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Posted: 8/8/2016 3:16:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMRT:
how to say this.. meh this thread has it all and it hasnt gone to shit so here it goes. week 4 - 6 days since last shot. shot 5(100mg) is in 24 hours. . side note .. no crash/tired feeling still feel great on the last day erections are rock hard and on demand now.. but yes there is a but .. i dont climax / ejaculate the pros is - I can go for a significant amount of time longer cons - "I" dont finish. right now I see it as making it up to the mrs for times past.. but im gonna need to get this resolved. is it doc time ? i still dont know my "E" numbers could it have something to do with that ? but the "woody" is like Iron at this point. no cialis/viagra ( i have the indian versions.. its like that but without the need for the pills now ) im only caught up to page 125 but wanted to bring this up. any input on this? TLDR+ -good erections -lasts way longer -do not climax -last day of week 4 TC @ 100mg still feeling great Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMRT:
Originally Posted By SMRT:
small update: took shot #4 Aug 2. shot 1 was 50mg shot 2 was 50mg shot 3 was 50mg shot 4 was 100mg lets just say i could not roll out of bed this morning. (see pic) 
all im gonna say is this ( see pic) ...... and carry on with my wonderful day i wasnt tested for my E.. but im gonna call it as in range 
the next morning after shot #4 http://www.titanui.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/18/Toy-Story-Woody-Layered-PSD-02.jpg how to say this.. meh this thread has it all and it hasnt gone to shit so here it goes. week 4 - 6 days since last shot. shot 5(100mg) is in 24 hours. . side note .. no crash/tired feeling still feel great on the last day erections are rock hard and on demand now.. but yes there is a but .. i dont climax / ejaculate the pros is - I can go for a significant amount of time longer cons - "I" dont finish. right now I see it as making it up to the mrs for times past.. but im gonna need to get this resolved. is it doc time ? i still dont know my "E" numbers could it have something to do with that ? but the "woody" is like Iron at this point. no cialis/viagra ( i have the indian versions.. its like that but without the need for the pills now ) im only caught up to page 125 but wanted to bring this up. any input on this? TLDR+ -good erections -lasts way longer -do not climax -last day of week 4 TC @ 100mg still feeling great Most likely high E. |
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Posted: 8/8/2016 3:18:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMRT:
how to say this.. meh this thread has it all and it hasnt gone to shit so here it goes. week 4 - 6 days since last shot. shot 5(100mg) is in 24 hours. . side note .. no crash/tired feeling still feel great on the last day erections are rock hard and on demand now.. but yes there is a but .. i dont climax / ejaculate the pros is - I can go for a significant amount of time longer cons - "I" dont finish. right now I see it as making it up to the mrs for times past.. but im gonna need to get this resolved. is it doc time ? i still dont know my "E" numbers could it have something to do with that ? but the "woody" is like Iron at this point. no cialis/viagra ( i have the indian versions.. its like that but without the need for the pills now ) im only caught up to page 125 but wanted to bring this up. any input on this? TLDR+ -good erections -lasts way longer -do not climax -last day of week 4 TC @ 100mg still feeling great Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMRT:
Originally Posted By SMRT:
small update: took shot #4 Aug 2. shot 1 was 50mg shot 2 was 50mg shot 3 was 50mg shot 4 was 100mg lets just say i could not roll out of bed this morning. (see pic)
all im gonna say is this ( see pic) ...... and carry on with my wonderful day i wasnt tested for my E.. but im gonna call it as in range
the next morning after shot #4 http://www.titanui.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/18/Toy-Story-Woody-Layered-PSD-02.jpg how to say this.. meh this thread has it all and it hasnt gone to shit so here it goes. week 4 - 6 days since last shot. shot 5(100mg) is in 24 hours. . side note .. no crash/tired feeling still feel great on the last day erections are rock hard and on demand now.. but yes there is a but .. i dont climax / ejaculate the pros is - I can go for a significant amount of time longer cons - "I" dont finish. right now I see it as making it up to the mrs for times past.. but im gonna need to get this resolved. is it doc time ? i still dont know my "E" numbers could it have something to do with that ? but the "woody" is like Iron at this point. no cialis/viagra ( i have the indian versions.. its like that but without the need for the pills now ) im only caught up to page 125 but wanted to bring this up. any input on this? TLDR+ -good erections -lasts way longer -do not climax -last day of week 4 TC @ 100mg still feeling great Look at prolactin levels. Sometimes those values go up and it's damn near impossible to get off. |
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Posted: 8/8/2016 3:21:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Do 2 injections Test Cyp per week for more stability (it sounds like you're on one per week). Check your E numbers to make sure they are not out of whack. Use an AI if needed. Take HCG 250-500iu 2x per week.
