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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 12/31/2001 3:46:43 AM EDT
Stumbled on this article and wanted to know if there are any here who share his opinion. Given that FOX news has ceased it's 4 part series at the 3rd part on Israeli spying and possible prior knowledge of 9/11/01, my reading as of late has been frought will all manner of these kinds of articles, and seperating the BS from the truth has not been easy. This guy, while expressing views I find disturbing does make some sense and I am interested in your opinions..... [url]http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/GOF110A.html[/url] (OneReallyConfused)Mike
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:55:25 AM EDT
I couldn't read to the end. Same old bullshit I have seen before. Not worth the time.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:36:57 AM EDT
Sorry but a "[b]not reading to the end[/b]" opinion is not what I'm interested in. Seems nowdays one has to trudge through all manner of crap to get to the truth, while the article is long there are several points which appear on the surface to have validity. Still hoping for a meaningful comment/critique on this. Mike
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:01:40 AM EDT
Hi Mr. Wilson, I think the article is great. Of course it contains nothing new from the view of gun nut people like they are here on the board (me included) but in my opinion it is great that those differences are communicated to the "normal" people (those 99,9% that know nothing about weapons :-) ) that they think about it the next time they watch armed men (and women) in warfare areas.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:23:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 6:40:17 AM EDT by LARRYG]
Mr. Wilson, do you agree with this guy. This just sounds like more total leftist BS. By his own admission, he identifies with the left, probably a gun grabber. From his ideas, he is way out there to the left. His leftist ideas make me question his claims of military service. He repeats the same stupid claims that GW is less than intelligent. He also compares 9/11 to the old leftist crap about Pearl Harbor. For those on this board who repeat that stuff about Pearl Harbor, yes, it originated on the left, not the right, so why are you repeating it? He uses Nazi titles for certain Cabinet members. Apparently, he would rather Gore had won. Mr. Wilson, do you share that wish? This article is just more left wing crap from a left wing nut. They way they spell "centre" makes me think that this group is not based in this country. He also talk about viewing this from a position of "moral and politically neutrality". Sounds like Berkeley, ie, cowardice. He also sounds like he is advocating an overthrow of the government:
It's for all these reason, I say emphatically that we can not accept anything from this administration; not their policies nor their bullshit stories. What they are doing is very, very dangerous, and the time to fight back against them, openly, is right now, before they can consolidate their power and their agenda. Once they have done that, our job becomes much more difficult
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He was apparently willing to accept anything from the Clinton administration, upon whose shoulders he places no blame. He was very quiet and apparently willing to allow the left to take away our Second Amendment rights, but now he is espousing all kinds of crap about Americans losing their rights. He made no call to openly fight back against the Clinton administration. Where was this alleged ex-military man when Clinton was doing his damdest to take away our guns? Fuck this guy and anyone who believes his extreme leftist crap, for they are leftist also, and as he supports Clinton/Gore, so must they.
The left, if it has the capacity to self-organize out of its oblivion, needs to understand its critical roles here. We have to play the role of credible, hard-working, and non-sectarian partners in a broader peace-movement. We have to study, synthesize, and describe our current historical conjuncture. And we have to prepare leadership for the decisive conflict that will emerge to first defeat fascism then take political power
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First he talks about a peace movement, then he seems to be saying if the left can't win at the polls, then take power by force. Again, a violent overthrow of the government. On the one hand he sounds like a coward, then on the other hand he sounds like a violent radical. I think some people in this country need to read this article to realize that right wing extremeists are not the only ones advocating force to take over the government. The media only highlights the right wing groups when this subject is brought up, but here is a perfect example of someone on the left just outright saying it and it seems to be being advocated from outside the country. This guy is just another John Walker, except worse. I think some of his remarks are downright treasonous.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:30:22 AM EDT
And now we know why people discount an enlisted mans opinion. He's a leftist jackass, who likes all the great things that capitilism gives America, but thinks there is some behind-the-scenes power house at Shell and GM pulling the strings to run the world. Moron. Leftest. (oops, I repeat myself) WL
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:33:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 6:34:49 AM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By ultima-ratio: Hi Mr. Wilson, I think the article is great. Of course it contains nothing new from the view of gun nut people like they are here on the board (me included) but in my opinion it is great that those differences are communicated to the "normal" people (those 99,9% that know nothing about weapons :-) ) that they think about it the next time they watch armed men (and women) in warfare areas.
