NYT - Strip-Search of Girl Tests Limit of School Policy - Page 2

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Posted: 3/24/2009 12:40:15 PM EDT

[#1]

How the principle and the employees are not guilty of felony assault is totally incomprehensible to me.

Posted: 3/24/2009 12:41:08 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Personally I hope it does NOT cost the state a dime - but should come out of the pockets of the personal pockets of the administration that set the policy - they they would actually feel the hurt.

The state set the policy, and hired the retards to enforce it.

Posted: 3/24/2009 12:43:25 PM EDT

[#3]

this case has been fucking disgusting from the get go.

and congratulations drug warriors, you own it outright.

Posted: 3/24/2009 12:50:44 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So let me get this straight.

All of this over... ibuprofen. Not pot. Not coke. Not heroin. Not meth.

Ibuprofen.

And there wasn't just one school employee involved. There were three. At no point did any of these three adults think strip-searching a 13 year-old girl for ibuprofen was a bad idea.

I hope this school district gets screwed, because this story is insane.

God help the adult that coerces my children into disrobing.

Would it be okay if it was over pot, coke, heroin, or meth?

No.

But, it would be slightly less insane (but still insane) if it was for an "illegal" drug.

And, if the girl was selling meth and had a ton of it stashed on her body, I'd find it hard to feel sorry for her.

However, searching a student for contraband should be conducted by police with a parent or parent's designee present. Of course, I think probably cause should be necessary, but as the article states, SCOTUS disagrees with me on that too.

One of these days, some school officials will search the wrong kid. The kid will be a pathological liar and get the "officials" locked up and put on a sex offender registry.

Posted: 3/24/2009 12:50:50 PM EDT

[#5]

I have no words... I think everything that can be said has been said already. The short version: If that were my kid, I would be the one who needed a defense lawyer. You do the math.

Posted: 3/24/2009 12:51:58 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When I was in high school, you took aspirin if you had a headache. If a teacher saw you, they might ask to borrow some.

This nation's agitated pussies have effectively ruined common sense and reason.

You should see what happens when kids get in fights now. A teacher told me that both students get punished, even if one is just fighting back. I would bet if someone walked up and started punching the principal he would just stand there and accept a beating

At my son's school today, an 8th grader who is known for fighting decided to pummeling and nearly knocking out (dazed, with vision difficulty) a female classmate.

Another, much larger, male 8th grader flung the attacking boy halfway across the room to stop the little dipshit's attack on the girl.

He was not punished at all.

Posted: 3/24/2009 12:53:06 PM EDT

[#7]

If they did this to my daughter they would have a more "personal" type of problem then getting sued

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:02:09 PM EDT

[#8]

This is completely retarded. Schools seem to think that they're some sort of law enforcement entity, and have complete power over their students.

For example, here's a US law, and the authority it grants:

14USC89(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship's documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance.

Where is the law that grants teachers and principles the authority to strip search little girls and use drug dogs on students?

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:06:50 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yaaaaay, "War On Drugs" !!!

Not only is it costing lives, now it's gonna cost a couple of million bucks.

Yaaaaay!!!!

I hope this costs the state more that " a couple of million bucks". I think a 9 digit number will keep them from ever making that mistake again. The Government only seems to change when it costs money not to.

Sorry guys, but I think this is one of those times where the conservative wing of the bench will side with the school.

TXL

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:09:46 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
That's disgusting. I hope she the perpetrators gets justice.

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:13:10 PM EDT

[#11]

They should be subject to the same ROE as law enforcement when it comes to searches. Anything less opens up the door for abuse of power by the state; using teachers to perform searches instead of cops in order to circumvent the rules.

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:15:20 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
when i was in middle school we were searched with drug dogs like prisoners.

two school administrators, the school resource officer, and the police dog handler burst into the room in the middle of class.

we were forced to line up shoulder to shoulder while they ran the dog up and down the line.

then in highschool sitting in studyhall.

two administrators and the recource officer bursts into the room yelling hands up! like a stick up!

they took metal detectors over us and our bags and searched our bags.

its a good way to start indoctrinating young people to give up their rights and give in to being searched.

i thought it was always ironic how we were taught about the constitution and the bill of rights and the 4th amendment, yet in school i am subjected to warrantless searches like a convict in prison. they claim "in loco parentis"

That's some serious NAZI BS, right there.

