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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 8:28:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2009 8:30:48 AM EST by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Oh I fully agree that there is a double standard. A massive double standard. Bibles in schools = bad but Koran in schools = good or promoting tollorance.

I think we are basically on the same page. I'm just so used to hearing from the crowd that will write any candidate off if they do not share 110% of their personal views.

Yes we agree.


You have to understand the history of this.

The left and a major majority of the MSM hated Reagan with a passion and in the ensuing decades have done their best to demonize Conservatives in general and religious Conservatives with a particular ugly form of hate.

A lot of very stupid people in this Country and many here actually believe religious Conservatives represent some sort or intolerant mob of sheet wearing crazies when this is far, far, from the actual truth. In fact the vast majority of religious Conservatives are just plain good people; they look no different nor act different.

You get screamers here who want to insist that religious Conservatives are the same as the Taliban and make equally ridiculous statements when in fact the people who are really trying to control your life and restrict your freedom are on the other side.

Ask yourself a question. If social Conservatives were able tomorrow to flip a switch and outlaw gay marriage and abortion all at once (which is never going to happen) would that have more impact on freedom in this country than Cap-and-Trade legislation or health care reform?


ETA: BTW I am not a very religious.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 8:35:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Threecurl:
Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

You are probably right, my main point is for people who scream if you do not support gay marriage you are somehow anti-freedom, that is childish bullshit. Before anyone chimes in this is wrong I will remind you most of the proponents of gay marriage are about as anti-freedom as they get, this is undeniable.



Pointing out the left's mendacity on freedom does not absolve some portions of the right for having a scattershot definition freedom. Like I said before, the issue as whole is pretty unimportant, especially right now. And I am not trying to define someone who opposes gay marriage as some kind of freedom-hating fascist. I am simply using the issue to illustrate that sometimes those who wave the freedom flag hardest have an odd sense of what freedom entails.



Look anyone in my view who thinks marriage and freedom are consistent concepts is crazy to begin with.



Hahaha, point taken.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 8:36:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By oldschool63:
Rep Sam Johnson 3rd District Texas




He's my rep.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 8:40:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Can someone describe "true conservative" to me? I dunno, im sick of GOP'ers talking about low taxes, less gubbmint and then go pandering to the christians trying to pass this behavior law or that one. Im pretty happy with my Rep, Peter King (R-ny) hes the guy who just got in the news for calling Michael Jackson a pervert! MY fav ideologues are of course Buckley and George Will and Goldwater. "Now you listen here you goddamn queer!" (anyone remember when Buckley said that to Gore Vidal on TV?) IMHO- these are the true libertarian old school conservatives who were the heart of the party and led to the Reagan revolution before it got highjacked by the Christians with their own weird agenda. You know, Let Israel do whatever she wants so that at the "end times" the Jews will be ripe for their sacrifice!

I found the footage of Buckley threatening to kick the shit out of Gore Vidal for calling him a crypto-nazi––
Damn queer!


The party isn't high-jacked by Christians, it has been hi-jacked by countryclub/Rockefeller Republicans. ie John McCain, Colin Powell, Susan Collins, Arnold Schwarzenegger. The media has just done a spectacular job in painting the picture that is those bigoted Christians, but fiscal conservatives and social conservatives have both been given the finger by the elite RINO's.

The sooner we can understand and reconcile that, the better and stronger we will be. With the exception of the Terry Shivo fiasco, I can't think of a single detrimental act perpetrated by the Christian wing of the GOP.


Welp, I disagree, but only for one reason, i didn't really mean "christians" as a blanket statement of all Churches. Im basically talking about the Evangelical, speaking in tongues, rolling about in the aisles types. I don't consider either Reagan nor Bush I to be a panderer to those people but i do think Bush II did and it unsettled the US electorate. I know no one here knows my family but a perfect comparison would be my Grandmother and my aunt. My Grandmother is an oldschool GOP'er from the 30's onward, she now 89, and she was a Methodist which i consider to be a mainstream church. But my Aunt is definately one of those "baby talk" fainting in the aisles types. She even tried it once in my grandmothers Church while visiting and all the old people freaked out, they actually called an ambulance! But she was fucking fine, just faking it. Whoops, i mean to say she "had the spirit", whatever. In my opinion that is the difference between between "Christianity" in the 20's-60's where it was normal and the politics was kept in Church and the newer brand of basic fanatics who plan seem to be to preach, preach, take over the GOP, Highjack the primaries so that only "born agains" get elected etc. etc. and then the GOP does not get known as a small gov't, less taxes, libertarian party, it gets known as the "God Party". A party like that will be politically unviable in the long run. It will cause people to either not vote or vote for libertarian or vote for "blue dog" Democrats, who seem to be growing in numbers. One need only look at the GOP primaries for the 2008 election to see the splits already in place. With "moderates" voting McCain, and the south voting for Huckabee and a lot of Born agains NOT voting for Romney simply BECAUSE he was a mormon who they considered to be "not christian" etc. etc.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 8:41:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By molotov357:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
Originally Posted By Skillshot:
Ron Paul



