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Posted: 1/11/2002 4:11:22 AM EST
Thursday, Jan. 10, 2001 11:51 p.m. EST GROUND ZERO OUTRAGE! Racial Changes Made in Ground Zero Firefighter Tribute Politically correct changes were made to a sculpted tribute to the firefighter heroes who raised the American flag at Ground Zero just hours after the World Trade Center was leveled on 9/11. The three flag-raising fireman, as depicted in a widely publicized photograph taken by New Jersey's Bergen Record, were white. But when a statue commemorating the event was unveiled at the FDNY's Brooklyn headquarters on Dec. 21, the three white firefighters had been replaced by a more "racially diverse" trio of unidentified Fire Department staffers. The $180,000 statue is the first memorial to the 343 firefighters and emergency medical personnel killed Sept. 11, reported Newsday at the time. The racial modifications came at the behest of Fire Department officials, artists with Studio EIS, located on York Street .
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 4:13:15 AM EST
nothing like worrying about being "PC" at a time like this...
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 4:18:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By MAUSER88: The $180,000 statue is the first memorial to the 343 firefighters and emergency medical personnel killed Sept. 11, reported Newsday at the time.
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I thought the statue of the firefighter that was supposed to come to Missouri was the first. It was actually done before the attack, and it was decided to keep it in NY after the attack. Missouri is supposed to get another one...actually the new statue I am talking about will be placed about 30 miles from my home...very cool. Changing the race of the statue does not suprise me..in fact..not much does anymore..I just sorta' expect crap like that to happen. medcop
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 4:40:51 AM EST
Didn't they turn at least one of the firefighters into a woman? Those filthy, sexist pigs! What an outrage! That statue is an insult to all of the female firefighters who died on 9/11, or at least would have died if it weren't for the discriminatory physical requirements used to keep women out of the firehouses. [whacko]
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 4:49:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 4:58:05 AM EST
Man, remember when they had that tribute to FDNY, the one with Hillary? Anyway, the day after that I read a cartoon by Keith Knight, this guy from San Francisco. The cartoon was basically pointing out that the FDNY was almost 100% white, which wasn't right, considering the diversity of NYC. What was this asshole's point? Was he envious that more black guys didn't have a chance to die rescuing people? The kicker was that after 9/11, his cartoon was lauding the fact that you couldn't tell what race the rescuers were, because of all the dust on their skin. I don't know. So pointless and irrelevant, but it keeps coming up over and over, this race business.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:01:26 AM EST
maybe they should alter the flag as well, people might get offended by all those white bars! [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:13:02 AM EST
Why is this an issue, if it's even true at all? Do you think all the bravest people who died that day were white? Death was color blind that day. And I'm sure those who were rescued or aided by the FD didn't care what color their firefighters were. I seriously doubt that the FDNY is almost 100% white, and if FD officials want to have the statue that way , I'd say they have a right to do as they see fit.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:24:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:31:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2002 5:32:46 AM EST by KBaker]
Does that mean we have to find every copy of the photo of the flag raising and edit it to show a black/hispanic/asian/native American/homosexual (does that show on film?)/mentally-challenged/physically disabled/hermaphrodite cross-dressing ([i]can[/i] hermaphrodites cross-dress? And how can they be homosexual? Only if they're attracted to other hermaphrodites?) firefighter? Wouldn't that be the San Francisco Fire Department, then? (edited to add: No offense to the San Francisco Fire Department, but I'm sure you knew what I meant.)
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:32:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By DScott: Why is this an issue, if it's even true at all? Do you think all the bravest people who died that day were white? Death was color blind that day. And I'm sure those who were rescued or aided by the FD didn't care what color their firefighters were. I seriously doubt that the FDNY is almost 100% white, and if FD officials want to have the statue that way , I'd say they have a right to do as they see fit.
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yeah, i mean, you have a point to an extent, but most people, me included, feel that truth has its place in history. let's erect a statue honoring last year's snowboarding champion, only instead of an [i]accurate[/i] depiction, let's make him a her, and let's make her black. see my point? i'm sure the guys who were "deleted" are pretty pissed off, imagine telling your grandson that you were one of the guys who raised the flag, and your grandson asks: "are you the black one grampa?"