If that doesn't help with your problem, add in Tadalafil. I think it would be a better fit than viagra for you. Try 5mg every day. It takes 3-4 hours to start working and a few days to build up in your system (30 hour half life iirc). Take the lowest amount possible but still get the correct affect. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/8/2016 4:00:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Do 2 injections Test Cyp per week for more stability (it sounds like you're on one per week). Check your E numbers to make sure they are not out of whack. Use an AI if needed. Take HCG 250-500iu 2x per week. If that doesn't help with your problem, add in Tadalafil. I think it would be a better fit than viagra for you. Try 5mg every day. It takes 3-4 hours to start working and a few days to build up in your system (30 hour half life iirc). Take the lowest amount possible but still get the correct affect. - ordered an AI last week USPS tracking says it arrived at my post office hopefully gets to my door in 24 hours -tadalafil have those but i havent needed them just think and it salutes without the need of the pills for the last week - HCG no idea where to get that .. i found the AI , but no luck on the HCG |
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Posted: 8/8/2016 4:13:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CLICKBANGBANG]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMRT:
- ordered an AI last week USPS tracking says it arrived at my post office hopefully gets to my door in 24 hours -tadalafil have those but i havent needed them just think and it salutes without the need of the pills for the last week - HCG no idea where to get that .. i found the AI , but no luck on the HCG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMRT:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Do 2 injections Test Cyp per week for more stability (it sounds like you're on one per week). Check your E numbers to make sure they are not out of whack. Use an AI if needed. Take HCG 250-500iu 2x per week. If that doesn't help with your problem, add in Tadalafil. I think it would be a better fit than viagra for you. Try 5mg every day. It takes 3-4 hours to start working and a few days to build up in your system (30 hour half life iirc). Take the lowest amount possible but still get the correct affect. - ordered an AI last week USPS tracking says it arrived at my post office hopefully gets to my door in 24 hours -tadalafil have those but i havent needed them just think and it salutes without the need of the pills for the last week - HCG no idea where to get that .. i found the AI , but no luck on the HCG Where Viagra is like starter fluid and helps to start, Tadalafil can help to keep it up and keep going. Harder erections. And can help to keep from going to half mast. If you don't see hCG you could ask for a reliable RX. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/8/2016 4:21:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SMRT]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Where Viagra is like starter fluid and helps to start, Tadalafil can help to keep it up and keep going. Harder erections. And can help to keep from going to half mast. If you don't see hCG you could ask for a reliable RX. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By SMRT:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Do 2 injections Test Cyp per week for more stability (it sounds like you're on one per week). Check your E numbers to make sure they are not out of whack. Use an AI if needed. Take HCG 250-500iu 2x per week. If that doesn't help with your problem, add in Tadalafil. I think it would be a better fit than viagra for you. Try 5mg every day. It takes 3-4 hours to start working and a few days to build up in your system (30 hour half life iirc). Take the lowest amount possible but still get the correct affect. - ordered an AI last week USPS tracking says it arrived at my post office hopefully gets to my door in 24 hours -tadalafil have those but i havent needed them just think and it salutes without the need of the pills for the last week - HCG no idea where to get that .. i found the AI , but no luck on the HCG Where Viagra is like starter fluid and helps to start, Tadalafil can help to keep it up and keep going. Harder erections. And can help to keep from going to half mast. If you don't see hCG you could ask for a reliable RX. i see what your saying.. thanks edit wow found it! |
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Posted: 8/8/2016 5:00:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Where Viagra is like starter fluid and helps to start, Tadalafil can help to keep it up and keep going. Harder erections. And can help to keep from going to half mast. If you don't see hCG you could ask for a reliable RX. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By SMRT:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Do 2 injections Test Cyp per week for more stability (it sounds like you're on one per week). Check your E numbers to make sure they are not out of whack. Use an AI if needed. Take HCG 250-500iu 2x per week. If that doesn't help with your problem, add in Tadalafil. I think it would be a better fit than viagra for you. Try 5mg every day. It takes 3-4 hours to start working and a few days to build up in your system (30 hour half life iirc). Take the lowest amount possible but still get the correct affect. - ordered an AI last week USPS tracking says it arrived at my post office hopefully gets to my door in 24 hours -tadalafil have those but i havent needed them just think and it salutes without the need of the pills for the last week - HCG no idea where to get that .. i found the AI , but no luck on the HCG Where Viagra is like starter fluid and helps to start, Tadalafil can help to keep it up and keep going. Harder erections. And can help to keep from going to half mast. If you don't see hCG you could ask for a reliable RX. If I read tat right he's saying he doesn't have a problem getting it up and keeping it up. Getting off is the problem. Tada won't do anything for helping get off. |
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Posted: 8/8/2016 7:21:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
If I read tat right he's saying he doesn't have a problem getting it up and keeping it up. Getting off is the problem. Tada won't do anything for helping get off. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By SMRT:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Do 2 injections Test Cyp per week for more stability (it sounds like you're on one per week). Check your E numbers to make sure they are not out of whack. Use an AI if needed. Take HCG 250-500iu 2x per week. If that doesn't help with your problem, add in Tadalafil. I think it would be a better fit than viagra for you. Try 5mg every day. It takes 3-4 hours to start working and a few days to build up in your system (30 hour half life iirc). Take the lowest amount possible but still get the correct affect. - ordered an AI last week USPS tracking says it arrived at my post office hopefully gets to my door in 24 hours -tadalafil have those but i havent needed them just think and it salutes without the need of the pills for the last week - HCG no idea where to get that .. i found the AI , but no luck on the HCG Where Viagra is like starter fluid and helps to start, Tadalafil can help to keep it up and keep going. Harder erections. And can help to keep from going to half mast. If you don't see hCG you could ask for a reliable RX. If I read tat right he's saying he doesn't have a problem getting it up and keeping it up. Getting off is the problem. Tada won't do anything for helping get off. Higher E2 will cause that as will prolactin. Some of the boards are reporting that PT-141(Bremelanotide) helps with this. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:45:57 AM EDT
[#9]
I bookmarked this thread a couple years ago, lol.
