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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 12/29/2001 9:05:55 AM EDT
I may have to make a couple of trips up to New York in the comming years. One to see the old Yankee stadium and then another one when the new one opens. I may live in Texas, but I've always been a Yankee fan. [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20011228/capt.1009582520nyc_stadiums_xnyr510.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:10:31 AM EDT
Are they planning on taking down the old Yankee stadium?
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:11:14 AM EDT
And now for a "pool" to guess if the cost-over runs will total to be 2X or 3X the original cost estimates. This year I'm an Arizona "RedBack" fan. [:D]
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:13:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:16:09 AM EDT
NYC can think of a lot better uses for the citizen's money, especially lately. Didn't NYC just get a chunk of $12 billion in "relief" money? Looks like the US taxpayer pays for NYC follies, again.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:21:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: NYC can think of a lot better uses for the citizen's money, especially lately. Didn't NYC just get a chunk of $12 billion in "relief" money? Looks like the US taxpayer pays for NYC follies, again.
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Like what, rebuilding the twin towers? I would be willing to bet that just as many people are employed to keep a couple of ballparks running as what worked at the trade center. It's all a big business, and businesses aren't out there to practice losing money. Sports generates huge revenues that gets spread out over thousands of different businesses. A good/popular sports team is something that is good for any cities economy.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:30:20 AM EDT
Ponyboy, When it comes to taxpayer funded ballparks, NYC is proving that there are, indeed, suckers born every minute. EVERY city uses the economic impact argument to con/steal the citizens money to build monuments - no, TEMPLES, to whiny crybaby athletes. However, no city has ever provided the economic plan that bears this out. Anybody with basic math knows this is a joke. Cities want ballparks and stadiums so they can keep their teams for BRAGGING RIGHTS. Nothing more. If it were economically viable, the owners would build their own ballparks. However, equity would force the owners to stay in the cities where they build their ballparks, so that's a NO GO. If you want an example of how it's done, check out Tony Hullman's Indianapolis Motor Speedway (heard of it?). He runs that thing by HIMSELF, without one dime of taxpayer money, and he turns a profit. NYC could use the $12 billion to relieve/repair the damage to its economy caused by 9/11, and I can support that. However, building a $800 million stadium for EACH team is a joke, and the US taxpayer ought to wake up and run these clowns out of town.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:32:33 AM EDT
Wow! It would be cool for the Diamondbacks to win another Series in another new stadium!
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:37:24 AM EDT
Let's hear it for the Diamondbacks. I can remember EVERY NYC-based sportswriter saying the the DBs didn't have a chance. Perhaps the Yankees can offer to buy all the DBs key players, and maybe they can get the penant back.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:39:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2001 9:41:17 AM EDT by Hannah_Reitsch]
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: Sports generates huge revenues that gets spread out over thousands of different businesses. A good/popular sports team is something that is good for any cities economy.
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Actually, here in Denver, we got stuck with the tab for the new Bronco's stadium, after a veiled threat to move the team, and a well financed ad campaign before the vote. *We* pay for the new Mile High stadium, Pat Bowlen, Canadian owner of the Broncos, gets the stadium and land, all the parking, all the concessions, and all rights to all team merchandise, in short, every dime that this place generates. The taxpayers merely get the bill. ALL the profit goes to this guy that doesn't even pay taxes in the US. Bowlen accepted a huge sum for the "naming rights", from Invesco Corp, but didnt even have to apply it to the debt that we the taxpayers are carrying. In return for this waste of money boondoggle, capacity is almost identical, except now Bowlen has more high dollar suites to sell. All ticket prices went up, and Bowlen now refuses to fulfill his promise to make the place available for local do-gooder events either, without charging exorbitant fees. In short, no one makes any money from this white elephant except Bowlen. There is NO collateral profit to Denver from the new stadium, ALL the money goes to the Canadian. The new Mile High stadium is nothing more than a black hole to *suck* money out of Denver, not to share any with their loyal city and fans. They have taken the "rah-rah" fan mentality, and found a way to screw the citizens yet one more time. Bread and circuses, bah!
