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Mastadon
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:38:52 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 4:18:46 PM by Mastadon]
While this is news to me, it isn't a new story. It's a couple of months old, but a search didn't turn anything up. If this is a dupe, sorry. Anyway:

Link to full story


THE ATF STRIKES AGAIN !!!


BUT THIS TIME THEY ARE PERSECUTING AN AMERICAN HERO!

THE GOVERNMENT SEIZED THE PERSONAL FIREARMS COLLECTION OF AN FBI SPECIAL AGENT WHO IS A DISABLED ARMY VETERAN!

THEN THE GOVERNMENT INDICTED THE 13 YEAR F.B.I. SPECIAL AGENT, CHARGING HIM WITH DEALING FIREARMS WITHOUT A LICENSE!

JOHN SHIPLEY DID NOTHING WRONG! JOHN BOUGHT AND SOLD GUNS TO ENHANCE HIS COLLECTION AND TO SUPPORT HIS HOBBY!

IF THEY CAN PERSECUTE HIM, THEN WHO IS NEXT???

Below is a photo of our son John Shipley on one of the proudest days of our lives. John is being congratulated and awarded his Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) badge and credentials by the former Director of the FBI, Louis J. Freeh. That was thirteen years ago and as his parents it was a day we will never forget. John was twenty-six years old when he graduated, one of the youngest agents in his class. He knew that his calling was to be in Law Enforcement in some capacity when he was in middle school. He excelled in football and wrestling in high school and received a Bachelor of Science Degree in Criminology from Indiana State University in 1992. During his four years of college, John was enrolled in Army Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program and upon graduation, received a Commission as a 2nd Lieutenant in the United States Army Reserve.

After graduation from college, John came home and announced that he “had to join the local volunteer fire department”. His goal was to become an Emergency Medical Technician because he felt that would help him get accepted into the FBI. John became a fireman and an EMT and then went on active duty in the US Army to attend the Aviation Branch School and helicopter flight training where he earned ratings in the UH-1, Huey and the CH-47 Chinook helicopters. As a retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel and a Master Army Aviator, it was one of my proudest days to have the honor to pin Army Aviator Wings on my son upon his graduation from Army Flight School. John knew that his Army experience would be valuable as he sought his ultimate goal as a Special Agent in the FBI.

John went to the FBI office after he returned home to inquire about becoming an FBI agent. He needed three years of work experience so he continued his aviation duties with the Army Reserve and accepted a job as a Security Guard with Pinkerton Security. He was promoted to Account Manager and was given increased responsibilities. In 1996 he was selected to attend the FBI Academy.

After graduation from the academy John was assigned to the FBI office in El Paso, Texas and for the past thirteen (13) years has worked as a Special Agent. John was a
member of the Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team for 5 years, became a certified FBI Sniper in 2001 and has conducted many investigations. John was recognized with the Department of Justice / Federal Bureau of Investigation Certificate of Achievement from Director Robert S. Mueller in September 2002.


Today however is one of the saddest days of our lives. Our son has been falsely accused and charged with: Charge 1, 1 count, “Dealing Firearms Without A License”; Charge 2, 4 counts, “Causing a Firearms Dealer to Maintain False Records”; and Charge 3, 1 count, “False Statement”. John is “NOT GUILTY” and will plead so to each charge and every count at his arraignment on July 17, 2009. John has been placed upon leave without pay pending the outcome of this trial. His honor, integrity, and all that he has worked for, for the past 17 years has been destroyed right before our eyes.


As I understand it, the rule is you are a firearms dealer and subject to regulation if you sell regularly and with the primary purpose of earning a living. This guy bought/sold an average of about 1.3 guns per month, hardly enough to make a living. On one hand, I hate it for the guy and fear that the .gov will consider active collectors as dealers and start bringing the hammer down where it really isn't warranted.

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk brethren being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...