My dad had a physical and noted he has Low-T, what's some good/safe OTC he can use? Is this any good? Super Miraforte with Standardized Lignans |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:57:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Merc1973: what's some good/safe OTC he can use? There aren't any. Nothing over the counter will fix someone with low T. Different supplements might give someone up to a 10% increase in T levels and that is being generous. Someone with low T needs 200% increase minimum. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2016 12:08:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
There aren't any. Nothing over the counter will fix someone with low T. Different supplements might give someone up to a 10% increase in T levels and that is being generous. Someone with low T needs 200% increase minimum. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
what's some good/safe OTC he can use? There aren't any. Nothing over the counter will fix someone with low T. Different supplements might give someone up to a 10% increase in T levels and that is being generous. Someone with low T needs 200% increase minimum. Thanks, he's on a fixed income. You guys mentioned Rx testosterone cypionate for self injections works well. Is it cost effective? |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 12:24:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Merc1973:
Thanks, he's on a fixed income. You guys mentioned Rx testosterone cypionate for self injections works well. Is it cost effective? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Merc1973:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
what's some good/safe OTC he can use? There aren't any. Nothing over the counter will fix someone with low T. Different supplements might give someone up to a 10% increase in T levels and that is being generous. Someone with low T needs 200% increase minimum. Thanks, he's on a fixed income. You guys mentioned Rx testosterone cypionate for self injections works well. Is it cost effective? He could have a decent dose of Rx TC from a legit pharmacy for about $100 a year without involving insurance. |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 1:17:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Anyone have some peer reviewed articles on SQ T? I just did a quick search and the last one I found was 2006 for testosterone proprionate.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:14:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Week 5
Switched to subQ - 26 ga needle 100mg per week Feeling good and sex drive is back. I've gained 5 lbs. It feels and looks like water weight. Will an AI help with the water weight? |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:36:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bowhuntr09:
He could have a decent dose of Rx TC from a legit pharmacy for about $100 a year without involving insurance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bowhuntr09:
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
what's some good/safe OTC he can use? There aren't any. Nothing over the counter will fix someone with low T. Different supplements might give someone up to a 10% increase in T levels and that is being generous. Someone with low T needs 200% increase minimum. Thanks, he's on a fixed income. You guys mentioned Rx testosterone cypionate for self injections works well. Is it cost effective? He could have a decent dose of Rx TC from a legit pharmacy for about $100 a year without involving insurance. Thank you! Is there a good website for dosages/cycles or should I scour through 234 pages here?
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:53:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Anyone have some peer reviewed articles on SQ T? I just did a quick search and the last one I found was 2006 for testosterone proprionate. Tnation.com just did a YouTube video on it. I'd link it but I'm not on my computer. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:57:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SMRT]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Merc1973:
Thank you! Is there a good website for dosages/cycles or should I scour through 234 pages here?
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Merc1973:
Originally Posted By bowhuntr09:
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
what's some good/safe OTC he can use? There aren't any. Nothing over the counter will fix someone with low T. Different supplements might give someone up to a 10% increase in T levels and that is being generous. Someone with low T needs 200% increase minimum. Thanks, he's on a fixed income. You guys mentioned Rx testosterone cypionate for self injections works well. Is it cost effective? He could have a decent dose of Rx TC from a legit pharmacy for about $100 a year without involving insurance. Thank you! Is there a good website for dosages/cycles or should I scour through 234 pages here?
gonna sound harsh but i suggest you read it all . im on 130ish now its alot but great shitter reading material. oh yeah there is drama too.. at the point im on .. swire and the-det-oak are going back and forth seeing whos dick is bigger ( might be the wrong wording based on the subject of this thread )
do your self a favor.. sit back and read all this. use me as an example. i went top the doc .. turns out doc dont know shit.. or refuses to do certain test.. without this thread i would be . hey he is the Doc.. but no.. i have lost all faith in him.. BUT he did get me a script for the big bottle of Test -c .. so there is that ( thats the one that will cost you without insurance... about 88 bucks for the year.. 88 freaking bucks for about a years supply ..!!! goodrx.com )
44 bucks for 20 week supply @ 100mg per week from a WALGREENS 5 min away from me we all say " i dont wanna read all xxx pages " in most BS / funny / politcal threads.. on this one.. you do. no suger coating it. you think/know you have Low -T this thread is a must read from start to finish does it have filler posts yeah but its also has drama between members and in between all the BS is invaluable info .
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Posted: 8/10/2016 11:24:32 AM EDT
[#18]
No lie, I've been following this thread for years before I ever had my t checked. Originally I thought the whole process was interesting, along with all the different approaches. Then I figured out I needed it too.
