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Posted: 1/4/2002 7:15:28 AM EST
Very sad, just a momentary lapse of control, results in things like this. Another reason I will never own a pistol w/out a positive safety(Glock in this situation). As careful as you think you are, you make mistakes - and so do non-firearm familiar people around you. Nashville Cop Killed by Infant Son 01/04/2002 10:26 AM EST Email this Story A rookie police officer was shot to death by his 3-year-old son, who had grabbed the man's service weapon from a kitchen table. Joshua Haffner, 22, was pronounced dead early Friday after several hours of surgery at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville. He had been flown by helicopter from an airport near his home in Smyrna, about 20 miles to the southeast. The shooting occurred late Thursday, shortly after Haffner had gotten home from his shift at Nashville's South Sector Precinct, said Sgt. Ken Hampton of the Smyrna Police Department. "He was taking off his duty equipment and laid his gun on the kitchen table. Apparently while he had his back turned and was talking to his wife, their 3-year-old picked the gun up and shot him," Hampton said. He was shot once in the upper back with the Glock .40-caliber semiautomatic pistol, Hampton said. Haffner graduated from Nashville's police academy Nov. 1 and was completing his field training. "This is something he always talked about, being a police officer," Hampton said.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:24:39 AM EST
Just one more reason all handguns need a 50-lb. trigger pull. (I think I was possessed by the spirit of Imbrog|io!)
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:27:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By KBaker: (I think I was possessed by the spirit of Imbrog|io!)
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Let me give it a shot.... "If civillians didn't have guns, this would have never happened."
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:30:27 AM EST
A different Imbrog|io! slant: If his wife hadn't shot him and claimed the infant did it, then this would have never happened.z
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:31:10 AM EST
no, no, no! if their were NO guns, this never would have happened!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:31:58 AM EST
What an unfortunate accident. It will be really sad when the child gets older, and finds out that he killed is dad. But you have to be really cognizant of what is going on around you. Just like you would not leave a boiling cup of water for he kid to grab on to and scolding himself. This tragedy serves reminds us to be more aware of loaded guns. Personally I don’t think guns with a positive safety would have helped, because I think a lot of police departments carry their pistols with safety off and hammer down on a loaded chamber.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:39:56 AM EST
We had an area officer killed a few years ago by his pre-teen son in a similar type of accident. Truly saddening. Oh, and the original poster must not have any kids..that child is a toddler, not an infant. I was trying to figure out how a 1 year old could pull a trigger when I saw the thread title.....
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:54:35 AM EST
Never turn your back on your kids.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:56:56 AM EST
when i take my gun off..if im not going to put it right back on....i clear it before i set it down i have a kid....if i am goign to put i back on i put it were thwe kid cant reach it with out a chair hence getting my attention...
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:19:58 AM EST
Back in the days before i can remember -- it is said that i chased my babysitter around the inside of the house a time or two with a loaded Luger that i found under a mattress.....i've loved guns ever since......Dick
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:26:18 AM EST
Well first off this was not an infant, a 3 year old is barely still a toddler. Second what sort of an idiot would leave anything like that where a child could reach it would he leave a knife on the edge of the table or like warlord said boiling water within reach. This looks like another case of a cop having no sense of firearm safty training and paid the ultimate price for his stupidity. Anyone with a small child knows they will take anything in an instant, at three they will have seen how it is used and will try to do the same. Why was his weapon not locked into his holster if he had just taken it off.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:31:18 AM EST
