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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:03:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2002 6:45:10 AM EDT by IAJack]
This made me mad as hell in our local news channel this AM. Can someone tell me how this is legal, it smells like violation of cival rights to me if they are just stopping ppl in public and searching. What right do they have to detain? Iowa National Guard Launches Terrorist Training Troops Will Train For Two Weeks POSTED: 6:34 p.m. CST January 8, 2002 UPDATED: 9:36 p.m. CST January 8, 2002 WEST DES MOINES, Iowa -- The Iowa Army National Guard launched a two-week training mission Tuesday preparing members to protect our state against terrorist attacks. Troops will be stationed in areas like Waterworks Park and Maffet Reservoir. Anyone driving or walking in or out of those areas will be subject to a military search. Military helicopter pilots surveyed Des Moines all day Tuesday getting shots of the places troops will patrol. "They know with events that have occurred they have a role here and they're prepared to do that role," Lt. Col. Tim Orr's said. Starting next week, officers will be making their presence known around town as part of their terrorist training. They'll be checking for id's and searching through vehicles. The Guard knows some people might consider the searches invasive, but officials said the idea is to be prepared when and if it's ever necessary. Aside from training, the exercises are meant to serve as a reminder to Iowans. That attacks could happen here and we all need to be better prepared. The Iowa Guard is working with the Governor's office and the Homeland Defense Coordinator so that any problems that come up can be worked out. Iowa is the first state conducting this kind of training.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:06:27 AM EDT
Boy, would I get into trouble if that happens here!
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:13:47 AM EDT
And what, I wonder, happens when a citizen tells them to "get a warrant or get stuffed"?
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:15:37 AM EDT
Seemingly the teeny tiny problem that the military cannot act as a police unit due to the Posse Commatus (sp?) Act that would seem to make this plan illegal. I wouldn't last two seconds when one of these yahoos asked me for "zee papers". I'd probably show them my CCW first................
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:22:02 AM EDT
Boy, would I get into trouble if that happens here!
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Boolsheet! I'm tempted to take a drive to Iowa. [pissed]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:23:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 6:24:23 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Whoa! Is that for real? [b]"...the exercises are meant to serve as a reminder to Iowans"[/b] A reminder of what? That the Jack-Booted Thugs don't want any back-talk from uppity civilians? [b]"...the idea is to be prepared when and if it's ever necessary."[/b] Necessary to do what? They practice violating Constitutional rights to systematically desensitize you to doing it more often?! Wasn't Iowa a Gore-state? Maybe just they have it coming. Aren't there ANY "Americans" left in Iowa?
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:26:51 AM EDT
Let alone, the right again illegal search and seizure.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:28:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:28:23 AM EDT
I dont believe it untill I see a minstream link. And yes I would be in big trouble If this did happen here. It would be a bad day for all involved as matter of fact!
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:36:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By paterpk: I dont believe it untill I see a minstream link. And yes I would be in big trouble If this did happen here. It would be a bad day for all involved as matter of fact!
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Good point. A lot of us bit on the PETA/deer hunt story too. I'd like to see a solid story backing this up.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:38:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 7:39:03 AM EDT by BURN]
Originally Posted By Paul: I've been caught up in military (the real military and not the Iowa Guard) and have simply told the check point personnel that I don't have time to participate in your exercise so get the police here to arrest me or let me go. On the military base itself you have to play by their rules because it's their ball ground.
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I like that "I dont have time for your Training exercise" ...can some on in Iowa try this out..the results would be intresting...I bet different personnel will handle it in 180 degree different ways.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:41:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 6:45:02 AM EDT by IAJack]
Here you go, the links.. Down the page on the left under current headlines [url]http://www.theiowachannel.com/[/url] [url]http://www.theiowachannel.com/news/1181653/detail.html[/url] "...the idea is to be prepared when and if it's ever necessary." I think I will tell them that is why there is a rifle in my trunk, would that fly? If they want to train why dont they root the illegals in the packing plants here Later IAJack
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:42:33 AM EDT
Paul - I'm a bit suprised at you. Given the NatGuard genius who shot a hole in his gluteus maximus recently, I'd say the NatGuard needs to to trained how to fire their service rifle and sidearm, NOT trained how to perform illegal searches that violate the BOR as well as violate the Posse Commitatus Act. Are you "our" Paul, or a cheap immitation???? [}:D] (Note: I'm ONLY addressing the theory of the story, NOT its validity.)
