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Posted: 1/3/2002 6:38:39 PM EDT
Apparently, Pastor Jack Brock and his sheeple, were persuaded to burn the Harry Potter books in a "holy bonfire" in Almoragoro NM – almost 2002 AD!
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:15:45 PM EDT
almost 2002 AD!
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..cough....you wouldn't know it by reading this board.....
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:20:39 PM EDT
Let me see, are they burning books they've stolen from a Jewish library, like the Nazis, or are they burning books that have been bought and paid for, either by themselves or by willing participants? If the books belong to them, they have every right to burn them, for whatever reason they desire! Hell, they don't even have to have a reason! It's a fine mess we've come to in this country, when you can burn the flag without much ado, but if you burn a book that you disagree with, now you're a friggin Nazi! Eric The(HelpUsLord)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:27:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Eric The(HelpUsLord)Hun[>]:)]
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Eric, even Huns are not required to defend the indefensible.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:39:27 PM EDT
If the books belong to them, they have every right to burn them, for whatever reason they desire! Hell, they don't even have to have a reason!
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I agree, I just think they're morons for doing it and making a public spectacle of it.
It's a fine mess we've come to in this country, when you can burn the flag without much ado, but if you burn a book that you disagree with, now you're a friggin Nazi!
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No one ever said they were Nazis, what thread are you reading? I think the implication is that they were backwards. Much like blowing up statues of Buddha, or destroying artwork because it has drawings of people or animals on it. Just plain old stupid, not evil. I've never seen an actual flag burning but based on the histrionics of our legislators attempting to pass laws forbidding it, I think your statement that "...you can burn the flag without much ado..." is total bull dung. I also think flag burning equally stupid and often done solely for the public spectacle involved. Much like book burning, eh?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:44:28 PM EDT
Wait just a minute, when did we ever [u]agree[/u] that folks couldn't do whatever they want to with their own property? It may be stupid, it may be indefensible, but it's perfectly legal! Eric The(SoWhatElseIsNew?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:50:11 PM EDT
Wait just a minute, when did we ever agree that folks couldn't do whatever they want to with their own property?
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We [u]didn't[/u] agree that folks couldn't do whatever they want to with their own property.
It may be stupid, it may be indefensible, but it's perfectly legal!
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When did I ever [u]disagree[/u] that it wasn't?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:54:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: ... it's perfectly legal! Eric The(SoWhatElseIsNew?)Hun[>]:)]
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"Perfectly legal" is perfectly defensable. [smoke]
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Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:54:38 PM EDT
Eric, I think you are muddying the waters. Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart or ethical.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:56:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart or ethical.
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No, but it does make it defensable. [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:33:02 PM EDT
There might be more twixt legal brief and court ruling than you have ever dreamt on Eric!
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:37:20 PM EDT
".....You can burn the flag without much ado...."? Not around here.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:04:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 9:06:59 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
"morons"? "stupid"? "indefensible"? Wow! What ever happened to freedom of expression? Are we Amerika now? So these people show their distaste for Harry Potter by burning a few books as a DEMONSTRATION of their feelings. Why all the criticism of that? Would you have criticized them if they had burned a copy of "The Man From Hope", "It Takes A Village", pamphlets from Sarah Brady's HCI or Osama-in-effigy? It's just a form of expression - Geez, [b]Lighten up people![/b] [whacko]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:14:54 PM EDT
Hey, I just call 'em like I see 'em.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:30:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 9:33:38 PM EDT by stcyr]
So; Macallan, I can, with your blessing, go and publically burn a bunch of Bibles to protest that its defence and propagation has led to more bloodshed than probably any other publication – Right?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:38:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stcyr: So, Macallan, i can, with your blessing, go publically burn a bunch of Bibles in protest – Right?
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As long as you buy them yourself - sure, but not with my blessing. And don't use tax money to buy the matches either! (unless you're calling it "art" [;)]) P.S. Comparing Harry Potter to The Bible? Yikes! Sounds like another loooong thread to me. [:)]
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 10:28:22 PM EDT
Okay Macallan! It may not seem like it but I respect your views. Let's just agree that we simply don't see the world the same way.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 10:32:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 11:01:11 PM EDT
But if you don't make the effort, you may never get any tail at all!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:07:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:47:36 AM EDT
Been there, done that years and years ago!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:41:52 AM EDT
I got into this discussion on another board yesterday. Rather than retyping all of my thoughts...here's the link: [url]http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/cgi-bin/fff/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000943&counterhit=yes[/url]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:52:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: it may be indefensible, Eric The(SoWhatElseIsNew?)Hun[>]:)]
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Who said they needed a defense for their actions?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 4:27:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: LOL, you guys remind me of a dog chasing his tail. Around and around and around . . . ad infinitum.