There are people in the thread that know more about TRT than my local docs. And I'm including the specialists. Read the thread. Twice if you can. Like the guy above said, its good bathroom material if nothing else. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:35:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SWIRE]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMRT: oh yeah there is drama too.. at the point im on .. swire and the-det-oak are going back and forth seeing whos dick is bigger ( might be the wrong wording based on the subject of this thread ) Not really the correct analogy but I don't know any other words to describe it either. One of us is a non-gun owning paid marketing shill for a high priced testosterone clinic arguing that the main expensive treatment their clinic offers is the only treatment that works. The other is long time gun owning member of the board who has lived with the condition for 6 years, has done over 20 labs on himself with different treatment options and presents all relevant information on the different treatment options so that people can make informed and educated decisions. That's not to say either one is wrong or doesn't provide some insight, just that one has an paid marketing agenda while one doesn't. For example the-det-oak mentioned that a recent study showed T with HCG could maintain fertility. He didn't provide the study and I didn't believe him so I did my own research. I found a very limited study that suggested it could work, switched from clomid to T and HCG to give it a try and then had labs done including a seamen analysis. Sure enough in my case T plus HCG maintained my fertility. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 7:09:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dogsandhogs]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
Not really the correct analogy but I don't know any other words to describe it either. One of us is was a non-gun owning paid marketing shill for a high priced testosterone clinic arguing that the main expensive treatment their clinic offers is the only treatment that works. The other is long time gun owning member of the board who has lived with the condition for 6 years, has done over 20 labs on himself with different treatment options and presents all relevant information on the different treatment options so that people can make informed and educated decisions. That's not to say either one is wrong or doesn't provide some insight, just that one has an paid marketing agenda while one doesn't. For example the-det-oak mentioned that a recent study showed T with HCG could maintain fertility. He didn't provide the study and I didn't believe him so I did my own research. I found a very limited study that suggested it could work, switched from clomid to T and HCG to give it a try and then had labs done including a seamen analysis. Sure enough in my case T plus HCG maintained my fertility. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By SMRT:
oh yeah there is drama too.. at the point im on .. swire and the-det-oak are going back and forth seeing whos dick is bigger ( might be the wrong wording based on the subject of this thread )
Not really the correct analogy but I don't know any other words to describe it either. One of us is was a non-gun owning paid marketing shill for a high priced testosterone clinic arguing that the main expensive treatment their clinic offers is the only treatment that works. The other is long time gun owning member of the board who has lived with the condition for 6 years, has done over 20 labs on himself with different treatment options and presents all relevant information on the different treatment options so that people can make informed and educated decisions. That's not to say either one is wrong or doesn't provide some insight, just that one has an paid marketing agenda while one doesn't. For example the-det-oak mentioned that a recent study showed T with HCG could maintain fertility. He didn't provide the study and I didn't believe him so I did my own research. I found a very limited study that suggested it could work, switched from clomid to T and HCG to give it a try and then had labs done including a seamen analysis. Sure enough in my case T plus HCG maintained my fertility. Fixed it for you. I haven't seen him around lately, so I did a search, and his name doesn't pop up. Looks like he was banned. I thought adding the company logo to his avatar was a little bold without paying for an industry membership. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 7:23:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dogsandhogs: Fixed it for you. I haven't seen him around lately, so I did a search, and his name doesn't pop up. Looks like he was banned. I thought adding the company logo to his avatar was a little bold without paying for an industry membership. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dogsandhogs: Originally Posted By SWIRE: Originally Posted By SMRT: oh yeah there is drama too.. at the point im on .. swire and the-det-oak are going back and forth seeing whos dick is bigger ( might be the wrong wording based on the subject of this thread ) Not really the correct analogy but I don't know any other words to describe it either. One of us is was a non-gun owning paid marketing shill for a high priced testosterone clinic arguing that the main expensive treatment their clinic offers is the only treatment that works. The other is long time gun owning member of the board who has lived with the condition for 6 years, has done over 20 labs on himself with different treatment options and presents all relevant information on the different treatment options so that people can make informed and educated decisions. That's not to say either one is wrong or doesn't provide some insight, just that one has an paid marketing agenda while one doesn't. For example the-det-oak mentioned that a recent study showed T with HCG could maintain fertility. He didn't provide the study and I didn't believe him so I did my own research. I found a very limited study that suggested it could work, switched from clomid to T and HCG to give it a try and then had labs done including a seamen analysis. Sure enough in my case T plus HCG maintained my fertility. Fixed it for you. I haven't seen him around lately, so I did a search, and his name doesn't pop up. Looks like he was banned. I thought adding the company logo to his avatar was a little bold without paying for an industry membership. He was back here a few months back, without a membership and a much nicer personality. He never directly linked to his employers site or spammed the board with their name. I know several people here used to use his company. That was before they changed their plan, increased their prices, and their customer service went down hill. He sort of disappeared from the board when all that happened. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 7:41:55 PM EDT
[#22]
I remember my first lab work that my regular doc did back in September of 2012. I had to ask him to run a T test. So, he ran a T test, and FSH and a Vitamin D. T was low (301, ref 348-1197), FSH normal and D a little low. He gave me some stuff to try (T patch). So, couple of months later, another T test, along with LH and SHBG. T was at 268, LH and SHBG normal. So, since that not only wasn't working, it was negatively helpful, he wanted to run an MRI on my pituitary. My cost was $700 after insurance paid their part.
 It didn't find anything (which was a good result as it ruled out a pituitary tumor as the cause of my low T). He told me he could start T shots for me. When I presented him with an alternative, he basically punted. He's a follow-the-book doctor. If it's not in the Standards of Care, he doesn't know it exists.
