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AJTurner1234
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:34:16 PM
What gun do you think would be superior for grizzly bear defense?

A Marlin 45/70 gun guide with hot loads....

or a 12 gauge loaded with 3" or 3 1/2" slugs



Discuss.
Keith_J
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:35:30 PM
.45-70 has deeper penetration, even with express bullets (330 grain).

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HUMONGO
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:35:49 PM
I went with both
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XDBACKUPGUN
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:36:02 PM
I use an aluminum baseball bat for bear defense.


ARFCOM taught me this.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:36:04 PM
I think the 45/70 is a handier gun to tote. I believe the 12gauge offers more energy, but the 45/70 has plenty to get the job done so its a moot point.
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Of course we spend a lot of time on guns. Lets face it. A bag of wheat has only so many uses and none of them are fun.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:36:43 PM
Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:
I use an aluminum baseball bat for bear defense.


ARFCOM taught me this.


that was a great thread.
Headless_T_Gunner
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:37:22 PM
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?
Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

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Bubbatheredneck
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:37:49 PM
45/70 but the 12 gauge is much more versatile.

The GG is a one trick pony compared to an 870 with mag slug loads and buckshot and birdshot in the pack.

But in the face of a griz, I would want a .375 or bigger.


only1asterisk
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:38:19 PM
I don't worry too much about bears, but I it was problem I'd rather have the 45/70 and a heavy, heat treated cast bullet with a big meplat. That said I wouldn't feel too bad about having a 12ga with Brenekke slugs.

I want to buy your Berdan primed brass!
ultramagbrion
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:38:25 PM
Id tote my 45-70..................and whatever happened to the guy who was gonna hunt bear with a spear??
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:39:35 PM
500 S&W Magnum = 440 grain .50 cal @ 1600 fps
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Headless_T_Gunner
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:39:38 PM
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
45/70 but the 12 gauge is much more versatile.

The GG is a one trick pony compared to an 870 with mag slug loads and buckshot and birdshot in the pack.

But in the face of a griz, I would want a .375 or bigger.




He did not ask which was more versatile. The question was pretty simple.
Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

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DonS
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:40:44 PM
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?




I'm sure the .45-70 has failed a few times as well. Slugs have more than enough penetration to kill deer, and they are .50" and larger, so a 12 gage slug failure would pretty much have to be the result of very poor placement.

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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:42:45 PM
45-70 with garret 540grn hammerheads @1550 fps
The_Distance
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:42:57 PM
I got both.
burns117
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:44:23 PM
[Last Edit: 2/26/2009 8:46:33 PM by burns117]
Originally Posted By AJTurner1234:
What gun do you think would be superior for grizzly bear defense?

A Marlin 45/70 gun guide with hot loads....

or a 12 gauge loaded with 3" or 3 1/2" slugs



Discuss.


12 gauge is so close or just a tad better than the 45/70 it all boils down to what you want one is not better that the other
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:44:48 PM
Originally Posted By The_Distance:
I got both.


yeah, but you can't shoot both at the same time; sooner or later, you've got to make a decision.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:45:01 PM
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?




I'm sure the .45-70 has failed a few times as well. Slugs have more than enough penetration to kill deer, and they are .50" and larger, so a 12 gage slug failure would pretty much have to be the result of very poor placement.



Depends on the slug. The old 'rifled slugs' , the cup shaped ones with the ribs, are very soft and sometime just flatten out and fail to penetrate. They totall suck as a big game bullet. Other designs such as sabbot slugs and Brennekie type slugs are much better. But in general 45-70 is always a better choice than 12 ga. slugs.

Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

Galatians 5:1
burns117
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:45:09 PM
[Last Edit: 2/26/2009 8:47:42 PM by burns117]
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?


Dumbest thing I have ever read like the 45 70 hasn't failed to kill with bad shots.
edit
the new sabot slugs like Hornady SST make this a what do you have question, not what is better .
oldschool63
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:46:45 PM
either one will get the job done


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theliberating1
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:47:42 PM
[Last Edit: 2/26/2009 8:50:14 PM by theliberating1]

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?

