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Circle_Cutter
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:58:23 PM
I don't yet own an ar or any rifle in this cartridge. I was told by my friend if I want to be able to shoot military 5.56 I need a 5.56 rifle. (this makes since as I'd only want to shoot what it is chambered for). Is it true 5.56 can shoot both and .223 can only shoot .223?
Hero_compleqs
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:58:50 PM
yes
"Make me proud to be an American.
It never ceases to amaze me what Americans are able to do when the government stays out of the way."
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kap_x
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:01:05 AM
Adversary of day. Conqueror of night. Detractor of time itself.
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Circle_Cutter
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:05:13 AM
Awesome thanks very much.

Now I just have to find a 5.56mm rifle I like that doesn't cost as much as an AR
GarandM1
"Help, help, I'm being repressed!"
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:08:59 AM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 12:14:45 AM by GarandM1]

Originally Posted By Circle_Cutter:
Awesome thanks very much.

Now I just have to find a 5.56mm rifle I like that doesn't cost as much as an AR

Mini-14, FTW!!

ETA: Incidentally, this is the reason Minis ruled the roost back in the '80s: ARs were relatively more expensive and not as readily available as the Minis were.
"Sorry Special Officer Bateman, back to using the BATF computers to search for really dirty anime" - Aimless, after locking an NFA troll thread.
5robert25
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:10:03 AM
Been shooting 5.56 nato out of a mini stamped 223 for over 20years
Kalahnikid
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:12:10 AM
Originally Posted By 5robert25:
Been shooting 5.56 nato out of a mini stamped 223 for over 20years


IIRC Mini14's are stamped 223 but actually have a 556 chamber.
53% of Americans have forgotten 9/11
GarandM1
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:12:23 AM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 12:12:38 AM by GarandM1]

Originally Posted By 5robert25:
Been shooting 5.56 nato out of a mini stamped 223 for over 20years

That's because all Minis have 5.56 chambers, even if they are stamped .223.

ETA: Not fast enough.
"Sorry Special Officer Bateman, back to using the BATF computers to search for really dirty anime" - Aimless, after locking an NFA troll thread.
seven-six-two
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:16:21 AM
Yes, unless it's a .223 Wylde chamber designed for both.....
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Mosin_Nagant
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:20:03 AM

Originally Posted By Circle_Cutter:
Awesome thanks very much.

Now I just have to find a 5.56mm rifle I like that doesn't cost as much as an AR

I'm not exactly sure if either can use 5.56, but look at Kel-Tec SU16's or Saiga rifles.
"Violent video games are the assault rifle of the First Amendment"
ftldrben
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Posted: 7/17/2009 1:58:29 AM
This weeks thread on 5.56 and .223

In on one...
"Is it 2012 yet?"
DarkCharisma
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:00:09 AM
You can pick up an AR for pretty cheap still, definitely sub $800 (at least in some local shops here)

I'd go with a Mini if you can't get an AR. They're OK.
SIPCAT-C
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:04:39 AM
Yes, sir.
Zhukov
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:05:40 AM
Please read the Ammo FAQ tacked at the top of the page.
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streetfighter
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:11:57 AM
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely
Forgetfull
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:14:30 AM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 2:15:25 AM by Forgetfull]

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
Flogger23m
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:14:30 AM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 2:14:56 AM by Flogger23m]
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?
Mosin_Nagant
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:15:44 AM

Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?

It worked for the Viet Cong...
"Violent video games are the assault rifle of the First Amendment"
theBUBBAMANcan
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:17:38 AM
I recently sold my DPMS to a friend at work...all of my other AR's are Colts and Bushy's...and he's asking me about ammo ... I am interested in learning what to recommend for him...DPMS is .223, right?
My hair is mostly gray now, thanks to a wife and three other children.
DarkCharisma
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:18:15 AM
Originally Posted By theBUBBAMANcan:
I recently sold my DPMS to a friend at work...all of my other AR's are Colts and Bushy's...and he's asking me about ammo ... I am interested in learning what to recommend for him...DPMS is .223, right?


