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Link Posted: 6/28/2009 11:09:24 PM EDT
You taking about marriage vs friends w/ benefits?
Link Posted: 6/28/2009 11:22:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2009 11:25:57 PM EDT by modus]
If capital can organize, corporations. Labor can too. Adam Smith the Godfather of Capitalism said so.

I hate them from the perspective of allowing deadbeats to continue on, time managed promotion and salary scheme instead of pure merit, juiced hiring, and who they donate to - democrats but they have a place, albeit an ever shrinking place with global economy.... The manufacturing unions have destroyed many US companies so they are on the way out one way or the other. The service unions are more of a problem - we can't outsource service techs at utilities, police, teachers and such so they are with us for awhile... Once America is broke they will go to. Unions in general were a good thing for this country and built a huge middle class. But last 20-30 years have become worse than any Robber Barron and are helping to destroy America.
Link Posted: 6/28/2009 11:24:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:


I could find news articles about cops beating up people and American military personnel raping local women, but that doesn't mean they all do it.


One is the exception, the other is the norm. Guess which is which?


It's normal for everyone in a union to sleep all day and not work? My current job is the only union job I've ever had and, on average, my coworkers work harder than anyone else I've ever worked with.


Maybe you've just worked with a bunch of lazy bastards all your life and have a low bar to measure against? Not uncommon for a union worker.

Here is some real first hand experience for you and jdrautoworks. I used to work as a management consultant. My job was to go in and out of various companies, study how they operated and how the people work. I've seen the inner workings and the dirty secrets of more companies (and across a broader spectrum of industries) in 3 years than most people do in their entire life. It would not be unusual to go into a company with a union work force and find the workers sleeping or fucking around though. Maybe not all day, maybe not every day, but a hell of a lot more than non union workers. Anybody that's been in that environment knows that. I suspect you know it, but as with most union supporters, intellectual dishonesty is not only acceptable but necessary to push your agenda.

Go into a non union environment though and see the difference that a meritocracy makes. When a person knows that working harder will likely result in making more or advancing, when he knows fucking around could get him fired, when he is free to work without a rat's nest of bureaucratic labor rules, he becomes a better, more productive worker. It's that simple and the same reason communism doesn't work. Just like communism though, those controlling the racket will continue lying about the benefits of their misguided collectivism until they start believing it themselves. The results are the same also.


You must have problems comprehending what you read. It was my coworkers at non-union jobs (and my previous job was a good one that I worked at for six and a half years) who were more likely to screw around rather than work. At my current, union job, we get good pay and benefits and the company expects us to bust our asses to earn that.


I know what you are saying and responded exactly to what you are speaking to. Let me say this more plainly so that it fits with YOUR reading comprehension, union workers tend to be lazy underachievers looking for entitlements. Any place willing to have hired them in the past probably does not have a high standard of work ethic, union or not. You don't see many people jumping ship from working at a world class company to a unionized one, usually union workers enter the union work force coming from menial backgrounds. Thus, the bar is not set that high when comparing their co-workers.


Do you have some sort of objective proof that union workers are lazy underachievers looking for entitlements? My previous job was with a multi-national corporation that everyone here will have heard of. My former coworkers probably wouldn't leave for a union job like I have, because they might have to work for eight or twelve hours a day instead of surf the internet and talk to their friends and family on the phone.

EDIT: In fairness to my former coworkers, many of them worked very hard. But there were a number of them that spent of LOT of time on non-work and that shit wouldn't fly at my current job that is supposedly filled with lazy underachievers looking for entitlements.


http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html


You made a big claim about unionized workers. Can you back it up or not?




In order for there to be "objective proof" here, somebody would have to have done a study on it but of course nobody has, which is why you are asking in your lame attempt at an argument. There's no "objective proof" that government workers tend to be lazy either, but everyone knows that it's true. All you can do is base your arguments on observation. The difference is you are basing your argument from having observed 2 work environments, I am basing my argument from having observed dozens and in a professional capacity.

Unless you have an intelligent argument to make, something that doesn't sound like it's coming from a union worker or NASCAR fan, I'm just going to have to ignore your posts. Cheers.
Link Posted: 6/28/2009 11:27:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chevyguy85:
Originally Posted By Collin:
All the union hate...let's see how you really feel.

What do you think of unions? Love them? Hate them?

Personally, I hate them.


