Praschat minya, ti strany muschina. Ti nyet panimat langwige nye chilovek mir, ti nye intelligentsia! Ti idiooat! Kak ti panimat mir eevent? Kak ti panimat moi? Ti dum fukers!

Ditto. Couldn't agree more.
Why is this even a f*ckin' debate?!?

First flight boarding all foreign misfits now seating rows one through 15...get on the god damn plane you friggin jack off.

That certainly is an Americanist view of things and I'm sure those principles are coming from the heart as he invokes patriotism as the standard for living in america. Nothing wrong with that. However, one can't forget this country was founded on the principle on tolerance (i.e., religious freedom and tolerance) and tolerance must extend to those immigrants who may take several years to assimilate and learn a difficult language and/or adapt to Christian values.

How can one know what is in an immigrants heart just because he still speaks his language or clings to different religious beliefs? He may be assimilating as fast as he can.

Give him a break!

The attitudes of some of the people who post here are ridicules. How can having a multilingual and multicultural society be a good thing, it only serves to keep people separated. Every nation needs one language to conduct business with. And one last thing before I hit the hay. Does anyone remember the biblical story of the Tower of Babel, every one once spoke the same language, until God got ticked off at them and caused them to all speak different languages.

Sorry for this not being up to my usual standards but I am too tired and need some rest.   Good night all

I really don't care what language people speak as lomg as they can read and write English. I should not have to adjust for them. If they are living here, they sure as hell better learn the language and show a little respect for the natives and our culture.

My Mexican gardner, who my neighbor says has been working the area for 15 years, still puts trash in the garden waste can and garden waste in the trash can because he cannot read the decals on the cans that say "trash only" and "garden waste only" in English. Hence the threaf I started a few weeks ago asking for a translation in Spanish.

Anyone who has been here for 15 years and doesn't have even a basic understanding of the language is just a lazy ass.

Gun Guru:

How many successful Spanish-speaking countries are there in the world?  The language of international business is.... wait for it..... ENGLISH!!  It's a disservice to children to not FORCE them to speak the only language that will allow them to succeed in the modern world.  In the near future, perhaps within our lifetime English will become the universal language of humanity.  Teaching kids the language of the future now is the only way for them to succeed.  Making things easy for the new immigrants because they didn't have English at home just fucks them over.

What about the languages of all the other people who come here?  Should we learn all of the hundred some dialects of Hindi?  Should we all learn Chinese, or Korean, or Vietnamese?  When this nation was flooded with non-English-speaking immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe Americans didn't get all warm and fuzzy to them by making this country "bilingual."  Hispanics are a minority, just like every other immigrant group.  I'm not going to cater to them just because they don't want to learn my language.  I don't view this as a racial issue, I view it as a language issue.  I don't go to their house and make them speak English to suit me, and I'm damn well not going to learn Spanish (or any other language) to suit them.  This is MY house, do things MY way or fucking leave!  Get it?

I'm afraid America is no longer what it used to be.It's not the same country our ancestors fought for.It's now just a country that will allow anyone from all countries to live here, legally or illegally and let them enjoy our present freedom.This allows them to badmouth America and wave their home country's flag because they have freedom of speech now.America is going to be just one big country with everyone speaking a different language.Perhaps sign language should be America's new universal language.

The browning of America will be it's destruction.  Immigrants (legal) have two choices, adopt AMerican language and culture or leave.  They may certainly keep their heritage but need to adopt enough of our ways to get along.  Otherwise they are only here to destroy or take rather than contribute to the whole.

Illegal immigrants are nothing more than common crimminals and should be treated as such.  Round 'em up and ship them out.  Use the military to close the Mexican border - with orders to shoot to kill anything that moves headed north.

I refuse to learn ANY language other than English.  I have friends who are immigrants and struggle with English.  Those I have no problem with because they do not ask for special treatment due to their limitation.  I enjoy their culture when they share it with me.  They do not try and MAKE me accept it so we get along just fine.

Our population is way too large now so the only immigrants we should admit are those who will make a significant contribution to America.  The others need to fix their failed culture!

Isn't Cinco de Mayo already a national holiday?

Do bigots have a holiday or do they just rain on other peoples' parades?