Yep.


Nope


I agree. Ron Paul is a libertarian.

"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." Ronald Reagon


That is true, but they are not the same.


True. Libertarians believe in freedom for all. Conservatives believe in freedom for all whose lives are biblically acceptable.

You would be wrong. Why are you bashing Christians? Plenty of Conservatives believe in rules and regulations just because they do and not because of what some book says. What is your motive?
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 8:45:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Fender57:Im basically talking about the Evangelical, speaking in tongues, rolling about in the aisles types. I don't consider either Reagan nor Bush I to be a panderer to those people but i do think Bush II did and it unsettled the US electorate. I know no one here knows my family but a perfect comparison would be my Grandmother and my aunt. My Grandmother is an oldschool GOP'er from the 30's onward, she now 89, and she was a Methodist which i consider to be a mainstream church. But my Aunt is definately one of those "baby talk" fainting in the aisles types. She even tried it once in my grandmothers Church while visiting and all the old people freaked out, they actually called an ambulance! But she was fucking fine, just faking it. Whoops, i mean to say she "had the spirit", whatever. In my opinion that is the difference between between "Christianity" in the 20's-60's where it was normal and the politics was kept in Church and the newer brand of basic fanatics who plan seem to be to preach, preach, take over the GOP, Highjack the primaries so that only "born agains" get elected etc. etc. and then the GOP does not get known as a small gov't, less taxes, libertarian party, it gets known as the "God Party". A party like that will be politically unviable in the long run. It will cause people to either not vote or vote for libertarian or vote for "blue dog" Democrats, who seem to be growing in numbers. One need only look at the GOP primaries for the 2008 election to see the splits already in place. With "moderates" voting McCain, and the south voting for Huckabee and a lot of Born agains NOT voting for Romney simply BECAUSE he was a mormon who they considered to be "not christian" etc. etc.

What's wrong with that? Don't we have a right to worship an any manner that we chose so along as no one will infrindge on the rights of someone else to do the same?

Are you some how opressed by them? Ask yourself what group is doing the most oppressing right now. What group is making gains in dictating how we live and how we act? It sure as hell isn't evangelicals.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 9:02:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Fender57:Im basically talking about the Evangelical, speaking in tongues, rolling about in the aisles types. I don't consider either Reagan nor Bush I to be a panderer to those people but i do think Bush II did and it unsettled the US electorate. I know no one here knows my family but a perfect comparison would be my Grandmother and my aunt. My Grandmother is an oldschool GOP'er from the 30's onward, she now 89, and she was a Methodist which i consider to be a mainstream church. But my Aunt is definately one of those "baby talk" fainting in the aisles types. She even tried it once in my grandmothers Church while visiting and all the old people freaked out, they actually called an ambulance! But she was fucking fine, just faking it. Whoops, i mean to say she "had the spirit", whatever. In my opinion that is the difference between between "Christianity" in the 20's-60's where it was normal and the politics was kept in Church and the newer brand of basic fanatics who plan seem to be to preach, preach, take over the GOP, Highjack the primaries so that only "born agains" get elected etc. etc. and then the GOP does not get known as a small gov't, less taxes, libertarian party, it gets known as the "God Party". A party like that will be politically unviable in the long run. It will cause people to either not vote or vote for libertarian or vote for "blue dog" Democrats, who seem to be growing in numbers. One need only look at the GOP primaries for the 2008 election to see the splits already in place. With "moderates" voting McCain, and the south voting for Huckabee and a lot of Born agains NOT voting for Romney simply BECAUSE he was a mormon who they considered to be "not christian" etc. etc.

What's wrong with that? Don't we have a right to worship an any manner that we chose so along as no one will infrindge on the rights of someone else to do the same?