What is the point of this thread? I don't think anyone here is going to say they 100% love or hate everything about union or non-union jobs, they both have their positives and negatives... even to people who belong to one, like me. I don't agree with everything that the union does, but I don't disagree enough to quit my job. It pays good and thats all that matters to me.



Holy shit, this attitude boggles the mind, and in the first reply no less. How about if your company went out of business? Would that matter to you??

Such a selfish outlook. gimmme gimme.. Maybe you should try and start you own business and hire employees just like you. Oh yea...sure..
Link Posted: 6/28/2009 11:28:20 PM EDT
Did some good at first. I voted no.
Link Posted: 6/28/2009 11:31:08 PM EDT
What about cop and fire unions?
Link Posted: 6/28/2009 11:37:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jdrautoworks:
Oh nooo.... Another uneducated union thread.... For 99% of unions and I am a business owner on top of that for skilled trades. These threads are useless because the haters are not willing to be subjected to rhetorical question and only ramble about shit they hear form 'a brother in laws, best friends, brother'.


Holy Shit, common sense in an ARFcom thread about unions. Someone take a screenshot!
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 12:23:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By juan223:
What about cop and fire unions?


What about them?

They decided to choose those professions becuase they want to help people. They go into it knowing they won't make millions, yet they think they are entitled to a union.


Also, fuck any LEO that pulls that "Blue Flu" shit.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:29:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 9:47:01 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:32:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Union folks are already losing their jobs, don't you watch the news?
I am a Republican and have to work Union represented because the Plant is a Union shop.

I didn't vote for Prez-Oh but still got laid off because the economy is in the tank blah blah blah.

Bullshit.

I got laid off in retaliation for captain dipshit being elected, meanwhile fuckernuts real backers got their rewards in subsidies and bail-outs.

Think the liberals are any different than the republicans, think again.


You got laid off because your services were no longer required to make money for the company you worked for. The whole point of the company you worked for was to make money for the principles and investors, not to provide you a job.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:43:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 3:50:42 AM EDT by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By Milo5:
UAW & Teamster here too.

Lord knows Unions have fucked me enough too.

Need to get the balls back or these things are the parasite the non-union people say they are.

I guess we will all be non-union and eight bucks an hour soon enough.

Gotta be Globally competetive don't ya know!!!!


You need to realize that most union laborers are not worth $8 to their employers. Artificially inflating wages is why so much of your goods and services are so expensive. If workers who are worth $8 an hour only make that, it drives down wages and also drives down the cost of good and labor since the production costs drop as well. Unions and artificially high wages are why its not profitable to make much of anything in the US anymore.

If someone can do your job for $8 and do it as well as you can, then that is what the job is worth. Tough shit if you don't like it. You don't have to be there. If you are worth keeping, they company will pay more than $8 to keep you.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:47:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 3:48:06 AM EDT by pdg45acp]
I spent 30 years at GM/Delphi on Salary (Non-Union).

I saw union shit happen that you would not believe.

Unions, particularly the UAW, have killed this country.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:56:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Unions have long out lived their purpose.


Link Posted: 6/29/2009 4:01:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rufusrufgut:
Originally Posted By Collin:
All the union hate...let's see how you really feel.

What do you think of unions? Love them? Hate them?

Personally, I hate them.


I guess you missed the other 200 threads on this.


this

no point in this thread.. unions had their place in history, that time has passed.. there are still a few unions that still hold to their original principles, but most are jsut greedy self absorbed clubs more interested in making money off their members to go on conventions, meetings, parties to say they accomplished something.

dont get me started on the NALC either... i think the fuckers helped push my FIL into committing suicide at the post office a few weeks ago and we are still reeling from that
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 6:03:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 6:14:23 AM EDT by DriveNASCAR]
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:


I could find news articles about cops beating up people and American military personnel raping local women, but that doesn't mean they all do it.


One is the exception, the other is the norm. Guess which is which?


It's normal for everyone in a union to sleep all day and not work? My current job is the only union job I've ever had and, on average, my coworkers work harder than anyone else I've ever worked with.


Maybe you've just worked with a bunch of lazy bastards all your life and have a low bar to measure against? Not uncommon for a union worker.

Here is some real first hand experience for you and jdrautoworks. I used to work as a management consultant. My job was to go in and out of various companies, study how they operated and how the people work. I've seen the inner workings and the dirty secrets of more companies (and across a broader spectrum of industries) in 3 years than most people do in their entire life. It would not be unusual to go into a company with a union work force and find the workers sleeping or fucking around though. Maybe not all day, maybe not every day, but a hell of a lot more than non union workers. Anybody that's been in that environment knows that. I suspect you know it, but as with most union supporters, intellectual dishonesty is not only acceptable but necessary to push your agenda.

