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Posted: 11/25/2009 1:13:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2009 1:14:02 PM EDT by El-cid]
SWAT Team Blows Up Wrong Door

LAS VEGAS (CN) - North Las Vegas police blew up a family's door in a raid on the wrong house, then failed to fix the door as they promised, causing the home to be burglarized repeatedly, the family says in Federal Court. Jose Cruz says he, his wife and three young children - 8, 5 and 3 years old - were "scared to death" when a North Las Vegas SWAT team raided their home.

The botched raid came in the early morning hours of Feb. 4, 2008. The police apparently were searching for three armed-robbery suspects - all of them "black males."

Cruz says he had just got out of bed and was still in his underwear when cops ordered him to the floor at gunpoint. He says the officers grabbed him and dragged him 15 feet through the house, "in front of his wife and children, out the front door into the freezing cold."

The officers then herded his wife and the three "underdressed" children out into the cold.

After realizing they had the wrong house, Cruz says the officers promised that the City of North Las Vegas would pay for a new door and other damaged items - but it didn't happen.

"As a result of not having a door, the family home has been burglarized several times," according to the complaint.

Cruz says the bungled raid subjected his family to shame and humiliation, and his children "live in fear that at any moment they will be subjected to the same incident ... except the next time might be by those that will not hesitate to pull the trigger."

Cruz says his family's 4th, 5th and 15th Amendment rights were violated, and seeks at least $200,000 in damages.

The family is represented by Joseph Scalia.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/11/25/SWAT_Team_Blows_Up_Wrong_Door.htm
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:15:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By El-cid:
SWAT Team Blows Up Wrong Door

LAS VEGAS (CN) - North Las Vegas police blew up a family's door in a raid on the wrong house, then failed to fix the door as they promised, causing the home to be burglarized repeatedly, the family says in Federal Court. Jose Cruz says he, his wife and three young children - 8, 5 and 3 years old - were "scared to death" when a North Las Vegas SWAT team raided their home.

The botched raid came in the early morning hours of Feb. 4, 2008. The police apparently were searching for three armed-robbery suspects - all of them "black males."

Cruz says he had just got out of bed and was still in his underwear when cops ordered him to the floor at gunpoint. He says the officers grabbed him and dragged him 15 feet through the house, "in front of his wife and children, out the front door into the freezing cold."

The officers then herded his wife and the three "underdressed" children out into the cold.

After realizing they had the wrong house, Cruz says the officers promised that the City of North Las Vegas would pay for a new door and other damaged items - but it didn't happen.

"As a result of not having a door, the family home has been burglarized several times," according to the complaint.

Cruz says the bungled raid subjected his family to shame and humiliation, and his children "live in fear that at any moment they will be subjected to the same incident ... except the next time might be by those that will not hesitate to pull the trigger."

Cruz says his family's 4th, 5th and 15th Amendment rights were violated, and seeks at least $200,000 in damages.

The family is represented by Joseph Scalia.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/11/25/SWAT_Team_Blows_Up_Wrong_Door.htm
Cheap.

Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:16:07 PM EDT
Isolated incident, nothing to see here peasant. Move along.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:34:02 PM EDT
These people should be thankful they live in a country where they have the freedom to experience a no-knock raid and humiliation from such a well trained SWAT team like this.

Is this the same Jose Cruz that used to be the first base coach for the Astros?
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:41:58 PM EDT
Nothing will change until the officers involved are held personally responsible.

Nothing like liability to get authorities to start thinking about what they are doing.

As of now, the popo could care less.

Taxpayers will pay any judgment.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:46:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Nothing will change until the officers involved are held personally responsible.

Nothing like liability to get authorities to start thinking about what they are doing.

As of now, the popo could care less.

Taxpayers will pay any judgment.


Agree - officers SHOULD be personally liable. Really think you are fighting the good fight, doing it responsibly, and doing it morally? Put your wallet where your mouth is.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:47:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Nothing will change until the officers involved are held personally responsible.

Nothing like liability to get authorities to start thinking about what they are doing.

As of now, the popo could care less.

Taxpayers will pay any judgment.


