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patchouli
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:25:58 PM
[Last Edit: 1/14/2010 9:26:36 PM by patchouli]
A little debate. Everywhere you search on the net, it says, "Roll up the newspaper and hit yourself in the head with it, cause it's your fault!"

I.E., hitting a dog with a newspaper is cruel and never to be done.


What say you? My puppy is trying to "claim" the couch. We have NEVER let him on the couch. As soon as he tries to get on it we say "off" and get him off the couch. He's never on it for more than 5 seconds. We then stand together blocking the couch trying to show him that it's "ours." We praise him when he voluntarily leaves the couch at the "off" command (this is only 1 in 10 times). The other nine times, he will lower himself against the cushion and brace himself trying to stay on the couch as we attempt to remove him. In short, he's being a bastard, and it's getting worse.

Clearly, all this namby pamby hippy "positive" reinforcement is not working in this case. We are probably doing something wrong. That said, I want to wack him with a rolled newspaper, the way grandpa used to deal with a dog. Seemed to work for those guys. They were the greatest generation. Now we have to be sensitive to the dog's fragile ego.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:28:22 PM
Paper does not work on my dog, I have to use a belt or switch to get his attention
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:28:35 PM
I'm not gonna say it's right or wrong, but I rarely would think it's ok to physically harm another being. If they're causing you or another person/animal harm, go for it. Give 'em a boot, even. Just don't hit a dog for trying to take your sandwich. He's just trying to survive. He can't help the urge.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:28:51 PM
[Last Edit: 1/14/2010 9:29:28 PM by thebeekeeper1]
It will terrify the dog and not accomplish what one intends. You MUST deal with them using "pack language" which will be understood. ALL canine owners need to learn how to be the alpha.

The only thing worse is rubbing their nose in their feces or urine.

Edit: One other thing––they don't speak english.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:28:53 PM
if done right it is more of the noise than a smack you have to be the alpha dog.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:28:57 PM
Some dogs may react better to a spray bottle of water or flea tick spray......What ever works best
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:29:15 PM
Vinegar water in spray bottle... or is that for cats? I forget.
patchouli
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:29:22 PM

Originally Posted By Jeff_1:
Paper does not work on my dog, I have to use a belt or switch to get his attention

Your dog looks like nixon. Ha!
TwoDogKnight
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:30:04 PM
Won't work with my dogs, they 'll shoot ya




Best to establish yourself as pack leader and learn to get dogs in calm submissive state to train.
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DuraToTheMax
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:31:38 PM
Is it okay? Well it's not animal cruelty if that's what you're asking.

But it's hardly an effective disciplinary tool.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:31:48 PM
I just stand up, raise my voice and point at the dog and he knows the shit has hit the fan.

I don't think I've ever had to whack the dog to get his attention.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."
patchouli
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:31:52 PM

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
It will terrify the dog and not accomplish what one intends. You MUST deal with them using "pack language" which will be understood. ALL canine owners need to learn how to be the alpha.

The only thing worse is rubbing their nose in their feces or urine.

Edit: One other thing––they don't speak english.


What am I doing wrong then? He is constantly attempting to get up there, even though he has NEVER been invited, never been allowed to get comfortable, we "claim" the space by standing firm over the couch preventing him from coming back.

10 minutes later, he's jumping up again.

I've tried to use it as a "training opportunity." I used the off command, but it ONLY works 1 out of 10 times, and ONLY when I'm holding a treat.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:31:57 PM
It's your dog , you can hit him with a brick as far as I'm concerned


Preemptive Disclaimer for the sandy twats: This is no way advocating animal abuse , just stating you can do what you want with your property , it's no one else's business
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:32:48 PM
paper my ass I use a 2x4 on that hard headed bitch.
patchouli
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:33:37 PM

Originally Posted By unpleasant:
I just stand up, raise my voice and point at the dog and he knows the shit has hit the fan.

I don't think I've ever had to whack the dog to get his attention.
I had a dog like that when I was a kid. This one is different. When he is "focused" on something, it is very difficult to get his attention.

All the Cesar Milan "claw bite" bullshit doesn't even phase him. He either pays NO attention to it, or tries to bite the hand.

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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:34:44 PM
Originally Posted By ShingleMonkey:
paper my ass I use a 2x4 on that hard headed bitch.



to the other sandy twats, my dog is submissive to me so I dont have to touch her.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:34:59 PM
Hitting a dog does nothing, because it is a human reaction that dogs have no comprehension of.