Go into a non union environment though and see the difference that a meritocracy makes. When a person knows that working harder will likely result in making more or advancing, when he knows fucking around could get him fired, when he is free to work without a rat's nest of bureaucratic labor rules, he becomes a better, more productive worker. It's that simple and the same reason communism doesn't work. Just like communism though, those controlling the racket will continue lying about the benefits of their misguided collectivism until they start believing it themselves. The results are the same also.


You must have problems comprehending what you read. It was my coworkers at non-union jobs (and my previous job was a good one that I worked at for six and a half years) who were more likely to screw around rather than work. At my current, union job, we get good pay and benefits and the company expects us to bust our asses to earn that.


I know what you are saying and responded exactly to what you are speaking to. Let me say this more plainly so that it fits with YOUR reading comprehension, union workers tend to be lazy underachievers looking for entitlements. Any place willing to have hired them in the past probably does not have a high standard of work ethic, union or not. You don't see many people jumping ship from working at a world class company to a unionized one, usually union workers enter the union work force coming from menial backgrounds. Thus, the bar is not set that high when comparing their co-workers.


Do you have some sort of objective proof that union workers are lazy underachievers looking for entitlements? My previous job was with a multi-national corporation that everyone here will have heard of. My former coworkers probably wouldn't leave for a union job like I have, because they might have to work for eight or twelve hours a day instead of surf the internet and talk to their friends and family on the phone.

EDIT: In fairness to my former coworkers, many of them worked very hard. But there were a number of them that spent of LOT of time on non-work and that shit wouldn't fly at my current job that is supposedly filled with lazy underachievers looking for entitlements.


http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html


You made a big claim about unionized workers. Can you back it up or not?




In order for there to be "objective proof" here, somebody would have to have done a study on it but of course nobody has, which is why you are asking in your lame attempt at an argument. There's no "objective proof" that government workers tend to be lazy either, but everyone knows that it's true. All you can do is base your arguments on observation. The difference is you are basing your argument from having observed 2 work environments, I am basing my argument from having observed dozens and in a professional capacity.

Unless you have an intelligent argument to make, something that doesn't sound like it's coming from a union worker or NASCAR fan, I'm just going to have to ignore your posts. Cheers.


In that case, I should again point out that my observation has been very different from yours. Why should I believe that you claim to have seen over what I actually have seen? You're just intellectually lazy, in my opinion, and wanting to bash people you don't like without being burdened with the responsibility of proving your claims.

EDIT: I also don't believe that all government workers are lazy. Some certainly are (and I think there is more outrage about it because they're paid with our tax dollars), but I'd doubt that every single person paid by the taxpayer is lazy or even overpaid (think military, police and fire departments for this one).
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 6:28:55 AM EDT
Fuck labor unions.

Especially the I.B.E.W.

My dad spent over 45 years as a union electrician.

He went on strike when he was told, paid his dues whether he was working or not,
and was a "good brother" for all of his adult life.

His IBEW retirement is an absolute joke. (Around $400 per month)

If it wasn't for Social Security, he would be on welfare and food stamps, or would have to work
at Wally World as a door greeter just to survive.



Link Posted: 6/29/2009 6:39:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 6:42:02 AM EDT by dercot03]
Fuck the motherfucking unions. I went back to my home town a few months back and called an old friend up to go shooting who happens to be in a union. We met up I saw that he had an Obongo sticker on his truck, WTF?

So we are eating lunch before we head to the range and I ask about the sticker. He starting sounding off all this bullshit about Obama this and Obama that and I couldnt believe the way that the union had brainwashed him. It was scary. This friend has never been anything close to political and here he is ranting and raving about how Obama is going to save the fucking world and bring back the unicorns and I couldnt take it anymore.

I told him that he was a fucking idiot and everybody at his union was a fucking idiot and I hope he gets fucked real hard by Obamas dick. I paid for my meal and left. I used to talk to this friend everyday. Not anymore. Fuck the unions.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 6:46:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 6:46:58 AM EDT by SIPCAT-C]
I have a hard time with this one. I support unions for SKILLED LABOR. I had ancestors who 'traded lead' with the Baldwin hired guns at the Mine Wars. Once again, West Virginia had to get up and fight so that men in the future would not be paid in scrit good only at company stores (inflated prices), not have to work in criminal work conditions, not have to work 18hr days without overtime pay, etc.