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:00:11 AM EDT
Well, I just called the Gov office and left a question or message stating my concerns, he said he would pass it along to the Gov. - I may need help soon guys, think I will get in trouble? Get me a good lawyer like oneshot if you don't hear from me in a few days Later IAJack
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:12:46 AM EDT
I haven't got time to play your games. Arrest me if you are the police, otherwise fuck off. Hold me agains my will, search me or anything I own with out a warrent and I WILL hve your ass in court as well as those of your commanding offficers. Go find the bad guys and don't screw with us honest citizens. BTW if you didn't get this before, fuck off.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:18:18 AM EDT
IAJACK, I hope the gov calls yu back ant tells you it is volentary to play the game, I cant believe they are trying this off base! No mater what the gov says i would have to tell them to kiss my AS#. and drive away. .......pat
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:19:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IAJack: Troops will be stationed in areas like Waterworks Park and Maffet Reservoir. Anyone driving or walking in or out of those areas will be subject to a military search.
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I read this as these will not be random searches on main street. Instead a specific place, in this case a park, is being turn into a natioanl guard training area. If you [b]choose[/b] to enter that park, then you will be a willing participant in their training exercise. If you prefer not to participate, then stay out of the park.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:19:46 AM EDT
BTW for those with Broadband watch the video on the links I provided above, that will irratate you I almost feel the need to call out the Tyrany Response Team
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:24:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IAJack: BTW for those with Broadband watch the video on the links I provided above, that will irratate you I almost feel the need to call out the Tyrany Response Team
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Post the phone # you called here, and I will call and tell them that I as a resident of South Carolina am concerned about the precedent they are setting. And DO call the TRT. Nip this thing in the bud, bud.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:30:18 AM EDT
Well, I guess me being in the MN Guard, and before that, the Iowa Guard I have a differnt view. Number one. We respond to the State Gov. He (or She) is our boss. We get called out all the time for state emergencies such as tornados, floods, snowstorms, you name it. Its our job. If the man has fears about something heppening on state property, then he can call us out. Thats what those areas described are, state property. If you don't like the idea for whatever reason, then don't go there. Some of the same people who bitch about this, would be bitching about it if nothing was done, and those water sources were contaminated. Then there would be the hue and cry of "Why the hell were those water sources not protected". Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. Next, its a training thing. You complain that Guard people don't get the training they need, then bitch because they are training for something. Should the troops train for this inthe Armory gymnasium?Nothing like realistic training eh? Sheesh people, think about it a little. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:33:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: Next, its a training thing. You complain that Guard people don't get the training they need, then bitch because they are training for something. Should the troops train for this inthe Armory gymnasium?Nothing like realistic training eh? Sheesh people, think about it a little. Aviator ]
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There is absolutely NO reason for them to be training how to violate the BOR and the Posse Commitatus Act. And while the Gov. may be their immediate boss, the Nat Guard is a FEDERAL organization. I'm all for training - just not JBT training. See the difference????
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:37:22 AM EDT
i can see themerit of the idea, but they cant just search people. i wonder what would happen if someone refused a search
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:42:56 AM EDT
What if I wanted to use the park for a picnic and didnt want to play in their games.. [::)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:47:25 AM EDT
As I see it they did not make it clear that the searches would be voluntary or not upon entering the area. If some one just walks onto a public place-a park and is then searched for just being there is that not a violation of cival rights? Its a public place damnitt! If someone wanted to contact the TRT if warrented I would be there. I would just like to find out how "voluntary" this is first GM- here is the link and info to the Gov office: [url]http://www.state.ia.us/governor/comments/index.html[/url] Comments Desk Here are your contact options if would like to contact the Governor's office. 1- Mailing Address: Office of the Governor State Capitol Des Moines, IA 50319 2- Phone or Fax: (515) 281-5211 (515) 281-6611 fax Later IAJack
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:50:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: If you don't like the idea for whatever reason, then don't go there. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
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Oh, so now you're Federalizing public property and claiming the territory as YOUR OWN. How about this: If you don't want to get yer NoGo ass run over, don't steup in front of my truck.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:51:00 AM EDT
The point is, is that it's STATE OWNED LAND. They could also start charging $100 a head to go in there if they wanted. Thier land, thier rules. No different than somethig like an airport. You go in the airport, you play by the FEDs rules. I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't like JBT any more than you guys, or big brother, but I know the people doing this job. They are just like you and I, only they serve one weekend a month. Not thier decision what they do that one weekend. IAJack is doing the right thing, if he does not like the idea, call the Govs office, don't run the troops into the ground. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:55:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 7:57:02 AM EDT by Aviator]
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: Oh, so now you're Federalizing public property and claiming the territory as YOUR OWN. How about this: If you don't want to get yer NoGo ass run over, don't steup in front of my truck.
