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Posted: 7/16/2009 6:58:23 PM EST
I don't yet own an ar or any rifle in this cartridge. I was told by my friend if I want to be able to shoot military 5.56 I need a 5.56 rifle. (this makes since as I'd only want to shoot what it is chambered for). Is it true 5.56 can shoot both and .223 can only shoot .223?
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Posted: 7/16/2009 6:58:50 PM EST
yes
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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:01:05 PM EST
Yes.

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/hist_diff.html
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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:05:13 PM EST
Awesome thanks very much.

Now I just have to find a 5.56mm rifle I like that doesn't cost as much as an AR
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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:08:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 7:14:45 PM EST by GarandM1]

Originally Posted By Circle_Cutter:
Awesome thanks very much.

Now I just have to find a 5.56mm rifle I like that doesn't cost as much as an AR

Mini-14, FTW!!

ETA: Incidentally, this is the reason Minis ruled the roost back in the '80s: ARs were relatively more expensive and not as readily available as the Minis were.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:10:03 PM EST
Been shooting 5.56 nato out of a mini stamped 223 for over 20years
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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:12:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By 5robert25:
Been shooting 5.56 nato out of a mini stamped 223 for over 20years


IIRC Mini14's are stamped 223 but actually have a 556 chamber.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:12:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 7:12:38 PM EST by GarandM1]

Originally Posted By 5robert25:
Been shooting 5.56 nato out of a mini stamped 223 for over 20years

That's because all Minis have 5.56 chambers, even if they are stamped .223.

ETA: Not fast enough.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:16:21 PM EST
Yes, unless it's a .223 Wylde chamber designed for both.....
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Posted: 7/16/2009 7:20:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Circle_Cutter:
Awesome thanks very much.

Now I just have to find a 5.56mm rifle I like that doesn't cost as much as an AR

I'm not exactly sure if either can use 5.56, but look at Kel-Tec SU16's or Saiga rifles.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 8:58:29 PM EST
This weeks thread on 5.56 and .223

In on one...
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:00:09 PM EST
You can pick up an AR for pretty cheap still, definitely sub $800 (at least in some local shops here)

I'd go with a Mini if you can't get an AR. They're OK.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:04:39 PM EST
Yes, sir.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:05:40 PM EST
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:11:57 PM EST
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:14:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 9:15:25 PM EST by Forgetfull]

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:14:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 9:14:56 PM EST by Flogger23m]
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:15:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?

It worked for the Viet Cong...
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:17:38 PM EST
I recently sold my DPMS to a friend at work...all of my other AR's are Colts and Bushy's...and he's asking me about ammo ... I am interested in learning what to recommend for him...DPMS is .223, right?
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:18:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By theBUBBAMANcan:
I recently sold my DPMS to a friend at work...all of my other AR's are Colts and Bushy's...and he's asking me about ammo ... I am interested in learning what to recommend for him...DPMS is .223, right?


AFAIK all DPMS rifles are chambered in 5.56mm––Mine and all the other ones I have handled are marked 5.56mm.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:20:51 PM EST
Just remember, the 5.56/.223 only matters if it is written on the upper.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:21:15 PM EST

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:23:37 PM EST
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:24:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:

Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?

It worked for the Viet Cong...


No it didn't.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:25:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 9:27:09 PM EST by Flogger23m]
Originally Posted By Windustsearch:
Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:

Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?

It worked for the Viet Cong...


No it didn't.



Worked for me.


Edit: This was a joke.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:26:53 PM EST
........"BANG"........
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:26:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
I'm talking about .223/5.56

oh and .308/7.62x51



.308/7.62NATO it's reversed. .308 is rated for higher pressures.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:29:17 PM EST
Basically, yes.

While there are a few dimensional differences between the two rounds, the main difference is the chamber pressure... Think of 5.56 as .223 Magnum... Or .223 as 5.56 Special... Either way, 5.56 is hotter and higher in chamber pressure, even if they look almost identical.

However, many guns that are marked ".223" are actually chambered in 5.56, which makes it all the more confusing...

A good general rule of thumb is, if it's an old bolt gun that says ".223", don't dare shoot 5.56 in it.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:29:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
I'm talking about .223/5.56

oh and .308/7.62x51



.308/7.62NATO it's reversed. .308 is rated for higher pressures.


Just buy an AK, it will shoot all of those plus 7.62x39
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:30:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Please read the Ammo FAQ tacked at the top of the page.




You really ought to put it in your sig.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:32:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 9:35:40 PM EST by IAMLEGEND]
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
When firearms are proofed according to CIP, a charge of 30% over max is fired and causes no discernable damage to the firearms, and they will take considerably more.