THOSE UNIONS were respectable, admirable, etc.

A union for fucking tollbooth workers or government employees (no competition and you want a union!?) is sickening and pathetic.

That's where I stand.

Plus they were effectively hijacked and manipulated by Communists, humanists, and socialists decades ago.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 6:54:11 AM EDT
Union worker here work in Michigan obliviously wont say my local.
But i don't really like organized labor.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 6:55:26 AM EDT
I also believe alot of people hate unions because they are jealous of what they have.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 6:59:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I also believe alot of people hate unions because they are jealous of what they have.

No people hate unions because of their Marxist roots.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 7:13:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hicap:
at one time unions were a good thing and have benefitted society - i dont like them though because they are entwined with democratic poliitics and they take away the independence and personal responsibility of individuals

they are inefficient as hell - instead of everyone chipping in as a team, there are all of these stupid turf rules designed to protect peoples jobs - hell i cant even set a lap top up in some govt buildings without an IT union fucker doing it for me, its insane




Ever see two people pushing a lawnmower at the same time? I have. It was due to union reqs.


Unions were a necessary evil in the past, and may be needed in the future. But, they have a lot of evil associated with them. Many are corrupt and associated with organized crime. Sadly in recent decades they have done more to hurt US workers than help. What realy irks me are unionized public servants. Talk about having it both ways. They practically run the state of california. One of the many reasons that state is sinking into the abyss.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 7:26:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 7:27:31 AM EDT by DarkCharisma]
Unions are useful for preserving adequate work environment for employees if their employers fail to do so.

I do firmly believe that, like many other things in this world Unions would work wonderfully if 1) all employers cared about their employees and 2) the Unions did not abuse their power.

Unfortunately Unions are commonly used to strong arm employers into higher wages and bigger pensions, even when the wage/pension does not match education/skill level for that field or match the wages of other companies in the same sector.

I cannot say that I love or hate unions. The Union did my family well a few times when my dad worked for Coca-Cola. But on a large scale I see them doing more harm than good these days.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 7:27:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By juan223:
What about cop and fire unions?


Worst of the worst. The public does not have a choice to opt out unlike UAW membered companies so they hold everyone hostage with no alternative. Same goes for any civil service union. But Cops and FF are a necessary function so it makes their power all the more. They can also be fucktards and be protected by union, problem is when they are fucktards people get hurt or die, serious business.

Link Posted: 6/29/2009 7:55:57 AM EDT


Using this as an example proves why people who post in these threads have no idea what they are talking about. Assuming these are skilled trades workers in an auto plant, which they very much appear to be, what else should they be doing? They have perimeters in which they are not allowed to leave... And that is a company rule... not a union one. If the line is running and there is nothing to fix, then what else should these guys be doing? The reason why they are not sent to another area to do something else is because of the time it takes to get back to their area if something breaks down in a plant the size of the one I work in (3 million square feet). If something breaks down in their area and they get the call, these guys will spring up and almost literally be running. What you don't understand is how astronomically expensive every single minute of lost production in an auto plant is. So, since every minute of downtime costs the company thousands and thousands of dollars, that is why they sit in their area and do nothing when everything is running instead of out sweeping in the parking lot or painting the wall on the other side of the plant where it will take 15-20 minutes to get back to their area IF THEY WALK FAST instead of the minute or two it takes them when they are right there.

This picture proves nothing besides that you know nothing about how an auto plant works... Union or non-union one.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 9:10:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chevyguy85:


Using this as an example proves why people who post in these threads have no idea what they are talking about. Assuming these are skilled trades workers in an auto plant, which they very much appear to be, what else should they be doing? They have perimeters in which they are not allowed to leave... And that is a company rule... not a union one. If the line is running and there is nothing to fix, then what else should these guys be doing? The reason why they are not sent to another area to do something else is because of the time it takes to get back to their area if something breaks down in a plant the size of the one I work in (3 million square feet). If something breaks down in their area and they get the call, these guys will spring up and almost literally be running. What you don't understand is how astronomically expensive every single minute of lost production in an auto plant is. So, since every minute of downtime costs the company thousands and thousands of dollars, that is why they sit in their area and do nothing when everything is running instead of out sweeping in the parking lot or painting the wall on the other side of the plant where it will take 15-20 minutes to get back to their area IF THEY WALK FAST instead of the minute or two it takes them when they are right there.