Los Angeles Times: Tenn. Cop Killed by 3-Year-Old Son [url]http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-officer-killed0104jan04.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dnation%2Dheadlines[/url] Tenn. Cop Killed by 3-Year-Old Son By KARIN MILLER Associated Press Writer January 4 2002, 10:30 AM PST NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A rookie police officer was shot to death by his 3-year-old son, who had grabbed the man's service weapon from a kitchen table when the officer turned to talk to his pregnant wife. Joshua Haffner, 22, was pronounced dead early Friday after several hours of surgery at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville. He had been flown by helicopter from an airport near his home in Smyrna, about 20 miles to the southeast. The shooting occurred late Thursday, shortly after Haffner had gotten home from his shift at Nashville's South Sector Precinct, said Sgt. Ken Hampton of the Smyrna Police Department. "He was taking off his duty equipment and laid his gun on the kitchen table. Apparently while he had his back turned and was talking to his wife, their 3-year-old picked the gun up and shot him," Hampton said. Haffner was shot once in the upper back with the Glock .40-caliber semiautomatic pistol, Hampton said. Haffner graduated from Nashville's police academy Nov. 1 and was completing his field training. His wife, Amy, is eight months pregnant. "This is something he always talked about, being a police officer," said Hampton, who had known Haffner for several years. Don Aaron, spokesman for Nashville's police department, said officers-in-training take a home firearms safety course when they get their weapons. He said the shooting was a tragic accident that happened in a split second. "This officer had just gotten home. He was getting settled, and in the process took the pistol out of the holster and put it on the table. He did not leave the gun unattended; there were two adults in the kitchen," Aaron said. Copyright 2002 Associated Press
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:00:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By zoom: A different Imbrog|io! slant: If his wife hadn't shot him and claimed the infant did it, then this would have never happened.z
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Hmmmmm...wonder what the angle of entry is? Anybody bag the baby's hands? Just kidding. I guess the key here is not to leave the weapon where the toddler can get at it. We practice the NRA "Kids v. Guns" scenarios and what they are supposed to do when they find a gun all the time. The five year old girl plays to the script; she won't touch and she goes and gets an adult immediately. The 2 1/2 year old boy with the terminal case of testosterone poisoning (Gotta love that man child...he drives his female relatives crazy!) wants to pick it up every time...cause he sees Daddy and Papa with them...and he thinks guns are cool (Which they ARE.) so we have to be extra careful around him.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:04:44 AM EST
They guy leaves his duty sidearm within arms reach of a 3-year old toddler, and his dept spokesman says that he "didn't leave it unattended." He says there were "two adults in the room." Yeah, one of whom was shot. If the spokesman is making excuses (and that's exactly what he's doing), what is the rest of his dept doing?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:14:41 AM EST
Ugh. Makes you sick. And this was a LEO (again). Everyone repeat ten times... [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B] [b]THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!![/B]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:18:02 AM EST
Just to make your stomach turn... When I was about 6 years old, I watched my Dad get a blue box down from the top of the closet. He took it to the kitchen table and assembled a field stripped 1911. I watched this in great awe from beside him as he did this. About 6 months later, while being babysat, I made a stack of chairs, got the box, took it in the bathroom and assembled the gun...completely. (yes, even lining up the linkage for the slide release lever). Goes to show, nothing short of a locked up weapon is safe in the house.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:25:46 AM EST
I'm sorry to see something like this happen to someone, but the guy was 22 years old with a 3 year old child... that kind of makes me question his judgement in general. If the weapon was not being directly attended to by him, the gun was unattended! A horrible tragedy in any case.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:27:03 AM EST
I would hate to have to go to school with everyone knowing I was the youngest person ever to become a cop killer. The poor kid has a lot of life left to look forward to being dogged every minute.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:28:00 PM EST
One word! "DARWIN"
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:54:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Stronghorn: One word! "DARWIN"
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Nope. Victim had already reproduced (assuming the kid is really his).
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:56:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By warlord: Los Angeles Times: Tenn. Cop Killed by 3-Year-Old Son [url]http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-officer-killed0104jan04.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dnation%2Dheadlines[/url]
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I've got to ask: Why is this national news? Why is it so important that the LA Times covers it? (Rhetorical question, I know. It furthers the "guns are bad" agenda.)