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:41:57 AM EST
I agree that this is pure PC BS. There is, however, something more to be said (through symbolism - which is one of the main reasons statues are erected) about how the attack brought us together as 'one nation, under god, indivisible,...'. This statue should represent us as a nation united, and we shouldn't diminish it's meaning by bickering over the race any of the brave souls who gave their lives.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:42:24 AM EST
It's *art* guys, and meant to represent and honor ALL who were there, not be a literal re-enactment of a photo op. The guys in the photo do have the photo afterall, on every t-shirt, coffee mug, newspaper, and magazine cover in the country. Besides, how do you know they weren't consulted? Plus, the "golden rule" applies here- he who has the gold, rules. If you want to spend $180,000, you can have your statue include anybody you want... [:P]
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:52:51 AM EST
yeah, but this is a statue honoring the men who raised the flag! if nothing else, i think that there should be a separate memorial for the dead, and a seperate one for the unity of Americans. again, what if the statue of the Moon landing featured a woman and a Chinese-American? people in the future will be under a totally wrong impression.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:58:49 AM EST
Maybe the commerative statue of Iwo Jima should have some of the soldiers replaced by: 1 1 homosexual 2 1 Black Woman 3 1 Japanese-American (how fitting?) Remember, it's for the children.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 5:59:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2002 6:00:46 AM EST by MAC-DADDY]
I hope the fire fighters raised the flag for somthing more than to make another "flag raising at Iwo Jima pic".I beleive that the fire fighters involved are SURVIVORS of A HORRIBLY REAL WHEN SHTF. They are MY heroes.Are they yours?(EVERYONE?) And by the way y'all,the firefighters can show thier family PICS' AND VIDEO.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:08:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By MAC-DADDY: And by the way y'all,the firefighters can show thier family PICS' AND VIDEO.
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yes, and when their videos wear out, and the family is dead, who will be the keepers of TRUTH? the truth is those heroes, NOT an imaginary bunch of PC heroes, but THE ONES who did this being remembered. who knows? maybe the fake, PC heroes that don't exist may NOT have raised a flag? the point is, those three men DID.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:13:26 AM EST
Besides, what were those guys doing wasting time raising a flag when they should have been searching for survivors? This was early on in the recovery... Just kidding! But I wanted to point out that it was their actions as rescuers that made them heroes, not their making some symbolic gesture. And please don't confuse art with the truth!
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:15:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:21:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By DScott: And please don't confuse art with the truth!
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[:)] i won't, but it's not me, you, or even most on this board that i'm worried about! and beekeeper, too funny... ::looking over my shoulder:: ...what? i don't have any paperz!...wait, were are you taking me?!?!?!?
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:42:26 AM EST
Mac-daddy& beekeeper1 have been the only ones that posted anything worth saying!!! 1.Women fire fighters,i dont like haveing a woman forced down my throte because she is a woman not a fire fighter.To get me or my crew killed!! 2.As for PC screw that,those men raised that flag because they wanted to.They are heros so let it be honored as such!!! Every one wants to have something to say about the job those guys did on 9-11-01 including some of you.And how they should be honored. LET THE MEN WHO FOUGHT FOR THERE BROTHERS LIVES DECIDE!
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:44:02 AM EST
WOW!!! I caused a BIG stink didn't I? no one can take away from what those 3 men did they know it,WE know it The ethnic issue is in "VERY BAD TASTE"
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:46:20 AM EST
I AGREE WITH YOU 1ar
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:47:21 AM EST
WOW!!! I caused a BIG stink didn't I? no one can take away from what those 3 men did they know it,WE know it The ethnic issue is in "VERY BAD TASTE" i agree with you 1-hole ar
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:48:36 AM EST
Thanks MAC
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:53:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By DScott: It's *art* guys, and meant to represent and honor ALL who were there, not be a literal re-enactment of a photo op. The guys in the photo do have the photo afterall, on every t-shirt, coffee mug, newspaper, and magazine cover in the country. Besides, how do you know they weren't consulted?
