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Posted: 1/1/2002 1:54:01 PM EST
It's time for all you folks to pack up and move to PA. Class III allowed. Shall issue CCW. Beautiful countryside. Lots of places to shoot. Decent land prices in most of the state. Economy in good shape; lots of jobs. Most morons (and crime) isolated in two places (Philadelphia and Pittsburgh). Move in on and we'll make PA an even better placed to live [:)]
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 1:56:39 PM EST
I rather like being safe, thank you.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:09:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:15:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:17:53 PM EST
I'm not up on our states legalities and such, but don't we also have a PA state constitution that also parallels the US constitution ??? Including, protecting gun rights ??? I heard something to this effect while BS'n in a gunstore... Any truth to it ?
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:23:55 PM EST
I got family that lives over the border in North East, PA. Little tiny town and it is so awesome being close to Chatauqua County for all the vineyards on the wine trail. Beautiful country up there and the family has a bed and breakfast that overlooks Erie 5 miles from the shore. On a clear day you can see the power plant on the Canadian side of the lake.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:29:24 PM EST
I a Michigander who moved to Indiana. These folks aren't too bright [;)], but my own home state sort of puts me to shame. At least NFA is A-OK here in Hoosier-tucky. My first CCW in 94 only took 6 weeks from start to finish. Not bad.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:46:36 PM EST
Helldog - Drop me an email if you want to come down and do some shooting. It's a bit cold at the moment for the outdoor ranges but there are a bunch of indoor ranges near-ish to me and even one that allows centerfire rifles. Art - Yes, the PA State Consitituition guarantees the right to keep and bear arms in no uncertain terms. I'll find the cite and edit this message with it.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:51:52 PM EST
Relevant citations from the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania [url]http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Constitution.html[/url] Inherent Rights of Mankind Section 1. All men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent and indefeasible rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing and [b]protecting[/b] property and reputation, and of pursuing their own happiness. [b]Right to Bear Arms Section 21. The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. [/b]
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:54:18 PM EST
I rather like being safe, thank you.
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He said move to PA not to Philadelphia. You're safe as long as you stay away from Phila.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 4:08:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover: I got family that lives over the border in North East, PA. Little tiny town and it is so awesome being close to Chatauqua County for all the vineyards on the wine trail. Beautiful country up there and the family has a bed and breakfast that overlooks Erie 5 miles from the shore. On a clear day you can see the power plant on the Canadian side of the lake.
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I LIVE in chau. county.....but wouldn`t mind moving to pa...........
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 4:08:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 7:21:03 PM EST by gus]
DavidC is lying! Pa. SUCKS! Please do not move here. You won't like it anyway. Too many people, too much crime, repressive govt., out of control LEO's, over taxation, Housing costs are way too high, no womenz. no jobs, no money, and the view sucks. [img]http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v1/3/33/59/17733359UGDBzvlYJb_ph.jpg[/img] Oh wait. That's right, I was thinking of Maryland. Pennsylvania is great. The view is better too! [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/gus%2FBack%2520Yard%2Ejpg[/img] Quite a contrast between work and home, eh?
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 4:50:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Helldog40: I'm tempted! I was in Ct. until they became an "NFA - no" state. Tell ya what: who knows of a nice range us city folk can visit in eastern Pa to try out the neighbothood? [:D]
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NFA items are allowed in CT. The only BS is that machineguns cannot be select fire. BTW, I thought full auto was illegal in NY.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:10:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By DavidC: It's time for all you folks to pack up and move to PA.
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, But: The PA state police have been maintaining an illegal registry of gun owners since the 1930's. It's illegal to hunt with semiauto centerfires in PA. At PA state owned/operated ranges it is illegal to load more than 3 rounds in a semi-auto gun at one time.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:19:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 5:48:47 PM EST by gus]
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By DavidC: It's time for all you folks to pack up and move to PA.
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, But: The PA state police have been maintaining an illegal registry of gun owners since the 1930's. It's illegal to hunt with semiauto centerfires in PA. At PA state owned/operated ranges it is illegal to load more than 3 rounds in a semi-auto gun at one time.