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:01:03 PM EST
"tcsd1236: We had an area officer killed a few years ago by his pre-teen son in a similar type of accident. Truly saddening. Oh, and the original poster must not have any kids..that child is a toddler, not an infant. I was trying to figure out how a 1 year old could pull a trigger when I saw the thread title..... " TCSD, you're right, I don't have kids, but then again, I didn't come up w/ the article's title. The newspaper called the 3 yr. old an infant. Call the editor and explain it to him. Your comment to me was inane.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:28:33 PM EST
Just remember that if a 19 year old can be a child, then a 3 year old can be an infant. Jay Arizona
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:40:18 PM EST
Does anyone really think a 3 year old can pull the trigger on a Glock?????????
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:50:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By bars_full_auto: Does anyone really think a 3 year old can pull the trigger on a Glock?????????
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I know my nephew could.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:52:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By bars_full_auto: Does anyone really think a 3 year old can pull the trigger on a Glock?????????
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Yeah, I do. Jay Arizona
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:14:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:45:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By bars_full_auto: Does anyone really think a 3 year old can pull the trigger on a Glock?????????
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The wife shot him. She was pregnant, but not by him. She was feeding the toddler when he set the gun on the table. That was her opportunity. She picks up the gun and lets him have it. She frantically calls 911 and the blames the kid. In a few months, she will claim the 3yo is "tramatized" and have him put in a state paid orphanage. Then, her lover will move in and they will start spending the insurance money.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:49:19 PM EST
Does anyone know if they powder tested the kids hand? Someone may want to check on mom's address or room-mate in 6-12 months.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:50:38 PM EST
mejames beat me to it ;-)
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:57:53 PM EST
Particularly if he is on the "high" side of three. I have seen three year olds who could wield a hammer well enough to demo a gypsum board sheathed wall. So, yeah, I do believe that a three year old can operate a pistol.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:08:16 PM EST
Much as I mourn for his family...he was not killed by a three year old; he was killed by his own disregard for "going armed." God help the family.....
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:15:24 PM EST
Does anyone here have a 3yr. old son AND a Glock in 40SW????? Lets do a test, can he actually pull the trigger????? BISHOP
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:18:46 PM EST
damn that kids life is gonna be a living hell. And we can only imagine how his sibling is gonna feel about him. talk about having a rotten life. Lets just pray that he doesn't commit suicide later in life
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:24:07 PM EST
Damm That is sad....And it makes guns look bad.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:41:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By mejames: The wife shot him. She was pregnant, but not by him. She was feeding the toddler when he set the gun on the table. That was her opportunity. She picks up the gun and lets him have it. She frantically calls 911 and the blames the kid. In a few months, she will claim the 3yo is "tramatized" and have him put in a state paid orphanage. Then, her lover will move in and they will start spending the insurance money.
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You're despicable. God help their family. And you.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:55:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By bars_full_auto: Does anyone really think a 3 year old can pull the trigger on a Glock?????????
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Hard to believe but it would seem so. Very sad news.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:16:54 PM EST
Officer Haffner is a hero.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:25:59 PM EST
Extreme Oedipal complex. Mommy's all yours now, little man.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 4:39:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By BISHOP: Does anyone here have a 3yr. old son AND a Glock in 40SW????? Lets do a test, can he actually pull the trigger????? BISHOP
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Yes and I was actually considering doing that as a test. I'll let you know if he can do it!
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 7:39:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2002 7:41:30 AM EST by misterhemi]
[img]http://lewistechnogroup.com/guns/glock27L.jpg[/img] Alright, here are the results: My 3 years old son (who is a bit on the small side for his age) was unable to fully pull the trigger. The striker wasn't released. My 4 years old daughter (who is VERY big for her age) had NO difficulty pulling the trigger. This may be possible if the child in question is large in size.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 8:03:04 AM EST
Imbrolio - damn - LOL!! LOL again!!! That's a sad story. I will tell you how I trained *MY* son - he is very responsible with weapons and always has been. First of all - we had a disciplined, loving household. My son wasn't raised by new-age "be their best friend" wackos. He was raised by parental role models (myself and my mom - also by my ex-wife to a lesser extent) and later by myself and my wife I have now (I have always had custody). If my son did something wrong and he knew it was wrong - he was punished - and I'm not talking about shaking my finger at him and cooing "no, no, no". He got hiss ass warmed up. At 3yrs, I took him to an *outdoor* range and had him pull his hearing protection off while I shot a few 9mm rounds. It made an impression. Whenever I would shoot a deer or pig, my son got shown exactly what the round had done to the animal. It made an impression. I am NOT saying that firearms should be left out for children to handle willy nilly. I AM saying that loving discipline and a real, true, no bullshit education goes a long way towards "gunproofing" children. Tate
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 8:52:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tate: If my son did something wrong and he knew it was wrong - he was punished - and I'm not talking about shaking my finger at him and cooing "no, no, no". He got hiss ass warmed up.
