The pilot was right.  The SS agent was unprofessional, and maybe does not deserve to be in the position he now serves.  Give him a desk job for  a couple of years, or have him chase fake dollars in Alaska to cool him off.

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY!!!  NO SHAME!

Thank you HUN!  (Even though we disagree on several things (Israeli attack on the Liberty?), THIS is one time when you NAILED it!

Sic Semper Tyrannis!

[;D]

PS:  Why does it take an ambulance chasing, bottom feeding, land shark attorney to spot another one at his trade?  Are they like skunks or something?  (My best friend's wife is ADA in Santa Barbara, CA.  A VERY happy and well kept man too.  Sweet lady...but I'd not like to be going up against her in court.)

Please enlighten me if I am wrong, but, I am unaware of any independent, objective evidence supporting the pilot's version of what happened, and that was what started this thread – JUST the pilot's side of things.

The only independent witness supports the SS guy's version of events.

Whether or not you like the SS guy's lawyer, or the fact that he hired one, is irrelevant.

My point is this: You present one side of the story, quote one witness's testimony, not even any cross, and everyone wants to convict! Some justice!

Point well taken.  When the civil trial gets underway...as it foolishly seems to be heading towards inexorably, many witnesses will come forward.  At that time, crewmembers, airport personnel, passengers, airport cops and the SS guy and his associates will all get their time in court.  Then we will be able to get a good look at the evidence and determine whether or not this guys "rights" were violated.

Having said that, we should remember that no matter what, the pilot in command of the aircraft has the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to decide wheter or not ANY passenger flies on his or her plane.  ABSOLUTE.  You may not like that but it is a FACT.  Truth be known, I don't even know if that rule is codified or not.  Doesn't matter in the least in my mind.  He/she is the one flying the plane...he/she make the rules.  Always been that way...always will be that way.  This ain't rules by committee.  You do as the guy says or you find another way to your destination.

American Airlines will back their man all the way to the Supremes if necessary.  They aren't about to give one inch.  Further, I think given a few weeks for the dust to settle, Bush and his people, including the SS, will back off and tell this agent to forget it and accept some public apology.  In the meantime, if I'm leading the POTUS detail, this agent is not.  No distractions here.

I am most disappointed that Bush said what he said but I certainly understand the politics of that move.  I am more disappointed that the agent got his nose so far out of joint, especially considering all that has happened since 9-11, that he had to go get a lawyer and take this to court rather than call for a summit meeting with all concerned.  I think it would have been much easier for all of us if they had just convened a meeting and issued a joint statement.  American would have had wiggle room to make a public abject apology and assure the flying public that although they deeply regret the misunderstanding, they don't intend to relax their vigilance one iota.  The agent would have gotten his abject public apology and saved face for losing his cool...and we could have all gone back to worrying about important stuff like killing terrorists and watching the playoffs!

[;D]

LWilde,

I completely agree with you regarding the pilot having the authority to turf anyone off his plane. Furthermore, I believe that it is right and proper that the pilot should be entrusted with such powers – in fact, I think anyone who is responsible for passenger safety (busdriver etc.) should have the same right.

However, its axiomatic that those vested with such power should exercise their authority in a responsible manner and be held accountable for their actions. Just as a LEO can be charged with false arrest if he acts without sufficient justification.

In this particular instance, the SS agent obviously does not feel that the pilot was justified in exercising his right to kick him off the plane. And, through the courts, the SS agent is exercising his own rights (and your's and mine) and is demanding that the pilot be held accountable.

The issue before the court will not involve the authority of the pilot. It will be whether or not was he JUSTIFIED in exercising that authority. Unlike the majority of the members who have responded to this thread, the court will make its decision after hearing BOTH sides of the story and ALL the evidence submitted.

Post from stcyr -

Wow, how thoroughly decent. You believe that the pilot or captain [u]should[/u] have complete authority and responsibility for crew and passengers (they already do!), but that whenever the captain actually exercises that right to make decisions based upon his own judgment at the time, it's perfectly legitimate that he should be called into court for questioning of his motives in whatever decisions he makes!

Are you o.k. with the amount of money that it takes to run a courthouse, for all the salaries of all the court personnel to give your SSAgent plaintiff his access to the civil courts?

Are you o.k. with the amount of time this captain will be required to spend away from his flight duties and responsibilities to attend depositions, hearings, mediations, etc., not to mention for the interminable delays in actually getting to trial?

Are you o.k. with the 'chilling effect' that such lawsuits might create in the minds of airline captains that make the 'almighty dollar' a part of their consideration of whether to let a suspicious passenger board or not?