If you want to get him to stop doing something, alpha-roll him the minute you catch him in the act.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:35:24 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
It will terrify the dog and not accomplish what one intends. You MUST deal with them using "pack language" which will be understood. ALL canine owners need to learn how to be the alpha.

The only thing worse is rubbing their nose in their feces or urine.

Edit: One other thing––they don't speak english.


Growing up in a family that spent years breeding Brittany Spaniels, I will have to agree with TBK and say this is the holy grail of dog training.

Hitting a dog will accomplish nothing except damaging the dog.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:36:02 PM
Yes, it's your dog, and your house, ergo, your rules. Read "Starship Troopers" for follow-up.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:36:44 PM
I would not do this. Use a Spray Bottle with Water and use that rather than a Newspaper. Also at Petco or other Stores you can buy a Product (not sure of the name) that can be sprayed on areas where the Dog is not supposed to go. Try this and resort to the Newspaper if all fails but I my guess is this will not help. Or call Cesar Milan the Dog Guru.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:38:28 PM
Get a shock training collar with a remote "happy switch". Dog starts to jump up, hit the switch - negative reinforcement will work. By the sounds of it you'll need the collar in the future anyway (Petco, Petsmart)
patchouli
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:39:52 PM

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Edit: One other thing––they don't speak english.

I know that. We have worked on "off" as a command for when he climbs on a person or object. He sorta gets it (will get off of something, but usually only if he is in "training" mode when he's focused in on you).

He EASILY mastered "sit", "paw," "stay (while I prepare his food)."
I know he is smart and capable of learning.


I try all the psycho babble stuff. I make him work and wait for his food. I make him sit before we leave the house on the leash, and I walk first. I try to "claim" the space. It seems he will NOT accept dominance.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:41:36 PM
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
It will terrify the dog and not accomplish what one intends. You MUST deal with them using "pack language" which will be understood. ALL canine owners need to learn how to be the alpha.

The only thing worse is rubbing their nose in their feces or urine.

Edit: One other thing––they don't speak english.


What am I doing wrong then? He is constantly attempting to get up there, even though he has NEVER been invited, never been allowed to get comfortable, we "claim" the space by standing firm over the couch preventing him from coming back.

10 minutes later, he's jumping up again.

I've tried to use it as a "training opportunity." I used the off command, but it ONLY works 1 out of 10 times, and ONLY when I'm holding a treat.


You "gave him the off command" but he probably has no idea what that means. Read this and you will begin to understand. YOU need to learn how to train the dog. This is a problem with you, not the dog.
patchouli
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:42:42 PM

Originally Posted By patriot73:


Growing up in a family that spent years breeding Brittany Spaniels, I will have to agree with TBK and say this is the holy grail of dog training.

Hitting a dog will accomplish nothing except damaging the dog.

Damn. This is a Brittany pup, too. In your experience are they "stubborn?" Do they listen well? I know it's dependant on the handler/owner probably, but damn. I read all the shit, I try the techniques. They just don't seem to work with him.

The couch thing is only one part. He also gets in a nippy biting/growling mode with me, that is hard to stop. I try to remain calm but we both get "worked up."
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:42:53 PM
A peice of stove wood seems to get their attention pretty well.

When I was breaking the pup of getting up there, I would pat the couch and call her up there. She would be wagging her little tail, when *BAM*, cartwheeling into the corner she went. When she regained consciousness, I would call her back. She would slink over toward the couch, and crawl up whimpering. You know it, Bam.

After a couple weeks, she just goes to the corner and shakes when she sees a peice of oak.

So I just keep the firewood on the couch when I leave the room. No problems.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:45:59 PM
[Last Edit: 1/14/2010 9:47:23 PM by thebeekeeper1]
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.

Edit: The best teacher for you is a bitch with pups. Watch her, then mimic her.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:47:50 PM
Seems unnecessary. Since it can be done without hitting (dogs are very in tune to voice tones when done right), I don't do it. Swatting your dog isn't a sin I don't think, its like raising a kid. Beating your dog, I cannot forgive and would do my best to knock someone flat for (maybe they'd kick my ass instead)if I witnessed it. Yes, some people think its property. I don't. Put an animal down if it bites chronically or is sick, fine... abuse it, never. Animals aren't people, but they still have feelings and should be respected.

Scattered, brief, and I'm tired.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:47:57 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.