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And today that would be called child abuse and Child Protective Services would be called.
At 3yrs, I took him to an *outdoor* range and had him pull his hearing protection off while I shot a few 9mm rounds. It made an impression.
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That, too, would be child abuse. You would go to jail when CPS was done with you.
Whenever I would shoot a deer or pig, my son got shown exactly what the round had done to the animal. It made an impression.
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Ditto. Isn't this brave new world "for the children" wonderful?
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:00:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tate: At 3yrs, I took him to an *outdoor* range and had him pull his hearing protection off while I shot a few 9mm rounds. It made an impression. Tate
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Would you cut your kid's arm just to show him that a knife is sharp? No? Then why would you PERMANENTLY damage his hearing? You may have just challenged him for speech & language development, not to mention educational barriers if the damage is severe enough. The effects may not show immediately, but I assure you that his hearing is damaged beyond repair. Way to go tough guy.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:26:58 AM EST
My 2yr old nephew, who is very small for his age, can pull the trigger on my Glock 30. He uses both hands to do this.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:31:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tate: At 3yrs, I took him to an *outdoor* range and had him pull his hearing protection off while I shot a few 9mm rounds. It made an impression. Whenever I would shoot a deer or pig, my son got shown exactly what the round had done to the animal. It made an impression. Tate
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This might actually turn him into an anti. I can see it now...
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:32:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By warlord: "This officer had just gotten home. He was getting settled, and in the process took the pistol out of the holster and put it on the table. He did not leave the gun unattended; there were two adults in the kitchen," Aaron said. Copyright 2002 Associated Press
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this must be the Bill Clinton definition of unattended. He had a loaded weapon in reach of a 3 year old, and his back to the kid. I'm sorry the officer died, but it is the result of his own irresponsibility. AIRBORNE
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 2:51:59 PM EST
Let's see,, A man is shot 40 times in NYC because the cops can't tell a wallet from a gun. A security guard shoots himself in the ass in California. A cop who does not use his head and leaves his gun on the table, gets shot in the back by his son. And these are the ones were suppose to trust with firearms. OK!!!
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 4:53:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2002 4:54:57 PM EST by davidkxx]
Ever notice that everytime a cop has an accident it is because he ignored the very basics of gun safety? What is it with these morons?... a god complex? They can't get hurt??? (When I say 'morons' I don't mean cops, I mean stupid people that ignore firearm safety)
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 6:46:12 PM EST
I read an article once entitled "Do you know where your gun is?" Ever since, I have always made sure that I knew. From time to time, I will forget that I left it on the kitchen table, or on the couch. But when I realize that I have misplaced it, I drop everything and go get it. Ideally one would *never* forget where his/her gun is. But after carrying a weapon for a while, it is actually easy to do. Having children in the house makes it immeasurably more important that we always know where we put the gun. NEVER leave the weapon where anyone can get to it. It's just common sense. Unfortuately this young fellow wasn't as aware as he should have been. Prayers for him, his wife and their children. Such an innocent incident has led to unbelievable consequences. ARnSC
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 7:03:39 PM EST
Poor judgment flying all around this one. -A 22yr old with a 3yr old son. -Placing a loaded gun on the kitchen table. -Placing a loaded gun on the kitchen table in front of a 3yr old. This was an accident in waiting for many years. Sorry, but there are too many fools in this world. And this officer was one of them. I hate this man for what he has done to his son.
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