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No, state owned land is NOT public land. The state LETS you use it. You want rules, come out here to the West and try riding a motorcycle in the National Forest. That will get you a lot of attention, tickets, and heartburn. Why do you guys think so many of us were making such a big stink about the CARA act and the NRA supporting it. That allows the FEDs to make people sell them private land. More control for the greenies. The troops are not coming into your house and doing paper checks, they are on STATE OWNED LAND. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img] BTW, Great attitude Sample.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:57:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 7:58:07 AM EDT by IAJack]
Actually the two parks in the story are city owned I believe?
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:01:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: The point is, is that it's STATE OWNED LAND.
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There is NO SUCH THING as state owned land. The "state" owns nothing. The people own it - but have consented to allow the state to maintain it, utilize it and develop it - with the CITIZENS money, to boot. Nowhere, in any case, on ANY property, can the state violate the BOR or the Possee Commitatus Act. Nowhere does the state have UNFETTERED right to violate the BOR. Hence the "voluntary" nature of the ID check, as IAJack recently informed us. Their are NO "Tyranny Zones" anywhere in the continental US (or Alaska or Hawaii.) Which begs the question - WHY are they "practicing up on" their BOR-violation skillz????
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:04:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: No, state owned land is NOT public land. The state LETS you use it. .
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Boy oh boy - the republic is LOST. "The state let's us use their land."[rolleyes] The FF are rolling, no spinning, in their graves.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:05:07 AM EDT
Year before last when I was still in the Guard here in NM we had to setup and man roadblocks because of all the fires at Las Alamos. We were not armed and all we really could do was tell people the road was blocked off. We also helped move firefighters around from place to place and we tried to help out any way we could. I sure as hell would not want to be armed and tring to stop and search all the Rednecks in this state. The clueless Bastards in charge of our government need to realize that a determined, fearless, and armed population is the best defense know against terrorists.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:05:54 AM EDT
Being from Iowa and having worked with people from the Iowa National Guard and living next door to about three of them I can honestly say that I would not even trust these people to mow my lawn. Although thought I have a few close personal friends in the guard that are actually taking part of this process in Des Monies I still would not hesitate to tell them to F@#K Off if they tried to search me for anything. Besides they are not police and if they even laid a hand on someone there @$$ would be in a sling. These people have no concept about law or even wiping there @$$. I'm with BobCole on this one. HERES MY CCW [:(!]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:08:40 AM EDT
Aviator - Understand soemthing. I am NOT criticising the Nat Guard "grunt" in the field, per se. he is just following orders. Albeit, unConstitutional orders. My disgust is for those who have sent them their to do that. The ONLY way my admiration and respect for teh NatGuard "grunts' could be increased is if one of them chose to disobey the unConstitutional order.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:19:56 AM EDT
I still have no confirmation of whether this is voluntary or not? Atleast the strory did not make that clear
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 8:32:45 AM EDT
A few things: 1) Aviator, you have a very twisted sense of what is what. Who did your brainwashing? It's magnificent! 2) In case Aviator is playing devil's advocate, I agree--the state officials act like monarchy, not public servants, so in a sense, Aviator is right, it [b]is[/b] their land and we petty foolish serfs had better start acting accordingly. 3) The next terror attack isn't going to be at an airport, but it is going to bring the Guard out into the public sphere more and more so that the same horrible things taking place in airports will suddenly be taking place on the highways and other areas as well. 4) Can anyone explain exactly what a terrorist can do to the water supply except maybe cut it off? Poisoning drinking water would require huge truckloads of some substance, it's not like a few little vials of anything will cause any problem whatsoever. Even radioactive materials will not unduly poison even a small resevoir. 5) The Constitution and the BOR are good for rallying around, but honestly, there's only a handful of politicians in DC who care about it anymore and they are getting pretty old. The truth is that we don't have the protections of our founding documents and have not had them for quite some time. Until we restore rightful rule in this country, it will remain so. 6) At this point, I'm hoping for another, bigger attack. Hopefully on the traitors themselves rather than innocent civilians. Aztlan wold probably be an improvement over Gray Davis' Kali, btw.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 9:18:48 AM EDT
Btt for the lunch crowd
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 9:32:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: STATE OWNED LAND.]