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If you don't think the feds are compiling a registry, you're living in a cave. At least in Pa., they admit it to your face. It's also illegal to hunt (at least in my area) black powder, with a percussion cap gun. Must be a flint lock. Lot's of places have some dumb rules. Do they give your kids off the first day of deer season? They do in my area! As for the ranges, I've never shot at a state owned range. Never needed to. Too many other choices, mostly free of charge and without hassles.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:46:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 5:47:55 PM EST by DavidC]
Ar15fan came forth with: Please correct me if I'm wrong, But: The PA state police have been maintaining an illegal registry of gun owners since the 1930's. It's illegal to hunt with semiauto centerfires in PA. At PA state owned/operated ranges it is illegal to load more than 3 rounds in a semi-auto gun at one time.
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1 Yes, the PSP is currently fighting 3 different lawsuits about that. But at least PA still allows private sales of long arms. 2. Yes. No semi-auto rifles for hunting. An annoyance that no one has ever bothered to challenge. 3. A regulation that does not have the force of law. Since most of the PA State Ranges are unattended, it's more of a suggestion. There is no criminal penalty attached, though they can ask you to leave. I don't know where AR15fan is from, since he doesn't list a state in his profile, but I guarantee you that PA is better for firearms owners than any of its contiguous states, especially if the three items you list were the worst things you could come up with. Or were you just trolling?
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:49:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By DavidC: It's time for all you folks to pack up and move to PA. Class III allowed. Shall issue CCW. Beautiful countryside. Lots of places to shoot. Decent land prices in most of the state. Economy in good shape; lots of jobs. Most morons (and crime) isolated in two places (Philadelphia and Pittsburgh). Move in on and we'll make PA an even better placed to live [:)]
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Not to mention the mob owns the road system and is milking the state govt for all it's worth! Those roads seem to always be under construction! [:)] Look at Virginia too if you want all that stuff.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:52:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By robbyd:
Originally Posted By DavidC: It's time for all you folks to pack up and move to PA. Class III allowed. Shall issue CCW. Beautiful countryside. Lots of places to shoot. Decent land prices in most of the state. Economy in good shape; lots of jobs. Most morons (and crime) isolated in two places (Philadelphia and Pittsburgh). Move in on and we'll make PA an even better placed to live [:)]
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Not to mention the mob owns the road system and is milking the state govt for all it's worth! Those roads seem to always be under construction! [:)] Look at Virginia too if you want all that stuff.
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Huh? The reason our roads suck is that we pay only 2.8% state tax. How much is it in Va.?
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 6:20:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 6:21:48 PM EST by robbyd]
Originally Posted By gus:
Originally Posted By robbyd:
Originally Posted By DavidC: It's time for all you folks to pack up and move to PA. Class III allowed. Shall issue CCW. Beautiful countryside. Lots of places to shoot. Decent land prices in most of the state. Economy in good shape; lots of jobs. Most morons (and crime) isolated in two places (Philadelphia and Pittsburgh). Move in on and we'll make PA an even better placed to live [:)]
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Not to mention the mob owns the road system and is milking the state govt for all it's worth! Those roads seem to always be under construction! [:)] Look at Virginia too if you want all that stuff.
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Huh? The reason our roads suck is that we pay only 2.8% state tax. How much is it in Va.?
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Yes, but look at states like Flordia and Texas. I believe they both have no state tax (not 100% sure) and their roads seem to be fine. However, you guys have the added factor of winter weather, which coming from NY I can understand how hard that can be on roads. VA is 5% I believe, I live in NC usually which is 7 or 7.5%. Still nothing to the federal tax. [BD] (well, taxes suck in the first place but I don't think I'm the first one to say that.)
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 6:38:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By DavidC: It's time for all you folks to pack up and move to PA. (snip) Shall issue CCW. (snip) Most morons (and crime) isolated in two places (Philadelphia and Pittsburgh).