Yes, and the captain should be answerable to American Airlines only for what happened on the tarmac that day. Or to the FAA. But not to 'Joe Schmoe, SSAgent and Provocateur' and his ambulance-chasing Pettifogger!

READ: [b]He wants money! His attorney wants some of that money![/b] If he wanted an apology he wouldn't have gone to the lawyer and the lawyer to the press! Money? Understand?

And all this because the idiot couldn't fill out a legal form that he should have been used to filling out counteless times before!

He'll get used to filling out legal forms in the near future!

And I bet his days on the President's personal SS team are dwindling to a close!

Ooooh, do I smell [u]another[/u] lawsuit?

Eric The(AskHisLawyerIfHeSmellsIt,Quick!)Hun[>]:)]

You want to see how the SSAgent should have handled it? Like a man!


'That's o.k., he understands, everyone's doing his job.'

[Quote is from Peggy Noonan's latest article in WSJ-Opinion]

Eric The(And[b]He's[/b]ADemocrat!)Hun[>]:)]

I work for a major airline and am very sure that people got curious about his bags because he left the aircraft.Rule #1 all persons are required to take their bags with them when leaving the aircraft.If I see one person depart after boarding and leave their bags that's cause for bomb search of the aircraft been there done that.Rule #2 captians rule period.They do tend to take the power to their heads but they are the captian.Some of the info might not have been directed to the agent on the form.Therefore not required.Also everyone is spooked now and he most likely wanted to remain under cover.I never look at the agents accept if I'm on the aircraft and the captians asks me to decribe the agents.I'ts not cool to blow their cover and make a seen.You never know what they could be up to or working on.He must of been put on the spot I see alot of ss guys around and they are very cool.I have my doubts about this story but they should have done this in private not to bring attention to the  agent..I like having them around so maybe someone else is telling him to sue.

Eric,

If you read my previous post again, it may become clear to you that I am aware that the pilot already this right and that I was advocating extending that right to others who reponsible for passengers safety – if they don't already have that same authority.

Expressing your opinion (before the facts are in) is one thing but this –  determined effort to force your own unsupported assumptions about this SS agent's motives down my throat – is something else again!

Incidentally, it is my understanding that the AA personel had run out of forms and it was an AA employee who scibbled changes to the original form – not the SS agent.

What is evident is that the facts regarding this incident are anything but clear. Still, I doubt that you will let that stand in your way of your passionate defense of the pilot and character assasination of the SS agent.

How about a little common sense on the part of the SSA.  Every commercial airline pilot is scared s**tless. The recent events are still fresh in their minds. They have to be thinking every time they start their push off "Is there someone on the flight who wants to do us harm?" It's an awesome responsibility to be responsible for the safety of the flight crew and passengers.  When I fly I want the pilots to be concentrating on flying the plane and not worrying about a passenger.

Let's turn the situation around a little. What if the SSA was working his protection detail and he felt the pilot was a suspected assassin? Need I say more?  The SSA would have taken what he thought was the appropriate action.

If there was an issue the SSA should have just checked his weapon(s) and sought redress through the proper channels.

Obviously I wasn't there and like someone said there are "three sides to every story."

why should he check his weapon what if he did and something went down they would hang him high in the media for doing that.I want that agent packing just think how much security he brings on board.Ya know I've gone round and round with pilots over the years and they always write their report first and some are quite abusive they always make you look bad.This as jet mechs know is the one who writes first has the best chance of screwing the other guy.This captian has nothing to worry about they won't do anything to him but the agent has more to loose.[b)]

You are probably correct on that but the fact remains that the PIC has the last word on who gets to fly on his aircraft.  The PIC was responsible for the flight and not the SSA.  

BTW, in NY even a bus driver has the right to have a passenger removed from his bus if he feels the passenger is a threat to the safety of the other passengers.

Sorry, [b]stcyr[/b], but no one trying to run anything down your throat. You got opinions, I got opinions, all God's chillun got opinions!

Eric The(MineAreJustCorrect)Hun[>]:)]

ETH: Well we all know that opinions are like assholes.  All God's chillun got them! [:D]

Fair enough, Eric The – MineAreJustCorrect(IfThe FactsBareMeOut)Hun.

You probably won't believe me but, I have no dog in this fight. I was just astounded by the number of people willing to hang this SS guy right off the bat!

As JARHEAD_BOB said, the guy who first gets his report in gains the initiative.

Post from stycr -

I believe you!  I was just beginning to think you'd been bumped off a flight recently![:D]

Eric The(Let'sJustAgreeToWatchThisUnfold)Hun[>]:)]

Am I beginning to hear a Kumbaya here?