(Edited to change "ilk" to "brethren" because "ilk" was a poor choice of words and I understand that Shipley is not the same as Horiuchi. They do/did, however, work for the same agency that, at the time, thought Ruby Ridge and Waco were good ideas.)
The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
- Abraham Lincoln
Kharn
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:41:38 PM
Intent is also important. Being known as "the guy" to call in an area when someone wants a face-to-face transfer is a bad thing.

Kharn
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:41:55 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 3:43:03 PM by moc51ar]
If he hasn't done anything illegal, then he has nothing to fear, right?

Also, why isn't he getting free legal assistance from the government?
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:43:55 PM
Tag for link to credible, non-biased source.
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.
~Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:44:41 PM
we should really get this guy off the street because he would probably kill someone with those evil things


srsly, you would think there are more important things they could do. how many guns are used each day in crimes? and how many of those are acutaly registered?
I dont really know all the details but it seems to me like a non issue but something the ATF can get a successful prosecution on due to technicalities.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:46:07 PM
Originally Posted By Kharn:
Intent is also important. Being known as "the guy" to call in an area when someone wants a face-to-face transfer is a bad thing.

Kharn


This is true. Not a good thing to become this person. If others know, you are going to be in trouble.
FreeBear
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:48:14 PM

It's the dog's fault.
Is it that we have so often been told that violence is not the answer to everything that we fail to realize it IS the answer to some things?

Nemo Me Impune Lacesset.

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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:48:31 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 3:49:33 PM by sporter]
One of the guns he was traced to was used by a Cartel in Chihuahua Mexico.

That is why they are going after him.
moc51ar
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:50:18 PM
Originally Posted By sporter:
One of the guns he was traced to was used by a Cartel in Chihuahua Mexico.

That is why they are going after him.


Ahhhhh, the penny drops.
sporter
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:51:36 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 3:59:41 PM by sporter]
EL PASO, Texas — A high-powered rifle allegedly sold illegally by an El Paso FBI agent was used in a deadly Mexican drug cartel shootout last year, court records show.
According to a 2008 search warrant, agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives linked a .50-caliber rifle sold by FBI agent John T. Shipley to a March 2008 shootout between drug cartel fighters and Mexican army soldiers. An army captain and six cartel members were killed in the nearly three-hour shootout in Chihuahua, agents said in the warrant.
Shipley was arrested last week on charges that he sold weapons via a Web site without a license. He's also accused of lying to the ATF about who the real buyers were.
According to the search warrant, filed in court in May 2008 and obtained by The Associated Press Tuesday, Shipley sold the .50-caliber rifle to Luis Armando Rodriguez, a former El Paso County deputy sheriff convicted last year of illegally selling guns, who then sold it to a buyer in Mexico.
Shipley's lawyer, Robert J. Perez, did return a phone call seeking comment. Court records do not show if Shipley has entered a plea in the case.
According to the 16-page search warrant in Shipley's case, an ATF gun trace tied him to the weapon used in the 2008 shootout.
In a 13-page search warrant filed last year in Rodriguez's case, agents said Rodriguez was a member of a motorcycle club in Ciudad Juarez, just across the Rio Grande from El Paso, who often sold weapons to "Mexican officials."
Agents said Shipley told them he sold the rifle, complete with a scope, to Rodriguez in 2007 for about $8,300. Shipley also said he had previously sold Rodriguez another .50-caliber rifle for $11,000 and a third gun for about $3,300, according to the search warrant.
Shipley was not a licensed gun dealer at the time, according to investigators.
Legal gun sales in Mexico are strictly regulated, with most weapons, including high-powered hand guns and rifles, limited to use by the military. But countless guns are believed to be smuggled into Mexico from the U.S. every day. High-powered weapons are routinely used by warring cartels fighting among themselves and against the government.
More than 11,000 people have been killed in Mexico's drug war since President Felipe Calderon launched a national offensive against drug cartels shortly after taking office in 2006.
As the killings have mounted authorities on both sides of the border have launched efforts to stem the flow of weapons south and trace weapons found in Mexico.
xpired
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:53:04 PM
Originally Posted By sporter:
One of the guns he was traced to was used by a Cartel in Chihuahua Mexico.

That is why they are going after him.