He referred me to an endo. Endo wants to try a different T patch. All it does is give me a rash and lowers my T further. Finally convinced him to prescribe Clomid. Couple of months later, my T was up to 612. Since then, it seems to have peaked just shy of 700. So, while the Clomid did clear up the mental fog, fatigue and some other issues (like ridiculous forgetfulness), it hasn't made me a superstar in the bedroom again. But it's an easy and cheap treatment option, just one pill a day, cost to me is about 7 bux a month. I still have to monitor my E levels. I've learned that one of the OTC items mentioned here (EstroDIM) seems to have a dramatic effect on keeping my E at the right levels. Without it, my E spikes. With it, it stays in the right range. If it gets out of range and I take Arimidex, then it's pretty easy to drive my E too low and I get the joint pain crap. The information in this thread probably has done more to improve my quality of life than virtually all of the "professional" medical practitioners efforts. And, I'm still learning, still reading about new things that might improve it even more. Yeah Team! 
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:00:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
I remember my first lab work that my regular doc did back in September of 2012. I had to ask him to run a T test. So, he ran a T test, and FSH and a Vitamin D. T was low (301, ref 348-1197), FSH normal and D a little low. He gave me some stuff to try (T patch). So, couple of months later, another T test, along with LH and SHBG. T was at 268, LH and SHBG normal. So, since that not only wasn't working, it was negatively helpful, he wanted to run an MRI on my pituitary. My cost was $700 after insurance paid their part. It didn't find anything (which was a good result as it ruled out a pituitary tumor as the cause of my low T). He told me he could start T shots for me. When I presented him with an alternative, he basically punted. He's a follow-the-book doctor. If it's not in the Standards of Care, he doesn't know it exists.
He referred me to an endo. Endo wants to try a different T patch. All it does is give me a rash and lowers my T further. Finally convinced him to prescribe Clomid. Couple of months later, my T was up to 612. Since then, it seems to have peaked just shy of 700. So, while the Clomid did clear up the mental fog, fatigue and some other issues (like ridiculous forgetfulness), it hasn't made me a superstar in the bedroom again. But it's an easy and cheap treatment option, just one pill a day, cost to me is about 7 bux a month. I still have to monitor my E levels. I've learned that one of the OTC items mentioned here (EstroDIM) seems to have a dramatic effect on keeping my E at the right levels. Without it, my E spikes. With it, it stays in the right range. If it gets out of range and I take Arimidex, then it's pretty easy to drive my E too low and I get the joint pain crap. The information in this thread probably has done more to improve my quality of life than virtually all of the "professional" medical practitioners efforts. And, I'm still learning, still reading about new things that might improve it even more. Yeah Team! Clomid pretty much killed my sex drive, the only fun part was I made Peter North look like a pussy and my balls were huge, useless but huge. For the E2 control I found that ZMA (recommended by another member) helps. It's a zinc supplement and it's hard to overdue that but taking it daily dramatically lowered my E2. My theory is it probably works for those that over respond to anastrazol. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:44:22 PM EDT
[#24]
ZMA does seem to help with E control. Gotta watch the M part though if you have HcT issues.
It's all a big balancing act. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:57:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Tnation.com just did a YouTube video on it. I'd link it but I'm not on my computer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Anyone have some peer reviewed articles on SQ T? I just did a quick search and the last one I found was 2006 for testosterone proprionate. Tnation.com just did a YouTube video on it. I'd link it but I'm not on my computer. This one? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 11:56:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cowboy:
ZMA does seem to help with E control. Gotta watch the M part though if you have HcT issues. It's all a big balancing act. Do you have any links about Magnesium and HCT? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 11:59:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#27]
We take ZMA and I haven't noticed any difference in HCT--- If anything, a bit lower recently...
The issue is clouded since I started on Sermorelin and HGRP-2 and 6 HCT seems to increase abt 2.4% per month without intervention... |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 12:10:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Do you have any links about Magnesium and HCT? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By cowboy:
ZMA does seem to help with E control. Gotta watch the M part though if you have HcT issues. It's all a big balancing act. Do you have any links about Magnesium and HCT? Nothing that I can find right now. I just remember seeing it somewhere when I was first researching zma. I'll hunt more when I'm on a real computer. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 1:06:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cowboy:
Nothing that I can find right now. I just remember seeing it somewhere when I was first researching zma. I'll hunt more when I'm on a real computer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cowboy:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By cowboy:
ZMA does seem to help with E control. Gotta watch the M part though if you have HcT issues. It's all a big balancing act. Do you have any links about Magnesium and HCT? Nothing that I can find right now. I just remember seeing it somewhere when I was first researching zma. I'll hunt more when I'm on a real computer. My magnesium intake is high. So I wonder how strong the connection is. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 11:15:06 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Anyone have some peer reviewed articles on SQ T? I just did a quick search and the last one I found was 2006 for testosterone proprionate. Tnation.com just did a YouTube video on it. I'd link it but I'm not on my computer. This one? Yes sir. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 11:17:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2tired2run]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
My magnesium intake is high. So I wonder how strong the connection is. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By cowboy:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By cowboy:
ZMA does seem to help with E control. Gotta watch the M part though if you have HcT issues. It's all a big balancing act. Do you have any links about Magnesium and HCT? Nothing that I can find right now. I just remember seeing it somewhere when I was first researching zma. I'll hunt more when I'm on a real computer. My magnesium intake is high. So I wonder how strong the connection is. Only article I could find -- http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/hemoglobin%E2%80%99s-oxygen-carrying-capacity-magnesium: "Magnesium deficient diet leads to significant decreases in the concentration of red blood cells (RBC), hemoglobin and eventually a decrease in whole blood Fe. In fact we find many ways in which magnesium deficiency leads to problems with oxygen transport and utilization" Not sure if we can say that the inverse is true in other words if you overload on magnesium will it cause the RBC concentration to increase. Another bit of info here: http://www.futurescience.com/crfemg.html Since ZMA has B6 in it which according to this article can be used to increase Hemoglocbin: http://www.md-health.com/How-To-Increase-Hemoglobin.html and Since zinc is really what I'm after since there is some evidence to support it inhibits aromitization, I may just try a straight zinc supplement: From - : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8613886 "formation of estradiol from testosterone was significantly greater in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet compared with freely fed and pair-fed control rats. " |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 11:22:49 AM EDT
[#32]
I've looked into ZMA a few times for better sleep. But I'm already taking a calcium magnesium and Zinc along with a bunch of other supplements. I'm not sure is taking ZMA would make much of a difference for me.