Yea, I celebrate holidays!  July 4 happens to be one of my favorites.  Anybody want to celebrate sinko de mayo or similar crap go to mexico!!

No, but it's easy to call somebody who expects immigrants to live up to the same standards everyone else is forced to meet a bigot, isn't it?  If millions of white folk started popping across the border, flying to India, China, Vietnam, and whereever else the recent flood is coming from, would we be able to get away with not speaking the local language?  Would the local socialists guilt-trip everybody into getting warm and fuzzy with us because we're poor, pathetic immigrants?  Would those who resisted having [b]their[/b] culture destroyed and language forgotten be called bigots by immigrant-coddling dingleberries?  I seriously doubt those things would happen in reverse.

MY house, MY rules, don't like it, get the fuck out.

You hit it on the head, redmanfms!!!  Disagreeing with the homogenization of society and an unwillingness to pander to the lowest common denominator of the "unwilling immigrant" will, as has aptly been demonstrated, certainly get you labeled a bigot.  Oh well, if that's what gets the label hung on me, I'll wear it well.

My dad spoke Spain-ish at home till he was 5 years old, but my Spain-ish relatives embraced English as their language. I'm proud of the various ethnic genes, but in America English is and should continue to be the language spoken by all. I'm not suggesting that it(English) should be the only language spoken, but when it comes to everyday situations I should not have to learn how to speak another language in order to deal with the lazy people out there who refuse to learn how to speakee English.

Oh, give me a break!

There's no problem with St. Patricks day because they (the Irish) are white and they speak english. (Although they sound different.)

And, the Jews are allowed to have their holidays here in the USA as long as they don't speak Yiddish?

You go to Chinese restaurants, and most of the help speak little english. Same with Mexican restaurants.

Where's the tolerance that this country was founded on?

Could you translate this, please? Sorry, I'm an American, sitting here in America, & by jingo, I only speak English!(high school German notwithstanding).

Oh how mistaken you are.

This country was not founded on the idea of tolerance.  It was founded on inalienable individual rights, not the idea of kissing ass to every little group that hops off a boat to make them feel less dejected.  Tolerance doesn't mean we have to embrace and celebrate every damn thing they do, it doesn't even mean we have to like what they do; tolerance means we put up with it in the interest of harmony.  It's like, if you don't fuck with my shit I won't fuck with your shit.  But that is beside the point.  Why should we be forced to cater to recent arrivals?  Why should I learn to speak a dozen different languages just because the people coming to MY house can't speak MY language?

I have no problem with Hispanic or Chinese holidays being celebrated, but did we make every German, Italian, Irish, or Scottish holiday a national day off?  I don't think we did.  St. Patty's day is celebrated but isn't officially recognized by most localities and states as a "legitimate" holiday, i.e. a day off.  If the Hispanics want to celebrate the Day of the Dead, they can go right ahead.  When they start waving Mexican flags and singing the Mexican national anthem there will be some problems though.

Bzzt. Wrong.

Punkatomic, show me the word "tolerance" or ANY synonym thereof in the Magna Carta, Declaration of Independance, Federalist Papers, or U.S. Constitution.  

Freedom =/= tolerance.
Exercising my freedom requires NOTHING from YOU.
Forcing me to become "tolerant" of you DOES require ME to do something on your behalf.

You can be "free" without me being involved, however, but you can not be "tolerated" unless I am forced to acquiesce and give up my right to resist/protest...

Therefore, tolerance=domination

You show your true colors when you say [i]"...tolerance [b]must[/b] extend to those immigrants..."[/i]

[b]Must?![/b] Or what?  




Au contraire!  This immigrant shows he is not trying to assimilate, rather he is trying to redefine and dominate.

He reveals his heart when he votes for [b]mandatory[/b] bilingual education of MY children.  

He reveals his heart when he votes to [b]force[/b] ALL gov't documents to be printed in Spanish so HE can read them.

He reveals his heart when he votes to [b]force[/b] our country's landmarks ("Squaw Peak...) to be renamed so HE won't be offended. (even though "squaw" isn't even Spanish).

He reveals his heart when he votes to [b]force[/b] City Council meetings be conducted in Spanish.

He reveals his heart when he votes to [b]force[/b] Gov' t welfare for his illegal immigrant compadres.