This picture proves nothing besides that you know nothing about how an auto plant works... Union or non-union one.




You guys love to kid yourselves, so much so you don't even realize how stupid you sound when you do it. There's always something useful a worker can be doing, that shop certainly looks like it could use some 5S. But I guess sleeping is the acceptable alternative in the union world, no surprise. Thanks for proving our point.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 9:20:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I also believe alot of people hate unions because they are jealous of what they have.




You're joking, right?







Link Posted: 6/29/2009 10:35:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chevyguy85:


Using this as an example proves why people who post in these threads have no idea what they are talking about. Assuming these are skilled trades workers in an auto plant, which they very much appear to be, what else should they be doing? They have perimeters in which they are not allowed to leave... And that is a company rule... not a union one. If the line is running and there is nothing to fix, then what else should these guys be doing? The reason why they are not sent to another area to do something else is because of the time it takes to get back to their area if something breaks down in a plant the size of the one I work in (3 million square feet). If something breaks down in their area and they get the call, these guys will spring up and almost literally be running. What you don't understand is how astronomically expensive every single minute of lost production in an auto plant is. So, since every minute of downtime costs the company thousands and thousands of dollars, that is why they sit in their area and do nothing when everything is running instead of out sweeping in the parking lot or painting the wall on the other side of the plant where it will take 15-20 minutes to get back to their area IF THEY WALK FAST instead of the minute or two it takes them when they are right there.

This picture proves nothing besides that you know nothing about how an auto plant works... Union or non-union one.



Want to sleep? Go the fuck home. There is always work to be done.





When was the last union contract that guaranteed more output/efficency?
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 10:37:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 10:47:07 AM EDT by Chevyguy85]
Originally Posted By mean_sartin:
Originally Posted By Chevyguy85:


Using this as an example proves why people who post in these threads have no idea what they are talking about. Assuming these are skilled trades workers in an auto plant, which they very much appear to be, what else should they be doing? They have perimeters in which they are not allowed to leave... And that is a company rule... not a union one. If the line is running and there is nothing to fix, then what else should these guys be doing? The reason why they are not sent to another area to do something else is because of the time it takes to get back to their area if something breaks down in a plant the size of the one I work in (3 million square feet). If something breaks down in their area and they get the call, these guys will spring up and almost literally be running. What you don't understand is how astronomically expensive every single minute of lost production in an auto plant is. So, since every minute of downtime costs the company thousands and thousands of dollars, that is why they sit in their area and do nothing when everything is running instead of out sweeping in the parking lot or painting the wall on the other side of the plant where it will take 15-20 minutes to get back to their area IF THEY WALK FAST instead of the minute or two it takes them when they are right there.

This picture proves nothing besides that you know nothing about how an auto plant works... Union or non-union one.



Want to sleep? Go the fuck home. There is always work to be done.





When was the last union contract that guaranteed more output/efficency?


If they go home, what happens when the line breaks down? What should they be doing if everything is running, all maintenance has been completed, there are no robots that need a tip change etc? You mock what I had to say but you offer no solution... What should they be doing that still allows them to be right by their tools and ready to go in under a minute if they are needed?

And they don't need a new contract to improve efficiency. If they decide that a job is not busy enough, it will be eliminated and combined into other jobs.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 10:43:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
Fuck labor unions.

Especially the I.B.E.W.

My dad spent over 45 years as a union electrician.

He went on strike when he was told, paid his dues whether he was working or not,
and was a "good brother" for all of his adult life.

His IBEW retirement is an absolute joke. (Around $400 per month)

If it wasn't for Social Security, he would be on welfare and food stamps, or would have to work
at Wally World as a door greeter just to survive.





It's not the union. The union is made of people just like your dad - good hard working men. And women.
It's just that a lot of real turds seem to get elected again, and again, and again.
The IBEW International officers don't give a damn about retirees.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 11:20:35 AM EDT
If osama bin ladin wanted to do some serious damage to the US, he would start a union. The worthless oxygen theives in unions have done more to hurt this country than all our foreign enemies put together.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:03:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By suprmatch:
What do you think is stopping alot of companies from paying everyone walmart wages? Why do you think you have holidays and vacation days? What do you think is stopping bosses from firing anyone they want at anytime?


What do you think causes artificial wage increases that drive up the cost of goods and services resulting in everyone paying higher prices? Its called inflation and paying artificially high wages is one of the causes.