Are you some how opressed by them? Ask yourself what group is doing the most oppressing right now. What group is making gains in dictating how we live and how we act? It sure as hell isn't evangelicals.


Thats the problem, BA Christians can't keep thier agenda to themselves. And its always stupid shit that no one else cares about but them, but boy does it piss off everyone else. Perfect example is Evolution in school and stem cell research and busting porn people for "obscenity" and the Schivo case and even gay marriage. No one gives a shit about those things except them and the radical leftists who want gay marriage. We got bigger fish to fry! But now the press talks about these things like its the most important issue of the day. Its not.
Also, i wasn't talking about my own personal life and how i am "oppressed" by Evangelicals, im talking about the GOP's viability as a national party for the next 50 years. If every four years the GOP tries to elect Some Born again preacher for president WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME.


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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 9:07:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By MTUSA:
Gingrich


The same Gingrich that joined Nancy Pelosi in a pro-global-warming advertisement?

THAT Gingrich?
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 9:10:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Fender57:Im basically talking about the Evangelical, speaking in tongues, rolling about in the aisles types. I don't consider either Reagan nor Bush I to be a panderer to those people but i do think Bush II did and it unsettled the US electorate. I know no one here knows my family but a perfect comparison would be my Grandmother and my aunt. My Grandmother is an oldschool GOP'er from the 30's onward, she now 89, and she was a Methodist which i consider to be a mainstream church. But my Aunt is definately one of those "baby talk" fainting in the aisles types. She even tried it once in my grandmothers Church while visiting and all the old people freaked out, they actually called an ambulance! But she was fucking fine, just faking it. Whoops, i mean to say she "had the spirit", whatever. In my opinion that is the difference between between "Christianity" in the 20's-60's where it was normal and the politics was kept in Church and the newer brand of basic fanatics who plan seem to be to preach, preach, take over the GOP, Highjack the primaries so that only "born agains" get elected etc. etc. and then the GOP does not get known as a small gov't, less taxes, libertarian party, it gets known as the "God Party". A party like that will be politically unviable in the long run. It will cause people to either not vote or vote for libertarian or vote for "blue dog" Democrats, who seem to be growing in numbers. One need only look at the GOP primaries for the 2008 election to see the splits already in place. With "moderates" voting McCain, and the south voting for Huckabee and a lot of Born agains NOT voting for Romney simply BECAUSE he was a mormon who they considered to be "not christian" etc. etc.

What's wrong with that? Don't we have a right to worship an any manner that we chose so along as no one will infrindge on the rights of someone else to do the same?

Are you some how opressed by them? Ask yourself what group is doing the most oppressing right now. What group is making gains in dictating how we live and how we act? It sure as hell isn't evangelicals.


Thats the problem, BA Christians can't keep thier agenda to themselves. And its always stupid shit that no one else cares about but them, but boy does it piss off everyone else. Perfect example is Evolution in school and stem cell research and busting porn people for "obscenity" and the Schivo case and even gay marriage. No one gives a shit about those things except them and the radical leftists who want gay marriage. We got bigger fish to fry! But now the press talks about these things like its the most important issue of the day. Its not.
Also, i wasn't talking about my own personal life and how i am "oppressed" by Evangelicals, im talking about the GOP's viability as a national party for the next 50 years. If every four years the GOP tries to elect Some Born again preacher for president WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME.

What's wrong about being against government funded stem cell research? I agree on other points like evolution in schools. That's why I propose a trade off. No sex ed in exchange for evolution being taught.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 9:14:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Fender57:Im basically talking about the Evangelical, speaking in tongues, rolling about in the aisles types. I don't consider either Reagan nor Bush I to be a panderer to those people but I do think Bush II did and it unsettled the US electorate. I know no one here knows my family but a perfect comparison would be my Grandmother and my aunt. My Grandmother is an old school GOP'er from the 30's onward, she now 89, and she was a Methodist which I consider to be a mainstream church. But my Aunt is definitely one of those "baby talk" fainting in the aisles types. She even tried it once in my grandmothers Church while visiting and all the old people freaked out, they actually called an ambulance! But she was fucking fine, just faking it. Whoops, I mean to say she "had the spirit", whatever. In my opinion that is the difference between between "Christianity" in the 20's-60's where it was normal and the politics was kept in Church and the newer brand of basic fanatics who plan seem to be to preach, preach, take over the GOP, Hijack the primaries so that only "born agains" get elected etc. etc. and then the GOP does not get known as a small gov't, less taxes, libertarian party, it gets known as the "God Party". A party like that will be politically unviable in the long run. It will cause people to either not vote or vote for libertarian or vote for "blue dog" Democrats, who seem to be growing in numbers. One need only look at the GOP primaries for the 2008 election to see the splits already in place. With "moderates" voting McCain, and the south voting for Huckabee and a lot of Born agains NOT voting for Romney simply BECAUSE he was a Mormon who they considered to be "not Christian" etc. etc.