He reveals his heart when he votes to [b]force[/b] Gov't to set aside money for advancement of HIS culture (Hispanic Heritage promotions, scholarships, etc.)


And you call THIS assimilation?

What bother my american friends is the fact that immigrating people is forcing to change a culture, based on the english language, because the not-english minority has became a important huge minority in certain places.

I can understand my friends.

Let's take a multilingual country: Switzerland. In this country three languages are spoken: Italian, French and German. If you want to became a citizien you must handle minimum of two of them. The roots of the Swiss multilingual society deepen back in the FREE WILL of different people living in the Cantoni to join toghether and became one nation.
This is something in the USA situation: immigrating people MUST learn language and culture of the country where they want to immigrate. This is respect.
Let's take two situation I know better: Italy and Israel.

In Italy you can get a working visa even if you don't speak one word of Italian. But the govt. gives the chance to attend free Italian schools for foreigners. However,laws are issued in Italian, and only in special regions, like Alto-Adige or Val D'aosta (at the border with Austria the former, and with France the latter) it is allowed to issue REGIONAL laws in other language. Anyway, is mandatory that ITALIAN should be the FIRST language used also in these regions. For the Italians speaking people that are living there it is mandatory to learn also the local language (German or French).
In Israel, the trend is to give freedom of immigration if you are a Jew, but no more the automatic CITIZIENSHIP. Even if you are a Jew, a minimum of period of residence is required, as will be required to speak Hebrew and know history of the country. This because you must feel part of the country to deserve the citizienship. And this is correct, whatever the politically correct people can say. I don't want to see, anymore, cases like in France, where your native language is forbidden: in Bretagne, that is part of France, inhabitants were forbidden for long time to speak their own language, but they could speak only French.

I think that with this "elighted" people that make efforts thinking PC, the brain has been reset: too much effort, and the PCness put other people in the condition to be harassed: US.

Yes, this country was founded on the principle of religious freedom and tolerance as well as our property rights and individual civil rights which are a result of the Lockean philosopy of mental and material substances that were well understood by Jefferson who authored the Declaration of Independence.

Go read some history.

The title of this thread is "Immigrants, not Americans, must adapt" and that is true. I know I have no plans to learn Spanish but learning a new language would not diminish who I am, it would make me better. Just because their assimilation is not happening according to your standards doesn't make you right. Assimilation is a process, how long for you to learn a second language, a new culture?

Sure, there are immigrants who probably do and say things that indicate they want to adhere to their old ways and expect the world to cater to them and resist change. Don't listen to them, they are as wrong as those who say things like "My house, my rules". Fact is, nobody wants to be in your house, and you don't own the street.

So, punkatomic, I'm still waiting for your references to "tolerance" (as opposed to "freedom") found in the Declaration of Independance or U.S. Constitution.  

Enlighten me!




So, you have no plans to become better!? [;)]

YOU may have no plans to learn Spanish, but your children will be [b]forced[/b] to.  And you call THAT "tolerance"?




Bzzt. And once again, you are wrong.

You say [i]"there are immigrants who... expect the world to cater to them and resist change. Don't listen to them. They are as wrong..."[/i]

But they will not be ignored!  They CHANGE public policy for THEIR ends. Did you see my list of how they're changing society for THEIR ends rather than assimilating?  Please comment on how "tolerant" these immigrants are towards OUR culture?  Or would that be bigotted?

You misrepresent the subject of the ire displayed in the previous posts. Yes, assimilation does take time, and we respect that. HOWEVER, when you have the 2nd and 3rdgeneration descendants of immigrants, and nary an English speaker among the lot, then it is safe to state that these people have zero interest in assimilating to our culture. It took me two years to learn barely passable german. Another three of consistent study and I would have been very comfortable with it. So to say that people having been in this country 10-15 years who still have no grasp of the English language beyond Arnie-inflected expletives are merely having trouble 'assimilating' doesn't hold.