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You say it's art, but it probably means a touch more than the Mona Lisa to the FDNY. Also, "every t-shirt, coffee mug, newspaper, and magazine cover in the country" will be landfill in a few years, but that statue will be around for a long, long time. It's historical revisionism, and it's wrong no matter how good it makes people feel.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 6:57:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By 1HOLE-AR: Mac-daddy& beekeeper1 have been the only ones that posted anything worth saying!!!
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ummmm, the way i read it, we all basically agree. [>:/]
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 7:10:59 AM EST
How many of you agree with me on this? THIS IS THE MOST BLATANT CASE OF RACISM I HAVE EVER SEEN !!! The fact that they are changing the races in the statute means they are in fact committing a racist act. This is a tribute to Firefighters and a memorial to the Victims. It's not about the race of those involved. At least it wasn't until they tried to be PC about it and made race an issue. [b] God, I hate liberals. [/b]
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 7:21:29 AM EST
I agree,"liberals" aren't my favorite either.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 7:21:35 AM EST
from this I gather that it is politically incorrect to be a straight white male.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 7:29:30 AM EST
Did they include the Puerto Rican guy with AIDS in the wheelcahir. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 8:31:23 AM EST
Your money, your statue, no big deal... It doesn't change what those guys did that day, or what they gave...
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 8:38:25 AM EST
Can anybody find a pic of this supposed statue?
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 10:21:20 AM EST
they really shouldnt bother with colors on it anyhow beyond the flag. as is with older metal statues they are all one color. why did they not let this be as well? colorize the flag for sure. the rest.... no need. why color its message? that america will not fall down or shrink from terrorist attacks against our country.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 1:01:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2002 1:02:53 PM EST by bulldog1967]
Originally Posted By DScott: Can anybody find a pic of this supposed statue?
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[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020111/capt.1010780858attacks_statue_nyr102.jpg[/img] "FILE -- A clay model of the sculpture entitled "Flag Raising At Ground Zero" was unveiled in Brooklyn, N.Y., in this Dec. 21, 2001, file photo. The statue, based on the famous photograph of the flag-raising at the World Trade Center site, is being criticized because the three white firefighters in the picture have been transformed into one white, one black and one Hispanic. (AP Photo/Robert Spencer, File) "
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 1:27:21 PM EST
Thanks! And this is the original photo: [img]http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/flag.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 6:06:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By DScott: It's *art* guys, and meant to represent and honor ALL who were there, not be a literal re-enactment of a photo op. The guys in the photo do have the photo afterall, on every t-shirt, coffee mug, newspaper, and magazine cover in the country. Besides, how do you know they weren't consulted? Plus, the "golden rule" applies here- he who has the gold, rules. If you want to spend $180,000, you can have your statue include anybody you want... [:P]
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I know for a fact that Firefighters Dan McWilliams, Billy Eisengrein, and George Johnson were not consulted. This issue has made us all sick. A proper memorial for all who served and made the supreme sacrifice should be made, and can be 'artisic'. History should not be rewritten at the direction of officials in the FDNY. When I think of this travesty, I want to vomit.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 6:24:49 AM EST
It is asinine to alter a historical event, just to be PC. But, FDNY and NYPD are union based jobs, so only sons, uncles, brothers, etc. will get the majority of the jobs, regardless of their competency. It's narrow minded thinking IMO, on both counts. waterdog
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 6:25:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 6:50:06 AM EST
Mac Thanks my blood is boiling. If I remember one of the guys didn't want to sit for the statue. Dam that’s how FDNY is, look at what they did to EMS. The only reason we were merged was to get more minorities in. So that they could get there Federal Aid. Until WTC EMS wasn't even counted has part of FDNY. We were a bunch of bastards, and to the administration still are. Yea none of us knew what color anyone was. We were lucky to be able to see and breathe. The statue is an insult to all FDNY/EMS/PD and minorities. What are Black, Hispanic & Women tokens to FDNY that’s all. It has taken almost 5yrs to get respect from allot of guys on the street that EMS is an emergency service. So it's no surprise to me that FDNY administration would do this. We know that every man & women no matter what color what lifestyle were the heroes there. Also lets not forget about those who came from all over the Country to help. The statue is a slap in the face to all mankind if not pictured in the way it really was that day.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 6:54:29 AM EST
