Dragon And His Tail" still flying. I took a couple of pics of it a few years back. I'll see if I can find it.  |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:57:51 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:01:31 PM EDT
[#10]
They served their purpose. Can't live forever. Frankly, they were obsolete before the war ended.
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:01:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
There were several airfields throughout AZ where retired WWII aircraft were mothballed. I recall one story (it might have been Kingman) where they auctioned off a large fleet of aircraft: the buyer was only interested in the fuel which was left in the tanks; he sucked what fuel remained out and destroyed the airframes. Then there's the existing huge fleet down by Davis Monthan AFB –– AMARC –– where they chop up things like B-52s every day. It's no longer called AMARC, it's the 309th Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group (309 AMARG). All of the B-52's that were offered up for destruction under SALT Agreement have been destroyed. |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:02:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Check out the ordnance museum at Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland sometime before it closes. They have a bunch of armor that's actually documented as the last remaining example etc.
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:03:25 PM EDT
[#13]
At least many made it into private hands after the government sold them off. I wish they'd do the same with an F-4.
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:05:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
At least many made it into private hands after the government sold them off. I wish they'd do the same with an F-4. It's already been done. http://www.collingsfoundation.org/Houston/tx_f-4dphantom.htm |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:19:57 PM EDT
[#15]
All good things come to an end someday..
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:25:47 PM EDT
[#16]
 |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:50:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Well, sadly, back then, they saw those aircraft as tools, not history. I recall dad (who flew F-4s in Vietnam) talking about a time when they were doing the same to F-100s. It would be nice if they kept around a good number for posterity. I had a friend who worked on a program where they turned F-100s into drones that they then shot down with various things. |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:53:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Damn...Just damn! |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:54:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, sadly, back then, they saw those aircraft as tools, not history. I recall dad (who flew F-4s in Vietnam) talking about a time when they were doing the same to F-100s. It would be nice if they kept around a good number for posterity. I had a friend who worked on a program where they turned F-100s into drones that they then shot down with various things. I was watching discovery or something like that with my dad and he saw an RF-4 he used to fly get used for drone missile practice.... |
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:55:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Well, sadly, back then, they saw those aircraft as tools, not history. I recall dad (who flew F-4s in Vietnam) talking about a time when they were doing the same to F-100s. It would be nice if they kept around a good number for posterity. I had a friend who worked on a program where they turned F-100s into drones that they then shot down with various things. And now they're doing it with F-4s. I remember, growing up on a AFB early '80s, seeing and getting a patch from the pilot of a F-102 target drone that was passing through. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 12:10:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Sad. I met a pilot who flew the Dragon B-24 before it had the nose art on it. That plane was in the 43rd Bomb group, of which my grandfather was a bombardier. Sarkis Bartigan (spelling?) if I remember right, was a mechanic and painted many of the famous nose art of that group.
I've searched a little, but if anyone ever finds a pic of a B-24 called 'the pregnant whale' let me know. I have a picture of my grandfather standing by the tail of it but I have never seen the nose art. I only found the name by searching the tail #. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 2:49:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Read The Wild Blue by Stephen Ambrose.
A very remarkable book about the planes and pilots of the 15th Air Force. George McGovern was a B-24 pilot and the book tells a lot of his experiences. There is a good one about jettisoning bombs and unintentionally nailing a farmhouse. You'll have to read the book to find out why it's a good story. 
Related to this thread, he was in a movie theater back home after the war and the newsreel was about B-24s being cut up for scrap. He felt some outrage when a plane he flew on a muission appeared on the screen, destined for destruction. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 3:23:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Imagine if the aircraft manufacturer and the Army Air Force had agreed to remove the nose art because it was offensive to the enemy... |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:11:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Bump for day crew
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:16:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Imagine if the aircraft manufacturer and the Army Air Force had agreed to remove the nose art because it was offensive to the enemy... IIRC, there was an incident with the German propaganda having a field day showing off the wreckage of the U.S. bomber "Murder, Inc." |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:21:26 AM EDT
[#26]
i would have like to have had the nose art that would look awesome on my wall.