What's wrong with that? Don't we have a right to worship an any manner that we chose so along as no one will infringe on the rights of someone else to do the same?

Are you some how oppressed by them? Ask yourself what group is doing the most oppressing right now. What group is making gains in dictating how we live and how we act? It sure as hell isn't evangelicals.


That's the problem, BA Christians can't keep their agenda to themselves. And its always stupid shit that no one else cares about but them, but boy does it piss off everyone else. Perfect example is Evolution in school and stem cell research and busting porn people for "obscenity" and the Schivo case and even gay marriage. No one gives a shit about those things except them and the radical leftists who want gay marriage. We got bigger fish to fry! But now the press talks about these things like its the most important issue of the day. Its not.
Also, I wasn't talking about my own personal life and how I am "oppressed" by Evangelicals, I'm talking about the GOP's viability as a national party for the next 50 years. If every four years the GOP tries to elect Some Born again preacher for president WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME.

What's wrong about being against government funded stem cell research? I agree on other points like evolution in schools. That's why I propose a trade off. No sex ed in exchange for evolution being taught.


From what I have read, there have been more advances in non-embryonic stem cell research than in the embryonic stem cell research the left complains we are not funding.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 9:15:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2009 9:16:30 AM EST by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Fender57:
Thats the problem, BA Christians can't keep thier agenda to themselves. And its always stupid shit that no one else cares about but them, but boy does it piss off everyone else. Perfect example is Evolution in school and stem cell research and busting porn people for "obscenity" and the Schivo case and even gay marriage. No one gives a shit about those things except them and the radical leftists who want gay marriage. We got bigger fish to fry! But now the press talks about these things like its the most important issue of the day. Its not.
Also, i wasn't talking about my own personal life and how i am "oppressed" by Evangelicals, im talking about the GOP's viability as a national party for the next 50 years. If every four years the GOP tries to elect Some Born again preacher for president WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME.


Do not take this wrong. But you are in fact the one acting like a intolerant, strident fanatic.

Who the hell actually expects a group to keep their agenda to themselves? You have political rights to participate and they get nada.

You make zero sense where the real world is concerned. The only candidate that I can recall that ran for President as born again was Jimmy Carter.


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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 9:19:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Fender57:Im basically talking about the Evangelical, speaking in tongues, rolling about in the aisles types. I don't consider either Reagan nor Bush I to be a panderer to those people but I do think Bush II did and it unsettled the US electorate. I know no one here knows my family but a perfect comparison would be my Grandmother and my aunt. My Grandmother is an old school GOP'er from the 30's onward, she now 89, and she was a Methodist which I consider to be a mainstream church. But my Aunt is definitely one of those "baby talk" fainting in the aisles types. She even tried it once in my grandmothers Church while visiting and all the old people freaked out, they actually called an ambulance! But she was fucking fine, just faking it. Whoops, I mean to say she "had the spirit", whatever. In my opinion that is the difference between between "Christianity" in the 20's-60's where it was normal and the politics was kept in Church and the newer brand of basic fanatics who plan seem to be to preach, preach, take over the GOP, Hijack the primaries so that only "born agains" get elected etc. etc. and then the GOP does not get known as a small gov't, less taxes, libertarian party, it gets known as the "God Party". A party like that will be politically unviable in the long run. It will cause people to either not vote or vote for libertarian or vote for "blue dog" Democrats, who seem to be growing in numbers. One need only look at the GOP primaries for the 2008 election to see the splits already in place. With "moderates" voting McCain, and the south voting for Huckabee and a lot of Born agains NOT voting for Romney simply BECAUSE he was a Mormon who they considered to be "not Christian" etc. etc.

What's wrong with that? Don't we have a right to worship an any manner that we chose so along as no one will infringe on the rights of someone else to do the same?