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Did you read the same article I did? This is written by a left wing extremeist, of whom there are very few on this board. This guy is not a gun nut, nor is his opinion shared by most on this board. This is written by someone who obviously loves Clinton/Gore and places no blame on them for what happened. He is most likely a gun grabber, who, after his proposed overthrow occurs and the leftist government is installed would then confiscate guns from everyone, including those who helped in his overthrow. This article was not about the men and women fighting for our country, but about left wing extremeist ideas about why we should be doing nothing, which is one of the major contributors to 9/11, the lack of retaliation by the previous left wing President. It is more Berkeleyesque crap. Sometimes it amazing how the far left and the far right sound so much alike and actually seem to agree with each other with each end wanting to overthrow the government to install their brand of extremeism. Some far right people on this board read far left crap about 9/11 and Pearl Harbor and just think it's great. All the Pearl Harbor crap (FDR knew it was coming, blah, blah) originated on the left, folks, not the right. Then again, maybe there are more far left people on this board than I realize.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:37:03 AM EDT
I wonder if someone could clear up one point at least... do master sergeants get to teach at West Point, as the author claims? Seems to me a college degree would be required, which would likely make the man an officer. I've heard this all before too. The real problem is that the counter claims are not "news-worthy" and you will not likely see them in print.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:42:31 AM EDT
I think he puts out some plausible THEORIES that should be discussed. Like how have they rolled out this Afghanistan offensive so quickly? How did these Arab mental midgets execute the flying of the plane into the pentagon, executing flying maneuvers only seasoned pilots could execute, when they received training ONLY on crop dusters and flight simulators? (inserting my thoughts) Given our gov't willingness to SLUAGHTER 59,000 of its own, recently enshrined on a black wall, I'm willing to entertain "conspiracy theories" that enter teh realm of the unthinkable. However, I beleive the author also marginalizes himself with unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric and downright RUDENESS. So, here's my advice mr_wilson - Put this one away, in the memory banks, for future consideration. I don't beleive he makes a strong enuf case to modify your opinion, but the info he provides MAY prove useful later on. (Disclaimer: I only scanned the article, and did not give it a full and entire reading.)
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:42:54 AM EDT
A bitter, bile filled rant, if ever there was one. He was all over the map, whining about "Daddy", Bush's intelligence, the election, etc. Note his over-use of the word "I". That should tell you something. He's very bitter about the relationship between officers and enlisted. I smell an axe grinding...