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Aaaaand....it is in exactly those two places a PA CCW is considered invalid. That's right, the only places in the state where one really NEEDS to carry concealed. [rolleyes] At least the misbegotten MA CCW (LTC-A, ALP) is good everywhere here in the MSSR* *Massachusetts Soviet Socialist Respublik, tovarischtch! ---------------------------------- "What is this, Wonka, some kind of funhouse?!" "Why? Are you having fun?"
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 6:41:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
Originally Posted By DavidC: It's time for all you folks to pack up and move to PA. (snip) Shall issue CCW. (snip) Most morons (and crime) isolated in two places (Philadelphia and Pittsburgh).
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Aaaaand....it is in exactly those two places a PA CCW is considered invalid. That's right, the only places in the state where one really NEEDS to carry concealed. [rolleyes] At least the misbegotten MA CCW (LTC-A, ALP) is good everywhere here in the MSSR* *Massachusetts Soviet Socialist Respublik, tovarischtch! ---------------------------------- "What is this, Wonka, some kind of funhouse?!" "Why? Are you having fun?"
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You are dead wrong. In fact, the state constitution has been ammended to disallow any town, community, county or other local govt. from over-riding the state laws. You can carry in downtown Philly all you want. It was once the way you described, but no more.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 6:42:03 PM EST
Please don't lump Ohio in with those other states. Although no CCW (yet), Ohio is actually NOT a bad place for gun owners. Certainly much much better than NY and NJ.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 6:45:33 PM EST
95thfoot wrote: Aaaaand....it is in exactly those two places a PA CCW is considered invalid. That's right, the only places in the state where one really NEEDS to carry concealed.
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Nope that is completely untrue. There is no pre-emption of state law regarding CCW anywhere in the state. There are also no restrictions where one may carry, other than in a courthouse, where they are required, by law, to provide secure storage for CCW holders. There is no law that allows business to post a "no firearms" sign that has force of law. There is even an affirmative defence to carrying on school property, but I wouldn't volunteer to be the test case for that. Philadelphia keeps trying to get exemptions made for "cities of the first class", of which Philadelphia is the only one, by statute, in the state. They keep failing.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 6:48:51 PM EST
If things go right I might just be on my way. I have another semester of school in NY, but it looks like I may have a job lined here in the Binghamton area and many people make the short commute to Pennsltucky. Crazy to think I can drive just 15 min. and be in FA (free America).
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 6:49:59 PM EST
PA is the most gun friendly states in the area. I love it ! Alse David_C it is illegal to load more then 3 rounds at state owned ranges. The one I used to goto before I joined a private range had game wardens come one time, collect everybody's driver's licsences and he gave us all a 5 minute speach about how he could give us all tickets. He said it is a $100 fine. I thing the only reason he did'nt give us all tickets is bec he did'nt have enough paper (there was like 20 guys - all shooting over 3 rounds at a time). Besides this minor fact PA is a gun friendly state and I recomend it to anyone. It is illegal to hunt with semi-auto rifles, but big f__king deal. If you can't hit a deer with the first shot you ain't hitting it anyway.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:00:15 PM EST
DavidC, Philadelphia and Pittsburg are the only class one cities in PA. Up until OcT of 1995 Cities of the first class were allowed to keep their citizens from getting a lic to carry (even though it was perfectly legal for citzens from elsewhere in the state who had carry permits to carry their guns into Philly and Pittspurg). Once they changed the law, I got my carry permit. Another thing Philly is not all that dangerous. Just another big city getting a bad wrap.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:14:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 7:19:33 PM EST by DavidC]
Gunman - Pittsburgh is not a city of the first class. [b]Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes[/b] MUNICIPALITIES (TITLE 53) CHAPTER 1. IN GENERAL § 101. Purpose of classification; division into classes. For the purposes of legislation regulating their municipal affairs, the exercise of certain corporate powers, and having respect to the number, character, powers, and duties of certain officers thereof, the cities now in existence and those hereafter created in this Commonwealth shall be divided into four classes: Those containing a population of one million or over shall constitute first class. Those containing a population of two hundred and fifty thousand and under one million shall constitute the second class. The population of Pittsburgh according to the 1990 census was 369,879 And regarding the Game Commission Range 3-round limit, I believe it is a Game Comission regulation. I've never seen a cite from the criminal statutes that make it an offense to load more than 3 rounds. There is a difference between a criminal offense and a civil one. I am not, however, a lawyer. Also, it wasn't that cities of the first class could choose not to issue CCW permits; Philadelphia has always done it, you just needed to know somebody. Act 17, which passed in 1995, made the state shall-issue in regards to CCW (and did some bad things, too), and since there is no local pre-emption, places that didn't like to issue CCW, were forced to comply with state law. I used to live in the city, just off 4th & South. I never had any problems, but then, I'm pretty scary myself. [;)]
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:22:44 PM EST
DavidC, You may be right about Pittsburg non being a 1st class city. I asure you that if a LEO catches you shooting more than 3 rounds at a time at a state owned gun range you WILL be fined. I don't care if you think that there is no "statute" against it, it says right there at the range that you can't load more than 3 rounds.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:27:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 7:34:14 PM EST by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By SWS: Please don't lump Ohio in with those other states. Although no CCW (yet), Ohio is actually NOT a bad place for gun owners.