School property = different standard....

The Army has even lower standards for searching things on base, BTW...

I've had my personal quarters searched with dogs (As part of a unit-wide inspection) at least 4 times since I've been in... My car dog-searched once, etc...

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:16:44 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
The failure called "War on Drugs" makes home schooling look better.

Quoted:

The school district does not contest that Ms. Redding had no disciplinary record, but says that is irrelevant.

“Her assertion should not be misread to infer that she never broke school rules,” the district said of Ms. Redding in a brief, “only that she was never caught.”

Guilty until proven innocent.

+1

If that's the "standard" these shitheads want to go by, what's to stop someone from saying they robbed a bank and simply haven't been caught? Lack of felony convictions would be irrelevant too!

In a friend-of-the-court brief in Ms. Redding’s case, the federal government said the search of her was unreasonable because officials had no reason to believe she was “carrying the pills inside her undergarments, attached to her nude body, or anywhere else that a strip search would reveal.”

It won't be legal for much longer...

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:19:27 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
This is completely retarded. Schools seem to think that they're some sort of law enforcement entity, and have complete power over their students.

For example, here's a US law, and the authority it grants:

14USC89(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship's documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance.

Where is the law that grants teachers and principles the authority to strip search little girls and use drug dogs on students?

SCOTUS has held that the 4A does not apply to minor students on school property, where matters of student safety are in question....

I would guess they are going to 'adjust' the policy to prevent strip-searches by school officials (if they really think she's concealing contraband on her person, have the police (who are trained professionals) do it, with a parent present... Detain the kid & make sure she has no chance to discard contraband... If the police say 'no, we won't - they probably have a good reason for it....)

However, drug dogs are perfectly reasonable...

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:23:26 PM EDT

[#15]

they may have ruined her life, but at least they knew she wasnt going to kill everyone with pills.

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:35:19 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
when i was in middle school we were searched with drug dogs like prisoners.

two school administrators, the school resource officer, and the police dog handler burst into the room in the middle of class.

we were forced to line up shoulder to shoulder while they ran the dog up and down the line.

then in highschool sitting in studyhall.

two administrators and the recource officer bursts into the room yelling hands up! like a stick up!

they took metal detectors over us and our bags and searched our bags.

its a good way to start indoctrinating young people to give up their rights and give in to being searched.

i thought it was always ironic how we were taught about the constitution and the bill of rights and the 4th amendment, yet in school i am subjected to warrantless searches like a convict in prison. they claim "in loco parentis"

That's some serious NAZI BS, right there.

School property = different standard....

The Army has even lower standards for searching things on base, BTW...

I've had my personal quarters searched with dogs (As part of a unit-wide inspection) at least 4 times since I've been in... My car dog-searched once, etc...

Grade school is not, and should not be, the Army - so your comparison is specious, at best.

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:46:40 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You should see what happens when kids get in fights now. A teacher told me that both students get punished, even if one is just fighting back. I would bet if someone walked up and started punching the principal he would just stand there and accept a beating

Part of the "zero tolerance" level of thinking.

When I lived in New Jersey the local high school instituted a similar program. Even if a student curled up into a ball and got kicked, he still got suspended. The end result was that since students figured they were going to get suspended anyway, they may as well earn it. Fights became more violent and vicious, and serious injuries occurred. One girl's head was slammed through the re-enforced glass of a trophy display case.

Zero tolerance = zero intelligence.

Interesting quote there....

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:49:13 PM EDT

[#18]

"Spread your cheeks and lift your sack." I thought they reserved that shit for prison, not middle school students.

Posted: 3/24/2009 1:55:35 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Why the fuck do people put up with this shit? Take your kids OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL.

NO kid, NO money, no money and the bullshit stops!

They teach them bullshit anyway for the most part. Mostly they teach them to be good little cogs in the corporate machine, it's not education in a classical sense in any way, shape or form.

What is more important to you than your kids? Wake the hell up and GTFO!

That is not an alternative for most people. The private high schools in the San Gabriel Valley(5 miles east of Los Angeles) charge about $20-$25K/school year. You would probably have to earn $50-60K/year to just to keep you child in 'skool.' I would say that home schooling is an alternative, but in Calif home school has been curtailed because of some lawsuit.