Edit: The best teacher for you is a bitch with pups. Watch her, then mimic her.


Yeah. Record this while you do it too, we want to see an AAR.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."
patchouli
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:49:31 PM

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.


I TRIED that too. Multiple times, with ferocious intensity. As they said in Braveheart, "It did not have the desired outcome."

He NEVER stopped fighting, kicking, biting, squirming. For 15 minutes I pinned him down. He fought so damn hard the whole time. I was drenched in sweat when it ended. There was never a moment he stopped. And he's fairly small.


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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:49:37 PM
Ihave heard that you want to use a newspaper or something instead of your hand because you want to associate the hand with petting and feeding
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:49:46 PM
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Edit: One other thing––they don't speak english.

I know that. We have worked on "off" as a command for when he climbs on a person or object. He sorta gets it (will get off of something, but usually only if he is in "training" mode when he's focused in on you).

He EASILY mastered "sit", "paw," "stay (while I prepare his food)."
I know he is smart and capable of learning.


I try all the psycho babble stuff. I make him work and wait for his food. I make him sit before we leave the house on the leash, and I walk first. I try to "claim" the space. It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


It seems you are not making him accept dominance, if he is trying to bite the hand. What's his breed and is he neutered? Have you had him since he was a puppy or did you adopt him? He's just a strong-willed dog and you're going to have to adjust to compensate for it by stepping it up. Another poster suggested giving him an alpha roll as soon as he tries to stake the couch; I second that. Really pile into him and knock him over onto his back, and be really loud and vocal while you're doing it. Shock and awe. Then get up and go sit on the couch in front of him and ignore him. (And is there anyone else in the household letting him sneak up there when you're not home? Kids?)
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:51:20 PM
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.


I TRIED that too. Multiple times, with ferocious intensity. As they said in Braveheart, "It did not have the desired outcome."

He NEVER stopped fighting, kicking, biting, squirming. For 15 minutes I pinned him down. He fought so damn hard the whole time. I was drenched in sweat when it ended. There was never a moment he stopped. And he's fairly small.




It's not something you "try"––it's something you DO and ARE, all day, every day. You are either the leader of the pack or you are the pack bitch. No further comment. Good luck.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:51:21 PM
This thread is relative to my interests. I have a male lab puppy that is being quite disobediant lately. He also doesn't seem to respond to a light wack from a paper towel roll, nor a squirt of water. He's much more dominate and aggressive than my other dog ever was, or really any dog I've been around. (Not in a 'Bad Dog, Shoot It Now' kind of way, just...more like a teenager rebelling. I can now sympathize with my Mother, I suppose.)

I'm reading puppy books, and put him on his back when he pisses me off. He also gets 'barked' at a lot. I have discovered that me, in my best James Hetfield voice saying/barking 'Fuck Off' in a low, loud grumbly tone, sounds a heck of a lot like how I imagine a German Shepherd would say it. That he seems to respond to, but Obviously I don't want to be at the park yelling Fuck Off every thirty seconds. Although...that might be fun.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:52:48 PM

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.

Edit: The best teacher for you is a bitch with pups. Watch her, then mimic her.

Often a bitch will flip a pup on it's back and grasp the neck until her pup quits struggling, or submits.

I've replicated the act with some success, when they're on their back they seem to submit quicker.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:52:54 PM
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
A peice of stove wood seems to get their attention pretty well.

When I was breaking the pup of getting up there, I would pat the couch and call her up there. She would be wagging her little tail, when *BAM*, cartwheeling into the corner she went. When she regained consciousness, I would call her back. She would slink over toward the couch, and crawl up whimpering. You know it, Bam.

After a couple weeks, she just goes to the corner and shakes when she sees a peice of oak.

So I just keep the firewood on the couch when I leave the room. No problems.


Really?
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:54:29 PM
You need to correct him before he gets on the couch. Soon as he starts going towards the couch to jump on it correct him.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:55:02 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.


I TRIED that too. Multiple times, with ferocious intensity. As they said in Braveheart, "It did not have the desired outcome."

He NEVER stopped fighting, kicking, biting, squirming. For 15 minutes I pinned him down. He fought so damn hard the whole time. I was drenched in sweat when it ended. There was never a moment he stopped. And he's fairly small.




It's not something you "try"––it's something you DO and ARE, all day, every day. You are either the leader of the pack or you are the pack bitch. No further comment. Good luck.


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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:55:58 PM
Dogs are like little kids. They're all different. What works with one doesn't work with another.