I understand that officers are protected from liability while in the lawful performance of their duties. How on Earth they are protected when they kick down the wrong door? I"m assuming they don't have a warrant for that residence.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:48:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Nothing will change until the officers involved are held personally responsible.



This
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:48:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheKill:
Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Nothing will change until the officers involved are held personally responsible.

Nothing like liability to get authorities to start thinking about what they are doing.

As of now, the popo could care less.

Taxpayers will pay any judgment.


Agree - officers SHOULD be personally liable. Really think you are fighting the good fight, doing it responsibly, and doing it morally? Put your wallet where your mouth is.


which officers? the SWAT guys who made the raid, or the intel guys who told them where to go?

Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:49:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VelveteenMole:

Originally Posted By El-cid:
SWAT Team Blows Up Wrong Door

LAS VEGAS (CN) - North Las Vegas police blew up a family's door in a raid on the wrong house, then failed to fix the door as they promised, causing the home to be burglarized repeatedly, the family says in Federal Court. Jose Cruz says he, his wife and three young children - 8, 5 and 3 years old - were "scared to death" when a North Las Vegas SWAT team raided their home.

The botched raid came in the early morning hours of Feb. 4, 2008. The police apparently were searching for three armed-robbery suspects - all of them "black males."

Cruz says he had just got out of bed and was still in his underwear when cops ordered him to the floor at gunpoint. He says the officers grabbed him and dragged him 15 feet through the house, "in front of his wife and children, out the front door into the freezing cold."

The officers then herded his wife and the three "underdressed" children out into the cold.

After realizing they had the wrong house, Cruz says the officers promised that the City of North Las Vegas would pay for a new door and other damaged items - but it didn't happen.

"As a result of not having a door, the family home has been burglarized several times," according to the complaint.

Cruz says the bungled raid subjected his family to shame and humiliation, and his children "live in fear that at any moment they will be subjected to the same incident ... except the next time might be by those that will not hesitate to pull the trigger."

Cruz says his family's 4th, 5th and 15th Amendment rights were violated, and seeks at least $200,000 in damages.

The family is represented by Joseph Scalia.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/11/25/SWAT_Team_Blows_Up_Wrong_Door.htm
Cheap.



I agree. I mean come on now this is Vegas. That is pretty fucked up. I could imagine how terrified my children would be if something like that happened, especially my 2.5 year old. That would really mess them up for a long time. I say they need to multiply that amount times five.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:50:56 PM EDT
The officers should have to pay the settlement out of pocket and pay out of pocket for the door to be fixed....dock 3/4 of each officer's paycheck til it is done.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:52:38 PM EDT
I expect they want him to pay 5 to 10 times the damage they caused in attorney fees, then they will offer to pay for the door, nothing else.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:53:47 PM EDT
Everyone involved from the top to the bottom should each pay the equivalent amount of money for one door.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 1:54:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By TheKill:
Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Nothing will change until the officers involved are held personally responsible.

Nothing like liability to get authorities to start thinking about what they are doing.

As of now, the popo could care less.

Taxpayers will pay any judgment.


Agree - officers SHOULD be personally liable. Really think you are fighting the good fight, doing it responsibly, and doing it morally? Put your wallet where your mouth is.


which officers? the SWAT guys who made the raid, or the intel guys who told them where to go?



Whoever fucked up picks up the tab and loses their immunity.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 2:05:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Originally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By TheKill:
Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Nothing will change until the officers involved are held personally responsible.

Nothing like liability to get authorities to start thinking about what they are doing.

As of now, the popo could care less.

Taxpayers will pay any judgment.


Agree - officers SHOULD be personally liable. Really think you are fighting the good fight, doing it responsibly, and doing it morally? Put your wallet where your mouth is.


which officers? the SWAT guys who made the raid, or the intel guys who told them where to go?



Whoever fucked up picks up the tab and loses their immunity.


that's a fair position, as long as you're willing to deal with the consequent problems of underenforcement due to LE being more afraid of incurring liability than enforcing a law.