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:03:19 PM EDT

[#20]

One of the pills is as strong as two Advils

oh, I didn't know if was over something serious like that.

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:23:20 PM EDT

[#21]

more pure win:

"the school district said in a brief that it was “on the front lines of a decades-long struggle against drug abuse among students.” Abuse of prescription and over-the-counter medications is on the rise among 12- and 13-year-olds, the brief said, citing data from the Office of National Drug Control Policy."

how many students are on Ritalin??

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:25:31 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Personally, I think you don't surrender your constitutional rights when you enter a school

==================================================

An assistant principal, enforcing the school's antidrug policies, suspected her of having brought prescription-strength ibuprofen pills to school. One of the pills is as strong as two Advils.

why take 2 advil when you can take 1 aleve?

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:33:50 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
more pure win:

"the school district said in a brief that it was “on the front lines of a decades-long struggle against drug abuse among students.” Abuse of prescription and over-the-counter medications is on the rise among 12- and 13-year-olds, the brief said, citing data from the Office of National Drug Control Policy."

how many students are on Ritalin??

Quoting the ONDCP in a drug case is like quoting the Brady Bunch in a gun case.

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:34:50 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Why the fuck do people put up with this shit? Take your kids OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL.

NO kid, NO money, no money and the bullshit stops! !

So in addition to being a raving socialist, you have no idea what a "property tax" is and where it goes.

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:38:18 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
"Spread your cheeks and lift your sack." I thought they reserved that shit for prison, not middle school students.

Most 13 year olds these days know you have to keister stash it to be in full stealth mode.

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:48:53 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of this over... ibuprofen. Not pot. Not coke. Not heroin. Not meth.

....but it was "prescription strength".

As strong as TWO Advil, WTF has this Country become? if that was my Daughter I would have been in Jail for sure

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:51:13 PM EDT

[#27]

If that were my daughter someone would have gotten their butt kicked!

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:56:00 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why the fuck do people put up with this shit? Take your kids OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL.

NO kid, NO money, no money and the bullshit stops!

They teach them bullshit anyway for the most part. Mostly they teach them to be good little cogs in the corporate machine, it's not education in a classical sense in any way, shape or form.

What is more important to you than your kids? Wake the hell up and GTFO!

That is not an alternative for most people. The private high schools in the San Gabriel Valley(5 miles east of Los Angeles) charge about $20-$25K/school year. You would probably have to earn $50-60K/year to just to keep you child in 'skool.' I would say that home schooling is an alternative, but in Calif home school has been curtailed because of some lawsuit.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/09/local/me-homeschool9

Parents may home-school children without teaching credential, California court says
Gov. Schwarzenegger praises the reversal by the 2nd District Court of Appeal as a victory for students and parental rights.

By Seema Mehta
August 09, 2008

Parents may legally home-school their children in California even if they lack a teaching credential, a state appellate court ruled today. The decision is a reversal of the court's earlier position, which effectively prohibited home schooling in the state and sent shock waves of fear throughout the state's estimated 166,000 home-schoolers.

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:58:55 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
If this what not in school it would be child molestation.

Exactly. The principle and the two women who did the search should be arrested and sent to the pen as child molesters and never be allowed to be around children again. THAT'S what will make this shit stop. If it hits the moron the other morons will see and go "Hummmm, never mind". WJ

Posted: 3/24/2009 2:59:09 PM EDT

[#30]

Lots of stupid people in the public school system, I am in a very good position to know right now.

Can't even begin to wrap my head around what those two school officials were thinking.

Posted: 3/24/2009 3:01:32 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Pics?

Posted: 3/24/2009 3:02:23 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So let me get this straight.

All of this over... ibuprofen. Not pot. Not coke. Not heroin. Not meth.

Ibuprofen.

And there wasn't just one school employee involved. There were three. At no point did any of these three adults think strip-searching a 13 year-old girl for ibuprofen was a bad idea.

I hope this school district gets screwed, because this story is insane.

God help the adult that coerces my children into disrobing.

Would it be okay if it was over pot, coke, heroin, or meth?

No.