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If you think you give up your Constitutional rights just because you leave your front door, you're mistaken. STATE OWNED LAND is the public's land. If they want to charge us to use a state park, fine. If they think we're gonna sit still while wannabe JBTs violate our rights, think again. BTW, I'm not specifically bashing our NG troops (aside from the gratuitous JBT comment), as I myself have 15 years of active and reserve service. But, this is just plain wrong. If they want to train, there are plenty of NG and reserve bases and training areas to lurk around. Public lands belong to the people, not the state.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:06:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: The point is, is that it's STATE OWNED LAND. They could also start charging $100 a head to go in there if they wanted. Thier land, thier rules. No different than somethig like an airport. You go in the airport, you play by the FEDs rules. I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't like JBT any more than you guys, or big brother, but I know the people doing this job. They are just like you and I, only they serve one weekend a month. Not thier decision what they do that one weekend. IAJack is doing the right thing, if he does not like the idea, call the Govs office, don't run the troops into the ground. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
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Actually, it's not 'their land', but we all know it may as well be. As far as mountains and molehills, I think this is a damn good question for IAJack to be asking, because these issues do press the doctrine of Posse Comitatus, which as we [i]all[/i] are aware of precludes military troops from performing law enforcement duties except where martial law has been declared. As the history of gun control shows, the first step on a slippery slope often leads to consequences heretofore unseen. I also don't see where everyone is dissing the weekend warriors. All these questions seem to show intelligent and reasonable concern. Seems these days that the National Guard is only good for wandering unarmed around airports and shooting themselves in the tuckus anyways, eh? shooter
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:21:01 AM EDT
They should add racial profiling to their training, that way they won't be able to stop anyone because the state is something like 99.5% whitey. If my mom (an Iowa native) heard of this, she would be very displeased. In fact, my uncle would probably run them over with his truck. But he's old school Iowa.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:22:11 AM EDT
How many posts have I read that went something like this, "I'm in the Army/Navy/Marines/Nat'l Guard and none of the guys [b]I[/b] work with would obey unconstitutional orders against our own people!!!" Yet here we are, with the Iowa Nat'l Guard doing exactly that and half the people on the board are supporting this clear violation of civil rights. Undoubtedly these guys need training, but not to voilate citizens' rights. Sate land or Federal land, this is still the USA. Or, are we willing to sacrifice so much liberty for some illusion of security?
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:35:04 AM EDT
Aviator, you are just plain WRONG! The government does not own any land or property. I frequently demonstrate this with some of my favorite things to do: I often enter CIA headquarters. When the guards try to stop me, I tell them that the building and the land belong to the people, and that as a person, I am entitled to go anywhere I want. They always back off. Then I go read all the records they have stored there. I like to go down to the local nuclear power plant (it's pronounced NU-CU-LAR) and fool around with all the controls on the equipment that runs the plant and supplies the grid with power. No one can stop me, because as a member of the public, it's my property. Another good time is when when I go down to the water plant and start disassembling the pumps that supply water to the city. Man them things are fun to take apart. Usually, some engineer or something will come over and start sweating me about it, but I just tell him to go away and stop bothering me because as a member of the public, I have a right to fool with anything that belongs to me. They always go away. So, as you can see, I can clearly demonstrate that the government does not own any property, and has no right to restrict anyone's access to any property they lay claim to. Here's another tip that can help everyone: When I get pulled over by a cop, I always tell them that as a member of the public, my taxes pay their salary, which makes me their boss. Then I tell them that as their boss, I order them to leave me alone. Works every time. Sometimes I order them to do other things before I leave, like sing a song, or put on a skit in my honor.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:37:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: Some of the same people who bitch about this, would be bitching about it if nothing was done, and those water sources were contaminated. Then there would be the hue and cry of "Why the hell were those water sources not protected". Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
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Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img], You ABSOLUTELY are correct. People who admittedly do not know the whole story are crying about his like mommy took away their pacifier. What is that saying? Women b!tch and men Bulsh!t? I am reading a WHOLE lot of b!tching. OH, look surprise, it is mid-month too…[sleep] -Velveeta
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:38:41 AM EDT
Hey GovtThug, Thats a funny way to make your point. ROTFLMAO!!!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 10:49:25 AM EDT
If gov't does "own" anything, its only becasue nancy's like y'all FORGET to remind them of who, according to the Constitution is ultimately sovereign. That, and as I stated above, we the governed have CONSENTED to give them custodial hold of OUR property. Who paid for the land?? NOT the gov't. WHo paid for the construction of the building? NOT the gov't. Who pays for the security that keeps the civilians out?? NOT the gov't. Who pays for the electricity, the paper clips, the repairs, the salaries of the employees who work their?? NOT the gov't. Who owns it?? NOT the gov't. Gov't is NOT a producer or owner of anything. It merely is a necessary parasite that we have consented to run a few things for us, due to expediency. Thru the consent of the governed they have custodial care or whatever we ultimately ALLOW them to have. Ya'll mindset is what created Commiefornia. And you can make your little hyperboles (gov't thug - well named [:D] )and disregard what the Constitution intended, and then COUNT THE DAYS until gov't RELLY DOES take everything you have de facto given them. Not me. Not here.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:11:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 11:12:38 AM EDT by Aviator]
Originally Posted By garandman: If gov't does "own" anything, its only becasue nancy's like y'all FORGET to remind them of who, according to the Constitution is ultimately sovereign.