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Posted: 8/11/2016 12:05:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Anyone else finding themselves needing to go OFF TRT?
Not sure of the units, but my free T was at 100; urologist said it should be at 30 max. He asked me about my diet; I said Keto. He said we may be taking me off TRT altogether. He attributes it at least partly to diet. I was taking .5 per week self injected-- actually doing .25 twice a week. Now I'm at .25 per week total. Will get retested in 4 weeks. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 12:22:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Geohans: Anyone else finding themselves needing to go OFF TRT? Not sure of the units, but my free T was at 100; urologist said it should be at 30 max. He asked me about my diet; I said Keto. He said we may be taking me off TRT altogether. He attributes it at least partly to diet. I was taking .5 per week self injected-- actually doing .25 twice a week. Now I'm at .25 per week total. Will get retested in 4 weeks. That's high assuming the units are pg/ml. .5 ml per week is not a huge dose and might not be enough to shut off natural production. You'd have to check FSH and LH to know if your boys went back to work, but that would not be normal. Great if they did, but not the norm. What is your total testosterone and SHBG? |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 1:49:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Considering going to the doc.
What can I expect out of a visit with a test score of 215? |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 1:57:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rem700PSS:
Considering going to the doc. What can I expect out of a visit with a test score of 215? You want to know how incompetent your doctor is? The possibilities are endless. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 1:58:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Slight thread drift ahead...
I had a nerve conduction test and an EMG the other day. I saw a neurologist last week who diagnosed me with "painful leg and moving toes syndrome." Yeah, no shit, that is what it is really called. For about 22 years now, I have had spasms in my right toe or foot which looks like this: 
And in May or June, the left foot started in on it too. It is annoying as FUCK! I went to a teaching hospital for the nerve conduction test and EMG. I was seen by one resident, then another resident, and then by the real doc. None of them had heard of that diagnosis. I also presented with abnormal deep tendon reflexes, which of course had them puzzled. The real doc asked me two questions which thinking back now has me a little worried: 1. Had I ever had an MRI done of the brain? 2. Do I sweat profusely? Of course, I had to dust off my Psych 101 text book to determine that sweating is a body function of the autonomic nervous system. And yes, I sweat like a mofo! There are other bodily reactions also controlled basically automatically by the autonomic nervous system. 
In my particular case, I just have the moving toes. My legs aren't painful. The one and only case study I could find on "painless legs and moving toes syndrome" was about a woman whose symptoms would go away when she was pregnant or menstruating. I guess it had something to do with her progesterone levels. I think the the results from the nerve conduction test and EMG will be inconclusive...insomuch as they ruled stuff out. I suspect an MRI is in my future. I do experience a constant pressure in my lower back or sacrum area, but I wouldn't call it pain. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 2:01:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
He was back here a few months back, without a membership and a much nicer personality. He never directly linked to his employers site or spammed the board with their name. I know several people here used to use his company. That was before they changed their plan, increased their prices, and their customer service went down hill. He sort of disappeared from the board when all that happened. I use them, mainly because my GP and urologist were no help. The price ain't cheap, but I was able to get a consultation in less 5 than business days, with a shipment at my door less than 5 business days after that. Now that I'm on HRT, I'll head back to my GP and see if I can get him to continue to prescribe exactly what I'm already on. I've got Empower local in Houston for the HCG and GoodRX for the TC, I can cut my costs a ton. Hopefully my GP buys the "I'm already prescribed it, will you prescribe it for me" argument. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 2:15:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WeimaranerDad]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
You want to know how incompetent your doctor is? The possibilities are endless. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
Considering going to the doc. What can I expect out of a visit with a test score of 215? You want to know how incompetent your doctor is? The possibilities are endless. Damn, bro...that's pretty low! Surprised you have the energy to type that post.
