The Army Combat Uniform ... The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Army Combat Uniform ... The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly (Page 2 of 5)

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:10:40 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Let me start by saying I've never worn the ACU. I like the concept but understand the problem with the pattern. The ABU is worse. Horrible pattern, excessively heavy fabric (so as to make it permanent-press), and poorly designed. It seems the Air Force decided it needed "to keep up with the Jones's" and create their own unique utility uniform. They succeded, and we despise it.

My hometown is home to a couple air force bases, so I see AF guys in the new ABU all the time. Every opportunity I get, I ask their opinion of the new uniforms.

So far, the results are unanimous: they suck. Every one says they're too heavy and don't breathe at all, some say they're too fragile along the seams, and several dislike the pattern.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:27:48 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ya know… Something bugs me about the military.

Back when I was playing paintball and making minimum wage I had several colors of camouflage for different environments. No one pattern can possibly work in all environments, at least it won’t work as well as a pattern specifically tailored to that environment. And we are talking cloth here, it’s not that expensive. The military spends billions on other stuff and won’t shell out a little money on things like this.

Well… I guess it will cut down on friendly fire since no one else would wear anything that looks like the ACU into combat, at least it’s got that going for it.

Might as well go back to white trousers and red wool uniforms.

Stupid Velcro, oh talking about the pattern...must have been a nightmare.

The French went off to war in 1914 with machine guns and breech loading cannons...wearing pantalons rouge . It did not take long to make the switch to horizon bleu .

Yet we chose this. It does not hide anything anywhere. Maybe I am just bitter...bitter about a ass ventilation system in my crotch.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:29:24 AM EDT

[#3]

The boots are the only improvements made with the ACU or ABU patterns - although it's still asinine for the AF to stop allowing the wear of polished black boots as well. The only possible good thing that could have come of the ACU pattern is if every one of the uniforms were donated to the Air Force, and the Army went with a different pattern altogether, that actually possessed the color brown somewhere in it.

It's become readily apparent at all levels that the ACU pattern, and aspects of the uniform design that were ill devised should have never escaped Natick, and that the Army's top end organization has become thoroughly resistant to input from those actually wearing the uniform in combat. All this, only to be followed up by the M4 dust tests... the Army has shown its' weakness - not in combat arms or fighting forces, but in its ability to provide those forces with weapons, logistics, doctrine, and publicity support they really need in order to prosecute a long war.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:34:35 AM EDT

[#4]

Aparently people must really like the old DCUs 'cause none of my marpat stuff I had for sale in the EE sold.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:42:43 AM EDT

[#5]

In Iraq, Marines, SEALs and DELTA wear MARPAT FROG.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:44:11 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Aparently people must really like the old DCUs 'cause none of my marpat stuff I had for sale in the EE sold.

dont issue marine cammies have the EGL on them, making them unavailable for wear to civilians?

I love DCU's, I have a shitload of them. I am pissed that I have had to buy equipment in three different patterns, and I havent been in all that long. i have three full sets of CIF issue in all three patterns as well.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:47:20 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
In Iraq, Marines, SEALs and DELTA wear MARPAT FROG.

Same in AFG, except they also wore a TRUSPEC version of the MCCUUs.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:50:06 AM EDT

[#8]

I never had any problems sneaking around and playing pranks on people when wearing Woodland BDU's as a teenager... I think the ACU's colors are entirely too light.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:50:59 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I hate the colors, the velcro for patches are a great idea but not sensible.
badges that pin on are stupid as hell. I dont know how many times i have lost a backing(damn it) and stabbed the shit out of my chest or ribs. I like the pocket locations. The whole idea was for the uniform to be cheaper for the soldier. I have spent more money buying more patches, and badges than i did for the BDU's.

I think MultiCam would have been a more viable option. Plus I think it looks more professional.

The point of the pin-on raccoon-bait was to get you to stop wearing it with your duty uniform (eg 'Badges are for Class As only).... Personally, since I *don't* wear mine on the ACU (and the units I've been with - being Aviation (FOD) - don't have a case of the ass about it), that doesn't bug me...

While some unit commands apparently didn't 'get' this.... That's beside the point...

IMHO, the ACU itself (ignoring the colors) works just fine... I actually had more trouble with summer-weight BDUs ripping....