"we didn't want to incur the liability of profiling hasan, because even though we had a ton of indicators, they might possibly have been wrong".

don't get me wrong––the city damn well should pay, and there should be serious repercussions for those officers who screwed up. but being simplistic with a policy of direct personal liability would seem to deter effective law enforcement.

zero tolerance = zero thought.

Link Posted: 11/25/2009 2:19:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sirensong:
that's a fair position, as long as you're willing to deal with the consequent problems of underenforcement due to LE being more afraid of incurring liability than enforcing a law.



I'm COMPLETELY ok with this.

100% OK.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 2:21:17 PM EDT
Since they didn't put up a fight when SWAT showed up the first time why should anyone pay them? What are they going to do if the PD doesn't reimburse them? Cry in the fetal position?


People take you more seriously and pay attention to your problems when you give them a violent alternative. Look at North Korea...
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 2:22:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Originally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By TheKill:
Originally Posted By Beachjumper12:
Nothing will change until the officers involved are held personally responsible.

Nothing like liability to get authorities to start thinking about what they are doing.

As of now, the popo could care less.

Taxpayers will pay any judgment.


Agree - officers SHOULD be personally liable. Really think you are fighting the good fight, doing it responsibly, and doing it morally? Put your wallet where your mouth is.


which officers? the SWAT guys who made the raid, or the intel guys who told them where to go?



Whoever fucked up picks up the tab and loses their immunity.


that's a fair position, as long as you're willing to deal with the consequent problems of underenforcement due to LE being more afraid of incurring liability than enforcing a law.

"we didn't want to incur the liability of profiling hasan, because even though we had a ton of indicators, they might possibly have been wrong".

don't get me wrong––the city damn well should pay, and there should be serious repercussions for those officers who screwed up. but being simplistic with a policy of direct personal liability would seem to deter effective law enforcement.

zero tolerance = zero thought.



Also doesn't zero liability = zero thought?

If the dept is going to cover you, the taxpayers will cover your costs and the union will protect your job then why will you use common sense and follow rules
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 2:38:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2009 2:38:50 PM EDT by Cowboy1967]
So how much would it have cost the city to hang a new door? Hell if they had to build a new door case it would have been cheaper then 3 hours of their lawyers time.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 2:54:27 PM EDT
So they used explosives to make entry?

Would other departments have used explosives under the same circumstance?
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:00:11 PM EDT
http://www.josephscalia.com/

What does El Pelon mean?
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:10:03 PM EDT
it means "The Bald One"
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:11:21 PM EDT
Somebody screwed this up and in not following up, the city is going to pick up a bigger tab than needed. Mistakes happen, as a homeowner, taxpayer, and citizen, I can accept this. The SWAT team did what they do, they break some shit looking for scumbags. Somebody with the means to fix this should have stepped up. Public relations or somebody should have made arrangements to make it right and done it all. Now, these folks who were too lazy to have the door fixed have a "legitimate" case. Damage control is about minimizing negativity, whether its image, reputation or expense.
This is a big bobble and should cost someone their job.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:13:33 PM EDT
"The police apparently were searching for three armed-robbery suspects"

I've got to think that people with three arms would stand out from the crowd...

Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:15:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HK_Goblin:
Since they didn't put up a fight when SWAT showed up the first time why should anyone pay them? What are they going to do if the PD doesn't reimburse them? Cry in the fetal position?


People take you more seriously and pay attention to your problems when you give them a violent alternative. Look at North Korea...


NK has SWAT teams?

Anyway, a cheap way out of this is to have a team of carpenters assigned to follow the SWATs and fix stuff on the spot when they screw up.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:19:59 PM EDT
UMMMMM..... that is not the whole story. It doesn't make any sense.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:26:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gunmonkey:
Mistakes happen, as a homeowner, taxpayer, and citizen, I can accept this.


I don't accept mistakes when lives are on the line.

Keep the mediocrity in your yard.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:30:44 PM EDT
I'm a big police supporter like sponsored FOP golf tourney last few years now but would award Mr. Cruz 10x what he's asking for.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:34:03 PM EDT
The court does not issue a search warrant for a residence on a hunch... This story has a lot of holes.

A SWAT team or any officer for that matter doesn't force entry without a warrant (fresh pursuit excluded).