Were it that easy, then I would be fine. If it was something that did not effect me, that would be fine. But it does. When these people can't be bothered to teach their children english, what happens? MY TAX DOLLARS get funneled for 'bilingual education'. Fuck, the fact that they tried to LEGISLATE EBONICS IN SCHOOL says something's fucked up here. What happens when Joe Schmeg comes in to collect his unemployment or welfare, but he can't read the form because it's not in Schmukanese? MY TAX DOLLARS get funneled to provide translators, interpreters, and documents in foreign languages. Most of all, however, is that many of these bilingual services are being used by NON-CITIZENS. People who are not citizens, nor are they undertaking the process to become naturalized. I have two words....FUCK THEM. This is the land of the FREE, not the FREELOADERS.

You are very mistaken.  It was [i]freedom[/i] of religion that the Founders protected, they didn't have any aspirations of inspiring "tolerance," nor were they even attempting to do that.  Individual freedom of religious belief is a far cry from legislating the idea of "tolerance."  The Bill of Rights only states that people have the right to worship as they see fit, not that other people have to like, accept, or even "tolerate" what they do.  Tolerance is never once mentioned by Locke, or Jefferson, so your theory that "tolerance" was the basis of the foundation of this country is bullshit.

I can dislike, despise, or refuse to tolerate whatever the fuck I want, that is called freedom you jackass.  I highly recommend you look that little word up in your history book.

Basically what punk has been saying all along is that we have to "tolerate" the destruction of our culture, language, and nation because that is principle on which this country was founded.

Sorry bud, I'm not falling for your socialism inspired "tolerance" rant.  You don't like the vibes of intolerance towards people who refuse to meet MY standards in MY house, hop back on the boat and go to a more enlightened nation.

Language is at the very heart of culture, as any of my former grad school leftie socialists will correctly point out. I am all for people speaking multiple languages. It is good for you, opens your mind, and lets you interact with people in different ways.

But for god's sake, you have to have everyone speaking at least ONE language together. In America, that is English. I say speak whatever you want, but speak English first.

As far as the browning and the changing political culture of America goes... I think that has more to do with the fact that most poor immigrants come from countries lacking the Anglo American political traditions that represent the best of Western civilization. As such, they water it down, weakening it, and making people vote Democrat. [;-)] I know plenty of successful immigrants from the most impoverished, lice-ridden snakepits. Every one of them learned English and busted their humps. Now they are business owners.

All the ones who just come here to raise their eleven children by suckling at the government teat for generations... do us a favor and just stay home. You aren't wanted, you aren't needed. Except by the Democrats. [peep]

The_Macallan,

Boy, you are a difficult one, aren't you?

What you seek from me to tell you can be found if you look. Try the First Amendment for the religious tolerance, Also re-read the Declaration of Independence (I'm not going to quote it for you, but it's around the ninth paragraph concerning Naturalization of Foreigners)

If your looking for a literal, written in stone, customized for your sensibilities, document or sentence that says exactly what you want it to say then I doubt anybody can provide something to please you.

As far as confusing freedom of religion with religious tolerance goes then that's up to the individual to determine the difference.

I just hope you guys look up the historical documents you cry about and try to read them with a open, intelligent mind and quit the bullshit name calling. It really shows how intolerant and anti-freedom you are!

Oh, and the crack about being socialist, you are just throwing things out there hoping they'll stick. You don't have a clue!

The new brown world can kiss my butt!
Are you nuts?
Anybody can come to America and make a better life for them selves,but you mean to tell me you want more!

It is not my job to make other poeple's lives more easy.
Keep up or go away.


BTW:WE! the great great great great grandsons of the very people who risked there lives to come here(no,there was no bus to take at that time)did not have it so easy and nor should other new comers.

I keep going back and re-reading those posts about freedom vs. tolerance and what I find is that it's OK for you to have your religion and someone else to have theirs and nobody can make you tolerate the other. Well, tolerance means keeping your thoughts about the other to yourself. When you engage in rhetoric that blasts the other and says the other is making you have to live with the others ways and their culture or religion that you can't stand then you are the antagonist interfering with their freedom, aren't you. Better keep your mouth shut and let people live the way the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence expressed the idea of freedom to be.

Punkatomic, I never called you "socialist". Get your name-callers straight. [;)]


From 1st Amendment:
[i]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. [/i]

Sorry, nothing about "tolerance" or "acceptance" here!  
FYI, the Bill of Rights is NOT directed at individuals, rather it is directed at Gov't.  It protects against Gov't power, not against personal "intolerance". It does not dictate [b]tolerance[/b] on MY part, rather it protects against Gov't authority in [b]forcing[/b] me to become tolerant to that with which I choose to not agree.  