The absolutely *NO* starching, pressing, ironing or boot polishing allowed here rule is a refreshing bit of common sense...

Button closures were just stupid, too - 'Excuse me, but does someone have a trademark on zippers, or is the Army just stuck in the early 30s when it comes to clothing design'....

Colors? They tried to get a *universal* pattern, and the result is pretty predictable for any 'jack of all trades' project... That said, once the uniform gets wet/dirty, it does blend in better....

The *STUPID* part is the guys who think it's supposed to be bright, bright white, and bleach the whole damn thing (including the boots) because it 'looks better' (forgetting the whole 'It's supposed to look 'worked in', if we wanted you to look pretty you'd be in As' thing)...

Posted: 1/3/2009 10:02:08 AM EDT

[#10]

Why do people insist on posting pics of how bad ACU's are by showing pics of them at about 5 feet away. At the distances most of these pics are ALL of them stand out or at least will be seen. I'd like to see comparison pics of ACU's in iraq from a reasonable fighting distance.

The pics i've seen from the war look like they work pretty well. I also thought the primary focus was for night? In an urban enviroment (which is where we WILL be fighting for the foreseeable future) no camo is going to be perfect.

Posted: 1/3/2009 10:11:57 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
The boots are the only improvements made with the ACU or ABU patterns - although it's still asinine for the AF to stop allowing the wear of polished black boots as well.

The entire concept of polished black boots was asinine to begin with....

Most of the AF folks I know have one chief complaint about the ABU - 'Desk weenies designed it to look good in the office'....

Allowing boot polishing would have done only one thing: further enhanced that gripe (very legitimately)...

It's logical for a service to design their uniforms around their primary 'operational' function....

For the Army, that would be combat arms....

For the AF, that would be aircraft maintenance. & operations....

And polished boots + flight line -> one giant pain in the ass, with zero benefits...

Posted: 1/3/2009 10:12:15 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I think our MARPATS got it right. The one thing about the ACU's I envy is how lightweight they are. MARPAT uniforms are heavy and really suck in hot or humid climates until you get then broken in so they breathe better. My deserts are basically white but at least they finally breathe.

Man, when I officially made the switch over to the Marine Corps, showed up at OCS, and was issued MARPAT cammies, my first question was: "Ummm...do we get summer weight cammies too, or are those all going to the sand box?"

Them:

The desert ones are summer, the woodland ones are winter!

Me:

I was really shocked. They really ought to make a summer weight and winter weight, like the old BDUs.

-Ben

Posted: 1/3/2009 10:17:36 AM EDT

[#13]

When I was inprocessing at Fort Lewis the SSG that was in charge of us had these weird ACUs on. They had buttons on some of the pockets, the IR tab was sewn onto the little strap that normally covers it on the underside. They looked alot more durabable although from a distance they looked the same. He said his unit was issued them to try them out, he didnt say if the army was switching to them. It was still ACU pattern, but at least the uniform was better designed.

Posted: 1/3/2009 10:27:59 AM EDT

[#14]

the MARPAT pants are made of a heavier weight material than the shirt (for both the woodland and dessert). they did a study during development that showed that the pants wore out 3x faster than shirt so they went with a more durable material. Crye uses the same heavy weight material for their Multicam pants

Quoted:

Quoted:

I think our MARPATS got it right. The one thing about the ACU's I envy is how lightweight they are. MARPAT uniforms are heavy and really suck in hot or humid climates until you get then broken in so they breathe better. My deserts are basically white but at least they finally breathe.

Man, when I officially made the switch over to the Marine Corps, showed up at OCS, and was issued MARPAT cammies, my first question was: "Ummm...do we get summer weight cammies too, or are those all going to the sand box?"

Them:

The desert ones are summer, the woodland ones are winter!

Me:

I was really shocked. They really ought to make a summer weight and winter weight, like the old BDUs.
-Ben

Posted: 1/3/2009 10:34:28 AM EDT

[#15]

While Multicam may be great for most terrain in our current engagements, I hardly think it's universal - like coyote, it seems to stand out in dark woodland areas.