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:44:46 AM EDT
BS, by a self-proclaimed Leftie, disgruntled about the elections. It has conspiracy theory written all over it. His military credentials don't matter a fig. You don't have to read the details. The bottom line is that he believes and tries to provide "proof" that the US blew-up its own WTC. I can never, never believe this.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:47:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: Still hoping for a meaningful comment/critique on this. Mike
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[b]"Same old bullshit I have seen before." [/b] That is as meaningful a critique as I could possibly give. [:D]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:51:47 AM EDT
[b]", he would rather Gore had won. Mr. Wilson, do you share that wish?[/b] I voted for Bush, and agree with your opinion of his leftist views, I stated up front "while expressing views I find disturbing", I was more impressed with his observations like: [b]The BBC was recently told by Niaz Naik, a Pakistani Foreign Secretary, that senior American officials were warning them as early as mid-July that military action for mid-October was being planned for Afghanistan.[/b] I read a bit earlier in June/July 2001 at Janes Defense Weekly about this. And this: [b]As a former military person who's been involved in the development of countless operations orders over the years, I can tell you that this was a very sophisticated and costly enterprise that would have left what we call a huge "signature". In other words, it would be very hard to effectively conceal.[/b] Seems to make sense to me. And here: [b]Four planes get hijacked and deviate from their flight plans, all the while on FAA radar. The planes are all hijacked between 7:45 and 8:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time. Who is notified? This is an event already that is unprecedented. But the President is not notified and going to a Florida elementary school to hear children read. By around 8:15 AM, it should be very apparent that something is terribly wrong. The President is glad-handing teachers. By 8:45, when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes into the World Trade Center, Bush is settling in with children for his photo ops at Booker Elementary. Four planes have obviously been hijacked simultaneously, an event never before seen in history, and one has just dived into the worlds best know twin towers, and still no one notifies the nominal Commander in Chief. No one has apparently scrambled any Air Force interceptors either. [/b] There is alot of info out there about our lack of response. As I said don't necessarily agree with him (especially politically) totally, but seems he did point out some interesting aspects which the media has ignored. Thanks for your view, Mike
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:53:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 6:54:51 AM EDT by Garmentless]
I've got news for him...the Supreme Court did NOT decide the last election. It simply stated, that yes, FL's laws were not unconstitutional. Next, This Leftist bastard lists all kinds of socialist countries. Why doesn't he move to one of those "paradises" and leave us the F@ck alone? I'd just like to know what he plans on doing when/if himself and half the population is unemployed and freezing from a lack of that evil corporate oil. I'll bet he would whine and cry that it's a conspiracy and the Evil Corporations really have more oil and just won't give it up for some mysterious reason. You know, I got my last job from a corporation. He's a jackass and need to shut his f@cking pie-hole. You really have to wonder how these people function at all. [>:/] [edited to fix my cute little smiley]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:58:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Carbine_Man: BS, by a self-proclaimed Leftie, disgruntled about the elections. It has conspiracy theory written all over it. The bottom line is that he believes and tries to provide "proof" that the US blew-up its own WTC. I can never, never believe this.
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C_M - I don't beleive you have the right mindset here. Consider what our "own gov't" did to our own boys in VietNam. 59,000 dead. In comparison, the attack on the WTC was "only" 3,000 dead. From strictly a number standpoint, its NOT a stretch. That said, I DO NOT beleive he makes his case. And he is definitely a BITTER leftist STILL obsessing about the election. he shows his hand quite clearly. But the part of your post that struck me was "I can never never beleive this." granted, if EVERYONE in our gov't were as patriotic as you, your statement would be plausible. But I am CONVINCED not everyone in our gov't is even as patriotic as Alec Baldwin (which ain't very) I am CONVINCED there are elected officials in our gov't that would WELCOME the destruction of America as we know it, bringing us to the level of the other countries of the world. They HATE that America is the BEST nation in the world. And they would do most anything to bring her down. The mere existence of the present day UN is strong evidence of this mentality within our own gov't (and more relevantly, the power structure in the US today). Yes, it is DISGUSTING to think about even the POSSIBILITY that "we" did this to us. But when you see what "we" did to our own in Viet Nam, personally, I CANNOT rule out the possibility without considering the evidence. Again, I REPEAT that THIS guy is a bitter, hateful leftie. But even THOSE people are capable of an occasional tidbit of truth. Just open your mind to the possibility. It was the unwillingness to consider the unthinkable that got the Titanic sunk.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:58:19 AM EDT
There's no point in disecting his entire essay. It has no merit. He has very little insight. He overstates his "credentials" as a means to support his argument. He's just a bitter guy who hates Bush, and wants people's attention. Sad.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:59:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 7:02:09 AM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By garandman: I think he puts out some plausible THEORIES that should be discussed. Like how have they rolled out this Afghanistan offensive so quickly? How did these Arab mental midgets execute the flying of the plane into the pentagon, executing flying maneuvers only seasoned pilots could execute, when they received training ONLY on crop dusters and flight simulators? (inserting my thoughts) Given our gov't willingness to SLUAGHTER 59,000 of its own, recently enshrined on a black wall, I'm willing to entertain "conspiracy theories" that enter teh realm of the unthinkable. However, I beleive the author also marginalizes himself with unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric and downright RUDENESS. So, here's my advice mr_wilson - Put this one away, in the memory banks, for future consideration. I don't beleive he makes a strong enuf case to modify your opinion, but the info he provides MAY prove useful later on. (Disclaimer: I only scanned the article, and did not give it a full and entire reading.)