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:28:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Well, sadly, back then, they saw those aircraft as tools, not history. This... Not doing this was considered a waste of good aluminum from a plentiful source in '47. Look at '60s musclecars. People dumped them in the '70s because of insurance and gas prices. Nobody thought, hey this might be valuable in 20+ years. In fact, not too many people could have kept them for that duration if they wanted to. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:34:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, sadly, back then, they saw those aircraft as tools, not history. This... Not doing this was considered a waste of good aluminum from a plentiful source in '47. Look at '60s musclecars. People dumped them in the '70s because of insurance and gas prices. Nobody thought, hey this might be valuable in 20+ years. In fact, not too many people could have kept them for that duration if they wanted to. And some who tried to destroyed them. More than one rare muscle car has rotted into the ground while the owner refused to sell - "I'm going to restore it one day...." When a tree grows up through it, its pretty much done....I've seen pictures of a Plymouth Superbird that happened to. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:37:01 AM EDT
[#29]
While sad in many ways,the metal in those machines was recycled into those that won the Cold War in the same way scrapped Shermans were cast into M48 hulls.
The planes were plentiful and cheap enough that anyone who wanted one could have had a B-24 for their own front yard but far more people were excited about turning plane parts into aluminum siding for their new house or into a fridge.The incredible change in the lives of average Americans between 1940 and 1950 was due to building the machines of war and then scrapping them out for peaceful use.It really was turning swords into plowshares,and F-86's ;) It's expensive but you will NEVER forget the opportunity to go up in the Collings Foundation's Nine 0 Nine or Dragon and his Tail or forgive yourself if you pass it up.My local access channel sent a crew along and showed about 45 minutes of flight,I'll see if it's online some place. What's incredible is that these planes seem huge,until they're scaled next to a modern airliner and you consider how far they flew in them.The noise will send chills up your spine but it's hard to tell if it's that or just the vibrations.Amazing machines and amazing men that flew in them.I have an older gentleman that lives on my block who was the navigator on B-24's that flew out of North Africa and Italy.He found out I had lived in Vienna for a while and told me about flying so low over the city that the flak towers were shooting at them sideways and he was very surprised to learn that the towers still existed.He printed me out a list of every one of the 56 missions he flew: Klagenfurt,Vienna,Graz etc. Great man! |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:39:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, sadly, back then, they saw those aircraft as tools, not history. This... Not doing this was considered a waste of good aluminum from a plentiful source in '47. Look at '60s musclecars. People dumped them in the '70s because of insurance and gas prices. Nobody thought, hey this might be valuable in 20+ years. In fact, not too many people could have kept them for that duration if they wanted to. And some who tried to destroyed them. More than one rare muscle car has rotted into the ground while the owner refused to sell - "I'm going to restore it one day...." When a tree grows up through it, its pretty much done....I've seen pictures of a Plymouth Superbird that happened to. The one that lives behind Daytona. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:44:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
i would have like to have had the nose art that would look awesome on my wall. +1 |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 9:11:23 AM EDT
[#32]
I appreciate old warbirds as much as anybody, but with so many thousands having been built, and served their purpose, to win the war, and then becoming obsolete, it would not have made any sense at all to save them all. A few survived to be appreciated by later generations, but there's only ROOM for
a few, to be honest about it. Very few civilians can afford the investment in time and money and training it takes to operate and maintain ANY warbird. The more popular types of warbird are still common enough that most aviation museums have one or more examples. It takes corporations and large organizations with their financial resources to keep just the handful flying that still fly today. Though I don't like seeing these old planes chopped up, frankly it had to be done and by reducing their numbers, it made it possible for the few left to be supportable with reclaimed spare parts. And their comparative rarity also enhances their value. Do you think that P-51 Mustangs would be worth several hundred thousand dollars at a minimum in flying condition if there were 10,000 of them in civilian hands? They'd be bought and sold by the pound if that was the case, and somewhat underappreciated simply because they're so common and familiar. CJ |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 9:36:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I appreciate old warbirds as much as anybody, but with so many thousands having been built, and served their purpose, to win the war, and then becoming obsolete, it would not have made any sense at all to save them all. A few survived to be appreciated by later generations, but there's only ROOM for a few, to be honest about it. Very few civilians can afford the investment in time and money and training it takes to operate and maintain ANY warbird. The more popular types of warbird are still common enough that most aviation museums have one or more examples. It takes corporations and large organizations with their financial resources to keep just the handful flying that still fly today. Though I don't like seeing these old planes chopped up, frankly it had to be done and by reducing their numbers, it made it possible for the few left to be supportable with reclaimed spare parts. And their comparative rarity also enhances their value. Do you think that P-51 Mustangs would be worth several hundred thousand dollars at a minimum in flying condition if there were 10,000 of them in civilian hands? They'd be bought and sold by the pound if that was the case, and somewhat underappreciated simply because they're so common and familiar. CJ I just wish they had thought to save even one or two of such warbirds as the B-32 Dominator ant TBD Devastator. Sadly, there are no remaining examples of either. 
