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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 3/17/2001 4:43:30 AM EDT
I fired one round of 9mm Corbon 115 grain JHP out of my Sig 228 into the back lower corner of my vest. Distance was 10 feet, and rolled carpet was behind the vest to help simulate a human body. Velocity was 1305 FPS. The round did not penetrate the vest. The vest was a police trade in I bought at a gunshow for $75, plus an extra $10 for the trauma plate. Brand is "Point Blank". Threat level is not listed. I suppose I comprimisd the integrity of the rear of this vest by doing this, but I had to know if it would work. And on a side note, I now have a SAR-3 (AK copy in .223). I'll keep everyone posted on it's accuracy, etc. Balming
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 5:47:09 AM EDT
You "suppose". Yeah, it's essentially worthless to you now, at least that panel. Never ever wear a vest that's actually had a round fired into it. Buy another vest. At least you only have 75 dollars invested.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 7:05:55 AM EDT
Balming, do your test again with an AR15 and various rounds of ammo. Could ya do one with a 12 gauge shotgun and 3 inch magnum slugs. Post some pictures if you can. GEF
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 7:07:44 AM EDT
Yes, I would consider the vest's integrity compromised now as well. Just go on eBay and you might find somebody selling a new rear panel that you can buy or more likely, you can buy a whole new vest for $75-100 (depending on size, condition, and threat level). The vests on eBay are generally used but in very good to excellent condition. There are some great deals there in ballistic armor.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 7:12:15 AM EDT
GEF, I've already fired a Federal 2 3/4 rifled slug at a level II vest: Went throught both panels like they were paper. Jay Arizona
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 7:14:18 AM EDT
acually, someone should do that. not just vests, but other comerical armor. i always see it on tv. they show how tough the armored limo is by emptying an UZI into it. "WOW that scary black weapon must be the mosat horrible weapon ever, but that limo took it." i would like to see the same test conducted with the shooter having a not as scary 300win.mag. hunting rifle that he could get at his local sporting goods store.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 7:17:08 AM EDT
The owner of second chance body armor put out a video years ago which showed him shooting up various items, including his product, with a variety of weapons. Corny but informative. I'll have to dust off that video one of these days........
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 7:40:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2001 7:51:19 AM EDT by BMANSAR15]
G_e_F - I can tell you with certainty that just about any 5.56mm round will go through both sides of any level soft body armor (I-IIIA). Threat level III is necessary to stop a 5.56mm round. CAR15M4 - I'm kinda surprised that a 12 guage slug made it through both sides of a level II vest. I would have thought that because of the huge cross-section and soft lead, the vest might have stopped it (or at least the second panel would). Hmm, very interesting. Thanks. This sort of thing is fun, isn't it? I had a "blast" (get it?) when I did my informal (but a lot of fun) ballistic testing on a USGI PASGT Kevlar helmet. That was great. I've done others as well. One of my good friend's father is a LEO in one of the local PD's and he's invited me along when he tests out various body armor samples. He invites me because then he can use my AR! [:)]
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 10:32:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2001 10:46:33 AM EDT by HANGFIRE]
Balming you should get with Jet Flyer and use .223 and .308 at say 100-300-600 and do pics. Slomo video as the rounds impact.Some of that "ammo swat should be using" would be interesting.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 11:26:37 AM EDT
You mean you weren't wearing it when you tested it? Wuss! [:D]
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 11:38:10 AM EDT
I remember a story about a man that wore his vest and had his friend shoot him with a .22. When the .22 didn't hurt him he put a phone book between the vest and his body and has his friend try a 12 guage. It broke all his ribs. LMAO
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 12:12:15 PM EDT
Yeah I remember that too... somewhere in Canada.. Wonder what would of happened without the phone book...............
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 12:41:23 PM EDT
Actually, only the rear of my vest has been comprimised. It means I won't be able to retreat, only advance ;) If I find another vest, I'll use this one as a test medium for the rounds you guys have mentioned. Balming
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 1:06:59 PM EDT
I have a video called Dangerous weapons and this guy lets his friend shoot him with a 308 from like 5-8 feet away and not only 1 time but like 5 times i think the vest was made by second chance or something
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 2:57:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 5:07:15 PM EDT
Balming...........The rear panel of your vest is probably OK as far as stopping additional rounds is concerned, most body armor should stop multiple rounds that impact close to one another, although I would not make a habit of shooting up the vest that I were going to wear. Don't bother shooting soft, concealable body armor with .223 or .308, unless rated to stop them, if it does it is a fluke. CAR15M4.......There have actually been several incidents where level II vests have defeated 12 gauge slugs, the human body is actually a very good back stop for body armor, supportive, but flexible. Ar_15_Sniper.........The gentleman actually shot in that video is Richard Davis, owner of Second Chance body armor and it is one of his vests that he is wearing.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 5:25:29 PM EDT
BTW - All threat level II vests - or "Soft Body Armour" as they are properly known as, are for handgun rounds only. They are not capable of withstanding anything more. I conducted a ballistics test on a vest for my Department one time. I fired .44mag, .44 spec., .357 158grn and 125 grn JHP, .45 auto 230 grn ball., .38 spec. 158 grn LHP and round nose 158 grn, and 9mm 115 grn JHP and 124 grn Ball. This was about 18 years ago using a level II vest with bundled news papers as backing. The .38's,9 mm,.45 and .44 spec. put a dimple in the vest with the dimple getting bigger with weight, and a small indentation in the backing. The .357 158grn penetrated about 1/3 of the way through the vest and did noticeable damage to the backing. (this is called "Blunt Trama") The 125grn .357 was the Remington Peters round (my favorite at that time). It penetrated over half way through the panel and did greater damage to the backing. The daddy load - .44 mag, 240 grn JHP penetrated almost through the vest and did massive damage to the backing. To put in into perspective the amount of damage to the paper was about the size of your fist. Complete disruption. The same would happen to a body. It actually might be enough to kill you even with no penetration. I have heard of this with shotgun slugs. Now - the Kevlar will degrade in tensile strength with age and exposure to ultraviolet rays. After five years most Departments will replace a vest. Some will go 10 years if not worn much and kept in a closet or locker. Also a vest that has been completely soaked temporarily loses some of its tensile strength.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 5:35:39 PM EDT
I had my wife wear mine during the test firing. There was significant bruising afterward and no penetration for quite sometime..