12 gauge slugs don't fail to kill deer, poor shooting does.



I'd be comfortable with either.
Remember, while you are watching American Idol, those centrifuges just keepaspinnin...
2A373
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:48:42 PM
Originally Posted By bluetick357:
45-70 with garret 540grn hammerheads @1550 fps


I flinched just reading that!


XDBACKUPGUN
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:49:35 PM

Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?

12 gauge slugs don't fail to kill deer, poor shooting does.

No need for logic.


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postpostban
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:50:34 PM
Originally Posted By CK:
500 S&W Magnum = 440 grain .50 cal @ 1600 fps


Divie gun works Hardened slugs, .60 caliber. Not much is going to beat this load
Headless_T_Gunner
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:52:14 PM
Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?

12 gauge slugs don't fail to kill deer, poor shooting does.



I'd be comfortable with either.



Sometimes 12 Ga. slugs fail despite good shooting and proper shot placement. They are just not a good choice when facing a dangerous animal.
Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

Galatians 5:1
Headless_T_Gunner
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:52:14 PM
[Last Edit: 2/26/2009 8:52:59 PM by Headless_T_Gunner]
Double tap.
Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

Galatians 5:1
ArmyInfantryVet
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:52:45 PM
[Last Edit: 2/26/2009 8:53:02 PM by ArmyInfantryVet]
No Grizzly around here to worry about...
Headless_T_Gunner
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:57:10 PM
Ok. Lets try this logic. Who you going to believe, someone who has actually killed a bear or someone who has a lot of experience reading about shotgun slugs on the internet?
Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

Galatians 5:1
lumper
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:58:14 PM
45-70
only1asterisk
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Posted: 2/26/2009 8:59:22 PM
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Ok. Lets try this logic. Who you going to believe, someone who has actually killed a bear or someone who has a lot of experience reading about shotgun slugs on the internet?


I believe the guy that's killed bear: Me
I want to buy your Berdan primed brass!
theliberating1
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:00:02 PM

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?

12 gauge slugs don't fail to kill deer, poor shooting does.



I'd be comfortable with either.



Sometimes 12 Ga. slugs fail despite good shooting and proper shot placement. They are just not a good choice when facing a dangerous animal.


At what range? We aren't talking about dangerous game... you said deer.
Remember, while you are watching American Idol, those centrifuges just keepaspinnin...
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:00:31 PM
45.70 FTW
burns117
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:01:35 PM
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?

12 gauge slugs don't fail to kill deer, poor shooting does.



I'd be comfortable with either.



Sometimes 12 Ga. slugs fail despite good shooting and proper shot placement. They are just not a good choice when facing a dangerous animal.


theliberating1
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:02:06 PM

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Ok. Lets try this logic. Who you going to believe, someone who has actually killed a bear or someone who has a lot of experience reading about shotgun slugs on the internet?


Unless you tried to kill a bear with a 12 gauge slug and failed... what you just typed makes no sense.
Remember, while you are watching American Idol, those centrifuges just keepaspinnin...
burns117
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:03:23 PM
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Ok. Lets try this logic. Who you going to believe, someone who has actually killed a bear or someone who has a lot of experience reading about shotgun slugs on the internet?


I have killed bear deer and man with 12 gauge slugs and nothing says dead right now better than a slug.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:03:26 PM
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Well the 45-70 has killed just about every animal on earth. 12 ga. slugs sometimes fail to kill deer. Does that answer your question?




I'm sure the .45-70 has failed a few times as well. Slugs have more than enough penetration to kill deer, and they are .50" and larger, so a 12 gage slug failure would pretty much have to be the result of very poor placement.



Depends on the slug. The old 'rifled slugs' , the cup shaped ones with the ribs, are very soft and sometime just flatten out and fail to penetrate. They totall suck as a big game bullet. Other designs such as sabbot slugs and Brennekie type slugs are much better. But in general 45-70 is always a better choice than 12 ga. slugs.



I don't doubt that the old style slugs are less than ideal on a large bear, but I have trouble with the idea that they fail to penetrait sufficiently for deer.