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:32:50 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Check out the ordnance museum at Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland sometime before it closes. They have a bunch of armor that's actually documented as the last remaining example etc. It's closing? WTF? ARFCOM ROAD TRIP? |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:37:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
We fought facism and communism but we still can't post a picture of a WWII bomber here because the nose art has nipples. We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene! isnt that some shit.. all because a couple of feminists and some bible thumpers might get offended... i hate the PC world we live in |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:46:26 AM EDT
[#36]
I just wish they would have cut out and saved the nose art panels.
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:48:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
no shit |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:51:34 AM EDT
[#38]
The aircraft circle of life....
Its sad, but it happens and theres nothing you can do to stop it. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:52:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: They served their purpose. Can't live forever. Frankly, they were obsolete before the war ended. I can see saving a few, but realistically, you can't save them all. They had their day, and were turned into other useful items. Such is life. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:56:55 AM EDT
[#40]
At least they should have cut the nose art off first... |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:59:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Here is one that was in the Royal Air Force Museum, London England. It was on a Handley Page Victor bomber. I don't know much more about it other than that.
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:04:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Here's a great story about one person that did what he could to save the old planes from being scrapped. Interesting how years later the military and museums came back to get the planes once they realized they had destroyed all theirs.Damn, I always wondered why they are so hard to find these days. I also wonder how the few that didn't get scraped, made it. The story is written by the son about how he and his dad bought planes from scrapyards for a few hundred dollars each and stored them in their backyard. This included a B-25 they disassembled by hand, loaded up in pieces into an old school bus and towed with their suburban back home. http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/soplata.html?c=y&page=1 http://pacaeropress.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3243121     |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:05:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I just wish they would have cut out and saved the nose art panels. A bidder purchased a large lot of these aircraft at DM. He cut off the nose art and left the planes. The .gov bought the nose art back much to the guys profit. I don't know where it ended up, but it is probably in a museum or storage. A guy in Ocotillo Wells CA has a large lot with some B-25s and engines. It is in the MOFN, about 3 miles south of the Blue Inn. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:06:40 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:09:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Posted on WIX.... Just found this today; it seems Google has added a whole bunch of new photos to their LIFE archive, including five pages that I *PROMISE* you will make your stomach turn. Some of the most famous bombers of WWII are photographed here, waiting for death to be delivered at the sharp end of a massive steel blade- and that process is shown as well. It's literally like a punch in the gut to see these high resolution photos... it ain't pretty, folks, I'm warning you now. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&newwindow=1&q=guillotine+kingman+source:life&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=21 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9f5658ad7cd275ea_large http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/15643fa7fa7948d7_large http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/cd339ac9794ea896_large Before  |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:16:16 AM EDT
[#46]
damn, that is sad
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:17:04 AM EDT
[#47]
I supposidly had a distant relative buy a bunch of B-17s at the end of the war.
He sold the (then rationed) gas for more then he paid for the planes AND when the .gov realized they'd left the Nordon bombsights on them, they paid him more than he paid for the planes in the first place AND he made more money yet when he scrapped the planes. (Or so goes the story) |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:21:05 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: I just wish they would have cut out and saved the nose art panels. Yup, exactly. |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:25:54 AM EDT
[#49]
tag
ByteTheBullet (-: |
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:26:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Imagine if the aircraft gun sight manufacturer and the Army Air Force had agreed to remove the nose art bible verse references because it was offensive to the enemy... |
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