Posted: 1/3/2009 10:38:41 AM EDT

[#16]

anyone know if they can get their hands on some of the digi camo nomex? FROG if i remember right. i tried looking last summer but no one could get their hands on it. i just want a pair of the pants.

Posted: 1/3/2009 10:44:18 AM EDT

[#17]

MU ROTC Paintball STX late Sept or early Oct 08

Im wearing Multicam (instead of ACU) because I cannot contract thru ROTC (too old) and have not been reenlisted yet (work in progress) I will only wear ACU's when the CO, LTC Horne says I can (ROTC functions).

Rotary Park, Huntington WV.

Walking away to reset because I had been hit

I have 2 sets of Multicam in the ACU style of uniform.
The Proppers are winter weight, the Tru-Spec are lightweight.

Posted: 1/3/2009 11:03:02 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
When I was inprocessing at Fort Lewis the SSG that was in charge of us had these weird ACUs on. They had buttons on some of the pockets, the IR tab was sewn onto the little strap that normally covers it on the underside. They looked alot more durabable although from a distance they looked the same. He said his unit was issued them to try them out, he didnt say if the army was switching to them. It was still ACU pattern, but at least the uniform was better designed.

There are several variants out there:

1) Standard ACU

2) 'Ground' Flame-Resistant ACU, including 'ACU-sleeved T-shirt' variant...

3) Aviation ACU (2-piece Nomex)

etc...

Posted: 1/3/2009 11:52:02 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
While Multicam may be great for most terrain in our current engagements, I hardly think it's universal - like coyote, it seems to stand out in dark woodland areas.

I think the military should adopt three camo patterns: a universal camo (like Multicam) to be issued to everyone, a dedicated woodland pattern to be issued only in the event of deployment to that type of terrain, and a dedicated desert pattern.

Posted: 1/3/2009 12:41:53 PM EDT

[#20]

More of the same, here. Most of the soldiers I've spoken with do not speak favorably about the ACU's. However, I'd rather have them than the ABU's I was issued. Hell, the ABU's were intended to be battle ready outside the wire uniforms. They gave me flight suits to wear here.
One advantage is the pen slot in the pants. They were thinking of the flightline guys

The ABU's have about three variations in color. There is the green hue and the gray hue which are most prominent. The color is similar to the ACU. I wonder if it was chosen since it is similar to the ACU.

I just wonder what the Navy is going to switch too

Posted: 1/3/2009 2:13:50 PM EDT

[#21]

someone had posted earlier that the army had developed the digital pattern then the Marines adopted it. Here is a quote from the MARPAT patent which was filed by the USMC...

After extensive laboratory analysis and
testing, a variation of the CADPAT pattern, empirically modified by the
artistic interpretation and visual experience of well trained and
seasoned Marine Corps Scout Snipers was selected and designated as
MARPAT (Marine Corps Pattern.)

Posted: 1/3/2009 2:16:17 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

ACU blends in with my mother's couch and not much else.

You rang?

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l234/cmjohnson65/hidden.jpg

You knows we was all waitin for it...!

Posted: 1/3/2009 2:48:35 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
someone had posted earlier that the army had developed the digital pattern then the Marines adopted it. Here is a quote from the MARPAT patent which was filed by the USMC...

After extensive laboratory analysis andtesting, a variation of the CADPAT pattern, empirically modified by theartistic interpretation and visual experience of well trained andseasoned Marine Corps Scout Snipers was selected and designated asMARPAT (Marine Corps Pattern.)

Do you have a link to the patent info; what I have read was this:

The MARPAT patent lists US Army research into fractal pattern camouflage as the basis for MARPAT

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:00:02 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Aparently people must really like the old DCUs 'cause none of my marpat stuff I had for sale in the EE sold.

dont issue marine cammies have the EGL on them, making them unavailable for wear to civilians?

I love DCU's, I have a shitload of them. I am pissed that I have had to buy equipment in three different patterns, and I havent been in all that long. i have three full sets of CIF issue in all three patterns as well.

I don't think they are, but a good question. I am replacing a bunch of boot issue cammies and putting more into my SHTF stash.