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BK1, I think the proper term here is "ad nauseum"... Don Out
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 4:37:50 AM EDT
I once burned a match book. Was that bad???
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:37:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: I once burned a match book. Was that bad???
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I do not know, "burn" any threads lately?[;)] -Velveeta
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:41:21 AM EDT
What's the point of burning books? First, when you buy the books, you're putting money in the pockets of the very people whose ideas offend you. And then, when you have a public bonfire, far fewer observers will think "Those books must be bad" than will think "Those people must be idiots". Book burners look foolish because they appear to be resorting to attacks on inanimate objects as a substitute for being able to attack their real enemy, the ideas the books contain.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:44:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: What's the point of burning books? First, when you buy the books, you're putting money in the pockets of the very people whose ideas offend you. And then, when you have a public bonfire, far fewer observers will think "Those books must be bad" than will think "Those people must be idiots". Book burners look foolish because they appear to be resorting to attacks on inanimate objects as a substitute for being able to attack their real enemy, the ideas the books contain.
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Very well said, Renamed. I think the book burners buy the old line about "any publicity" being "good publicity."
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:46:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: I once burned a match book. Was that bad???
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YES, this burning could be potentially serious stuff. Especially if you used that burning match book to burn a "Large (Over 200 response) Religious Thread!" Don't suppose you've seen that thread around anywhere ?? [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:55:24 AM EDT
Whether or not one is burning one's own books, there is always a sinister implication of intent to control what others read. Or maybe it's "look ma, my IQ's lower than Buddy the dog". I never did understand those thumb sucking idiots. Falwell fodder.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:14:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: .. "look ma, my IQ's lower than Buddy the dog".
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marvl, Now Buddy was a pretty smart dude. (Although I do hear he didn't read much.) I'm telling you his untimely death was a "professional" hit ! [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:34:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: Whether or not one is burning one's own books, there is always a sinister implication of intent to control what others read.
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Even if it's [u]MY[/u] children who's reading I am controlling?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:37:20 AM EDT
AAAAAAHHHHHH!!! fiction!!!!! run! run away! terrible, horrible, life-threatening fiction!!!!! [rolleyes] what are they afraid of? that reading fiction could lead to dancing???
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:41:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fatty: AAAAAAHHHHHH!!! fiction!!!!! run! run away! terrible, horrible, life-threatening fiction!!!!! [rolleyes] what are they afraid of? that reading fiction could lead to dancing???
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[b]WTF[/b] is your big issue with it? Did they take the books from [u]your[/u] children and burn them? You're heading straight down the path to "I'm qualified to tell your children what they can read and you're not." Hillary must be a big fan of yours.....
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:49:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By a3kid:
Originally Posted By fatty: AAAAAAHHHHHH!!! fiction!!!!! run! run away! terrible, horrible, life-threatening fiction!!!!! [rolleyes] what are they afraid of? that reading fiction could lead to dancing???
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[b]WTF[/b] is your big issue with it? Did they take the books from [u]your[/u] children and burn them? You're heading straight down the path to "I'm qualified to tell your children what they can read and you're not." Hillary must be a big fan of yours.....