Ya that's what I remember hearing as well. This guy wasn't selling his guns to the average American looking to protect himself. I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly what happened, but that is what I have been hearing.
Mastadon
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:53:43 PM

Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Tag for link to credible, non-biased source.

Yeah, the source I posted is definitely not the one I'd trust for a non-biased account of what's happening. Here are some other links I just dug up, but haven't had time to read in their entirety:

Examiner.com

KDBC

Albequerque Journal

El Paso Times
The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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Mastadon
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:55:22 PM

Originally Posted By xpired:
Originally Posted By sporter:
One of the guns he was traced to was used by a Cartel in Chihuahua Mexico.

That is why they are going after him.


Ya that's what I remember hearing as well. This guy wasn't selling his guns to the average American looking to protect himself. I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly what happened, but that is what I have been hearing.

So America really is responsible for arming the combatants in the Mexican drug war, only it's the fooking federales that are doing it!
The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
- Abraham Lincoln
joker581
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:55:26 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 3:57:39 PM by joker581]
Originally Posted By Mastadon:

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...[/div]




Kind of fucked up logic there. Lon Horiuchi's "ilk" would also include graduates of West Point and the U.S. Army Ranger School.

Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
KimberTLE45
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:56:47 PM
Apparently one of his guns turned up in a shootout in mexico, so they are stringing him up by the balls for it.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:58:32 PM
Originally Posted By sporter:
One of the guns he was traced to was used by a Cartel in Chihuahua Mexico.

That is why they are going after him.


Shipley sold the firearm to an El Paso sheriff deputy. And then it ended up down in Mexico.

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...


This is complete bullshit. Shipley did not do anything the average ARFcommer has done. He is a gun guy, and had nothing to do with ruby Ridge.

Tactical Response is having a raffle to raise funds for his defense.
http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/998104881/m/552104004
OK I am going to do a series of raffles for our friend and brother John Shipley that is being hounded by the ATF for selling guns without a license.

IF HE IS CONVICTED it will set a precedent that will mean each one of us will nmo longer be able to buy from or sell to an individual.

Look at this as a chance to win some training and help a brother.

PRIZE: Any 5 days of scheduled training in Camden the winner wants PLUS airfare (CONUS) PLUS gun rental PLUS ammunition PLUS transportation PLUS lodging PLUS a hell of a good time. Other restrictions may apply if I left out something. Value of this prize could be as much as $5,000.

Raffle will be September 15th. Winners will be posted on GOTX.

TO PURCHASE TICKETS ($5 each) please e-mail or call Marilyn at 731-676-2041 or Marilyn@TacticalResponse.com

KimberTLE45
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Posted: 9/10/2009 3:59:59 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 4:00:18 PM by KimberTLE45]
Oh.... And... DUPE!

Linky

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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:01:05 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 4:01:38 PM by sporter]
Not the smartest thing to sell 3 .50 caliber rifles to a Biker Gang guy from Mexico....
Mastadon
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:02:17 PM

Originally Posted By whomper:
Originally Posted By sporter:
One of the guns he was traced to was used by a Cartel in Chihuahua Mexico.

That is why they are going after him.


Shipley sold the firearm to an El Paso sheriff deputy. And then it ended up down in Mexico.

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...


This is complete bullshit. Shipley did not do anything the average ARFcommer has done. He is a gun guy, and had nothing to do with ruby Ridge.

Tactical Response is having a raffle to raise funds for his defense.
http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/998104881/m/552104004
OK I am going to do a series of raffles for our friend and brother John Shipley that is being hounded by the ATF for selling guns without a license.

IF HE IS CONVICTED it will set a precedent that will mean each one of us will nmo longer be able to buy from or sell to an individual.

Look at this as a chance to win some training and help a brother.

PRIZE: Any 5 days of scheduled training in Camden the winner wants PLUS airfare (CONUS) PLUS gun rental PLUS ammunition PLUS transportation PLUS lodging PLUS a hell of a good time. Other restrictions may apply if I left out something. Value of this prize could be as much as $5,000.