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Like I said, it is amazing how the far right and the far left agree. I don't think that Vietnam was a "government conspiracy", we just weren't allowed to go all out. If it was a conspiracy, it was the Dems doing it (the left), not the right.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:06:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: Like I said, it is amazing how the far right and the far left agree.
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Uhhh, which one am I - far right, or far left??? [rolleyes]
I don't think that Vietnam was a "government conspiracy", we just weren't allowed to go all out. If it was a conspiracy, it was the Dems doing it (the left), not the right.
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VietNam was NOT proof of a conspiracy. But it IS proof of what just a VERY FEW individuals with anti-American sentiments within the US power structure (read: Democrats) can do to damage America.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:09:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 7:11:39 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
There are people that are so hungry for anti-Bush/anti-Gov't rhetoric, that they will disregard the validity of the source. If Janet Reno said something very insightful and thought provoking, regarding the 2nd Ammendment, would you use the quote to support a pro RKBA argument? Of course not. Even if an idiot or an enemy manages to say something true (or in many cases, something you WISH was true), you must ignore it. Because if you provide validity for a source once, you become partially responsible for the perceived validity of anything that comes from that source in the future. It may also be part of a larger campaign of disinformation. What if you believe and support most of what this loser is saying, and then the next thing out of his mouth is something about how the Zionists faked the Moon landing, or that the Martians control the Federal Reserve? The company you keep....
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:09:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:14:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: I found most of "his" opinions were the same old Democratic press crap. Bush is a president of "limited intelligence" - if I recall the definition of "limited" that would fit nearly all of us. He mentions the tired old crap about how that voters who failed to follow the law were "disenfranchised" yet military voters who did follow the law had the government fail to stamp their envelopes (due to a government law) yet they weren't even mentioned - strange from a former enlisted man. ???
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Yup. He's not even a SMART leftist. If he really wanted to have his opinion considered objectively, he would have omitted this horse crap, or at least saved it till the end. Once I read that, and saw all the factual errors he crammed into the first couple of paragraphs, I HAVE TO take teh rest of his rant with a grain of salt. On teh other hand, it was unwillingness to consider the unthinkable that got the Titanic sank.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:15:05 AM EDT
I'm not here to flame you, just point out some things. I don't have time to point out all the many flaws in that opion piece, but I will attempt to address your concerns.
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: [b]The BBC was recently told by Niaz Naik, a Pakistani Foreign Secretary, that senior American officials were warning them as early as mid-July that military action for mid-October was being planned for Afghanistan.[/b] I read a bit earlier in June/July 2001 at Janes Defense Weekly about this.
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Did it ever occur to you, that in light of Khobar Towers, the USS Cole, Bin Laden's videos, etc, ETC, that [i]maybe[/i] we had a clue that he needed to be taken out?
And this: [b]As a former military person who's been involved in the development of countless operations orders over the years, I can tell you that this was a very sophisticated and costly enterprise that would have left what we call a huge "signature". In other words, it would be very hard to effectively conceal.[/b] Seems to make sense to me.
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That makes sense how? Why would it be so difficult to conceal that? Thousands and thousands fly every day. Think they know who each one is? Millions of illegal aliens are in this country using forged identification to work. You think they couldn't hop on a plane? Hundreds of countries have air forces and commercial airlines to draw highjackers from. Why would this be so hard to conceal? Can you list ANY group that is prohibeted from taking a plane in this country? How would you stop them, even if you knew?