Yeah, long story short, there is a 99% chance that your "doc" regardless of specialty is going to know jack shit about TRT. You should have more blood draw to look at you LH and FSH and SHBG. At the risk of outting myself, I was on here in this thread years ago under a different screename. There was some hiccup with logging in as far as email addy and password goes. So in my emails back and forth with the penguin, it was agreed it was just easier for me to sign up under a different screename using my gmail account, at that time. Sooooo...that is a really long round about way of saying I have been with this thread since at least 2012. NOT ONCE, have I ever read about anyone's doctor hitting a grand slam right outta the gate as far as prescribing what I would call the "rule of thumb" TRT protocol: 1. a 1mL injection of 200mg/ml testosterone cypionate once per week* 2. a half a mL injection of HCG once per week* 3. a half mg to a whole 1mg of anastrozole/arimidex* * = individual results can and may vary. Many guys here like splitting the doses over two shots. So a half a mil of test cyp on Sunday, a quarter of a mil of HCG also on Sunday. Then on Wednesday or Thursday, inject another half mil of test and another quarter mil of HCG Some guys can go weeks without taking any anastrozole/arimdex. Some guys like to stagger the shots and anastrozole pills. Again, I think that is a pretty good baseline "protocol" . YMMV. EDIT: the cynic in me really has to question whether docs are really that incompetent, or if they prescribe shit like Androgel, first, on purpose because it is more profitable to them and they know that in a few months when your T levels olateau or drop off, you will be coming back in for another visit. My neighbor got a new job that covers 27 docs. He tried to describe his job to me but my eyes glossed over when he started in with the corporate speak bullshit spiel of "values based incentive programs...." |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2016 10:31:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SMRT]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WeimaranerDad:
Sooooo...that is a really long round about way of saying I have been with this thread since at least 2012. NOT ONCE, have I ever read about anyone's doctor hitting a grand slam right outta the gate as far as prescribing what I would call the "rule of thumb" TRT protocol: 1. a 1mL injection of 200mg/ml testosterone cypionate once per week* 2. a half a mL injection of HCG once per week* 3. a half mg to a whole 1mg of anastrozole/arimidex* * = individual results can and may vary. Many guys here like splitting the doses over two shots. So a half a mil of test cyp on Sunday, a quarter of a mil of HCG also on Sunday. Then on Wednesday or Thursday, inject another half mil of test and another quarter mil of HCG Some guys can go weeks without taking any anastrozole/arimdex. Some guys like to stagger the shots and anastrozole pills. Again, I think that is a pretty good baseline "protocol" . YMMV. EDIT: the cynic in me really has to question whether docs are really that incompetent, or if they prescribe shit like Androgel, first, on purpose because it is more profitable to them and they know that in a few months when your T levels olateau or drop off, you will be coming back in for another visit. 1. a 1mL injection of 200mg/ml testosterone cypionate once per week* I Have this 2. a half a mL injection of HCG once per week* dont have this ..but i can get it 3. a half mg to a whole 1mg of anastrozole/arimidex I Have this HCG is it required ? My doc didnt say no,,he said he isnt up on TRT and test-c was all he gave me based on my test result being 205 HCG can be found . is it safe to just buy mix and take? also my doc ONLY tested for test nothing else. whats the lowest priced primedlab test that will give me the info i need? yes its been posted a bazillion times but now i see there is a new one for $106 is that the one? edit,, the red.. i just think they dont want their name/license on too much of that ... just a guess : shurg : |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 11:45:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMRT: 1. a 1mL injection of 200mg/ml testosterone cypionate once per week* I Have this 2. a half a mL injection of HCG once per week* dont have this ..but i can get it 3. a half mg to a whole 1mg of anastrozole/arimidex I Have this HCG is it required ? My doc didnt say no,,he said he isnt up on TRT and test-c was all he gave me based on my test result being 205 HCG can be found . is it safe to just buy mix and take? also my doc ONLY tested for test nothing else. whats the lowest priced primedlab test that will give me the info i need? yes its been posted a bazillion times but now i see there is a new one for $106 is that the one? edit,, the red.. i just think they dont want their name/license on too much of that ... just a guess : shurg : HCG from a "reliable" source is good to go. You generally have to mix it with bacteriostatic water, not just sterile water, and it will be good for up to 45 days if kept refrigerated. The cheapest lab to get from PrivateMDLabs is the "female hormone panel". It's around $60 with the 15% off coupon code and will give you Total Test and E (non-sensitive). The E sensitive test is better for men but not critical. The lab also covers LH and FSH, which is waste as your levels will be near zero if taking testosterone. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 1:58:40 PM EDT
[#42]
HCG is only good for 45 days? I though it was as much as a few months.
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Posted: 8/12/2016 2:06:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
HCG is only good for 45 days? I though it was as much as a few months. I think reconstituted it is only good for 45 days. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 2:15:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG: HCG is only good for 45 days? I though it was as much as a few months. From what I've read it starts to deteriorate after 30 days. After 45 it deteriorates very rapidly. This info isn't based off any studies, just advice that I've seen. The compound is very fragile, as they say not to shake the vial when you mix but instead to gently swirl it. Also the thermostatic water is supposedly only good for 30 days after it has been exposed to air. The dry power before it gets reconstituted has a shelf life of up to 2 years but once mixed they recommend using it within 30 days. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2016 2:26:38 PM EDT
[#45]
I just had quite the opposite experience with my doctor. After 2 blood tests my test was 191/198. Thyroid was 9.6. Funny thing is i wasn't really feeling bad,just some fog and low energy later in the day, and still making strength gains in the gym (have an amateur PL meet next Saturday). I said "Do you think I need tes....". Doc cuts me off with a prescription for Test C 100mg/week, Exemestane 12.5/E5D, and Armour Thyroid 1 grain a day. Going back in 5 weeks to get retested. Thanks, Doc?