Are you some how oppressed by them? Ask yourself what group is doing the most oppressing right now. What group is making gains in dictating how we live and how we act? It sure as hell isn't evangelicals.


That's the problem, BA Christians can't keep their agenda to themselves. And its always stupid shit that no one else cares about but them, but boy does it piss off everyone else. Perfect example is Evolution in school and stem cell research and busting porn people for "obscenity" and the Schivo case and even gay marriage. No one gives a shit about those things except them and the radical leftists who want gay marriage. We got bigger fish to fry! But now the press talks about these things like its the most important issue of the day. Its not.
Also, I wasn't talking about my own personal life and how I am "oppressed" by Evangelicals, I'm talking about the GOP's viability as a national party for the next 50 years. If every four years the GOP tries to elect Some Born again preacher for president WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME.

What's wrong about being against government funded stem cell research? I agree on other points like evolution in schools. That's why I propose a trade off. No sex ed in exchange for evolution being taught.


From what I have read, there have been more advances in non-embryonic stem cell research than in the embryonic stem cell research the left complains we are not funding.

I would ague that such research should be done in the confines of the private sector with private money. Any advances can be put in the market to save lives and make money. Once government gets its paws on the funding, it will get its paws on the techonology.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 9:40:00 AM EST
I like Rep. Greg Walden –– he isn't in my district but I'd vote for him:
Voting Record on Gun Rights

Greg Walden vs. Al Gore

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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 9:48:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By MTUSA:
Gingrich


The same Gingrich that joined Nancy Pelosi in a pro-global-warming advertisement?

THAT Gingrich?

Yes, I agree that Gingrich is no conservative. He was all for global warming, if only Republican style. And it seems to me he pretty much squashed the bright, conservative junior congressmen who flooded into Congress in 1994. At first he as their champion, but within a couple of years he was calling them upstarts and rash.

He now seems to be trying to remake his image as a conservative again, but I don't trust him. I think he is more of an opportunist than a conservative. If he is in his heart a conservative and promoted those "across the aisle" global warming things as some misguided uber-strategy, then he is dangerously foolhardy to be a leader of conservatives. Let him keep busy writing books and stay out of campaigns.


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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 10:01:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Fender57:
Thats the problem, BA Christians can't keep thier agenda to themselves. And its always stupid shit that no one else cares about but them, but boy does it piss off everyone else. Perfect example is Evolution in school and stem cell research and busting porn people for "obscenity" and the Schivo case and even gay marriage. No one gives a shit about those things except them and the radical leftists who want gay marriage. We got bigger fish to fry! But now the press talks about these things like its the most important issue of the day. Its not.
Also, i wasn't talking about my own personal life and how i am "oppressed" by Evangelicals, im talking about the GOP's viability as a national party for the next 50 years. If every four years the GOP tries to elect Some Born again preacher for president WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME.


Do not take this wrong. But you are in fact the one acting like a intolerant, strident fanatic.

Who the hell actually expects a group to keep their agenda to themselves? You have political rights to participate and they get nada.

You make zero sense where the real world is concerned. The only candidate that I can recall that ran for President as born again was Jimmy Carter.




I don't expect people to get tied up and shoved in a closet so they can't vote or participate. All i am saying is that from a political standpoint if the party does get "over run" by born agains so that they become the majority then the GOP will cease to be a national party. It will become a party of regional interest only. Look at all the "swing states" that went for Obama, do you think they went for him because McCain was not "born again enough?? The GOP will lose the swing states and the red states like Indiana and New Hampshire if it becomes the "Born again" party.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 10:04:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Fender57:
Thats the problem, BA Christians can't keep thier agenda to themselves. And its always stupid shit that no one else cares about but them, but boy does it piss off everyone else. Perfect example is Evolution in school and stem cell research and busting porn people for "obscenity" and the Schivo case and even gay marriage. No one gives a shit about those things except them and the radical leftists who want gay marriage. We got bigger fish to fry! But now the press talks about these things like its the most important issue of the day. Its not.
Also, i wasn't talking about my own personal life and how i am "oppressed" by Evangelicals, im talking about the GOP's viability as a national party for the next 50 years. If every four years the GOP tries to elect Some Born again preacher for president WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME.


Do not take this wrong. But you are in fact the one acting like a intolerant, strident fanatic.

Who the hell actually expects a group to keep their agenda to themselves? You have political rights to participate and they get nada.