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whoah! take it easy big guy! on the contrary! i believe its important to teach children the diference between fact and fiction. i also believe that hiding fiction from people will stifle imagination, and creative thought. don't fear words, they can't hurt you.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:50:59 AM EDT
Here's how the story ran in the Alamagordo News - see if you can find any allusions to Nazis, [b]Observer[/b]! [url]http://www.alamogordonews.com/Stories/0,1002,9596%257E307653,00.html[/url] I counted three direct references to Nazis! So that's the 'thread' I'm reading. Sorry to hear about the Complete Works of Shakespeare being burned, but I think the Bard's reputation is safe among those of us who value Western Civilization! Why do the heathen rage? Eric The(Toothless)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:51:07 AM EDT
Private groups burning thier own property -- thats thier business Its when they try to extend that to other peoples books and property that it becomes a problem. All it does is show how small minded and insecure they are if they were truly Christian they would be secure in the rightousness and supremacy of thier god to know that no fairy tale or devil worshiper could ever hope to unseat or diminish him. And that the christanity should seek to glorify and build in Gods name and not destroy or surpress. Jesus spoke of love of your fellow man not hate. It is man who introduced hate and destruction into God's word Men use religion as a control metohd just as dictators and cultists do. God is freedom and knowledge and love and power-- not fear and repression and control those things come from men and preachers are men too. Farenheit 451 applies when the STATE assumes control of information dissemination and declares books and by way of them independant political thought illegal -- total allegiance to the state is the only acceptable mindset.And all sparks of dissention must be snuffed before they start a larger fire in the mind. That wave has already begun -- parent and religous groups combing school libraries for "offensive" books to be banned through political pressure on administrators has been the norm for years now and will continue.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:55:33 AM EDT
I'm with Osprey.... "Farenheit 451" I'm also with the poster who said "Teach the kids that there is fiction and non-fiction". I just think that it is everyone's right to do as they will with their property, but I worry that the liberal media will glorify such extremes so that the Sheeple will consider it a good thing and next thing you know we'll get the knock on the door "I want your Stephen King and Dean Koontz books because they contain supernatural references!" And right behind the fricking bible-bangers stands a guy with 4473 forms with YOUR NAME ON THEM!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:01:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fatty:
Originally Posted By a3kid:
Originally Posted By fatty: AAAAAAHHHHHH!!! fiction!!!!! run! run away! terrible, horrible, life-threatening fiction!!!!! [rolleyes] what are they afraid of? that reading fiction could lead to dancing???
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[b]WTF[/b] is your big issue with it? Did they take the books from [u]your[/u] children and burn them? You're heading straight down the path to "I'm qualified to tell your children what they can read and you're not." Hillary must be a big fan of yours.....
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whoah! take it easy big guy! on the contrary! i believe its important to teach children the diference between fact and fiction. i also believe that hiding fiction from people will stifle imagination, and creative thought. don't fear words, they can't hurt you.
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You see Fatty, to me it isn't an issue of whether a specific book will adversely effect a child or not. It's an issue of whether those parents are free to raise their children as they see fit, or whether people like [u]yourself[/u] ought to make those decisions for them. For all the bitching and whining we do around her about freedom, [b]some[/b] of us are sure quick to forget that that is supposed to apply to everybody.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:02:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By a3kid:
Originally Posted By fatty: AAAAAAHHHHHH!!! fiction!!!!! run! run away! terrible, horrible, life-threatening fiction!!!!! [rolleyes] what are they afraid of? that reading fiction could lead to dancing???
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[b]WTF[/b] is your big issue with it? Did they take the books from [u]your[/u] children and burn them? You're heading straight down the path to "I'm qualified to tell your children what they can read and you're not." Hillary must be a big fan of yours.....
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My big issue with public burning of books is the symbolism. Upon reading the post my first mental image was one of the Nazi's in Germany burning a bonfire of books. (If you don't "home-school" your children already they're being told what to read.) Finally, liberals always seek to portray the religious right as ignorant and intolerant. The public actions of Rev. Jack allows the liberals to prove their point. [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:02:32 AM EDT
Yes, [b]offctr[/b], I agree with you almost entirely, but the problem becomes what are parents to do when their state tax-supported school has adopted a 'religion' that is just as offensive to them as their's must be to the State. In other words, why is there such a movement to put 'Heather Has Two Mommies' into the reach of young impressionable children, unless it is their 'Gospel According to Dworkin'? Quite frankly, I'm glad to see Christians on the offensive against what they perceive to be a corruption in State-supported and approved religion in the guise of human secularism. If they sometimes act irrationally, well, what should you expect? They are human, after all, but they are apparently the [u]only[/u] humans whose foibles and frailities are not to be forgiven! Murderers, rapists, gun control advocates, et al, can [u]always[/u] be forgiven, but never, ever can fundamental Christians! Well, at least not in this world... Eric The(ForeWarned&ForeArmedChristian)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:03:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fatty: don't fear words, they can't hurt you.
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Similarly, don't fear an INDIVIDUALs decision to "burn some words" that are their own property, as that won't hurt you either.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:05:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By fatty: don't fear words, they can't hurt you.
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Similarly, don't fear an INDIVIDUALs decision to "burn some words" that are their own property, as that won't hurt you either.