"Freedom" does not equal "tolerance".  
If you don't understand that, then the U.S.Constitition is beyond your understanding.

So, punkatomic, WRONG AGAIN!



From Declaration of Independance:
[i]He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose
 obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to
 encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of
 Lands. [/i]
So the King obstructed existing Naturalization Laws to prevent more British subjects from emigrating to the colonies.
Not very appropriate to this particular discussion...


but, punkatomic, did you read continue on to read this:

Also from Declaration of Independance:
[i]He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on
 the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of
 warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. [/i]

Hmmm, so our FF didn't like the fact that the King was forcing them to be [b]tolerant[/b] of their new Indian inhabitants who were hell bent on destroying them!?


[i]punkatomic: As far as confusing freedom of religion with religious tolerance goes [b]then that's up to the individual to determine the difference.[/b] [/i]

huh???
Sorry, the politics of meaning went out with the Klintons.

If you believe "Freedom To"="Forced Tolerance Of", then our discussion is pointless.

[b]Well then tolerate ME and shut the hell up![/b]


If I post something here, don't you dare be so intolerant of me so as to disagree!

If I want to force your children to learn about MY ideas, then you had just better put duct tape over your mouth and TOLERATE it!  

If we have Spanish-only election ballots, you had damn well better be TOLERANT of it.

If a cop reads you the Miranda rights in Swahili, don't you DARE be so INTOLERANT to ask for English version.  LEARN SWAHILI YOU INTOLERANT BIGOT!


There, all better. [:)]

Ho Ho, aren't you the big man.  When YOU think that I need to learn Spanish to "tolerate" the recent arrivals YOU are impressing YOUR will on others.  As I stated, tolerance doesn't have a God-damned thing to do with the freedoms protected by the BOR.  You have yet to prove that "tolerance" has anything to do with the teachings of the Founders.

If your idea of people living "the way the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence expressed the idea of freedom to be" means that they can irrevocably change MY home by forcing ME to cater to their inadequacies you have some serious issues that need resolving.

Besides the fact that the Constitution, BOR, and the DOI never said anything about tolerance, they only apply to governmental application of law.  Meaning the government cannot pass a law that prohibits one from exercising the enumerated and unenumerated rights protected by the BOR.  Of course, restrictions are made.  For instance, Satanists cannot sacrifice humans in their rituals, even though long-held Satanistic tradition includes human sacrifice as part of the Sabbat.  The Sabbat itself is a parody of the Christian rite of Communion, which flies in the face of the "tolerance" you hold so dear.

But rights to expression of opinion and religion have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  We should not be forced to "tolerate" new arrivals by learning their language because they can't speak English.  They have a problem THEY need to fix.  You are a liberal in everything but name punk.  Your ideas of tolerance are the very same that liberals use to push the liberalization of social standards in the pursuit of zero personal culpability.

The bottom line here is punk; if you don't speak MY language in MY house, and you don't want to learn MY language, you need to leave MY house.

I don't give a rat's ass what these people celebrate, speak (at home), eat, or even wear, but they damn well restructure their habits to assimilate MY culture.  The people that you would have us "tolerate" seek to create little Mexicos, Indias, Chinas, Vietnams, etc.  They do not wish to become American, only take what we have to offer.  That is intolerable.  I'm not the government, I don't have to tolerate the actions of unAmerican immigrants in the spirit of misguided "tolerance" and I won't.

You have expressed it much better than I, Redmanfms, thank you!!

Like I have said before, if their culture was so good, why did they leave?

Well said....I couldn't agree more. It absolutely amazes me that people who move here, mostly spanish speaking, insist that spanish be made available to them in every format possible. To think that asking them to learn english amounts to racism or bigotry is beyond rediculous.

I can't possibly imagine moving to a country which spoke a language different than english and getting pissed off that they don't bend over backwards to provide me with the luxury of not having to make any effort to actually learn the language of that country. I've traveled all over the world, and even for short stays I've done everything I can to speak, though modestly, in their native language. It's a respect for the culture and for the people who live there. If you're planning to move to America, show some basic respect for the country and learn english for christ sake.