And here: [b]Four planes get hijacked and deviate from their flight plans, all the while on FAA radar. The planes are all hijacked between 7:45 and 8:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time. Who is notified? This is an event already that is unprecedented. But the President is not notified and going to a Florida elementary school to hear children read. By around 8:15 AM, it should be very apparent that something is terribly wrong. The President is glad-handing teachers. By 8:45, when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes into the World Trade Center, Bush is settling in with children for his photo ops at Booker Elementary. Four planes have obviously been hijacked simultaneously, an event never before seen in history, and one has just dived into the worlds best know twin towers, and still no one notifies the nominal Commander in Chief. No one has apparently scrambled any Air Force interceptors either. [/b] There is alot of info out there about our lack of response. As I said don't necessarily agree with him (especially politically) totally, but seems he did point out some interesting aspects which the media has ignored. Thanks for your view, Mike
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Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:15:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: I found most of "his" opinions were the same old Democratic press crap. Bush is a president of "limited intelligence" - if I recall the definition of "limited" that would fit nearly all of us. He mentions the tired old crap about how that voters who failed to follow the law were "disenfranchised" yet military voters who did follow the law had the government fail to stamp their envelopes (due to a government law) yet they weren't even mentioned - strange from a former enlisted man. ???
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Yup. He's not even a SMART leftist. If he really wanted to have his opinion considered objectively, he would have omitted this horse crap, or at least saved it till the end. Once I read that, and saw all the factual errors he crammed into the first couple of paragraphs, I HAVE TO take teh rest of his rant with a grain of salt. On teh other hand, it was unwillingness to consider the unthinkable that got the Titanic sank.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:15:52 AM EDT
continued.... How long do you think it takes those planes to get from point A to point B at over 600 mph? You see a plane going off course, and you radio them asking what the hell they are doing. At what point do you quit trying to contact them and conclude they have been highjacked? In less than 30 minutes they've already covered 300 mile! You call the AirForce and say "I think we have a Highjacking". How long does the Colonel grill you first? How long does it take the Colonel to contact even one pilot? You think he might have to drive to base first? Maybe put on a flight suit? How long does it take to move that jet out and get clearance? How long does it take the fighter to decide that the planes are going to be ditched and you have to decide where to down them to do less damage than the damage that you still don't know they are going to do? Oh, BTW, I DO remember that jets got scrambled that day. But, of course, it was too late. We are talking about humans here and physical reality. Maybe when we develop prescience we'll be able to stop things like that.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:17:25 AM EDT
Not interested in starting a whizzin' contest here, just I happened to catch the final installment on Brit Hume of Fox News, believe it was on the 20th of Dec. Was forced to go to their website to get info on their first two installments, now those are gone from Fox website and all at Fow appear to be ducking for cover. Really miffed me that according to:[b] CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The company is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm, with offices throughout the U.S. It provides wiretapping equipment for law enforcement. Here's how wiretapping works in the U.S. Every time you make a call, it passes through the nation's elaborate network of switchers and routers run by the phone companies. Custom computers and software, made by companies like Comverse, are tied into that network to intercept, record and store the wiretapped calls, and at the same time transmit them to investigators.[/b] And continuing on to end with: [b]Adding to the suspicions is the fact that in Israel, Comverse works closely with the Israeli government, and under special programs, gets reimbursed for up to 50 percent of its research and development costs by the Israeli Ministry of Industry and Trade. But investigators within the DEA, INS and FBI have all told Fox News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying through Comverse is considered career suicide.[/b] This Israeli spying and possible prior knowledge of 9/11/01 launched me into some very strange web-sites and articles, this being one of them. Thanks for posting, Mike
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:18:32 AM EDT
You'd think a military guy (especially a teacher) would know how to spell "Knots". (It's not "nauts [rolleyes])
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:21:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 7:22:23 AM EDT by Garmentless]
Originally Posted By Paul: Same old Democratic BS.. Bush is a president of "limited intelligence" -
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Al Gore flunked out of Grad School, Bush got his degree!