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 5:47:48 PM EDT
Mole eye, that was good, real good. best laugh I've had all day.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 5:59:06 PM EDT
Mole Eye, If your wife reads that post there may well be some significant bruising.
Link Posted: 3/17/2001 6:03:43 PM EDT
He's going to be Mole "Black" Eye after his wife reads the above. [:D]
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 2:48:40 PM EDT
Mole Eye, remember Loraina Bobbit? She's now a spokesperson for Case cutlery and her ex is working for Snap On tools.
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 3:33:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BMANSAR15: G_e_F - I can tell you with certainty that just about any 5.56mm round will go through both sides of any level soft body armor (I-IIIA). Threat level III is necessary to stop a 5.56mm round. CAR15M4 - I'm kinda surprised that a 12 guage slug made it through both sides of a level II vest. I would have thought that because of the huge cross-section and soft lead, the vest might have stopped it (or at least the second panel would). Hmm, very interesting. Thanks. This sort of thing is fun, isn't it? I had a "blast" (get it?) when I did my informal (but a lot of fun) ballistic testing on a USGI PASGT Kevlar helmet. That was great. I've done others as well. One of my good friend's father is a LEO in one of the local PD's and he's invited me along when he tests out various body armor samples. He invites me because then he can use my AR! [:)]
View Quote
I've shot a level III vest both with and without steel plates with 5.56 and 7.62 NATO not to mention quite a few other handgun and rifle calibers. Level III with steel plates will stop 5.56 ball on the way OUT, but not going in. It would not stop a single rifle round fired into it at 25m. 7.62 went through both steel plates and vest panels like they were not even there.
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 6:15:56 PM EDT
Shrike9 - There are going to be some upset "spec ops/SWAT types" if they read your post above. Your observations may make them a tad nervous given that NIJ threat level III (not IIIA) hard armor vests are supposed to be able to stop anything up to and including 7.62x54 NATO (.308 Win) rounds at close range. They are rated to stop 5.56mm SS109/M855 rounds as well. Either you had a faulty vest during your testing or the NIJ is not rating vests correctly. If anybody out there is depending on a level III vest to keep yourself from being "ventilated" by a rifle round, you might want to double check the vest. In any case, this proves the point that regardless of the type of vest you're wearing, your first priority is to make sure you don't get shot in the first place!
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 7:24:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2001 7:41:44 PM EDT by sgtar15]
Other than Ebay or other auctions, does anyone have a link to where I can buy a used vest? And are all used vest been shoot at ot is there a law controling this? Thanks sgtar15[img]http://www.stopstart.redhotant.com/aircraft2/f4a.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 8:18:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mole Eye: I had my wife wear mine during the test firing. There was significant bruising afterward and no penetration for quite sometime..
View Quote
Strange.......... very strange. If plan A is to have your wife take multiple shots while you reload and try to breach the vest; I would stick with plan A.
Link Posted: 3/18/2001 10:00:52 PM EDT
This is a very odd thread. Just to add my little nitpicking 2 cents:
Originally Posted By BMANSAR15: Shrike9 - ...anything up to and including 7.62x54 NATO (.308 Win) ...
View Quote
Last I checked, 7.62 x 54 was an Eastern Block round, good ol' .308 Win is 7.62 x 51. Adam
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 3:13:34 AM EDT
I stand corrected. I meant 7.62x51. Thanks for bringing that to my attention Adam. [:)]
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 10:58:31 AM EDT
On shotgun slugs and penetration- I was shooting with a police friend about ten years ago, and he had a 12"x12" section of bulletproof glass, like they use in banks. We shot it with .223, 9mm, .357 MAG, and .38. None of them did much of anything. Then we hit it with a 12ga 2 3/4" 1oz slug. It went through that glass and did not stop. Kinda cool.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 11:42:06 AM EDT
...12ga, .308, .223 even if the round is stopped, the blunt traum is probably going to do major damage, unless it hits square on the trauma plate. Any way, two to center mass,if no results go for H/H, if all else fails run like hell ;-)
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