AFAIK all DPMS rifles are chambered in 5.56mm––Mine and all the other ones I have handled are marked 5.56mm.
Flogger23m
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:20:51 AM
Just remember, the 5.56/.223 only matters if it is written on the upper.
IAMLEGEND
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:21:15 AM

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
My original team status was funded by Olyarms based on an informal poll of ARFCOM regarding candidates for a donated membership. Thank you very much Olyarms and those who voted for me.
streetfighter
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:23:37 AM

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
I'm talking about .223/5.56

oh and .308/7.62x51

Windustsearch
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:24:42 AM
Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:

Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?

It worked for the Viet Cong...


No it didn't.
Flogger23m
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:25:51 AM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 2:27:09 AM by Flogger23m]
Originally Posted By Windustsearch:
Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:

Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?

It worked for the Viet Cong...


No it didn't.



Worked for me.


Edit: This was a joke.
streetfighter
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:26:53 AM

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
When firearms are proofed according to CIP, a charge of 30% over max is fired and causes no discernable damage to the firearms, and they will take considerably more.

Plenty of people fire 5.56 through .223 chambered barrels, but if you don't want to do it, then don't because it will only leave more ammo for the rest of us

Mall-Ninja
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:26:59 AM
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
I'm talking about .223/5.56

oh and .308/7.62x51



.308/7.62NATO it's reversed. .308 is rated for higher pressures.
Freedom and Justice come out of a box. Sometimes it is a Jury box. Sometimes it is a Ballot box. Other times it has to come from a Cartridge box!
TexasRifleman1985
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:29:17 AM
Basically, yes.

While there are a few dimensional differences between the two rounds, the main difference is the chamber pressure... Think of 5.56 as .223 Magnum... Or .223 as 5.56 Special... Either way, 5.56 is hotter and higher in chamber pressure, even if they look almost identical.

However, many guns that are marked ".223" are actually chambered in 5.56, which makes it all the more confusing...

A good general rule of thumb is, if it's an old bolt gun that says ".223", don't dare shoot 5.56 in it.
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Mateba
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:29:39 AM
Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
I'm talking about .223/5.56

oh and .308/7.62x51



.308/7.62NATO it's reversed. .308 is rated for higher pressures.


Just buy an AK, it will shoot all of those plus 7.62x39
"The purpose of a rifle is to fight your way to a 10mm"

Post your deals:
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Mateba
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:30:39 AM
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Please read the Ammo FAQ tacked at the top of the page.




You really ought to put it in your sig.
"The purpose of a rifle is to fight your way to a 10mm"

Post your deals:
http://gun-deals.com
IAMLEGEND
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:32:25 AM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 2:35:40 AM by IAMLEGEND]
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
When firearms are proofed according to CIP, a charge of 30% over max is fired and causes no discernable damage to the firearms, and they will take considerably more.

Plenty of people fire 5.56 through .223 chambered barrels, but if you don't want to do it, then don't because it will only leave more ammo for the rest of us



I don't have anything chambered in 223...I have some in 5.56mm though.

But it's not just CUP...it's the dimensions. That changes things too. And is it different firing "a charge" 30% over and firing 5,000 rounds that are overpressure over a few years of shooting?

My original team status was funded by Olyarms based on an informal poll of ARFCOM regarding candidates for a donated membership. Thank you very much Olyarms and those who voted for me.
Forgetfull
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:33:17 AM

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Forgetfull:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely

Really? Because a 7.62x25 will chamber a 9mm but if you pull the trigger you're fucked.

EDIT: I'm thinking he forget the
I'm talking about .223/5.56

oh and .308/7.62x51

Well we're in completely different conversations then. oops

Mosin_Nagant
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:36:56 AM

Originally Posted By Windustsearch:
Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:

Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:
No.
Totally untrue.
If it will chamber it, it will fire it, safely




My 7.62x39 AK can chamber a .223 bullet. Does this mean it is safe to shoot the .223 bullet through it?

