If my home is anything to go by they will not be tearing down my 150 y/o home to reclaim anything.

I really hate the engineered floors.  You can't go wrong with real wood.

Bueller?  Anyone?  

Tag. I'm in the exact same situation and appreciate the insight.

Quoted:
What about in a basement, on the concrete floor, and the humidity is like 85% unless I run a dehumidifier?

Bueller? Anyone?


No solid wood below grade is what I understand. In fact, I would probably opt not to put wood of any type.

I think Murphy's Law would be waiting to kick you in the balls with that.

The first time you did not run the dehumidifier or it failed or water got into the basement you would be screwed.

I knew that - now to convince the wife.

Good luck with that.

If she is anything like my wife.......

I'm a contractor. I do quality work, with only quality products. If you cannot afford quality, junk does not make a good substitute. Before that gets anyone bent out of shape, nobody wants their mechanic using chinese auto parts or their doctor using mexican pharamaceuticals, i'm not being arrogant, i'm trying provide the best service and value for your money.

Laminates are "slum lord" and "homeowner" grade products that look good for a few years. Their selling point is that anyone can install them with almost no tools or skill, and do a half ass job. Even when done to perfection, they still look half ass, and add no value to your home.

Engineered flooring, is a poor compromise. Its the .40 cal of flooring. One of its biggest selling points is that its "green". Using less real wood, and more recycled scraps and veneers, for almost the same price.

Solid hardwood is a quality product, and an investment in your home. It will last a lifetime and it will add value. Expansion/contraction is much less of a problem than in the past, now that most homes have year round climate control, and an actual r value to their insulation.

No wood product is ideal in all locations. Using solid/laminate//engineered in a wet location like a kitchen or bathroom is asking for trouble. As is using it in a wet basement. Proper testing can be done on concrete to determine if it is suitable. If its not, there are better alternatives.

So true.

Thanks for your reply.  I appreciate your opinion which is why I'm going to respond with some comments.

First correct me if I'm wrong:  Solid hardwood floors consist of a solid pieces of wood (1/2 - 3/4" thick) nailed down to a plywood subfloor.  Engineered flloors simply consist of thinner pieces of real hardwood (usually around 1/8 - 1/4" thick) that are already adhered to a plywood subfloor layer.  And we already know that plywood makes the best subfloor for real hardwood which is why you have to put a layer of plywood between real wood floors and concrete subflooring.  So the big difference between the two is overall thickness.  One of the draws that engineered floors have is that b/c the top (real hardwood) layer is thinner, when comparing engineered vs not-engineered of the same species of wood, you can save money OR you can get a BETTER quality wood for the top layer for less money when it's engineered.  Also, you save money if you have concrete floors b/c you don't need to add a layer of plywood like you do when installing 'real' hardwood.  2ndly, b/c the engineered top hardwood layer is actually adhered to the plywood sub-layer rather than being nailed together, that there's better dimensional stability.  Because both 'real' hardwood and engineered hardwood floors have a real hardwood surface (unlike laminate flooring), it is therefore impossible to tell the difference if comparing with identical species.  That being said, it is not unusual to see some engineered wood floors using higher quality wood than regular or 'real' hardwood floors.

In the little time that I've been shopping for wood floors, I have NEVER been told that a reason to get engineered wood floors is b/c it's green.

Lastly, for an average home, the cost difference between a quality engineered wood floor and solid hardwood is maybe about $5k.  Anyone who thinks that has a major impact on resale value is foolish.  Unless the floor is in immaculate condition and to the buyers exact taste, most buyers will completely change out the floors of a home they purchase as well as repaint.

links to explain the difference between 'engineered' and 'laminate'?

IBTP? Sounds like the thread is leaning toward solid hardwoods now...

Several years ago I was in charge of the warranty dept of a large building corp. Our #1 warranty claim was due to traditional sand & finish hardwood. It was one area of constant customer complaint. We analyzed the problem and switched to engineered hardwood. It fell off the radar almost completely. Knowing what I know today. I would no more put in sand & finish than I would window single pane windows.

Pmc

Here ya go...

http://flooring.builddirect.com/Engineered-Hardwood-Floors/Engineered-Hardwood-Flooring-FAQ_8804.aspx

ETA:

Laminate is like having a picture of solid hardwood glued to a plywood surface.  The top surface is not real wood.  It is more like a hard, think, plastic film.

Engineered wood is an actual layer of real solid hardwood a few millimeters thick (or more) that is adhered to a plywood surface using glue, heat, and high pressure.  (From the above link)  The product thus has the natural characteristics of the selected wood species as opposed to a photographic layer. The “engineered” product has been designed to provide greater stability, particularly where moisture or heat pose problems for solid hardwood floors.   The top hardwood layer is the same genuine hardwood you have in solid hardwood floors.

Under adverse conditions, solid hardwood floors can warp, cup, swell or split apart. Engineered hardwood flooring overcomes these problems by constructing a multiple-ply plank which counteracts twisting and remains flat and intact. This makes engineered hardwood flooring a better choice for installation over radiant heat sources, over concrete whether it’s below grade or above, and in rainy climates.

I'm really tempted to post a poll but the problem I'm seeing is that 9 out of 10 people who've posted in this thread don't actually know what engineered wood floors are OR they think they are laminate.  So you can imagine that if this proportion of people (who are actually interested enough in the subject to post in this thread) are getting it wrong, then the average armchair commando who clicks in simply b/c they see a poll will get it wrong too.  I mean, just by name the terms "Solid Hardwood Floors" sound more desireable than "Engineered Wood Floors".