Raffle will be September 15th. Winners will be posted on GOTX.

TO PURCHASE TICKETS ($5 each) please e-mail or call Marilyn at 731-676-2041 or Marilyn@TacticalResponse.com


I don't know everything about the case, and I know that Shipley isn't Horiuchi, but if the guy really didn't do anything illegal and it's nothing that the average Arfcommer hasn't done, that just ups the ironic ante to me. I mean come on, a sniper who works for the same federal agency that instigated Ruby Ridge and Waco ends up getting his balls busted for simplyl engaging in a fully legal hobby? Maybe it's just me.
The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:03:37 PM
This is why I will always be a guy BUYER, and never a gun SELLER.

F-That. Alphabet soup crawling up my ass does not make me feel warm and cozy.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:05:25 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 4:06:21 PM by GlutealCleft]

Originally Posted By Mastadon:

Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Tag for link to credible, non-biased source.

Yeah, the source I posted is definitely not the one I'd trust for a non-biased account of what's happening.

Huh. When I read "He has sworn to uphold all of the laws of our country and I assure you he has.", I figured "Hey, some guy on the Internet assures me, that's got to be good enough, right?"


Mastadon
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:05:31 PM

Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Mastadon:

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...[/div]




Kind of fucked up logic there. Lon Horiuchi's "ilk" would also include graduates of West Point and the U.S. Army Ranger School.


Sure, and I know that Shipley isn't Horiuchi, but my point wasn't that it's good or bad that Shipley is going through what he's going through, just that federal law enforcement is eating one of their own on the same grounds that it would use to screw with a regular citizen. I make no judgements on Shipley because I don't know enough about what's going on.

BTW, just as being an FBI agent doesn't automatically make you grow devil horns, graduating West Point and/or US Army Ranger School doesn't automatically put a halo over your head.

The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:05:34 PM
Lol,

Good luck pal.

Not getting a dime from me.

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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:05:36 PM
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Mastadon:

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...[/div]




Kind of fucked up logic there. Lon Horiuchi's "ilk" would also include graduates of West Point and the U.S. Army Ranger School.



+1. Horiuchi is Horiuchi, not this guy. No point in getting pissed at them all just because they share a job description.
Mastadon
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:07:45 PM

Originally Posted By RileyS:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Mastadon:

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...[/div]




Kind of fucked up logic there. Lon Horiuchi's "ilk" would also include graduates of West Point and the U.S. Army Ranger School.



+1. Horiuchi is Horiuchi, not this guy. No point in getting pissed at them all just because they share a job description.

I know. That wasn't the point. See prior posts.
The people are masters of both Congress and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it!
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:09:41 PM
Originally Posted By sporter:
Not the smartest thing to sell 3 .50 caliber rifles to a Biker Gang guy from Mexico....


i think he will get nailed hard for this.......
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:13:02 PM
My question is how he got disabled.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:13:26 PM
Originally Posted By Mastadon:
While this is news to me, it isn't a new story. It's a couple of months old, but a search didn't turn anything up. If this is a dupe, sorry. Anyway:

Link to full story


THE ATF STRIKES AGAIN !!!


BUT THIS TIME THEY ARE PERSECUTING AN AMERICAN HERO!

THE GOVERNMENT SEIZED THE PERSONAL FIREARMS COLLECTION OF AN FBI SPECIAL AGENT WHO IS A DISABLED ARMY VETERAN!

THEN THE GOVERNMENT INDICTED THE 13 YEAR F.B.I. SPECIAL AGENT, CHARGING HIM WITH DEALING FIREARMS WITHOUT A LICENSE!

JOHN SHIPLEY DID NOTHING WRONG! JOHN BOUGHT AND SOLD GUNS TO ENHANCE HIS COLLECTION AND TO SUPPORT HIS HOBBY!

IF THEY CAN PERSECUTE HIM, THEN WHO IS NEXT???