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:24:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 7:27:00 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By garandman: It was the unwillingness to consider the unthinkable that got the Titanic sunk.
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Now dammit garandman, it's one thing to watch you duel for days with a hunk of "processed" cheese but I've got to make the "bullshit" call on this deal. You no more believe in this Leftist crap than you believe in the arguments of "fake Cheese." And by the way, it was the search for "vain glory (The crossing record), unthinkably poor seamanship, an inferior ship design and an iceburg" that caused the sinking of the Titanic. The"unthinkable" didn't have doodly-squat (a techno term) to do with the sinking of that ship. [smoke]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:41:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 8:02:38 PM EDT by prk]
This guy Stan Hoff refers to a "teach-in" which was a topic here back in September. He is only furthering his left-wing agenda. The thread may be too old to locate, but here is an article that started it. [url]http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/guestcolumnists/oswell09-21-01.htm[/url] Also try these links (haven't got the time to test them): [url]http://www.unc.edu/news/gaz/teachin.html [/url] [url]http://www.unc.edu/depts/pfn/[/url]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:56:12 AM EDT
This guy makes absolutely zero sense to me. It appears this guy is a typical liberal democrat who is basically still steamed because Al Gore lost the election by mere hundreds of votes. Lesson to those folks who says "my vote doesn't count," should have a word with Al.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 8:42:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: You no more believe in this Leftist crap than you believe in the arguments of "fake Cheese."
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leftists crap....fake cheese....leftist crap....fake cheese..... How does one tell the difference????[}:D]
And by the way, it was the search for "vain glory (The crossing record), unthinkably poor seamanship, an inferior ship design and an iceburg" that caused the sinking of the Titanic. The"unthinkable" didn't have doodly-squat (a techno term) to do with the sinking of that ship. [smoke]
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Now don't go gettin' all "techno" on me.....[:D] I seems to 'member teh Titanic being billed as "unsinkable." Now, if they had been willing to consider the "unthinkable (i.e. maybe it CAN sink) then maybe I'd be booking a room on it fer New Years Eve. Kno what ah mean Vern?????
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 8:47:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: leftists crap....fake cheese....leftist crap....fake cheese..... How does one tell the difference????[}:D] "You make my point." I seems to 'member' the Titanic being billed as "unsinkable." "Yeah, yeah, yeah and Jane Fonda is billed as a loyal American. And you don't believe that crap either." Kno what ah mean Vern?????
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Vern - out.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:02:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: "Yeah, yeah, yeah and Jane Fonda is billed as a loyal American. And you don't believe that crap either." Kno what ah mean Vern?????
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Vern - out.
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Was it, or was it not AT THE TIME billed as "unsinkable?" This is an honest question. If indeed it was billed as unsinkable, it would seem her captain and owners beleived some of their own press, and ran her as if she were unsinkable. To my point, they were unwilling to consider the unthinkable. And look where it got them - and worse, where it got us. We had to endure that awful movie with Leonardo DiCaprio. [:D] Honestly, I didn't hink I was makin' a controversial statement. You KNOW how I always shy away from controversy.[BD]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:20:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Was it, or was it not AT THE TIME billed as "unsinkable?" This is an honest question. (Yes, the Titanic was billed as unsinkable. Pablum for the public - propoganda by the owners for an increased share of the crossing bidness. Few ship's designers or sailors then or now believe anything is unsinkable.) ------------------------------------------- If indeed it was billed as unsinkable, it would seem her captain and owners beleived some of their own press, and ran her as if she were unsinkable. (Neither believed their own press. The captain was this trip from retirement and the owner (Director(?)) on board only wanted the crossing record for more market (especially the high-end) share. The captain abdicated his responsibilities and allowed the owner-clown to effectively direct ships operations. The Captain went down with his ship and he damn sure should have. The Director survived and he damn sure shouldn't have. ----------------------------------------------- Honestly, I didn't hink I was makin' a controversial statement. You KNOW how I always shy away from controversy.[BD]
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The only thing controversial about your statement was your "hint" that you actually believed this guy's crap. That I don't believe for a second ! [smoke]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:24:32 AM EDT
#1 this guy doesn't know shit about ATC #2 He is conveniantly ignoring the mess that passed as Klinton's foreign affairs policies. old Billy Boy was to busy stroking his cigar & getting in bed with the Chinese to concern himself with Islamic Terrorists!