This thread is going to fill with opinions based off a very small amount of information.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:34:54 PM EDT
Cops are using explosive charges to breach, WTF, is this Iraq or something??
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:38:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Danj:
So they used explosives to make entry?

Would other departments have used explosives under the same circumstance?


Where in the hell did you come up with that. TO MUCH TV I think
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:39:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2009 3:40:31 PM EDT by Danj]

Originally Posted By JSparks:
Originally Posted By Danj:
So they used explosives to make entry?

Would other departments have used explosives under the same circumstance?


Where in the hell did you come up with that. TO MUCH TV I think

Originally Posted By El-cid:
SWAT Team Blows Up Wrong Door

LAS VEGAS (CN) - North Las Vegas police blew up a family's door



Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:40:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Backstop:
Originally Posted By gunmonkey:
Mistakes happen, as a homeowner, taxpayer, and citizen, I can accept this.


I don't accept mistakes when lives are on the line.

Keep the mediocrity in your yard.


Really? What do you do for a living, and have you ever made a mistake?
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:40:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kstanton:
Originally Posted By sirensong:
that's a fair position, as long as you're willing to deal with the consequent problems of underenforcement due to LE being more afraid of incurring liability than enforcing a law.



I'm COMPLETELY ok with this.

100% OK.
I rarely post "+1", but this is one of those occasions where the quoted poster nailed it. So, +1.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:41:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Cops are using explosive charges to breach, WTF, is this Iraq or something??


No NO NO There isn't one thing about EXPLOSIVES . Some couch potato with The Unit in his dreams came up with that BS
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:42:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Danj:

Originally Posted By JSparks:
Originally Posted By Danj:
So they used explosives to make entry?

Would other departments have used explosives under the same circumstance?


Where in the hell did you come up with that. TO MUCH TV I think

Originally Posted By El-cid:
SWAT Team Blows Up Wrong Door

LAS VEGAS (CN) - North Las Vegas police blew up a family's door





Alright I didn't read in thoroughly Im a Dumbass for sure
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:43:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JSparks:
Originally Posted By Danj:

Originally Posted By JSparks:
Originally Posted By Danj:
So they used explosives to make entry?

Would other departments have used explosives under the same circumstance?


Where in the hell did you come up with that. TO MUCH TV I think

Originally Posted By El-cid:
SWAT Team Blows Up Wrong Door

LAS VEGAS (CN) - North Las Vegas police blew up a family's door





Alright I didn't read in thoroughly Im a Dumbass for sure


X2
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:43:28 PM EDT
somebody needs to sit down and have a beer with them at the white house
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:45:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunmonkey:
Somebody screwed this up and in not following up, the city is going to pick up a bigger tab than needed. Mistakes happen, as a homeowner, taxpayer, and citizen, I can accept this. The SWAT team did what they do, they break some shit looking for scumbags. Somebody with the means to fix this should have stepped up. Public relations or somebody should have made arrangements to make it right and done it all. Now, these folks who were too lazy to have the door fixed have a "legitimate" case. Damage control is about minimizing negativity, whether its image, reputation or expense.
This is a big bobble and should cost someone their job.

Are you talking about the homeowner here?

They were promised the city would fix the door. So they are lazy because they waited for the city to make it right like they promised?

They didn't have a legitimate case the moment the SWAT team fucked up their door?
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:47:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:50:10 PM EDT
If a group of armed home invaders busted down your door looking for a cache of drugs they believed to be in your home, then realized they had the wrong house and apologized for it, does that make it ok?

Let's assume they dragged you and your wife and children out of bed half clothed and made you sit outside while they figured out that the drugs they wanted to steal were a few houses down the street. When they realize their mistake, they apologize and nobody is really physically harmed except for a scratch here and there from being dragged out of bed.

Should they be forgiven, or go to jail for invading your home?
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:50:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Cops are using explosive charges to breach, WTF, is this Iraq or something??


Been using them for years, cops taught the military.


If this was a real wrong house raid, then a carpenter should have been there the next morning and a PD car sitting in the front yard till it was repaired.