Who is to say that Walmart wages would not be very good wages if the prices of lots of US goods weren't driven up by unions? You do understand that $5,000 a year used to be a lot of money?


In 1945

Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:09:39 PM EDT
I voted yes accidentally. I thought the title said unicorns.





Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:12:53 PM EDT
Unions suck for a number of reasons, but chief among them in my eyes is the fact that a lot of them serve as de facto fundraising machines for Dems.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:18:27 PM EDT
Lazy overpaid sheep who are told how they will vote. They don't give a fuck about our country. They only care about geting their check, benefits and a pension.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:27:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By akethan:
Lazy overpaid sheep who are told how they will vote. They don't give a fuck about our country. They only care about geting their check, benefits and a pension.


Tell that to the two or so million union workers that served in foreign wars.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:41:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I hate them so bad that I am considering buying my next truck from Toyota. Pretty sure they don't have any. Too many fuck heads in unions that are happy they don't have to work for a living. Too many union fucks bragging about sleeping for 6 hours a night and then using the money they make from me to elect Obama and his ilk.


I'm in a union and my coworkers and I work our asses off. My dad was also in a union before he retired (not the same union as me) and he worked his ass off, too.


Until you can stop your union from promoting Fascism I will not be supporting it no matter how hard you work.

I was a part of the United Paperworkers for 2 years. Never imagined I could be treated so bad. I was only 19years old and literally laughed at the boss when he screamed at me. He was stunned that anyone would scream right back in his face that he couldn't yell at me like that.

Years later I worked as a Tool and Die machinist, sinking dies in 4000 and 6000 ton forging presses. The two old farts that worked with me were union way back. They got pissed at me because I worked too fast. I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to put out as much accurate work as possible in the time I had. They both retired after I worked there for only 6 months. Too embarrassing to be shown as lazy when I was doing three to four times the work without trying. You can't pretend to be a good worker making 2 parts to my 8.


They were old and ready to retire. That's your job to take care of them. They came before you and someone will do the same. Thats the problem with people today

Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:41:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By suprmatch:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By suprmatch:
What do you think is stopping alot of companies from paying everyone walmart wages? Why do you think you have holidays and vacation days? What do you think is stopping bosses from firing anyone they want at anytime?


What do you think causes artificial wage increases that drive up the cost of goods and services resulting in everyone paying higher prices? Its called inflation and paying artificially high wages is one of the causes.

Who is to say that Walmart wages would not be very good wages if the prices of lots of US goods weren't driven up by unions? You do understand that $5,000 a year used to be a lot of money?


In 1945



Would you like to understand why I make more than that per month? Why its nothing to earn that anymore? Look in the mirror.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:45:57 PM EDT
They are no longer needed.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 1:51:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigJ_223:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I hate them so bad that I am considering buying my next truck from Toyota. Pretty sure they don't have any. Too many fuck heads in unions that are happy they don't have to work for a living. Too many union fucks bragging about sleeping for 6 hours a night and then using the money they make from me to elect Obama and his ilk.


I'm in a union and my coworkers and I work our asses off. My dad was also in a union before he retired (not the same union as me) and he worked his ass off, too.


Until you can stop your union from promoting Fascism I will not be supporting it no matter how hard you work.

I was a part of the United Paperworkers for 2 years. Never imagined I could be treated so bad. I was only 19years old and literally laughed at the boss when he screamed at me. He was stunned that anyone would scream right back in his face that he couldn't yell at me like that.

Years later I worked as a Tool and Die machinist, sinking dies in 4000 and 6000 ton forging presses. The two old farts that worked with me were union way back. They got pissed at me because I worked too fast. I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to put out as much accurate work as possible in the time I had. They both retired after I worked there for only 6 months. Too embarrassing to be shown as lazy when I was doing three to four times the work without trying. You can't pretend to be a good worker making 2 parts to my 8.


They were old and ready to retire. That's your job to take care of them. They came before you and someone will do the same. Thats the problem with people today



One of those two guys was responsible for training me. For the first month he checked all my work with micrometers, when the spec was +or- .003". I only used calipers for measuring and he about had a stroke for the first week. After a month he was still desperately trying to find an out-of-spec piece and couldn't find one. I was holding tighter tolerances than he was (+or- .001"). I found out later that the reason he used micrometers, and took three measurements on each dimension, was so he could spend more time measuring instead of turning steel.