It worked for the Viet Cong...


No it didn't.


"Violent video games are the assault rifle of the First Amendment"
Silly_Look
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:40:31 AM
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.
If I had a train, I'd put a really loud fucking horn on it, and abuse it like a retard before all intersections.... day or night.
streetfighter
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:47:00 AM

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
When firearms are proofed according to CIP, a charge of 30% over max is fired and causes no discernable damage to the firearms, and they will take considerably more.

Plenty of people fire 5.56 through .223 chambered barrels, but if you don't want to do it, then don't because it will only leave more ammo for the rest of us



I don't have anything chambered in 223...I have some in 5.56mm though.

But it's not just CUP...it's the dimensions. That changes things too. And is it different firing "a charge" 30% over and firing 5,000 rounds that are overpressure over a few years of shooting?

The ammo has the same dimensions, it's the chamber that differs, but when you have some .223 reamers that are more generous than 5.56 ones, where do you draw the line?

An AR15 barrel cut with a SAAMI spec reamer is the same as a bolt guns chamber cut with the same reamer, so why would it be considered safe in an AR15 but not in a bolt gun when the bolt guns barrel diameter at the chamber is usually aroung 1.200", whereas the AR15 barrel is usually 1"" dia at the same place.



IAMLEGEND
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:50:28 AM
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
When firearms are proofed according to CIP, a charge of 30% over max is fired and causes no discernable damage to the firearms, and they will take considerably more.

Plenty of people fire 5.56 through .223 chambered barrels, but if you don't want to do it, then don't because it will only leave more ammo for the rest of us



I don't have anything chambered in 223...I have some in 5.56mm though.

But it's not just CUP...it's the dimensions. That changes things too. And is it different firing "a charge" 30% over and firing 5,000 rounds that are overpressure over a few years of shooting?

The ammo has the same dimensions, it's the chamber that differs, but when you have some .223 reamers that are more generous than 5.56 ones, where do you draw the line?

An AR15 barrel cut with a SAAMI spec reamer is the same as a bolt guns chamber cut with the same reamer, so why would it be considered safe in an AR15 but not in a bolt gun when the bolt guns barrel diameter at the chamber is usually aroung 1.200", whereas the AR15 barrel is usually 1"" dia at the same place.





Go for it, dude.

My original team status was funded by Olyarms based on an informal poll of ARFCOM regarding candidates for a donated membership. Thank you very much Olyarms and those who voted for me.
streetfighter
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:53:04 AM

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Oh God, here we go...


"The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat."
When firearms are proofed according to CIP, a charge of 30% over max is fired and causes no discernable damage to the firearms, and they will take considerably more.

Plenty of people fire 5.56 through .223 chambered barrels, but if you don't want to do it, then don't because it will only leave more ammo for the rest of us



I don't have anything chambered in 223...I have some in 5.56mm though.

But it's not just CUP...it's the dimensions. That changes things too. And is it different firing "a charge" 30% over and firing 5,000 rounds that are overpressure over a few years of shooting?

The ammo has the same dimensions, it's the chamber that differs, but when you have some .223 reamers that are more generous than 5.56 ones, where do you draw the line?

An AR15 barrel cut with a SAAMI spec reamer is the same as a bolt guns chamber cut with the same reamer, so why would it be considered safe in an AR15 but not in a bolt gun when the bolt guns barrel diameter at the chamber is usually aroung 1.200", whereas the AR15 barrel is usually 1"" dia at the same place.





Go for it, dude.

I will,
It's only 07.55am here and I am waking up, whereas you are all getting ready for bed.

Therefore through attrition I will win

para_frame
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Posted: 7/17/2009 3:52:16 AM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 3:57:36 AM by para_frame]
Originally Posted By seven-six-two:
Yes, unless it's a .223 Wylde chamber designed for both.....