Our border collie gets all tore up just over the tone of your voice alone. Tell her she's a bad girl (in the right tone of voice) and she stops whatever she was doing and heads back to the pen. I whipped her one time for going down into the woods (almost 12 years ago) and have never had to even so much as smack her since then.

I have two male dogs from the same litter (mixed breeds). One is about the most aggravating dog I've ever been around. Running, jumping, barking, snapping at his brother, etc. but when I talk to him in a mean loud voice he will mind what I say. His brother on the other hand is the nicest, calmest, easy going big love bug you've ever been around but once he get interested in some scent on the ground he will ignore me no matter what I do.

I haven't used a rolled up news paper but I've smacked them and used a switch on them when they were smaller and still learning/growing up. The last few years I just talk mean to them and it works on two of them. Well, it works on the big love bug if he's close enough for me to have my hands on him.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:57:21 PM
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.


I TRIED that too. Multiple times, with ferocious intensity. As they said in Braveheart, "It did not have the desired outcome."

He NEVER stopped fighting, kicking, biting, squirming. For 15 minutes I pinned him down. He fought so damn hard the whole time. I was drenched in sweat when it ended. There was never a moment he stopped. And he's fairly small.




Sounds like he was removed from his mother too early and was not socialized properly - did you get him from a pet store?

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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:57:45 PM
Originally Posted By Bushylover:
I'm not gonna say it's right or wrong, but I rarely would think it's ok to physically harm another being. If they're causing you or another person/animal harm, go for it. Give 'em a boot, even. Just don't hit a dog for trying to take your sandwich. He's just trying to survive. He can't help the urge.


Your outlook is a recipe for people and animals that never learn rules and boundaries that enable them to co-exist very well. Not advocating physical violence, but it kind of sounds like you wouldn't do anything effective to modify a dog's behavior for stealing food out of a human's hand.

My dog goes to his crate and lays down when it's mealtime in my house.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:58:18 PM

Originally Posted By Db8sGr8:
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
A peice of stove wood seems to get their attention pretty well.

When I was breaking the pup of getting up there, I would pat the couch and call her up there. She would be wagging her little tail, when *BAM*, cartwheeling into the corner she went. When she regained consciousness, I would call her back. She would slink over toward the couch, and crawl up whimpering. You know it, Bam.

After a couple weeks, she just goes to the corner and shakes when she sees a peice of oak.

So I just keep the firewood on the couch when I leave the room. No problems.


Really?


TheKill
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:58:55 PM
[Last Edit: 1/14/2010 10:04:15 PM by TheKill]
Originally Posted By MountainMan:
It's your dog , you can hit him with a brick as far as I'm concerned


Preemptive Disclaimer for the sandy twats: This is no way advocating animal abuse , just stating you can do what you want with your property , it's no one else's business


If it's OK to shoot a dog without true cause and then claim "it's only property", it's probably OK to beat it with a newspaper.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 9:59:31 PM
[Last Edit: 1/14/2010 10:03:19 PM by Mullah_Atari]
Dogs are not people. They don't speak English; they only associate sounds with punishment if they are physically punished immediately and consistently. You use rewards to establish new good behaviors, not to entice the cessation of a bad one. Hit it with a newspaper or thump it on the head, but don't hurt the dog. Or frighten the dog.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 10:01:13 PM
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.


I TRIED that too. Multiple times, with ferocious intensity. As they said in Braveheart, "It did not have the desired outcome."

He NEVER stopped fighting, kicking, biting, squirming. For 15 minutes I pinned him down. He fought so damn hard the whole time. I was drenched in sweat when it ended. There was never a moment he stopped. And he's fairly small.




I think you are doing it wrong. Were you doing it like a dog would by biting the skin on the neck and rolling him or were you literally trying to hold his whole body down? If done correctly once he starts to calm you can keep him there with one finger.

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Posted: 1/14/2010 10:01:32 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
<snip>

It seems he will NOT accept dominance.


He will accept it once he realizes you are the dominant dog. Of course, that requires you to behave as the dominant dog. Stare him down, face him squarely, and when he BEGINS to do something unacceptable you must dive on him––grab the back of his neck with your hand, push his head to the ground and snarl like a dog beside his face. This will only need to be done a few times, then a harsh glare, along with a lip snarl and growl, will accomplish the same thing. Make sure he shows submission before you resort to this though––ears back, tail down, gaze averted. Easier to show than type.