But, it would be slightly less insane (but still insane) if it was for an "illegal" drug.

And, if the girl was selling meth and had a ton of it stashed on her body, I'd find it hard to feel sorry for her.

However, searching a student for contraband should be conducted by police with a parent or parent's designee present. Of course, I think probably cause should be necessary, but as the article states, SCOTUS disagrees with me on that too.

One of these days, some school officials will search the wrong kid. The kid will be a pathological liar and get the "officials" locked up and put on a sex offender registry.[/quote]

As they should be. WJ

Posted: 3/24/2009 3:03:09 PM EDT

[#33]

All administrators involved should be charged with sexually assaulting a minor. Ridiculous.

Posted: 3/24/2009 3:05:45 PM EDT

[#34]

No tolerance = no more job for some folks. Jeebus.

Ibuprofen is the debbil.

Posted: 3/24/2009 3:05:58 PM EDT

[#35]

The 12 year old daughter of a friend of mine was just expelled from middle school recently. Her offense? Giving a Midol to a female friend who was experiencing PMS cramping. She gave her ONE Midol and has now been expelled for the remainder of the year.

Posted: 3/24/2009 3:08:11 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

The 12 year old daughter of a friend of mine was just expelled from middle school recently. Her offense? Giving a Midol to a female friend who was experiencing PMS cramping. She gave her ONE Midol and has now been expelled for the remainder of the year.

Zero tolerance: Because discretion leads to discrimination lawsuits.

Posted: 3/24/2009 3:16:32 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
All administrators involved should be charged with sexually assaulting a minor. Ridiculous.

+1

Posted: 3/24/2009 3:30:15 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Why the fuck do people put up with this shit? Take your kids OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL.

NO kid, NO money, no money and the bullshit stops!

They teach them bullshit anyway for the most part. Mostly they teach them to be good little cogs in the corporate machine, it's not education in a classical sense in any way, shape or form.

What is more important to you than your kids? Wake the hell up and GTFO!

LOL - quite a few ARCOM couch commandos were touting public school as the best place for children to be protected from religious nuts, to acquire social skills and good science instruction, in the thread about the NC judge who ordered a woman in divorce court to put her children in public school.

Posted: 3/24/2009 4:05:13 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
when i was in middle school we were searched with drug dogs like prisoners.

two school administrators, the school resource officer, and the police dog handler burst into the room in the middle of class.

we were forced to line up shoulder to shoulder while they ran the dog up and down the line.

then in highschool sitting in studyhall.

two administrators and the recource officer bursts into the room yelling hands up! like a stick up!

they took metal detectors over us and our bags and searched our bags.

its a good way to start indoctrinating young people to give up their rights and give in to being searched.

i thought it was always ironic how we were taught about the constitution and the bill of rights and the 4th amendment, yet in school i am subjected to warrantless searches like a convict in prison. they claim "in loco parentis"

That's some serious NAZI BS, right there.

unfortunately it happens all the time, all across the country.

Happened at my high school. Dogs sniffed the cars, then the lockers, then the classrooms. The son of a prominent judge had something in his car and we never saw him again. Of course now the school is surrounded by 8 foot high chain link fences.

And OMG prescription strength aspirin! She might have gone ALL DAY without a headache! BURN THE WITCH!

Posted: 3/24/2009 5:52:08 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
SCOTUS has held that the 4A does not apply to minor students on school property, where matters of student safety are in question....

Not true. In NJ v. TLO they held that the pot found when a principal searched the bag of a student looking for cigarettes could be used at trial because the burden of safety in the school was sufficient to outweigh concerns about the 4th amendment rights of the student in question. The court has also held that students can be subjected to drug testing as a condition of participating in extracurricular activities because of their voluntary nature. The court hasn't suspended the 4th entirely, and the "student safety" angle hasn't been concretely defined.

A strip search for some ibuprofen based on rumor is most likely going to be WAY over the line. I'm not a fan of many torts brought into court these days, but this one is a legit constitutional tort that needs correction.