Below is a photo of our son JohnShipley on one of the proudest days of our lives. John is beingcongratulated and awarded his Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)badge and credentials by the former Director of the FBI, Louis J.Freeh. That was thirteen years ago and as his parents it was a day wewill never forget. John was twenty-six years old when he graduated, oneof the youngest agents in his class. He knew that his calling was to bein Law Enforcement in some capacity when he was in middle school. Heexcelled in football and wrestling in high school and received aBachelor of Science Degree in Criminology from Indiana State Universityin 1992. During his four years of college, John was enrolled in ArmyReserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program and upon graduation,received a Commission as a 2nd Lieutenant in the United States Army Reserve.

After graduationfrom college, John came home and announced that he “had to join thelocal volunteer fire department”. His goal was to become an EmergencyMedical Technician because he felt that would help him get acceptedinto the FBI. John became a fireman and an EMT and then went on activeduty in the US Army to attend the Aviation Branch School and helicopterflight training where he earned ratings in the UH-1, Huey and the CH-47Chinook helicopters. As a retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel and aMaster Army Aviator, it was one of my proudest days to have the honorto pin Army Aviator Wings on my son upon his graduation from ArmyFlight School. John knew that his Army experience would be valuable ashe sought his ultimate goal as a Special Agent in the FBI.

Johnwent to the FBI office after he returned home to inquire about becomingan FBI agent. He needed three years of work experience so hecontinued his aviation duties with the Army Reserve and accepted a jobas a Security Guard with Pinkerton Security. He was promoted to AccountManager and was given increased responsibilities. In 1996 he wasselected to attend the FBI Academy.

Aftergraduation from the academy John was assigned to the FBI office in ElPaso, Texas and for the past thirteen (13) years has worked as aSpecial Agent. John was a
member of theSpecial Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team for 5 years, became acertified FBI Sniper in 2001 and has conducted many investigations.John was recognized with the Department of Justice / Federal Bureau ofInvestigation Certificate of Achievement from Director Robert S.Mueller in September 2002.


Todayhowever is one of the saddest days of our lives. Our son has beenfalsely accused and charged with: Charge 1, 1 count, “Dealing FirearmsWithout A License”; Charge 2, 4 counts, “Causing a Firearms Dealer toMaintain False Records”; and Charge 3, 1 count, “False Statement”. John is “NOT GUILTY” and will plead so to each charge and every countat his arraignment on July 17, 2009. John has been placed upon leavewithout pay pending the outcome of this trial. His honor, integrity,and all that he has worked for, for the past 17 years has beendestroyed right before our eyes.


As I understand it, the rule is you are a firearms dealer and subject to regulation if you sell regularly and with the primary purpose of earning a living. This guy bought/sold an average of about 1.3 guns per month, hardly enough to make a living. On one hand, I hate it for the guy and fear that the .gov will consider active collectors as dealers and start bringing the hammer down where it really isn't warranted.

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...


Your comparison to Lon Horiuchi is unjust.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:17:03 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 4:17:39 PM by Maryland_Shooter]
Originally Posted By sporter:
One of the guns he was traced to was used by a Cartel in Chihuahua Mexico.

That is why they are going after him.


Source?

ETA: I see it
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:19:45 PM
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Mastadon:

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...[/div]




Kind of fucked up logic there. Lon Horiuchi's "ilk" would also include graduates of West Point and the U.S. Army Ranger School.



No - Horiuchi is a murderer, not so of the others.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:19:53 PM
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:22:40 PM
So this raises a good question.

How many firearms can you sell in a year before you are considered a dealer?

I hope it's a number larger than one.
I'm tired of reading this horseshit. Seriously, I've come to the point where I've decided that there can never be a jury of my peers, because my peers aren't this fucking retarded.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:24:19 PM
Can't any of you see the problem here? He was doing something to be profitable. As a government agent, that is UNACCEPTABLE.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:29:19 PM
Originally Posted By Mastadon:


BTW, just as being an FBI agent doesn't automatically make you grow devil horns, graduating West Point and/or US Army Ranger School doesn't automatically put a halo over your head.