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:04:34 PM EDT

[#25]

here you go...http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F6805957

it sounds like youre thinking of the Dual-Tex camo mentioned in the Prior Art section. It was vehicle camo delveloped in the 70's

Quoted:

Quoted:

someone had posted earlier that the army had developed the digital pattern then the Marines adopted it. Here is a quote from the MARPAT patent which was filed by the USMC...

After extensive laboratory analysis andtesting, a variation of the CADPAT pattern, empirically modified by theartistic interpretation and visual experience of well trained andseasoned Marine Corps Scout Snipers was selected and designated asMARPAT (Marine Corps Pattern.)

Do you have a link to the patent info; what I have read was this:

The MARPAT patent lists US Army research into fractal pattern camouflage as the basis for MARPAT

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:05:59 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
MU ROTC Paintball STX late Sept or early Oct 08

Im wearing Multicam (instead of ACU) because I cannot contract thru ROTC (too old) and have not been reenlisted yet (work in progress) I will only wear ACU's when the CO, LTC Horne says I can (ROTC functions).

Rotary Park, Huntington WV.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/chasinsundown/DSC_0078.jpg
Walking away to reset because I had been hit

I have 2 sets of Multicam in the ACU style of uniform.
The Proppers are winter weight, the Tru-Spec are lightweight.

So your wearing MultiCam in that photo?? Looks darker like MARPAT.

To me it seems in the pictures I've seen here and other sites that MultiCam blends better with it's surroundings.

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:33:31 PM EDT

[#27]

Digital Multicam FTW

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:41:01 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
so why does ACU some times look pink?
Has anyone else seen this or is it just me?

I've noticed that too. Maybe fluorescent lighting?

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:42:04 PM EDT

[#29]

My personal favorite is MC, but from the footage I've seen the MARPAT is extremely effective.

ACU is a total joke.

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:43:01 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

ACU blends in with my mother's couch and not much else.

You rang?

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l234/cmjohnson65/hidden.jpg

You've posted that pic a few times in other threads and honestly the first time I did not see you at all in it.

Holy shit! Neither did I until you pointed him out.

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:53:51 PM EDT

[#31]

Posted: 1/3/2009 3:58:19 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Digital Multicam FTW

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn163/3crowns_photos/digitalmulticam.jpg

Hadn't seen that before.

Posted: 1/3/2009 4:12:58 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
all of the funeral escorts I have talked to say they hated the ACU. wore out too fast, velrco sucks, collar sucks, pants split in the crotch too fast.

They did like the boots though.

My personal preference is Woodland BDUs.

I would have killed for boots I did not have to shine when I was in and I mean that literally I would have killed for them. I like the ACUs in therory (not paying a seamstress to sew tabs and tape every time you bought a new set and the pockets look useful) but hey what do I know when I got out we were still sporting BDUs.

Posted: 1/3/2009 4:16:03 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

lol

"Bunny"

Posted: 1/3/2009 4:46:17 PM EDT

[#35]

Absolutely Craptastic Uniform....

Posted: 1/3/2009 5:39:52 PM EDT

[#36]

Jesus Christ the armies one size fits all bullshit is well bullshit. Are they ever going to learn?
Im not in the service anymore and cant comment on these new acus except what ive seen in the photos. But this is so typical. And when the ranks grumble?? "oh yeah they grumbled about M16s! Oh yeah they grumbled about Kevlar helmets! Oh yeah they grumbled about the M9!! They don't know whats good fer'em. WE'll learns'em!" Im no Nazi ok? But the SS developed the best camos way back in 1942, take a look at the patterns today and they almost look like Carpat considering they didn't have computers. Yet the US Army was wearing OD green for another 30 years after that. Even the Vietnamese Tiger stripe was a "wash" (no pun intended.) Woodland? OK, but still inferior to designs from 30 years before.
And now this.

The pattern is not the problem its the typical "one size fits all" mentality.
Desert? Urban? Arctic? Woodland? Its all good! its tacticool! and M-16s are self cleaning........

Posted: 1/3/2009 5:44:07 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
so why does ACU some times look pink?
Has anyone else seen this or is it just me?

Chlorine turns them slightly pink if you don't wash them right away. The uniform gets exposed to chlorine during CWST (combat water survival test).