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:42:52 AM EDT
"Bread and circuses". A reference to the days of the Coliseum and the Gladiators? Wasn't that line used in "Gladiator"?
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:45:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2001 9:46:51 AM EDT by Hannah_Reitsch]
It was a term coined by a despotic Roman emperor, when asked how he would keep the civilians happy and preoccupied, while he looted the Treasury and stole all their rights. Just like today :) Ball games, MTV, and Pizza Hut, and the people will be pacified.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:47:02 AM EDT
You aren't really looking at the big picture. Think about the number of people that have a job because of the Yankees. You've got the janitors, grounds crew, painters, food vendors, people working the little shops, people selling programs, parking attendants, then you have the people who make the hotdogs, beer, cups, straws, caps, jerseys, programs/other literature, then there are the truck drivers who deliver the beer, cab drivers, hotels that rent out rooms for people who come to see the Yanks, restaraunts those people eat at, outside shops where they buy stuff and the list can go on and on ad naseum. Then here is the kicker for the city, every single little thing I mentioned above is taxed and all of the money the people made is spent on stuff that is taxed. I would be willing to bet that the old Yankee stadium has paid for itself 10,000 fold in city taxes alone over its lifetime. If you still don't think a major sports team is a good investment for the city then that's fine, but I think there are quite a few prosperous cities that would disagree with you.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:52:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: ..janitors, grounds crew, painters, food vendors, people working the little shops, people selling programs, parking attendants, then you have the people who make the hotdogs, beer, cups, straws, caps, jerseys, programs/other literature....
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Looks like mostly minimum wage slave labor jobs to me. And if there really is no other reason to visit NYC than to watch a ballgame, wow, that place must have changed! I would hope your hotels and taxi drivers would have a steadier source of income than just servicing baseball fans. All sounds like rah-rah hype to me.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 9:52:25 AM EDT
Prosperous cities, yet. Prosperous stadiums ,no. The money goes to the owners and the people who build the stadiums, while the taxpayer foots the bill. Prosperous cities can afford the stadiums, because they have the tax base to leech off of. If NYC wasn't NYC, they wouldn't have the $$$ to build the thing. I think you're putting the cart before the horse.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 10:12:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2001 10:15:15 AM EDT by Hunduh]
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: NYC can think of a lot better uses for the citizen's money, especially lately. Didn't NYC just get a chunk of $12 billion in "relief" money? Looks like the US taxpayer pays for NYC follies, again.
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First of all, where did it say that the stadium money was coming from the federal relief fund? I would like you to show us all where you read that, or did you just make it up? Second of all, NEW YORKERS DONT WANT A NEW STADIUM. With the exception of the diehard Yankees fans, NYC knows that OUR (READ: NYC TAXPAYERS) tax money is better spent elsewhere. These stadiums are just another example of RUDY GUILIANI imposing his will upon the people of New York. When Rudy sets his mind to something, God himself cant stop that little tyrant. Rudy has always wanted to build a new Yankee Stadium, and it has always been shot down. But now that he's leaving in 2 days, he's gonna sneak it in as his last act. So before you bash "New York" (and I am NO fan of NYC) know what you are talking about. Steven
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 10:18:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Looks like mostly minimum wage slave labor jobs to me. And if there really is no other reason to visit NYC than to watch a ballgame, wow, that place must have changed! I would hope your hotels and taxi drivers would have a steadier source of income than just servicing baseball fans. All sounds like rah-rah hype to me.
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So it would be better for them to have no job than a minimum wage job?