You make zero sense where the real world is concerned. The only candidate that I can recall that ran for President as born again was Jimmy Carter.




I don't expect people to get tied up and shoved in a closet so they can't vote or participate. All i am saying is that from a political standpoint if the party does get "over run" by born agains so that they become the majority then the GOP will cease to be a national party. It will become a party of regional interest only. Look at all the "swing states" that went for Obama, do you think they went for him because McCain was not "born again enough?? The GOP will lose the swing states and the red states like Indiana and New Hampshire if it becomes the "Born again" party.


Huh?
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 10:10:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:


From what I have read, there have been more advances in non-embryonic stem cell research than in the embryonic stem cell research the left complains we are not funding.

I would ague that such research should be done in the confines of the private sector with private money. Any advances can be put in the market to save lives and make money. Once government gets its paws on the funding, it will get its paws on the techonology.


I agree. What I was saying is that there are two different types of stem cell research. Embryonic and non-embryonice. Most conservatives are opposed to embryonic stem cell research because it requires the use of a human embryo. The left has pressed for this kind of research to go forward. There has been more advancement in the other type not requiring the use of human embryos.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 10:16:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:


From what I have read, there have been more advances in non-embryonic stem cell research than in the embryonic stem cell research the left complains we are not funding.

I would ague that such research should be done in the confines of the private sector with private money. Any advances can be put in the market to save lives and make money. Once government gets its paws on the funding, it will get its paws on the techonology.


I agree. What I was saying is that there are two different types of stem cell research. Embryonic and non-embryonice. Most conservatives are opposed to embryonic stem cell research because it requires the use of a human embryo. The left has pressed for this kind of research to go forward. There has been more advancement in the other type not requiring the use of human embryos.
I agree. I honestly believe that the whole stem cell research thing is nothing but a way to further the pro-abortion agenda. It is secondarily a political tool to give false hope and promisses to the ignorant masses.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 10:29:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Fender57:

All i am saying is that from a political standpoint if the party does get "over run" by born agains so that they become the majority then the GOP will cease to be a national party. It will become a party of regional interest only. Look at all the "swing states" that went for Obama, do you think they went for him because McCain was not "born again enough?? The GOP will lose the swing states and the red states like Indiana and New Hampshire if it becomes the "Born again" party.



As a born-again believer, I think I'm qualified to say you don't know as much about this subject as you think.

You are painting stereotypes with a broad brush.

Besides, any real Christian is born-again.

"... Jesus declared, 'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.'" (John 3:3)

He said it, I didn't make it up. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Him.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 10:34:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Fender57:
Thats the problem, BA Christians can't keep thier agenda to themselves. And its always stupid shit that no one else cares about but them, but boy does it piss off everyone else. Perfect example is Evolution in school and stem cell research and busting porn people for "obscenity" and the Schivo case and even gay marriage. No one gives a shit about those things except them and the radical leftists who want gay marriage. We got bigger fish to fry! But now the press talks about these things like its the most important issue of the day. Its not.
Also, i wasn't talking about my own personal life and how i am "oppressed" by Evangelicals, im talking about the GOP's viability as a national party for the next 50 years. If every four years the GOP tries to elect Some Born again preacher for president WE WILL LOSE EVERY TIME.


Do not take this wrong. But you are in fact the one acting like a intolerant, strident fanatic.

Who the hell actually expects a group to keep their agenda to themselves? You have political rights to participate and they get nada.

You make zero sense where the real world is concerned. The only candidate that I can recall that ran for President as born again was Jimmy Carter.




I don't expect people to get tied up and shoved in a closet so they can't vote or participate. All i am saying is that from a political standpoint if the party does get "over run" by born agains so that they become the majority then the GOP will cease to be a national party. It will become a party of regional interest only. Look at all the "swing states" that went for Obama, do you think they went for him because McCain was not "born again enough?? The GOP will lose the swing states and the red states like Indiana and New Hampshire if it becomes the "Born again" party.


Huh?
Really


You cannot reason with that.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2009 1:47:46 PM EST
Back on topic, since real conservatives are so rare in the republican party, and since conservative voters feel abandoned by the party, do you think the time is ripe for a third party run?

Perot pulled fringe elements of both parties. However, conservatives are the core of the republican base.

Also, libertarian ideas would appeal to many in the democrat party, if they were articulated properly.
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