Edit: The best teacher for you is a bitch with pups. Watch her, then mimic her.


TBK has it exactly right.

It gets real fun when you pounce on them and they try to get away instead of submitting to the neck scruff shake or alpha roll...............
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse." - John Stuart Mill
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Posted: 1/14/2010 10:02:36 PM
I don't know shit about training dogs..

Last year I picked up a puppy that is hell on wheels if you get him started. Same unresponsive, hyper rage type shit would happen with your dog.

Run the piss out of him to burn off that energy. Run it, Long walk, chase the ball, bike it.. whatever.. Just get the dog to the point where he comes back and the first thing it wants to do is lay down on the floor and pant.

He'll be less likely to buck the system and jump on the couch, and he'll be less likely to ignore you when you tell him to jump off.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 10:02:42 PM
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
A peice of stove wood seems to get their attention pretty well.

When I was breaking the pup of getting up there, I would pat the couch and call her up there. She would be wagging her little tail, when *BAM*, cartwheeling into the corner she went. When she regained consciousness, I would call her back. She would slink over toward the couch, and crawl up whimpering. You know it, Bam.

After a couple weeks, she just goes to the corner and shakes when she sees a peice of oak.

So I just keep the firewood on the couch when I leave the room. No problems.




OP: I think the newspaper thing CAN be an effective tool, not for discipline, but to get the dog's attention. Some dogs, especially puppies, can be quite aloof and will not give you their attention with just verbal commands. The key is that you aren't trying to inflict pain at all, it's simply a tap (only use a couple sheets of paper) that makes the right sound. The sound, combined with the VERY SLIGHT tap from the paper will get the dog's attention, and then your commands/physically removing the do from the couch do the actual training.

From personal experience, i find it most effective when you use just two or three sheets, rolled into a hollow tube about 2" in diameter. Hit yourself with it first on the back of the arm. If you are able to cause any pain before the newspaper buckles, it's either too thick (too many sheets) or rolled too tightly.

Once you have made a proper roll, just give the dog a swift tap on the top of the muzzle (behind the nose, which is more sensitive and can easily get a paper cut, again we aren't trying to inflict pain). Once you have the dogs attention, give commands in a stern, but calm voice, and , if necessary, remove the dog from the couch.

Hope this helps.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 10:03:49 PM

Originally Posted By TwoDogKnight:
Won't work with my dogs, they 'll shoot ya




Best to establish yourself as pack leader and learn to get dogs in calm submissive state to train.

When my dog was a pup and we'd ruff-house, if he got to aggressive a would lay on him and nip his ear. Now he's 3 he doesn't pay me any mind, but he doesn't get outta control either. Dogs are smart but they have a short attention span, hitting them just makes em skittish.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 10:06:50 PM
Seriously when he gets on the couch you need to instantly force him off. If he gets into a corner where you have a hard time getting him out, grab him by the scruff of the neck hold him off his feet for 1/4 to 1/2 a second so he knows that you are in charge and drop him on the floor (don't throw him or even get angry). Then sit in the spot he just vacated. This will enforce that this spot is yours and not his. You will probably wind up trading ends of the couch with him for a while until he gets it thru his head that the couch is YOUR spot.

It sounds like he is going thru puberty and is trying to determine his place in the pack with all this new testosterone coursing thru his system.

I have a lab that would occasionally get hard headed, what worked on him was to not get angry and stay calm and cool but not let him get away with anything.
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Posted: 1/14/2010 10:09:38 PM
[Last Edit: 1/14/2010 10:12:12 PM by Db8sGr8]
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:

Originally Posted By Db8sGr8:
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
A peice of stove wood seems to get their attention pretty well.

When I was breaking the pup of getting up there, I would pat the couch and call her up there. She would be wagging her little tail, when *BAM*, cartwheeling into the corner she went. When she regained consciousness, I would call her back. She would slink over toward the couch, and crawl up whimpering. You know it, Bam.

After a couple weeks, she just goes to the corner and shakes when she sees a peice of oak.

So I just keep the firewood on the couch when I leave the room. No problems.


Really?




Is my sarcasm meter broken? Or do you truly believe that punishing your dog for coming to you when you call her is effective discipline?
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Posted: 1/14/2010 10:10:02 PM
i personally dont do it. i will grab their scruff and give a quick yank, sometimes rolling them over on to their back like another dog would do, but only in the most extreme situations. usually the look or sharp tone will put them in their place.
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