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Posted: 12/29/2009 7:44:15 AM EDT
[#1]
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November 10, 1975
Why posting now, missed the anniversary by a month yeah... the point of this thread? What is it? the song or the subject? just randomly It was random. Is that ok with you? If you're looking for a "point" of every thread in Arfcom GD, I don't know what to tell you. Not interested, don't click? Missed the anniversary by closer to 6-7 weeks if you want to split hairs. |
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Posted: 12/29/2009 7:46:33 AM EDT
[#2]
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Took me a long time to convince my wife that this actually happened. She didn't think there were ships that big on the Great Lakes and that it couldn't get that rough out there. I live near Lake Erie, and some of the gales can produce 12-15 foot waves no problem. |
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Posted: 12/29/2009 9:42:19 AM EDT
[#3]
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Took me a long time to convince my wife that this actually happened. She didn't think there were ships that big on the Great Lakes and that it couldn't get that rough out there. I live near Lake Erie, and some of the gales can produce 12-15 foot waves no problem. Erie's can be particularly dangerous and unpredictable due to her shallow depth. Erie gets rough FAST in bad weather because of this. She's taken some good-sized ships down. |
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Posted: 12/29/2009 9:49:03 AM EDT
[#4]
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I've been in Derry. That is one of the CREEPIEST places I've ever trod in. I felt as if at any moment a shootout was going to begin. I kept looking for places I would be able to throw my wife down into to get some cover. Given what happened with her (assuming we are talking about the same person), I would think you should have used her as cover. 
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Posted: 12/29/2009 9:51:49 AM EDT
[#5]
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Wow, what a sad slice of Americana. Thanks for posting...I've always loved this haunting tune. I remember seeing a Discovery Channel show on this some time ago, and the consensus guess was that one or more of the cargo hold lids were not properly secured, allowing water in a rough sea to leak in. I think there was a problem with corrosion in the latches... I remember being at a dance in New Hampshire as a kid around '76 when the song came out and hoping I could slow dance with some hot chick...never happened... I'm pretty sure that after the last dive they did on the wreck that that theory was de-bunked. I believe that the thought today is that a rogue wave slammed her and split her in two, which is why she sunk so fast, with little chance for the crew to adandon ship. Such a sad story How long ago was this? As I understand it, no further dives will be made on Fitzgerald, by request of the families. I'm interested in seeing what they have to say. The four theories I'm acquainted with are: 1) She broke in half on the surface and sunk. (Stress fracture) 2) She was hit by the "three sisters" (three large waves in a row, not quite a "rouge wave", but conceptually close), causing either a breakup on the surface or causing her to hit bottom bow-first, splitting her hull. 3) Improperly closed hatch covers. (This appears to be the least likely at the moment) 4) Bottoming out on six-fathoms shoal. I've never heard of any of those theories becoming "official" and many researchers say that any of them are possible and we simply do not have enough information to prove one over the other. Whatever did happen, it happened FAST. McSorley never called distress, even though the radiophone he would use to do so was in easy reach. Perhaps the most haunting part of the whole story is the last conversation between Capt. McSorley and Capt. Cooper. Capt. Cooper: "How are you making out with your problem?" Capt. McSorley: "We are holding our own." McSorley said that this was one of the worst seas he'd ever been in and he'd on the lakes for many decades. He knew it was hairy, but he was also sure that "Big Fitz" would get them home once again. I really wish I remember the documentary I saw fairly recently that discussed when the last and final dive was completed, and what their findings were. I do know that they as you stated, pretty much dispelled the hatchways being improperly closed. I know the familiedswere extremely pissed off about that theory. I believe that you are correct in that there isn't an "official" determination as to the cause of the wreck. Whatever caused it, it is a compelling story, and one that I've always been interested in since I was a boy. ETA- From Wiki: A documentary created and aired by the Discovery Channel investigated a large "fold" found in the hull plating. Previous defects with cargo hold covers and clamps as well as cracking issues were also addressed. Through the use of wave tanks and computer simulation, the Discovery Channel team concluded the loss of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald was due to a rogue wave. Reports show three large waves were detected, two of which were reported by the Anderson. Such a grouping of waves is often called "three sisters". As per the investigation, it was theorized that the Fitzgerald was badly battered by the first two waves, further damaging the hatch covers. It was surmised ultimately that the Fitzgerald took on water through the damaged cargo hold covers, which flooded the ore cargo and severely stressed the ship's hull, and was then overwhelmed by the third wave that snapped the weakened ship in half. The last dive was the one in which they recovered her bell. At least the last dive I know of. I know that Deep Sea Detectives took a look at the case, but stated that no dives would be made then or anytime in the immediate future, unless there was some compelling reason to do so and the families agreed. That's why I asked. I didn't think another expedition had been made, but I supposed I might have missed it somehow. I know Chatterton and Kohler said there just wasn't enough data to rule any possibility completely out or to declare any one cause as more likely as the other. There guys know their wrecks, so I trust their judgment here. I know the last expedition came back inconclusive, too. (The one where the bell was recovered) I'd be surprised if any sanctioned dive took place on the Fitzgerald anytime in the foreseeable future. I remember seeing a newcast about the aniversary of the loss when I was very young (5th anniversary. maybe?) I've been fascinated with it ever since. |
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Posted: 12/29/2009 10:18:31 AM EDT
[#6]
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November 10, 1975
Why posting now, missed the anniversary by a month yeah... the point of this thread? What is it? the song or the subject? just randomly It was random. Is that ok with you? If you're looking for a "point" of every thread in Arfcom GD, I don't know what to tell you. Not interested, don't click? Missed the anniversary by closer to 6-7 weeks if you want to split hairs. There has to be a point? I don't think much of GD got the memo. 
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Posted: 12/29/2009 11:09:25 AM EDT
[#7]
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So what caused it? Did they hit bottom? Hatches failed. One theory is that the forward man hatches failed; when the water entered them, it 'inflated' the main hold hatches, blowing them off. Or something like that. |
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Posted: 12/30/2009 6:56:13 PM EDT
[#8]
BTW - The last expedition to the Fitzgerald was in 1995.
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Posted: 12/30/2009 7:16:24 PM EDT
[#9]
I was in high school when it happened.
Have always loved the song. A haunting story with some brilliantly composed lyrics. |
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Posted: 12/30/2009 10:38:36 PM EDT
[#10]
My Girlfriend and I spent a night at Whitefish Point in '08 and visited the Shipwreck Museum.
The feeling you get when you stand in front the ships bell and hear that song played on the museum sound system is incredible. |
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Posted: 12/30/2009 10:40:36 PM EDT
[#11]
One of the greats.
ETA: My favorite verse; Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings in the rooms of her ice-water mansion. Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams; the islands and bays are for sportsmen. And farther below Lake Ontario takes in what Lake Erie can send her, And the iron boats go as the mariners all know with the Gales of November remembered. |
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