Grug
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:04:07 PM
.375 H&H For Brown bears , 12 gauge for Black Bears
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:04:36 PM
I would trust myself with a 45/70 before 12 Gauge slugs.

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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:04:47 PM
Go with a 338 or 375 magnum and forget the 45/70 or 12 ga.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:05:03 PM


F.O.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:07:10 PM
A 12-gauge slug will do the job, but a .45-70 will fuck shit up and then some.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:07:29 PM
Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Ok. Lets try this logic. Who you going to believe, someone who has actually killed a bear or someone who has a lot of experience reading about shotgun slugs on the internet?


Unless you tried to kill a bear with a 12 gauge slug and failed... what you just typed makes no sense.


There is but one way to settle this. I challange you to a grizzly bear hunt. You use a 12 ga. with slugs and I will use a 45-70. You may go first.

Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

Galatians 5:1
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:09:44 PM
Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:
I use an aluminum baseball bat for bear defense.


ARFCOM taught me this.


Stern look raised eye brow...
We need to put the WE the people back into government and it is no one else's fault if we fail.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:12:19 PM
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Ok. Lets try this logic. Who you going to believe, someone who has actually killed a bear or someone who has a lot of experience reading about shotgun slugs on the internet?


Unless you tried to kill a bear with a 12 gauge slug and failed... what you just typed makes no sense.


There is but one way to settle this. I challange you to a grizzly bear hunt. You use a 12 ga. with slugs and I will use a 45-70. You may go first.



You pay and I'm in.
I want to buy your Berdan primed brass!
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:13:33 PM
Originally Posted By postpostban:
Originally Posted By CK:
500 S&W Magnum = 440 grain .50 cal @ 1600 fps


Divie gun works Hardened slugs, .60 caliber. Not much is going to beat this load


I bought a bunch of his Terminator loads when he first came out with them.

It is a whole different kind of whoop-ass.

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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:14:38 PM
Originally Posted By only1asterisk:
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Ok. Lets try this logic. Who you going to believe, someone who has actually killed a bear or someone who has a lot of experience reading about shotgun slugs on the internet?


Unless you tried to kill a bear with a 12 gauge slug and failed... what you just typed makes no sense.


There is but one way to settle this. I challange you to a grizzly bear hunt. You use a 12 ga. with slugs and I will use a 45-70. You may go first.



You pay and I'm in.


How about the loser pays?

Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

Galatians 5:1
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:14:48 PM
Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:
I use an aluminum baseball bat for bear defense.


ARFCOM taught me this.


that was a great thread.


Was that better than the thread about the guy that killed a bear with a buck knife?
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:14:49 PM
Gee, I think I'd lean towards a .45-70.


A semi auto 12guage would be plenty handy... but I'd feed many many rounds through it to ensure it was reliable.
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:15:27 PM
I'm going to say they're about even in performance, with the edge possibly going to a shotgun loaded with magnum Brenekes. That's what I would choose if my bacon was on the line anyway.

Check out this bear defense report. Kind of like an old school 'Box of Truth' (halfway down the page- "view and print this publication"). The 405 gr. 45/70 is dead even with the 12 ga. 2 3/4 load. This goes without saying that there are better choices today for each.

http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/5573

Konger
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:15:40 PM
Only this forum would argue like hell about two big killers.

Whats better 152mm howitzer or 155mm


Which is why I don't understand these questions here. I mean I understand because these threads are train wrecks, but....

Doesn't it depend more on what you use in them? I know of some pretty lame ass 45/70 and kick ass 12
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Posted: 2/26/2009 9:15:54 PM
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Originally Posted By only1asterisk:
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Ok. Lets try this logic. Who you going to believe, someone who has actually killed a bear or someone who has a lot of experience reading about shotgun slugs on the internet?


Unless you tried to kill a bear with a 12 gauge slug and failed... what you just typed makes no sense.


There is but one way to settle this. I challange you to a grizzly bear hunt. You use a 12 ga. with slugs and I will use a 45-70. You may go first.



You pay and I'm in.


How about the loser pays?



Define loser?
I want to buy your Berdan primed brass!
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