Nobody said it did. You said in your first post that you find it "satisfying" that someone who had a job similar to what Horiuchi had was getting burned. The man has no apparent connection to Horiuchi other than being "sniper certified" in the FBI(although not a member of the HRT), so branding him as part of Horiuchi's ilk is quite a stretch.
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:38:47 PM
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Mastadon:

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...[/div]




Kind of fucked up logic there. Lon Horiuchi's "ilk" would also include graduates of West Point and the U.S. Army Ranger School.



No - Horiuchi is a murderer, not so of the others.


Yeah, and Horiuchi is not the one the article is about. The guy in the article wasn't even on the HRT. Hell, for all any of us know, he may have never even met Horiuchi. If you want to link someone to Horiuchi by virtue of them simply having a similar job in the same organization at different times, you better count in every West Point graduate, Ranger School graduate, and Infantry officer in the Army, because Horiuchi was all of those things before he joined the FBI.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:44:50 PM
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 4:54:02 PM by Mastadon]

Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Mastadon:


BTW, just as being an FBI agent doesn't automatically make you grow devil horns, graduating West Point and/or US Army Ranger School doesn't automatically put a halo over your head.


Nobody said it did. You said in your first post that you find it "satisfying" that someone who had a job similar to what Horiuchi had was getting burned. The man has no apparent connection to Horiuchi other than being "sniper certified" in the FBI(although not a member of the HRT), so branding him as part of Horiuchi's ilk is quite a stretch.

You'll forgive me if I have little trust in the federal government and little love for the FBI.

ETA: And therefore little sympathy for an agent of same when he finds himself in either the same predicament as many law-abiding citizens do or in a predicament brought on by his own illegal activities. Either way, my tear ducts seem to be running a bit dry when it comes to this story.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:45:49 PM
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
Apparently one of his guns turned up in a shootout in mexico, so they are stringing him up by the balls for it.


I hope none of my stolen guns end up in Mexico...
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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:51:07 PM
According to the search warrant, filed in court in May 2008 and obtained by The Associated Press Tuesday, Shipley sold the .50-caliber rifle to Luis Armando Rodriguez, a former El Paso County deputy sheriff convicted last year of illegally selling guns, who then sold it to a buyer in Mexico.


So let me get this straight, Shipley sells a gun to a former LEO and that former LEO sells the same gun to a Mexican drug dealer, but it is Shipley's fault that the Mexican drug dealer had the gun? What a bunch of BS! Why not charge the jackass who knowlingly sold the gun to the Mexican drug dealer and leave the FBI agent who legally sold the gun to the former LEO alone?

This is a bad precedent. If you have ever sold a gun legally in an FTF sale then you better make sure they never sell it. If someone down the line sells the gun to a criminal then I guess it's your fault now.

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Posted: 9/10/2009 4:56:52 PM

Originally Posted By ETHOS:
Originally Posted By sporter:
Not the smartest thing to sell 3 .50 caliber rifles to a Biker Gang guy from Mexico....


i think he will get nailed hard for this.......




Hard to ignore:

Shipley sold the .50-caliber rifle to Luis Armando Rodriguez, a former El Paso County deputy sheriff convicted last year of illegally selling guns, who then sold it to a buyer in Mexico.


I'm assuming the "biker gang guy" was a deputy at the time he bought the rifles?


Shits rather unclear.



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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:00:20 PM

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Welcome to Obama's America!


The CavArms incident took place under and during the Bush administration.


Fuck oblama, but the ATF has been out of control since long before we even heard oblama's name.

Fuck the ATF, one day people will stand trial for their crimes and abuses. One day... it'll come.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:31:30 PM
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Mastadon:

On the other hand, it's somehow satisfying to hear about one of Lon Horiuchi's ilk being screwed over on firearms charges, which is where Horiuchi's path to Ruby Ridge started...[/div]




Kind of fucked up logic there. Lon Horiuchi's "ilk" would also include graduates of West Point and the U.S. Army Ranger School.



No - Horiuchi is a murderer, not so of the others.