Most current manufactured hunting/general purpose rifles in .223 are chambered in Wylde, "target rifles" excluded as they may have tighter then spec chambers (.223 match). Both my Stevens 200 .223 and my Savage 10 .223 have a Wylde chamber according to Savage.
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LordSkeletor
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Posted: 7/17/2009 4:05:12 AM
Yes
Russkie
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Posted: 7/17/2009 4:16:01 AM
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.


was that ARFCOM in a nutshell?
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Posted: 7/17/2009 4:20:07 AM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 4:22:26 AM by Interceptor_Knight]
Originally Posted By Circle_Cutter:
I don't yet own an ar or any rifle in this cartridge. I was told by my friend if I want to be able to shoot military 5.56 I need a 5.56 rifle. (this makes since as I'd only want to shoot what it is chambered for). Is it true 5.56 can shoot both and .223 can only shoot .223?


Very few rifles have a tight .223 chamber. Most rifles will handle both 5.56 and .223. (Wylde chamber) The most common exception is match rifles. The tighter leade and throat of a match rifle makes shooting 5.56 dangerous at worst (I have yet to hear about a KB from running 5.56 in a .223) and will cause cycling problems at best if it is an AR platform.

honorabledog
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Posted: 7/17/2009 4:27:44 AM
...................
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thorshammerblow
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Posted: 7/17/2009 8:34:46 AM
was going to answer, but thoroughly covered.
Bladeswitcher
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Posted: 7/17/2009 8:40:40 AM
First, I follow the general no 5.56mm in .223 rule. That being said, I seriously doubt shooting 5.56mm will do any harm in a modern rifle like a Savage 10. They use the same action for .308 after all.
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streetfighter
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:10:08 PM

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
First, I follow the general no 5.56mm in .223 rule.
More ammo for everyone else then

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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:23:29 PM
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.



pic's or GTFO!



NFBBM
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:32:33 PM
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.






We'll, you ruined it for today.

There's always tommrow.




Boys, if they can sue Marlboro for cancer and Micky D's cause they got fat, can I sue Miller Brewing for all the ugly chicks I slept with?





pdg45acp
Sylvia's Punkass Husband
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:32:58 PM
Well yes, but.

My neighbor just went through a bout of O. C. D. over this same thing when the only barrel he could get at Knob Creek said .223 on it instead of 5.56, he had an M4 build sitting half done and he couldn't wait.

Once he got it finished we drug it out to the range and fed it some M193 that we've had stashed for years.

It worked great.

Impeach Obama
BUDUKO
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:36:33 PM
Originally Posted By Russkie:
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
Jesus

Fucking

Christ.

Yeah. Shooting 5.56 out of a .223 AR will make the rifle explode, the sun collapse, peace in the middle east, and people like unsweetened ice tea.

All .40 Glocks explode.

Keeping loaded magazines ruins the springs.

Chili has beans.

Ron Paul is loved by everyone on ARFcom.

No we don't know what that is, go to the emergency room.

Really? We hadn't noticed ammo was in short supply?

Oh, wow! We haven't seen that video/picture/news story that is 4 years old, thanks for posting it, someone will be along shortly to hotlink it correctly.

And yes, your wife/girlfriend is cheating on you.


was that ARFCOM in a nutshell?




No. Thats just a typical Monday. I've caught on.
ed_in_fl1
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:39:32 PM
I have understood it is best not to put 5.56 in a .223 gun. I thought it was something to do with the throat of the chamber being a millimeter different.

Now I look and see several people do it and think nothing of it.

So, what about putting 5.56 ammo in a Remington 700 .223 ?

Thanks,
Ed
Chris_1522
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Posted: 7/17/2009 12:40:39 PM
I would not hesitate to shoot 5.56 ammo out of virtually any gun chambered for .223. Especially bolt guns.


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