I'd prefer to read what people actually have to say where their knowledge on the subject can more fairly be judged rather than their drive by poll selection of people who actually know nothing.

So "engineered hardwood flooring" is a fancy name for "veneered plywood/particleboard flooring"?

No.

It seems from your responses to some of the posts that you are really leaning toward engineered.

If you can really save that much scratch go for it. I don't think it is a bad product.

It doesn't seem like anyone telling you to go with solid is swaying your opinion much.

Beautiful home you have! What lake doyou live on and are you back in the woods? Awesome set up!!!

I suppose when plywood first came out, it was denounced as a POS building material because after all it is just thin veneers of wood glued together and not SOLID wood. Of course it is now proven that pound for pound, plywood can be as strong or stronger than steel in certain applications. It doesn't expand and contract nearly as much as solid wood. It is a far better use of wood resources. It comes in standard sizes. Well, the list can go on.

Engineered flooring may very well be the only thing around not too long from now. As more and more hardwood trees are cut down, supplies will decrease and obviously that means less wood for floors. Now, certainly there will be trees around to supply wood, but not the quality needed for floors. You know, clear, healthy older growth.

I realize that people think oak is like kryptonite and that it's indestructible, but there are far more beautiful and harder woods that grow in Africa and South America and Asia. Mostly the former two. You can get a wood floor that's 2, 2.5, even 3 times harder than the North American species for the same price as them with engineer vs. solid. Guess what, because it's that much harder and has a factory applied finish, you probably won't need to sand and refinish them unless you abuse the floor. Not to mention all the other colors, grain patterns, and width/length sizes you can get with engineered floors.

I'm sure there is the possibility of delimitation with engineered floors if they basically sit in water or if you have a flood. Then again, solid floors don't exactly come out of a situation like that without permanent, irreparable damage either.

I'm sure some people will never be satisfied with engineered floors and that's fine. However, for the rest, especially when it becomes the only real viable option in the future engineered floors are an excellent choice.

I originally was dead set on solid hardwood.  This was when I knew virtually nothing about the subject.  Solid hardwood seemed like the logical best choice for any/all applications.  Then I went to a couple of showrooms and actually got to see first hand and up close the differences.  One showroom that has been in business for decades had a few examples of identical species of woods in both engineered and solid that had been installed side by side for about 10 years.  Neither had ever been sanded or refinished, they both felt the same to walk on, but the engineered one looked better b/c the pieces were still tightly fitted whereas the solid ones had gaps.  You could also see the cupping and uneveness of the solid floor whereas the engineered looked almost newly installed.  If anything, I started out biased towards solid hardwoods but it was my first hand research that changed my mind.  Now, I'm just trying to find any excuse I can to NOT go with engineered and so far, there's not a single person that has been able to convince me.  It has nothing to do with saving money.  In actuality, the engineered stuff I was looking at cost just as much as many of the solid stuff b/c I was looking at higher quality hardwoods with the engineered.  I simply want something that's durable and that will look good for the next 25+ years.  My floors will not be some sort of heirloom that will get passed down from generation to generation.  I'm hoping my future kin can and will do a lot better than me.

I do believe that engineered floors were created as a solution to many problems MODERN day homes have with real solid wood floors.  I do believe that engineered wood floors are designed for durability and when compared with identical species in solid hardwood floors that are simply nailed down to a plywood subfloor, that the engineered floors will look better for longer periods of time.  And nowadays, engineered floors are being made with top layers as thick as the sandable portion of traditional solid hardwood floors and therefore the arguments for going with all solid hardwood are becoming fewer.

So yeah, I've KIND OF made up my mind.  I'm just trying to make sure of my decision by seeing if anyone can talk me out of it.

ETA:  Can someone please explain (remind) to me why you cant install real solid hardwood to concrete why you can with engineered?  I noticed that someone above posted about their solid hardwood floors installed over concrete.

I just  finished putting down 750 sq feet of floating engineered oak flooring. we actually love the floating floors because it is easier on our feet and on our dog as it has a little give to it as the solids are well solid like our tile floors. the floor my wife picked is a rough hewn gun stock oak which looks really nice, but boy my azz is whipped

3/4" solid santos mahogany and would do it again.  It is BEAUTIFUL, and will only get better with age.

No reason for anyone to talk you out of the decision. Sounds like you have done quite a bit of research and the engineered fits your situation.

It's not that you can't install solid over concrete. There are a number of moisture cured urethane glues that are rated for 3/4" solid gluedown over concrete.

The problem is that moisture from the slab can cause cupping or expansion issues. So you need to use a vapor barrier etc. before install. It is usually more trouble than it's worth and the pro's don't recommend it for those reasons.

FWIW I have installed hardwood over slab on grade with proper glue and moisture barrier and have never had a problem. It was not my favorite option but the situation dictated it.

Good luck with your project. I'm sure whatever you pick will look great!

my dad owns a floor installation co., and swears by solid hardwood floors. It's what he has installed at his home. (Bruce)

solid!

Hey - I like the .40 - better than a 9MM IMO and closer to the .45.

So you read all of that and then somehow manage to think he means the exact opposite of what he just explained??



Engineered uses real hard wood



Laminate uses particle board...



Fricking don't just read make sure you understand what is being said.