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:30:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: The only thing controversial about your statement was your "hint" that you actually believed this guy's crap. That I don't believe for a second ! [smoke]
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Well, for clarities sake, I DO NOT beleive anything this guy says. He shows his obvious bias VERY early on. He is anti-Bush, and this is probably just his way of taking shots at Bush. (Heck, half the guys on THIS board take what are IMO unfounded shots at Bush and Ashcroft) My point is this - Given what "OUR gov't" did to 59,000 of our best and brightest, can we ANYMORE, EVER AGAIN dismiss out of hand what evil "our gov't" is capable of??? I can't. So I'll listen to what he has to say, and then consider the source. Even a blind Democrap pig can stumble across the occasional acorn.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:40:43 AM EDT
All blind, Democrap pigs are now on government assistance and no longer eat acorns.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:42:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: All blind, Democrap pigs are now on government assistance and no longer eat acorns.
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LOL!!!!!! Hey - what can you expect from a guy who uses "an old but reliable firearm?" (And argues with fake, processed cheese???) My guns are out of date, and so am I. [BD]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 9:50:53 AM EDT
[smoke]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 11:38:24 AM EDT
Here´s a thread from SOCNET about Stan Goff [url]http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2021[/url]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 12:33:26 PM EDT
This guy's on to it: ".... I hear GH Bush is going to clone dinosaurs, compress their bodies like making a Cubic Ziconia and get endless quantities of oil. Yeah, and it will be cheaper cause its not really oil, but it looks the same only shinier and more sparkly."
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 1:15:17 PM EDT
Some of his arguments are worth pondering, but it [i]does[/i] have a left wing flavor to it, particularly as you read to the end. He concludes:
"...We are not faced with a choice between socialism and capitalism, but socialism or barbarism..."
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Really? Is this the only choice we have? OK. I'll take barbarism. I might make a pretty good barbarian. Then I'll go out hunting for socialists to eat. Anyone up for a socialist hunt? I bet 62 gr. green tips will be more than sufficient. How did Conan respond when asked what was good? I can't remember the words, but I remember agreeing with it[:D]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 1:44:43 PM EDT
[B]Garandman - How did these Arab mental midgets execute the flying of the plane into the pentagon, executing flying maneuvers only seasoned pilots could execute, when they received training ONLY on crop dusters and flight simulators?[/B] after talking with my father who is a pilot it is very easy to fly those planes as they did. In order to fly a plane(meaning just in mid flight not take off or landings) you must know only 3 things. Where the flight yoke is, where the throttle is and where the altimader is. Differences in controls and size take only minimal time to adjust to. They didn't need to know how to land them all the needed to know is what to basically look for. Simple as that. R4M
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 1:47:54 PM EDT
Try this on for size, Stan Goff fans... [url]http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2001-02-14/triangles2.html[/url] This guy's a real piece of work. Here's my favorite quote:
"I ended up being responsible for a thousand square kilometers and like half a million people. I was like a military dictator. I used that power--for the time that I had it, which was very brief--to reverse the civil-military relationship on the ground and also to allow the popular organizations to take some measure of control. "I had made up my mind when I went down to Haiti that I was going to do the right thing this time, come hell or high water," Goff says. He admits that he was often unsure of just what the right thing was. But years of creeping doubts about his role in enforcing U.S. foreign policy, combined with the ugly prospect of abetting repression in Haiti, had at least convinced him of what was wrong.
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How this clown rose to MSgt is scarier than any of his disconnected rantings. He complains about GWB's level of intelligence, but Goff's diarrheal articles betray his lack of sophistication with respect to his understanding of foreign policy, and political science for that matter. Heh.
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