I have a very good idea why don’t we all just speak our native languages then we can be like the episode of the I love Lucy show where one person spoke German and French and one person spoke German and Spanish and one person, Ricky Ricardo, spoke Spanish and English and it was very funny watching them all translate some questions and answers from French to English and back to French again. This was a comedy skit but isn’t this what some of you seem to want for real. Know I would like to learn some foreign languages but why should one of them have to be Spanish. I am of English and Portuguese descent so I would like to learn Portuguese and Physics research papers are sometimes written in German or Russian so I learn German and Russian but why should I have to learn Spanish just to communicate with people in my own country.

A common Language and Culture is what keeps a nation together and enables it to function as a cohesive entity. When people consider themselves to be Mexicans Etc first and Americans second or even last then “we” meaning all us true Americans and our Country, are in real trouble.

To put this in simple terms for Mr. Punk atomic plus others who think as he does, if the United States were to get into a war with Mexico just how many of the Mexicans living in the United States would fight on the side of the United States and how many would fight on the side of Mexico. My personal belief is that most of the Mexicans living here would fight on the side of Mexico. And this is especially true of the Mexicans who have moved here during the last 20 - 30 years. I believe that most of the people who have lived here for generations are real Americans and will fight on the side of the United States but only a war will tell for sure.  

VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)

Seems everybody disagrees with me, few here have understood what tolerance is and how it relates to freedom, but leave that for another day.

The anger and hatred towards Mexicans is apparently alive and well here at these forums because of a fear of some of them who are lowest on the socio-economic scale and who refuse to assimilate to your satisfaction. They shall suffer their own fate and not participate in the economic opportunities that they would if they were educated and spoke english. I don't worry about them.

I don't claim to know much, I've read a few things and learned a little. Some of the books and literature I've read like Common Sense by Thomas Paine, The Federalist, Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, John Locke, Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence, Voltaire, Bentham, Emerson, Thoureau, and many others, nowhere have I read the vitriolic rhetoric that's been expressed here over the subject of human rights, immigration, language, culture, freedom, and tolerance.  

I know you guys can believe what you want and don't want anybody telling you what to do. That's fine. It's your interpretation of freedom and it works for you. You must know that after your long rant over this issue there's still alot of things wrong with america like the drug addicts, the welfare recipients, the thiefs, the sexually deviant, and all the other slackers in society. If you feel this strongly about what is right then this human detritus ought to concern you as well. Maybe you can find something by the Founding Fathers to prove your point as well. I'd be impressed if you did.

I'm finished with this thread.

Actually punk, you are the one who doesn't understand tolerance.  Look up the word.  Nobody here said anything about hating anybody, we just feel that if one is going to come to this country they need to speak the language.  I don't hate Mexicans and I never said I did, but I refuse to change my habits to suit them.  This is MY country, not their's.  They need to learn MY language.  

I don't see what is vitriolic about anything that I've said.  I don't agree with those who are talking about the browning of the nation, because I believe that immigrants do add something to the culture and bring fresh ideas and manpower, but the racial mixture of the people immigrating was not an issue of mine and hasn't been mentioned in this thread for 2 days.  

I demand that people adapt to meet the expectations of MY country, not change them to suit their own abilities.  Can't speak any English?  Fine, no job for you.  Not only will you not have a job, but we aren't going to do anything in your language.  

What pisses me off, and apparently a lot of other people, is that these people come here and [b]bitch[/b] that we don't kiss their asses.  They sue if anybody attempts to do something that doesn't have a half dozen language translations.  They cry racism (which isn't even the fucking issue) if we tell them that they need to learn OUR language in OUR house.  Catering to fucking foreigners who are making no attempt to "melt" into our society and just wish to remain foreign while reaping the benefits that WE worked for is not "tolerance" dipshit.  It's fucking servitude.  If you want to live that way Mr. punk(socialist)atomic go right ahead, but don't tell us that we have to cater to the whims of these fucking people out of "tolerance;" a word that you don't even understand.