This is only the beginning. I wonder how the "flag raising" is going to go down in the history books. I wonder if the books will show how it really happened, or will our children be shown a more politically correct picture of "the way it should have happened" Could you see a teacher some day in the future being accused of being a "racist" because he or she explains to the children that the men in that picture were actually all white? Steven
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 7:10:25 AM EST
"Daddy, is [i]THAT[/i] the statue of you raising the flag at the WTC site ??!" [b]"Yes son, it is."[/b] "Which one are [i]you[/i] ??" [b]"I'm the black guy."[/b]
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 9:51:40 AM EST
Reminds me of whitebread colleges that re-did their catalogs by photo-shopping in blacks and other minorities in attempt to make it look more diverse. There's a funny Onion piece about this topic that I read a long time ago. Funny that they think they can rewrite history on us. Brings a whole new meaning to the term "Orwellian." A picture (or a statue) is no longer proof of anything.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 10:26:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 10:38:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By ubergeek: from this I gather that it is politically incorrect to be a straight white male.
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You would be correct in your assumption.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 12:24:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By ubergeek: from this I gather that it is politically incorrect to be a straight white male.
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You would be correct in your assumption.
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Yeah, but we still own everything! [:D] Definition: "poetic license" n. The liberty taken by an artist or a writer in deviating from conventional form or fact to achieve a desired effect.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 12:29:17 PM EST
Now if everything artistic is supposed to represent things *exactly* as they happened, don't tell me this guy doesn't really play hockey... [img]http://jesusoftheweek.com/art/j2k-32.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 1:07:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 6:18:50 PM EST
No need for ME to add another thing;y'all got it all right.Thats how I feel too. God bless you all.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 8:37:35 PM EST
Let us Not Forget.... That the revisionists continue to strengthen their stranglehold upon reality. I simply remind everyone of the quote alluded to earlier, and credited to Orwell (from "1984") - "Who controls the past controls the present. Who controls the present controls the future." Slogan of the Ministry of Truth - in charge with regular historical revisions. Remember that some individuals have long memories, but the public collectively has a short memory, and is only lengthened by what is written, recorded, and displayed for posterity. For those in the KSSR Central Valley - do you think Gary Condit should REALLY have a chance in the coming election? He's running anyhow, from what I understand. You know, his role in the disappearance of Chandra Levy was never resolved to MY satisfaction... FFZ - Non-PC White Hetersexual Male. Married (TO A WOMAN! How non-PC!) Registered Lethal Weapon.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 8:45:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2002 8:50:21 PM EST by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By DScott: Your money, your statue, no big deal... It doesn't change what those guys did that day, or what they gave...
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Private money? Private design?? Then private viewing, keep it in your living room!! This is the ultimate in historical revisionism. Why not make the statue of Thomas Jefferson at the Jefferson Memorial into a statue of his dog? You know, dogs are intelligent, loyal, hardworking and trustworthy right? So was Jefferson. So with "artistic license" we can re-cast his statue into a beagle. Make sense? THAT'S "art". DScott, you have NO concept of the impact that artistic renderings have on the perception of historical events. [b]To so radically alter an obvious historical depiction is an insult to the intelligence of the viewer and to the honor of the actual men involved.[/b] We're not talking about giving their faces a more resolute appearance (THAT would be artistic interpretation). What this is, is not just a misleading representation of an actual event, but an outright lie. [b]To say this [u]honors all[/u] of the rescuers is to say that those two white men who were replaced were a [u]dishonor to all[/u] of the rescuers![/b]
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