You break it, you own it, you fix it.
And your ok with this?
MachineGuns(M240B, M2s)
Armor personnel carriers
Attack helos
When is enough, enough...

Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:54:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2009 3:56:14 PM EDT by Backstop]
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By Backstop:
Originally Posted By gunmonkey:
Mistakes happen, as a homeowner, taxpayer, and citizen, I can accept this.


I don't accept mistakes when lives are on the line.

Keep the mediocrity in your yard.


Really? What do you do for a living, and have you ever made a mistake?


Currently, an industrial electrician.

Currently, I'm the Foreman for the QA/QC/Commissioning Dept.

Currently, gathering my transcripts to apply to the Physicians Asst Program here in town.

Currently, retired from 22 years with the mil; 20 years active duty, then 2 years contractual.

Yes, I have made mistakes. But I catch them before any harm is done.

I have never made one single medication error, misdiagnosis, etc. in those 22 years.

If you think it's OK to make a mistake and blow and go on the wrong house, then I can't help you.

Your pseudo-condescending tone make me believe that's the case.

What do you do for a living, and how many mistakes are acceptable to you in your profession?
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:55:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2009 4:02:45 PM EDT by Danj]

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Cops are using explosive charges to breach, WTF, is this Iraq or something??


Been using them for years, cops taught the military.


If this was a real wrong house raid, then a carpenter should have been there the next morning and a PD car sitting in the front yard till it was repaired.

You break it, you own it, you fix it.
And your ok with this?
MachineGuns(M240B, M2s)
Armor personnel carriers
Attack helos
When is enough, enough...

I personally have no problems with domestic LE agencies doing an explosives entry. As long as it is a quick, safe, and efficient entry.

I am pretty sure many large departments have belt fed machine guns, apc, armed helos already. I am sure federal agencies have had these assets for MANY years.

The issue here is how the police department handled the situation after the fucked up raid. I would be willing to bet if they handled it better like fixing the stuff they broke and putting a patrol car outside this lawsuit would never have happened and we would have never heard about it.

With the vast amount of forceable entries and search warrants conducted in a city they are bound to have a few fuck ups. It sucks but mistakes happen we are all human. Same reason why your Dr. has insurance.

Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:56:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2009 3:56:53 PM EDT by sporter]
Need more facts...

We need to hear their side of the story..

Isolated Incident #3509734095872345

Link Posted: 11/25/2009 3:59:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Merrell:
"The police apparently were searching for three armed-robbery suspects"

I've got to think that people with three arms would stand out from the crowd...


I LOLd :)
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 4:04:54 PM EDT
When this happens it should mean that at least 1 person has permanently lost a career in law enforcement.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 4:05:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Cops are using explosive charges to breach, WTF, is this Iraq or something??


Been using them for years, cops taught the military.


If this was a real wrong house raid, then a carpenter should have been there the next morning and a PD car sitting in the front yard till it was repaired.

You break it, you own it, you fix it.
And your ok with this?
MachineGuns(M240B, M2s)
Armor personnel carriers
Attack helos
When is enough, enough...



Some people here think it's perfectly fine to have police equiped like the .mil. I got hammered a few weeks ago for asking why swat teams in Louisiana were wearing ACU's while shooting rodents from the bed of a pickup truck.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 4:08:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By STRIKE504:
Some people here think it's perfectly fine to have police equiped like the .mil.


I'm one of those.

I want LEOs to have the best tng and equipt available.

But my thoughts on responsibility run amuck of the legal system.
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 4:12:01 PM EDT
I really do not even believe they use Explosives on a residential home thats waaaaayyyyyyy over doing it
Link Posted: 11/25/2009 4:13:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HK_Goblin:
Since they didn't put up a fight when SWAT showed up the first time why should anyone pay them? What are they going to do if the PD doesn't reimburse them? Cry in the fetal position?


People take you more seriously and pay attention to your problems when you give them a violent alternative. Look at North Korea...


I have seen plenty of dumb posts in GD, but this one is leading the way over the past month or so...

Yeah, it's ALWAYS a better idea to shoot it out with a SWAT team while your family is present than to sue for damages while everyone is physically ok.

Brilliant idea, sport.



pato

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