It took this guy nearly a year before they would let him sink an impression in a $10,000 dollar piece of steel. I was doing it in a month with no schooling for tool and die. Another former union college was called backside by all the machinist because after 10 years as a machinist, they would only let him turn the back side of the dies since it was pretty hard to screw up. We tried to help him, but it took him 8 hours to cut the backside of the die. Just facing a boring with no difficult tapers or radii. I used to do an entire die in 8 hours.

for the first 6 months I was just excited to be there. Didn't really understand how much hate I had inspired that would drive two guys out of the shop. It was a great job. Better if we had coolant!
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:22:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By BigJ_223:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I hate them so bad that I am considering buying my next truck from Toyota. Pretty sure they don't have any. Too many fuck heads in unions that are happy they don't have to work for a living. Too many union fucks bragging about sleeping for 6 hours a night and then using the money they make from me to elect Obama and his ilk.


I'm in a union and my coworkers and I work our asses off. My dad was also in a union before he retired (not the same union as me) and he worked his ass off, too.


Until you can stop your union from promoting Fascism I will not be supporting it no matter how hard you work.

I was a part of the United Paperworkers for 2 years. Never imagined I could be treated so bad. I was only 19years old and literally laughed at the boss when he screamed at me. He was stunned that anyone would scream right back in his face that he couldn't yell at me like that.

Years later I worked as a Tool and Die machinist, sinking dies in 4000 and 6000 ton forging presses. The two old farts that worked with me were union way back. They got pissed at me because I worked too fast. I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to put out as much accurate work as possible in the time I had. They both retired after I worked there for only 6 months. Too embarrassing to be shown as lazy when I was doing three to four times the work without trying. You can't pretend to be a good worker making 2 parts to my 8.


They were old and ready to retire. That's your job to take care of them. They came before you and someone will do the same. Thats the problem with people today



One of those two guys was responsible for training me. For the first month he checked all my work with micrometers, when the spec was +or- .003". I only used calipers for measuring and he about had a stroke for the first week. After a month he was still desperately trying to find an out-of-spec piece and couldn't find one. I was holding tighter tolerances than he was (+or- .001"). I found out later that the reason he used micrometers, and took three measurements on each dimension, was so he could spend more time measuring instead of turning steel.

It took this guy nearly a year before they would let him sink an impression in a $10,000 dollar piece of steel. I was doing it in a month with no schooling for tool and die. Another former union college was called backside by all the machinist because after 10 years as a machinist, they would only let him turn the back side of the dies since it was pretty hard to screw up. We tried to help him, but it took him 8 hours to cut the backside of the die. Just facing a boring with no difficult tapers or radii. I used to do an entire die in 8 hours.

for the first 6 months I was just excited to be there. Didn't really understand how much hate I had inspired that would drive two guys out of the shop. It was a great job. Better if we had coolant!


Some more testimony from someone who thinks he is better than everyone else. And if you don't believe him, just ask him.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:41:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 3:43:33 PM EDT by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By danc46:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By BigJ_223:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I hate them so bad that I am considering buying my next truck from Toyota. Pretty sure they don't have any. Too many fuck heads in unions that are happy they don't have to work for a living. Too many union fucks bragging about sleeping for 6 hours a night and then using the money they make from me to elect Obama and his ilk.


I'm in a union and my coworkers and I work our asses off. My dad was also in a union before he retired (not the same union as me) and he worked his ass off, too.


Until you can stop your union from promoting Fascism I will not be supporting it no matter how hard you work.

I was a part of the United Paperworkers for 2 years. Never imagined I could be treated so bad. I was only 19years old and literally laughed at the boss when he screamed at me. He was stunned that anyone would scream right back in his face that he couldn't yell at me like that.

Years later I worked as a Tool and Die machinist, sinking dies in 4000 and 6000 ton forging presses. The two old farts that worked with me were union way back. They got pissed at me because I worked too fast. I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to put out as much accurate work as possible in the time I had. They both retired after I worked there for only 6 months. Too embarrassing to be shown as lazy when I was doing three to four times the work without trying. You can't pretend to be a good worker making 2 parts to my 8.


They were old and ready to retire. That's your job to take care of them. They came before you and someone will do the same. Thats the problem with people today



One of those two guys was responsible for training me. For the first month he checked all my work with micrometers, when the spec was +or- .003". I only used calipers for measuring and he about had a stroke for the first week. After a month he was still desperately trying to find an out-of-spec piece and couldn't find one. I was holding tighter tolerances than he was (+or- .001"). I found out later that the reason he used micrometers, and took three measurements on each dimension, was so he could spend more time measuring instead of turning steel.