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 10:19:31 AM EDT
As a matter of fact, the NYPD and the FDNY have been working without a contract now for 19 months. Before that we had 3 percent raises. Do the math. Guiliani saysd that the city is bankrupt and has fought us tooth and nail to avoid giving us a raise. Our new mayor, Bloomberg has already told us that we are going to have to tighten our belts. No raise from him either. $400 week doenst cut it in NYC. So much for our the treatment of the "Heros" of 9-11. Im glad we can afford these new stadiums though.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 10:20:10 AM EDT
Funny...they have the money to build a new stadium but what about giving a raise to the cops? This $350 a week salary isn't getting me anywhere.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 10:23:37 AM EDT
Of course, the question the rest of America wants answered: Are they going to build this one in New Jersey too?[;D]
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 10:30:40 AM EDT
Hundah, I never said that the money was coming from the relief fund (which is private, anyway) OR from the $12 Billion that our government just handed Schumer and Hillary. Quote me, if I did. But, if you send your reps to congress with their hands out, you should be wise enough to question $800 million PER STADIUM. And, I never said that New Yorkers wanted a new stadium. Line nearly everywhere else, it's a handful of owners and builders who want the stadiums. Back in the Clinton Era, if you spoke the truth, you were "bashing" or using the "politics" of personal destruction. You've learned well.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 10:45:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2001 10:47:44 AM EDT by Hunduh]
Once again, my friend, you are talking out of your ass. I am as conservative, and as ANTI-Clinton as they come. I did not put HER in office, the liberals put her there. She kissed the ass of every minority group and every special interest group to get elected. In case you didnt realize it, WE dont control what our representatives do. They are SUPPOSED to represent us, but they rarely do. The Clintons will most definitely go down in history as the most corrupt, most incompetent first family ever. All you guys from around the USA should be thankful that she is in NYC politics. That keeps her out of YOUR state. She's our problem, not yours.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 11:56:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Waverunner: Funny...they have the money to build a new stadium but what about giving a raise to the cops? This $350 a week salary isn't getting me anywhere.
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Ahhh $1400 a month is salary for an NYC cop? I would look for a new line of work or move.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 12:26:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hunduh: All you guys from around the USA should be thankful that she is in NYC politics. That keeps her out of YOUR state. She's our problem, not yours.
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hitlery was elected to the senate.. that means she is EVERYONES problem for the next 6 years.. she may have been electedd by the shi*heads in NYC but let me tell you, noone i know in the state area voted for her. SHE DOES NOT REPRESENT ME............. i will escape from NY, to a free state, and that bi*ch can kiss my arse.....
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 12:50:54 PM EDT
Hannah Reitsch is *spot on*. That same kind of horsesh1t happened a few years ago here in Tampa Bay when the new carpetbaggers (Glazers) bought the team and threatened to move if the city didn't tear down the old stadium and build them a new one. The hilarious thing is that the old one wasn't even paid for yet when they tore it down. Idiots. Even better is that the football fanboys in the area gladly passed new taxes on every single resident of Hillsborough county for the next 30 years to pay for this monument to spoiled athletes and avaricious owners. The same tired arguments were trotted out about how great the economic impact was going to be and how many jobs were going to be created...blah blah blah. They were so damned cheap that they actually asked fans to come work on the landscaping for free before the thing opened. How's that for creating jobs? Same deal with the owners having control over every single thing that goes on in and around the stadium, they get a percentage of everything even though the taxpayers are the ones footing the bill. What was wrong with the old stadium? Not enough luxury boxes and it was too big for them to reliably sell out, so TV revenues were lower. The only good thing to come out of it is the fact that I live in Pinellas county and don't have to support it. Sounds like the same kind of snake-oil sale is going on in New York. Idiots.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 2:39:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2001 2:52:07 PM EDT by BigZ]
It's a scam! The stadium produces a couple of hundred low wage jobs that pay little or no income tax. There won't be any new jobs other than temporary construction workers. The people who have jobs now will just be working in a nicer environment. A stadium, unless it's multi purpose, is barely used other than the 100 games per year. This is a better deal. Let the city and teams split building costs 50/50. City gets 50% of Stadium's Baseball Revenue until it's paid off. City gets 100% of Stadium non-Baseball related revenue until it's paid off. Both share 50/50 in operating costs until it's paid. After which the teams can own it and pay all operating expenses. And they must agree to play their games in Stadium for 20yrs after the city recoups it's money. All the while they pay their fair share of taxes, No Breaks. Better yet, Let the teams issue bonds like any other business can. Offer a nice interest rate and I'm sure you'll find enough dopey Met & Yankee fans to raise the money. Edited to add: [b]The Feds should take back their 2 Billion of relief money if these stadiums get approved.[/b]
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 2:43:08 PM EDT
Let George build his own stadium.
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