Plenty of people fire 5.56 through .223 chambered barrels, but if you don't want to do it, then don't because it will only leave more ammo for the rest of us



I don't have anything chambered in 223...I have some in 5.56mm though.

But it's not just CUP...it's the dimensions. That changes things too. And is it different firing "a charge" 30% over and firing 5,000 rounds that are overpressure over a few years of shooting?

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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:33:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
I'm talking about .223/5.56

oh and .308/7.62x51

Well we're in completely different conversations then. oops

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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:36:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Windustsearch:
Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:

Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?

It worked for the Viet Cong...


No it didn't.


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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:40:31 PM EST
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

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No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:47:00 PM EST
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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:50:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
When firearms are proofed according to CIP, a charge of 30% over max is fired and causes no discernable damage to the firearms, and they will take considerably more.

Plenty of people fire 5.56 through .223 chambered barrels, but if you don't want to do it, then don't because it will only leave more ammo for the rest of us



I don't have anything chambered in 223...I have some in 5.56mm though.

But it's not just CUP...it's the dimensions. That changes things too. And is it different firing "a charge" 30% over and firing 5,000 rounds that are overpressure over a few years of shooting?

The ammo has the same dimensions, it's the chamber that differs, but when you have some .223 reamers that are more generous than 5.56 ones, where do you draw the line?

An AR15 barrel cut with a SAAMI spec reamer is the same as a bolt guns chamber cut with the same reamer, so why would it be considered safe in an AR15 but not in a bolt gun when the bolt guns barrel diameter at the chamber is usually aroung 1.200", whereas the AR15 barrel is usually 1"" dia at the same place.





Go for it, dude.

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Posted: 7/16/2009 9:53:04 PM EST
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Posted: 7/16/2009 10:52:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 10:57:36 PM EST by para_frame]
Originally Posted By seven-six-two:
Yes, unless it's a .223 Wylde chamber designed for both.....


Most current manufactured hunting/general purpose rifles in .223 are chambered in Wylde, "target rifles" excluded as they may have tighter then spec chambers (.223 match). Both my Stevens 200 .223 and my Savage 10 .223 have a Wylde chamber according to Savage.
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:05:12 PM EST
Yes
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:16:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.


was that ARFCOM in a nutshell?
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:20:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 11:22:26 PM EST by Interceptor_Knight]
Originally Posted By Circle_Cutter:
I don't yet own an ar or any rifle in this cartridge. I was told by my friend if I want to be able to shoot military 5.56 I need a 5.56 rifle. (this makes since as I'd only want to shoot what it is chambered for). Is it true 5.56 can shoot both and .223 can only shoot .223?


Very few rifles have a tight .223 chamber. Most rifles will handle both 5.56 and .223. (Wylde chamber) The most common exception is match rifles. The tighter leade and throat of a match rifle makes shooting 5.56 dangerous at worst (I have yet to hear about a KB from running 5.56 in a .223) and will cause cycling problems at best if it is an AR platform.

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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:27:44 PM EST
...................
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Posted: 7/17/2009 3:34:46 AM EST
was going to answer, but thoroughly covered.
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Posted: 7/17/2009 3:40:40 AM EST
First, I follow the general no 5.56mm in .223 rule. That being said, I seriously doubt shooting 5.56mm will do any harm in a modern rifle like a Savage 10. They use the same action for .308 after all.
In a truly free country, Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms would be the name of a convenience store, not a federal agency
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Posted: 7/17/2009 7:10:08 AM EST
summoned by the spheres!
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Posted: 7/17/2009 7:23:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.



pic's or GTFO!



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Posted: 7/17/2009 7:32:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.






We'll, you ruined it for today.

There's always tommrow.




Boys, if they can sue Marlboro for cancer and Micky D's cause they got fat, can I sue Miller Brewing for all the ugly chicks I slept with?





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Posted: 7/17/2009 7:32:58 AM EST
Well yes, but.

My neighbor just went through a bout of O. C. D. over this same thing when the only barrel he could get at Knob Creek said .223 on it instead of 5.56, he had an M4 build sitting half done and he couldn't wait.

Once he got it finished we drug it out to the range and fed it some M193 that we've had stashed for years.

It worked great.

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Posted: 7/17/2009 7:36:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Russkie:
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.


was that ARFCOM in a nutshell?




No. Thats just a typical Monday. I've caught on.
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Posted: 7/17/2009 7:39:32 AM EST
I have understood it is best not to put 5.56 in a .223 gun. I thought it was something to do with the throat of the chamber being a millimeter different.

Now I look and see several people do it and think nothing of it.

So, what about putting 5.56 ammo in a Remington 700 .223 ?

Thanks,
Ed
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Posted: 7/17/2009 7:40:39 AM EST
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