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Other than no CCW, about the only bad thing about Ohio gun laws is any semi-auto firearm loaded with more than 31 rounds is a "machine gun" by default and subject to all the same restrictions. Takes the fun out of Beta Cmag ownership. BTW: Does Ohio have a state preemption law? Or can liberal strongholds like cincy pass their own restrictive laws, above and beyond state law?
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:30:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By DavidC:
I guarantee you that PA is better for firearms owners than any of its contiguous states, especially if the three items you list were the worst things you could come up with. Or were you just trolling?
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Trolling? No, I was filling in some of the blanks you left out. Since this is [b]AR15.com[/b] I think PA's silly ban on hunting with semi autos is a relevant issue.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:39:48 PM EST
AR15fan, You've got to be nuts if you think not being able to hunt with a semiauto rifle is a reason to not move to PA. Like I said before - if you can't hit a deer with the first shot, you ain't hitting it. You are allowed to hunt with semiauto shotguns if that makes you feel any better.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:46:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:56:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: AR15fan, You've got to be nuts if you think not being able to hunt with a semiauto rifle is a reason to not move to PA. .
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I enjoy shooting groundhogs with my AR15 type rifles.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 8:08:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan: BTW: Does Ohio have a state preemption law?
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No. Ohio doesn't have a preemption law. Cities like Cleveland and Toledo have already "banned" certain types of evil firearms. (I put banned in "" because I have no idea how they actually enforce those laws. Plus, do you really want to live within the city limits of Cleveland or Toledo anyhow? [;)]) Ohio does have: 1.) Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. (This will test the legality of current anti-CCW laws in court very shortly.) 2.) No registration or licensing schemes. 3.) No restrictions on intra-state private sales. 4.) No purchase limits. 5.) No LEO permission needed for gun purchase. 6.) No magazine bans, other than federal statutes. 7.) A prohibition on hunting with center-fire rifles. (Shotgun, handgun, black powder is OK.) In fact, one Cleveland TV station recenty ran a piece on how easy it was to straw purchase guns in Ohio and export them to other, more restrictive states. I didn't say Ohio was perfect, but we could be a whole lot worse.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 8:15:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2002 8:59:45 AM EST by Philadelphia_GunMan]
Ar15_fan. If you consider shooting rodents "hunting" then maybe PA is better off without you. Here in PA we hunt REAL animals - deer, bear, and turkey. Shit when I was a boy, I shot plenty of squirels and chipmunks wiht a BB gun. I never considered that hunting - just target practice. THen again I was a boy at the time.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 8:29:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: Here in PA we hunt REAL animals - deer, beer, and turkey.
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You do realise that Gore won PA dont you? That's becuase all the PA "hunters" dont think the democrrats would ever take their beloved bolt actions. What I remember most about PA is toll roads, strip mines and rusted out steel factories. If you must live in the east, move to Vermont.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 8:44:47 PM EST
Ar-15 fan, Gore only won PA bec of all the stinking liberals in Philly and Pittsburg. I voted for Bush. As for nothing but toll roads and strip mines, maybe if you got off the turnpike you'd see more of what we have to offer. What state are you from anyway?