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In no way can the public burning of books by the religious right be good for the religious right. Or any other conservative.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:10:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: It may be stupid, it may be indefensible, but it's perfectly legal! Eric The(SoWhatElseIsNew?)Hun[>]:)]
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Ah, the Al Gore defense! Sounds an awful lot like "no controlling legal authority" to me.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:10:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: In no way can the public burning of books by the religious right be good for the religious right. Or any other conservative.
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I don't disagree. Burning a book makes this fella look like an idiot. But that is ALL that he is - an idiot. NOT the anti-Constitutionalist, facist, Nazi, biggoted, hatemongering, balding, anal killjoy that SOME want to make him look like. He's just a harmless idiot. But some people like to put idiots down to make themselves look better. Well congratulations to them - they are smarter than an idiot. THAT is my point.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:11:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By a3kid: You see Fatty, to me it isn't an issue of whether a specific book will adversely effect a child or not.
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nor is it my point. in fact, it is the exact opposite.
It's an issue of whether those parents are free to raise their children as they see fit, or whether people like [u]yourself[/u] ought to make those decisions for them. For all the bitching and whining we do around her about freedom, [b]some[/b] of us are sure quick to forget that that is supposed to apply to everybody.
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i think you missed the point, i am not condoning NOR criticizing the actual burning. you are free to raise your kids how you see fit. they are free to burn books. i am, however, criticizing their CHOICE to burn these books, i mean, its fiction, but i guess if you can't teach your kids the difference between fact and fiction, i guess book burnings are for you! and garandman, i don't fear the burning of books (unless its a state sponsered event) after all, didn't God create those who write fiction? and didn't he instill in humans the ability to make paper, and ink ~ and for that matter fiction?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:13:17 AM EDT
The state by definition CANNOT act in the intrests of the individual. Therefore when pearents cede thier childrens upbringing to the state or religious authourity the outcome should not surprise them.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:14:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 7:25:04 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Post from 5subslr5 -
In no way can the public burning of books by the religious right be good for the religious right. Or any other conservative.
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You're quite right about that. It is the tragedy of the age in which we live that all of the b.s. that we have to put up with from the Left is scarcely mentioned by the Media, but whenever someone in our camp misbehaves in a any manner or degree, it makes the front pages! Andrea Dworkin can say that 'all heterosexual sex is rape' and people will say, well, you know she has a point to a certain degree, but we can say we don't want anal sex discussed in kindergarten classes, and suddenly, we're the main problem with society today. That's why we need to shape up [u]our[/u] ranks a bit. I guaran-g.d.-tee you that Jack Brock and his Sheeple support the RKBA and there's not many fundamentalist Christians who don't. As a matter of fact, I don't know of any fundamentalist Christian sects that advocate disarmament of the people, do you? Can the same be said of pagans? Eric The(Exasperated)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:18:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fatty: i think you missed the point, i am not condoning NOR criticizing the actual burning. you are free to raise your kids how you see fit. they are free to burn books. i am, however, criticizing their CHOICE to burn these books, i mean, its fiction, but i guess if you can't teach your kids the difference between fact and fiction, i guess book burnings are for you!
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You made these two statements back to back trying to defend yourself against the accusation that you believe [b]you[/b] are more qualified to tell people how to raise their children than [b]they[/b] are???
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:18:48 AM EDT
Post from tinker -
Ah, the Al Gore defense! Sounds an awful lot like "no controlling legal authority" to me.
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How so, [b]Tinker[/b]? In what way? There is 'controlling legal authority' for what I just stated. Sorry, no hits, no runs, one error. Eric The(BatterUp)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:23:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: In no way can the public burning of books by the religious right be good for the religious right. Or any other conservative.
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I don't disagree. Burning a book makes this fella look like an idiot.
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Yea, I agree with you. I had the same thing happen to me recently. This idiot “burned” this post that made him look less than Christian. It just makes him look like a bigger idiot I say!
But that is ALL that he is - an idiot.
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Hey the same thing in my situation as well!
NOT the anti-Constitutionalist, facist, Nazi, biggoted, hatemongering, balding, anal killjoy that SOME want to make him look like.
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Mine used racist terms like “jungle bunny” and called me stupid because I knew something he did not. [:(] He even quoted himself! And it wasn’t even that good a quote.[rolleyes]
He's just a harmless idiot. But some people like to put idiots down to make themselves look better. Well congratulations to them - they are smarter than an idiot. THAT is my point.
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OH, now I feel bad. I did that to my idiot.[:(] But I am still smarter than an idiot! [:D] Hurray! -Velveeta
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