Yeah, and Horiuchi is not the one the article is about. The guy in the article wasn't even on the HRT. Hell, for all any of us know, he may have never even met Horiuchi. If you want to link someone to Horiuchi by virtue of them simply having a similar job in the same organization at different times, you better count in every West Point graduate, Ranger School graduate, and Infantry officer in the Army, because Horiuchi was all of those things before he joined the FBI.


Dude - I didn't link him, but Lon is a killer, plain and simple.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:32:35 PM
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Welcome to Obama's America!


The CavArms incident took place under and during the Bush administration.


Fuck oblama, but the ATF has been out of control since long before we even heard oblama's name.

Fuck the ATF, one day people will stand trial for their crimes and abuses. One day... it'll come.


True and we can only hope
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:34:26 PM
The BATF scares the shit out of me.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:35:47 PM
I prayed to God this was about Lon Houriuchi when I read the title.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:40:47 PM
What a clusterfuck.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:44:12 PM
So,,,,,,,, everyone who bought and sold these firearms are guilty of something????? who is the victim of these terrible crimes????????

the guy in mexico who may have used one of the firearms in a murder, may be guilty of murder, but that's for the Mexicans to decide.

so what if the guy sold some firearms - how is he responsible for the actions of others?
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:44:58 PM
If I dont know my buyer they can pay the extra $ and get the gun thru a dealer or walk, if they get butt hurt about it, fuck 'em
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:48:38 PM
I know this guy
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:49:20 PM

Originally Posted By sporter:
EL PASO, Texas — A high-powered rifle allegedly sold illegally by an El Paso FBI agent was used in a deadly Mexican drug cartel shootout last year, court records show.
According to a 2008 search warrant, agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives linked a .50-caliber rifle sold by FBI agent John T. Shipley to a March 2008 shootout between drug cartel fighters and Mexican army soldiers. An army captain and six cartel members were killed in the nearly three-hour shootout in Chihuahua, agents said in the warrant.
Shipley was arrested last week on charges that he sold weapons via a Web site without a license. He's also accused of lying to the ATF about who the real buyers were.
According to the search warrant, filed in court in May 2008 and obtained by The Associated Press Tuesday, Shipley sold the .50-caliber rifle to Luis Armando Rodriguez, a former El Paso County deputy sheriff convicted last year of illegally selling guns, who then sold it to a buyer in Mexico.
Shipley's lawyer, Robert J. Perez, did return a phone call seeking comment. Court records do not show if Shipley has entered a plea in the case.
According to the 16-page search warrant in Shipley's case, an ATF gun trace tied him to the weapon used in the 2008 shootout.
In a 13-page search warrant filed last year in Rodriguez's case, agents said Rodriguez was a member of a motorcycle club in Ciudad Juarez, just across the Rio Grande from El Paso, who often sold weapons to "Mexican officials."
Agents said Shipley told them he sold the rifle, complete with a scope, to Rodriguez in 2007 for about $8,300. Shipley also said he had previously sold Rodriguez another .50-caliber rifle for $11,000 and a third gun for about $3,300, according to the search warrant.
Shipley was not a licensed gun dealer at the time, according to investigators.
Legal gun sales in Mexico are strictly regulated, with most weapons, including high-powered hand guns and rifles, limited to use by the military. But countless guns are believed to be smuggled into Mexico from the U.S. every day. High-powered weapons are routinely used by warring cartels fighting among themselves and against the government.
More than 11,000 people have been killed in Mexico's drug war since President Felipe Calderon launched a national offensive against drug cartels shortly after taking office in 2006.
As the killings have mounted authorities on both sides of the border have launched efforts to stem the flow of weapons south and trace weapons found in Mexico.

So now a gun used in a crime in a third world shithole country is grounds for prosecution persecution here in the US?
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Posted: 9/10/2009 5:52:46 PM
Originally Posted By moc51ar:
If he hasn't done anything illegal, then he has nothing to fear, right?

Also, why isn't he getting free legal assistance from the government?


Because I really doubt selling fireams is within the realm of his normal duties. Go outside FBI/agency policy, you get hung out to dry.
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Posted: 9/10/2009 6:03:12 PM
Lon Horiuchi?
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