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 11:18:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 11:26:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 12:29:58 AM EST
PECHINS
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 2:04:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan: You do realise that Gore won PA dont you? That's becuase all the PA "hunters" dont think the democrrats would ever take their beloved bolt actions. What I remember most about PA is toll roads, strip mines and rusted out steel factories. If you must live in the east, move to Vermont.
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Vermont???? Sure they DO have the best gun laws, but what else do they have? Snow? I mean, are there really jobs there? If all you remember about Pa. is toll roads, rusted out factories, and strip mines, I'd say you've never done anything more than one drive though. It's not our fault you took the Turnpike. Most of us locals can read a map. It's OK if you don't want to live here. We'll get along just fine without....
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 2:32:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By BlackandGreen: I LIVE in chau. county.....but wouldn`t mind moving to pa...........
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RIPLEY ROD AND GUN GLUB!! We eat lunch every day at the world famous Meeder's!
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:46:19 AM EST
Try buying a Class III weapon in Philadelphia. I think Erie was the other 1st class city. I have to agree the biggest problem with PA is the boltgunners. They'd sell us out in a heartbeat. Pa has the distinction of having the highest number of NRA members and hunters and Gore still won the state. Unfortunately, the Labor Unions have more power over the working class boltgunners than the NRA. Those boltgunners don't realize that when they're done with the assault rifle crowd they will be looking to get rid of thier sniper rifles next. Finally, Our highways really suck! But, except for the Turnpike they're all free.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:55:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: DavidC, You may be right about Pittsburg non being a 1st class city. I asure you that if a LEO catches you shooting more than 3 rounds at a time at a state owned gun range you WILL be fined. I don't care if you think that there is no "statute" against it, it says right there at the range that you can't load more than 3 rounds.
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Its like getting pulled over for speading, you may or may not get a fine....
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:14:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:54:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By CounterStrike: If things go right I might just be on my way. I have another semester of school in NY, but it looks like I may have a job lined here in the Binghamton area and many people make the short commute to Pennsltucky. Crazy to think I can drive just 15 min. and be in FA (free America).
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Know any of the Wilson clan?
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 7:01:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: Here in PA we hunt REAL animals - deer,[u] beer [/u], and turkey.
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I LIKE THAT BEER HUNTING! WHOOOHOOOOO I'm pretty good at it too, considering my ever increasing spare tire.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 7:07:43 AM EST
PA sounds alot like NH. We also hunt moose. NH the only state in the North East that went for Bush. We could use some more help fighting off the liberals that surround us.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 7:11:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
Originally Posted By BenDover: I got family that lives over the border in North East, PA. Little tiny town and it is so awesome being close to Chatauqua County for all the vineyards on the wine trail. Beautiful country up there and the family has a bed and breakfast that overlooks Erie 5 miles from the shore. On a clear day you can see the power plant on the Canadian side of the lake.
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I LIVE in chau. county.....but wouldn`t mind moving to pa...........
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Hey! I used to live in Chautauqua County, left in 1988. I lived in Busti. Ever hear of it? Though it was pretty.. way too cold, and way too much snow, and difficult to get handguns. Did you get much snow this last storm?
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 7:13:08 AM EST
Like Gus, i am a refugee from the People's Democratic Republic of Maryland. This is an incredibly gun-friendly state, even Mrs Ops got her carry permit b/c I like to carry a S&W in the truck. What I like about Pa: Gun friendly, low taxes, affordable real estate, neat and clean towns and cities. I don't like: Un-professional professionals, too many fat chicks, unfriendly and ill-mannered locals, and the worst highways in the US. Jobs ARE plentiful, the hunting is GREAT, and it is a rare day that goes by without hearing gunfire. I wish i moved here 20 years ago. Hey Art, Gus, and DavidC, when ya gonna stop by and shott up some paper? I'm sorta immobile for a while...
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 9:02:42 AM EST
Princeton, I agree that our biggest problem in PA is the bolt gunners.
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