Those people anger me too, as they anger everybody else on this board.  I've seen numerous threads that bitch about these types.  But that isn't the fucking issue here numbnuts.  We are talking about fresh arrivals who not only slack (in the sense that they don't want to assimilate), but expect us to change for them.  



We don't need to prove[i]our[/i] point dipshit.  You need to prove your point.  Freedom doesn't have a God-damned thing to do with "tolerance;" that's why it isn't mentioned anywhere in any of the writings of the authors you mentioned.  Simply mentioning the name of a great author and extrapilating from his writing without any evidence to back up your interpretation is pretty fucking weak dude.  You mentioned the OH-Holy, so fucking what?  Apparently the fact that you read those writings makes you think you somehow have exclusive knowledge.  Reality check dude, anybody who graduated from high school had to read those books and pamphlets.

Run away punk.  People actually expect you to have some kind of logical support for the claims you make in this debate.  You can't give us any citations to prove that your freedom writers had "tolerance" as you define it on their minds.  You can't give any evidence that making this country bi- or tri-lingual will make everything warm and fuzzy.  You can't show why the people who have been here for generations must change THEIR habits and language to monkey-up to the recent arrivals.  

Judging from your arguing tactics you are most definetly a socialist.  They (socialists) scream and moan about "tolerance" and try to suck the thoughts of the Founders into their delusions and then run away when people ask them some serious fucking questions.  

Don't fault punkatomic - not his fault - he's from Kali and some residents out there think differently than I.  Some of these people curse my father-in-law when he goes on left-coast business trips and they find out he's from Texas.  Don't you know that Texans are mean-spirited because they won't give the folks in Kalifornistan free electricity.

Tate

Ahh, the soothing balm of denial!

We troglodytes don't understand "tolerance" but punkomatic does because he's so well-read ([b]though he provides NO actual references to support his position from the works he states - only the title & author[/b])

I have provided a few samples of the very works punkatomic cites that REFUTE him but he sticks his head in the sand and hides.

Punkatomic, start with the dictionary and learn the definition of "freedom" and "tolerance".

When you get out of high school, come back and we'll try to advance you up to the level of intelligent dialogue, rather than simply citing titles and names.

(I should have known you couldn't support your position when you couldn't even define your terms correctly)

I certainly can't add anything to the posts by The_Macallan, Sniper_762x51, Spearweasel and [u]especially[/u] Redmanfms. Bullseyes all the way around this subject.

This thread has pretty much run its course, and it's been a while since someone took an intellectual spanking like punkatomic. An unbelievable display of the continual confusion of freedom & some sort of mythical tolerance we all must have for each of 97 different languages spoken.

By the way punkatomic, I think you should go on a 1 man crusade and from here on out type every post of yours in spanish. That way all the members of this board can immediately sign up for spanish classes so we can continue to read your wisdom.[whacko]

I am not a socialist or any of the other things I've been called here. That's pretty juvenile behavior on your part (you know who you are, re-read your posts. You don't know me and you generalize based on the fact I offered something different to the way you stubbornly think. I have much more respect for you people than you do for me. (Again, re-read your vitriolic rants.)

I'm not going to provide references or quotes to some of the more enlightening information I alluded to. Your attitudes are not worth my time, nor do I want to change them. We've dominated this discussion so far and little has been accomplished.

You guys should try learning tolerance and RESPECT, obviously you're lacking.

See you in other discussions, or not!

Punkatomic,
Time and time again I've tried to engage you in a DIALOGUE (look it up) where we exchange ideas and our underlying reasoning behind them.  

I've repeatedly challenged your mistaken and unsupported statements to which you've replied with obfuscation, misdirection, denial and self-contradiction.

I've been told to, in your words, [b]"keep your mouth shut"[/b] and told that to be "tolerant" means, in your own words, [b]"keeping your thoughts about the other to yourself".[/b]  Such statements are ridiculous, and hence, invite ridicule.

When you start providing a serious defense of your statements about "tolerance" vs "freedom", we may begin to reply with serious responses.  In the mean time, all we can do is chuckle at the nonsense you espouse. Keep it coming, it's entertaining if nothing else.

Yikes.....that(again) pretty much summed it up.

Next subject..."Can we get rid of those pesky 13 stripes and 50 stars on that ugly flag of ours, and somehow get a Meximerican hybrid version?"