Posted: 3/24/2009 5:54:26 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Exactly. The principle and the two women who did the search should be arrested and sent to the pen as child molesters and never be allowed to be around children again. THAT'S what will make this shit stop. If it hits the moron the other morons will see and go "Hummmm, never mind". WJ

If the court holds this to be a 4th amendment violation of the student's rights and holds that constructive knowledge applies then the teachers won't have qualified immunity....which means they can be sued individually. I don't know if that's part of the case or not as I haven't seen the briefs for it. I also don't know if the school indemnifies teachers.

Posted: 3/24/2009 5:56:42 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Zero tolerance: Because discretion leads to discrimination lawsuits.

The fear behind these "zero tolerance" policies is liability. Schools are scared crapless that a kid is going to give another kid a pill, and then the kid will have a severe reaction and/or croak, and then the school gets sued up the wazoo for not preventing the trading of drugs in the school.

Some tort reform would fix some of that stupidity...although nothing short of firing some people will cure stupidity of the level seen in this instance.

Posted: 3/24/2009 5:57:19 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
when i was in middle school we were searched with drug dogs like prisoners.

two school administrators, the school resource officer, and the police dog handler burst into the room in the middle of class.

we were forced to line up shoulder to shoulder while they ran the dog up and down the line.

then in highschool sitting in studyhall.

two administrators and the recource officer bursts into the room yelling hands up! like a stick up!

they took metal detectors over us and our bags and searched our bags.

its a good way to start indoctrinating young people to give up their rights and give in to being searched.

i thought it was always ironic how we were taught about the constitution and the bill of rights and the 4th amendment, yet in school i am subjected to warrantless searches like a convict in prison. they claim "in loco parentis"

That's some serious NAZI BS, right there.

unfortunately it happens all the time, all across the country.

Happened at my high school. Dogs sniffed the cars, then the lockers, then the classrooms. The son of a prominent judge had something in his car and we never saw him again. Of course now the school is surrounded by 8 foot high chain link fences.

And OMG prescription strength aspirin! She might have gone ALL DAY without a headache! BURN THE WITCH!

I just hate it when these stupid f'csk change our nice "skool" campuses to prisons or prison camp settings. I've seen some pictures of Club Fed facilities that are nicer than our "skools."

Posted: 3/24/2009 6:01:43 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

And there wasn't just one school employee involved. There were three. At no point did any of these three adults think strip-searching a 13 year-old girl for ibuprofen was a bad idea.

I just got a comical vision of me looking under a desk for 3 shell casings.

Posted: 3/24/2009 6:12:59 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

One of the pills is as strong as two Advils

oh, I didn't know if was over something serious like that.

TWO advils.

Not just one. Not just and and a half. TWO.

That's a gateway drug, man. That's a high enough dosage to... to...

...to alleviate a headache!

It probably even had the shoulder thing that goes up!

She's lucky they didn't put her in the stocks.

Posted: 3/24/2009 6:21:33 PM EDT

[#46]

Clear backpacks today, clear clothing tomorrow. At least they have sex education already in schools.

Posted: 3/24/2009 6:23:29 PM EDT

[#47]

"...prescription-strength ibuprofen pills to school. One of the pills is as strong as two Advils."

Someone or someones need to be fired.

EDIT: Even if they thought it was heroin, they still need to be fired. Strip searching a 13 year old??? They need to be arrested.

Posted: 3/24/2009 6:29:26 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
SCOTUS has held that the 4A does not apply to minor students on school property, where matters of student safety are in question....

Not true. In NJ v. TLO they held that the pot found when a principal searched the bag of a student looking for cigarettes could be used at trial because the burden of safety in the school was sufficient to outweigh concerns about the 4th amendment rights of the student in question. The court has also held that students can be subjected to drug testing as a condition of participating in extracurricular activities because of their voluntary nature. The court hasn't suspended the 4th entirely, and the "student safety" angle hasn't been concretely defined.

A strip search for some ibuprofen based on rumor is most likely going to be WAY over the line. I'm not a fan of many torts brought into court these days, but this one is a legit constitutional tort that needs correction.

You will note that I am NOT defending the school strip-searching the kid...

Posted: 3/24/2009 6:30:18 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

And there wasn't just one school employee involved. There were three. At no point did any of these three adults think strip-searching a 13 year-old girl for ibuprofen was a bad idea.

I just got a comical vision of me looking under a desk for 3 shell casings.

Use a brass catcher or a revolver, DUH!