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Posted: 8/12/2016 2:39:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
HCG is only good for 45 days? I though it was as much as a few months. At least 3 months refrigerated according to my pharmacy... Probably considerably longer... |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 7:27:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
From what I've read it starts to deteriorate after 30 days. After 45 it deteriorates very rapidly. This info isn't based off any studies, just advice that I've seen. The compound is very fragile, as they say not to shake the vial when you mix but instead to gently swirl it. Also the thermostatic water is supposedly only good for 30 days after it has been exposed to air. The dry power before it gets reconstituted has a shelf life of up to 2 years but once mixed they recommend using it within 30 days. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
HCG is only good for 45 days? I though it was as much as a few months. From what I've read it starts to deteriorate after 30 days. After 45 it deteriorates very rapidly. This info isn't based off any studies, just advice that I've seen. The compound is very fragile, as they say not to shake the vial when you mix but instead to gently swirl it. Also the thermostatic water is supposedly only good for 30 days after it has been exposed to air. The dry power before it gets reconstituted has a shelf life of up to 2 years but once mixed they recommend using it within 30 days. Interesting. I knew it was very sencitive and good dry on the shelf for a long while. But I thought I'd seen where it was good for up to 90 days if kept refrigerated. My concern is a 5,000iu vial at a 500iu per week is enough for 9-10 weeks. If it degrades at 45 days, should I be tossing the rest after 7 weeks? |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 7:59:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drkddl:
I use them, mainly because my GP and urologist were no help. The price ain't cheap, but I was able to get a consultation in less 5 than business days, with a shipment at my door less than 5 business days after that. Now that I'm on HRT, I'll head back to my GP and see if I can get him to continue to prescribe exactly what I'm already on. I've got Empower local in Houston for the HCG and GoodRX for the TC, I can cut my costs a ton. Hopefully my GP buys the "I'm already prescribed it, will you prescribe it for me" argument. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drkddl:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
He was back here a few months back, without a membership and a much nicer personality. He never directly linked to his employers site or spammed the board with their name. I know several people here used to use his company. That was before they changed their plan, increased their prices, and their customer service went down hill. He sort of disappeared from the board when all that happened. I use them, mainly because my GP and urologist were no help. The price ain't cheap, but I was able to get a consultation in less 5 than business days, with a shipment at my door less than 5 business days after that. Now that I'm on HRT, I'll head back to my GP and see if I can get him to continue to prescribe exactly what I'm already on. I've got Empower local in Houston for the HCG and GoodRX for the TC, I can cut my costs a ton. Hopefully my GP buys the "I'm already prescribed it, will you prescribe it for me" argument. Just find another doc if he won't, my experience is the new ones are very accomodating once the initial rx is made. I've only one into one b$tch that insisted I should come off of it. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 10:43:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USNGM2:
I just had quite the opposite experience with my doctor. After 2 blood tests my test was 191/198. Thyroid was 9.6. Funny thing is i wasn't really feeling bad,just some fog and low energy later in the day, and still making strength gains in the gym (have an amateur PL meet next Saturday). I said "Do you think I need tes....". Doc cuts me off with a prescription for Test C 100mg/week, Exemestane 12.5/E5D, and Armour Thyroid 1 grain a day. Going back in 5 weeks to get retested. Thanks, Doc? No HCG? I don't know what you weigh or what your height is either, but I think you'd be better served by getting 200mg of test cyp per week. That's awesome that your doc gave you a positive experience as compared to at least 50 to 100 negative experiences posted about in this thread. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 11:25:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SWIRE]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG: Interesting. I knew it was very sencitive and good dry on the shelf for a long while. But I thought I'd seen where it was good for up to 90 days if kept refrigerated. My concern is a 5,000iu vial at a 500iu per week is enough for 9-10 weeks. If it degrades at 45 days, should I be tossing the rest after 7 weeks? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG: Originally Posted By SWIRE: Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG: HCG is only good for 45 days? I though it was as much as a few months. From what I've read it starts to deteriorate after 30 days. After 45 it deteriorates very rapidly. This info isn't based off any studies, just advice that I've seen. The compound is very fragile, as they say not to shake the vial when you mix but instead to gently swirl it. Also the thermostatic water is supposedly only good for 30 days after it has been exposed to air. The dry power before it gets reconstituted has a shelf life of up to 2 years but once mixed they recommend using it within 30 days. Interesting. I knew it was very sencitive and good dry on the shelf for a long while. But I thought I'd seen where it was good for up to 90 days if kept refrigerated. My concern is a 5,000iu vial at a 500iu per week is enough for 9-10 weeks. If it degrades at 45 days, should I be tossing the rest after 7 weeks? I wish I had a good answer for you but I don't. If the bacteriostatic water is only good for 30 days then you risk an infection going longer than that even if the HCG is good. The only thing I can suggest is to do labs the day 8 hours after injecting with a new vial and then do a lab 8 hours after injecting with the 90 day old stuff and see if there is any major difference. I would honestly be more worried about infection than the HCG being good. The first time you inject air into the vial you are putting bacteria inside it. This FDA report says 30 days. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf12/K121237.pdf I use a 10,000 iu vial, injecting 500iu three to four times a week. That puts me just over 30 days. If what you are doing is working for you and the labs show it is still effective, then I wouldn't be too concerned about it. |
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