It took this guy nearly a year before they would let him sink an impression in a $10,000 dollar piece of steel. I was doing it in a month with no schooling for tool and die. Another former union college was called backside by all the machinist because after 10 years as a machinist, they would only let him turn the back side of the dies since it was pretty hard to screw up. We tried to help him, but it took him 8 hours to cut the backside of the die. Just facing a boring with no difficult tapers or radii. I used to do an entire die in 8 hours.

for the first 6 months I was just excited to be there. Didn't really understand how much hate I had inspired that would drive two guys out of the shop. It was a great job. Better if we had coolant!


Some more testimony from someone who thinks he is better than everyone else. And if you don't believe him, just ask him.


Would a witness help?

Hey? Aren't you the guy who says murder is okay, but hates people who won't give money to bums?
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:46:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 3:50:12 PM EDT
It's absurd that a couple lazy jackwads can hold a multi-billion dollar company hostage because corrupt politicians and anti-capitalist state laws back them up in their insane demands. Anyone should be free to join or not join as they see fit and not have to worry about getting or losing their job over it.

Workers should be free to organize however they see fit. Corporations should be free to fire any or all of them as they see fit. Threatening to strike if you don't get your way should be prosecuted as extortion.

Link Posted: 6/29/2009 4:09:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Would a witness help?

Hey? Aren't you the guy who says murder is okay, but hates people who won't give money to bums?


I learned a long time ago that any body that bragged about how much harder he worked than anyone else is not someone you could trust as a witness.
You're such a good witness you state your false and biased opinion as fact.....
Every union shop I ever worked in came down to one thing - if you didn't work, you didn't stay. If you didn't carry your end of the stick, they would find someone else.
There's this thing called contracts and competition. If the employer can't compete, he doesn't stay in business and the workers, union or not, don't keep their jobs.
Do I love unions? No, lots of things I don't like about them. And really hate.
But I do know from working at union jobs vs non union jobs, the worker is better off IN MOST CASES at a union shop.
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 4:17:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 4:17:51 PM EDT by woodsie]
Hate them very much. They've anihilated the middle class and destroyed manufacturing in this country.

China thanks you very much for your efforts at getting all of our capabilities shipped overseas
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 4:18:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By danc46:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Would a witness help?

Hey? Aren't you the guy who says murder is okay, but hates people who won't give money to bums?


I learned a long time ago that any body that bragged about how much harder he worked than anyone else is not someone you could trust as a witness.
You're such a good witness you state your false and biased opinion as fact.....
Every union shop I ever worked in came down to one thing - if you didn't work, you didn't stay. If you didn't carry your end of the stick, they would find someone else.
There's this thing called contracts and competition. If the employer can't compete, he doesn't stay in business and the workers, union or not, don't keep their jobs.
Do I love unions? No, lots of things I don't like about them. And really hate.
But I do know from working at union jobs vs non union jobs, the worker is better off IN MOST CASES at a union shop.



So I am a braggart, and your a wannabee future murderer. I should be embarrassed.

Why exactly are you following me around acting like a little kid?
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 4:20:36 PM EDT
unions are bad, ding dong is bad. put the two together and you get realy fucking bad
Link Posted: 6/29/2009 4:24:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By batmanacw:

So I am a braggart,


Finally, you got something right.
The thread is about unions and why people like them or dislike them, not your personal relationships (or lack of).
You have stated you don't like them because you were a much better worker than older workers in a union shop.
Like I said, anyone in a skilled trade who brags he is a much harder worker than his coworkers, is someone I wouldn't trust.
Plain and simple.

Link Posted: 6/29/2009 4:38:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2009 4:49:46 PM EDT by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By danc46:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:

So I am a braggart,


Finally, you got something right.
The thread is about unions and why people like them or dislike them, not your personal relationships (or lack of).
You have stated you don't like them because you were a much better worker than older workers in a union shop.
Like I said, anyone in a skilled trade who brags he is a much harder worker than his coworkers, is someone I wouldn't trust.
Plain and simple.



Grow up. I gave 5 or 6 reasons in this thread alone. You are a pathetic stalker trying to reclaim your lost dignity from another thread. I suggest you drop your childish behavior.

The point of what I wrote, is to show the most common attitude among union members that I have dealt with. They don't believe they should have to work, much less work hard. Everyone got that except you, who is trying to use your silly opinion of me to discredit what I say. Pretty damn funny.

Did you justify any murders today?
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