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Yeah, but that has been going on for years. A lot longer than I have been alive. Not saying I support it. I fight for land use rights out here in WA state most of the time I am not posting here on AR15.com. I even have a group and web site ([url]www.dredgeearthfirst.com[/url], but I know [b]HOW[/b] things are, not how they are supposed to be. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:16:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator:
Originally Posted By garandman: If gov't does "own" anything, its only becasue nancy's like y'all FORGET to remind them of who, according to the Constitution is ultimately sovereign.
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Yeah, but that has been going on for years. A lot longer than I have been alive. Not saying I support it. I fight for land use rights out here in WA state most of the time I am not posting here on AR15.com. I even have a group and web site ([url]www.dredgeearthfirst.com[/url], but I know [b]HOW[/b] things are, not how they are supposed to be. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
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that's kool. We've to some degree been given this "used diaper" of gov't control becasue those before us got complacent. At least you have done something about it. In short, THAT is my point. And again, I'm talking about how things OUGHT to be, not so much how they are, presently.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:24:47 AM EDT
And its probably a lot more than the asses on here have done that are whining. For that matter, My 8 years active, and 4 years Guard is probably more than most of these "patriots" have done. My work in this thread is done.. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:35:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: No, state owned land is NOT public land. The state LETS you use it. You want rules, come out here to the West and try riding a motorcycle in the National Forest. That will get you a lot of attention, tickets, and heartburn. The troops are not coming into your house and doing paper checks, they are on STATE OWNED LAND. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
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Aviator, While I agree with you that "State-owned land" (of which Nat'l Forests are not, but that's an aside) is managed differently than "public" land I disagree with your apparent complacency with what is happening in Iowa - that they are [u]rehearsing[/u] the suspension of Constitutional rights for citizens. To brush this issue off simply because "the troops are not coming into your house and doing paper checks" is missing the point. When "they" are all well-practiced in civilian-control drills and prepared for the psychological impact of violating fellow citizens rights and fully organized to implement a [u]wider[/u] application of these actions, then it will be too late to complain. Don't you see a slippery slope? The fact that the "practice run" is happening on State Land is irrelevant. Aren't you concerned with the implications of what this is a "practice" FOR? I thought that was the real issue.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:36:33 AM EDT
Okay, so the IANG is holding a two-week exercise at these parks. essentially, the parks are closed for a military exercise and have, in essence, become a military installation for the duration. Hmmm. I guess this meaans that they can search whoever they damn well want to, since they have care, custody and control of the land for that period of time. This in no way violates 4th Amendment rights, because search and seizure authority derives in large part from the reason for the detention. Detention at the entrances or egress from a controlled access facility imparts very, very little in the way of 4th Amendment protection, unless the person was somehow coerced into entering. Just to make things clear, almost every military installation I have ever been to has big signs at all gates letting you know that entry constitutes consent to search of your property and person. That is a doctrine long established and upheld by case law and is in no way unconstitutional. And BTW, all of you folks ranting about this being a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act (and I also noticed that very few of you knew how to spell it) are flat out wrong. The National Guard only falls under the aegis of Posse Comitatus when they are federalized. It does not apply to orders from their governor or state authorities. This is how the Guard can stop looters in a disaster area, for example, without waiting for (or needing) a declaration of martial law. One last note: those who are concerned about the NG harassing innocent park patrons need to use a little bit of common sense. Ever been to Des Moines in January? It is so cold that it actually hurts to breathe. Nobody goes to the park in January, unless school got snowed out and they are going sledding. Everybody pretty much stays indoors and dreams of a day when they can move somewhere with highs in the 70s in January, like where I am now.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:43:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: they are [u]rehearsing[/u] the suspension of Constitutional rights for citizens.
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HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody finally "gets" it. thanks MCCallan. I was beginnin' to wonder if Rosie had figgered a way to re-route my login to HER "Queen of Nice" board. [}:D] (just kidding, fellas)
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:54:25 AM EDT
Originally posted by garandman: Thru the consent of the governed they have custodial care or whatever we ultimately ALLOW them to have.
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Yes, and part of that custodial care is security. Now, rehearsing for security around a reservoir makes sense. As for Water Works Park, I don't know. Is that a park that also has the water purification/production plant? Or is it strictly a recreational area?
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