Posted: 1/3/2009 5:46:14 PM EDT

[#38]

I love the boots, like the pocket pattern, love the low maintenance, would prefer buttons or a zipper over velcro, wish the pattern was a little darker, and wish a few areas would be reinforced. I'm split on the velcro nametape/patch idea; it's convenient, but it's easy to lose nametapes and rank when crawling in the prone.

Side note on the velcro nametape; it provides for great pranks. I'm tempted to have a "shitbag" nametape made and discretely apply to a few cadets' patrol caps whom it applies to.

It would be great if they issued actual under armor as the undershirt, but I understand that that would be very expensive.

Posted: 1/3/2009 8:49:42 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I love the boots, like the pocket pattern, love the low maintenance, would prefer buttons or a zipper over velcro, wish the pattern was a little darker, and wish a few areas would be reinforced. I'm split on the velcro nametape/patch idea; it's convenient, but it's easy to lose nametapes and rank when crawling in the prone.

Side note on the velcro nametape; it provides for great pranks. I'm tempted to have a "shitbag" nametape made and discretely apply to a few cadets' patrol caps whom it applies to.

It would be great if they issued actual under armor as the undershirt, but I understand that that would be very expensive.

Nope. Have one made up that reads "Disaster", and apply to some Maj's uniform blouse. He (or she) may, or may not realize it for awhile....

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:04:13 PM EDT

[#40]

WTF does the Army need all those patches for anyway.

Look at the MCCU. Better off without all the exterior velcro for the patches, and somehow the Marines know who is who.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:11:52 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
WTF does the Army need all those patches for anyway.

Look at the MCCU. Better off without all the exterior velcro for the patches, and somehow the Marines know who is who.

I like having SSI's and combat patches. so when some non-deployed pogue in a tradoc unit starts trying to school me on the rigors of combat and how tough it is out on the force I can shut my brain down a little because i know he is totally full of shit.

Posted: 1/3/2009 9:16:02 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
In Iraq, Marines, SEALs and DELTA wear MARPAT FROG.

The "dudes" we saw had the Crye stuff and the FROG gear, and the one poor guy wore ACU's to blend in with us, they hate ACU's more than AQI I think

Posted: 1/4/2009 9:52:46 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

It would be great if they issued actual under armor as the undershirt, but I understand that that would be very expensive.

Underarmor got banned in theatre due to poor fire-safety....

Posted: 1/4/2009 10:08:49 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

It would be great if they issued actual under armor as the undershirt, but I understand that that would be very expensive.

Underarmor got banned in theatre due to poor fire-safety....

There's not a fire safe model? I thought someone was making fire-safe under armor now?

Posted: 1/5/2009 3:55:42 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Jesus Christ the armies one size fits all bullshit is well bullshit. Are they ever going to learn?
Im not in the service anymore and cant comment on these new acus except what ive seen in the photos. But this is so typical. And when the ranks grumble?? "oh yeah they grumbled about M16s! Oh yeah they grumbled about Kevlar helmets! Oh yeah they grumbled about the M9!! They don't know whats good fer'em. WE'll learns'em!" Im no Nazi ok? But the SS developed the best camos way back in 1942, take a look at the patterns today and they almost look like Carpat considering they didn't have computers. Yet the US Army was wearing OD green for another 30 years after that. Even the Vietnamese Tiger stripe was a "wash" (no pun intended.) Woodland? OK, but still inferior to designs from 30 years before.
And now this.

The pattern is not the problem its the typical "one size fits all" mentality.
Desert? Urban? Arctic? Woodland? Its all good! its tacticool! and M-16s are self cleaning........

They gripe about cost, but IIRC, I had to pay for my "utilities" when in the Marines back in the early 90's. I'm sure the Army, today, is the same way––they tell you what to you need, and you have to pull out your own wallet. Nice to have to only buy one pair for that multi-environment thing, but I'd rather put out some extra cash for a uniform suited to whatever region I may be deployed to.

Multicam was probably the way to go.

Instead, some colorblind group of designers convinced someone important that gray blends will with everything. And then to call it "foliage green" when it's so clearly gray makes me laugh. I'm an artist––I know color. It's gray!

Posted: 1/5/2009 3:57:11 AM EDT

[#46]

I wear ACU's almost everyday, and i definitely agree. I call it 'gravel camo'.

Posted: 1/5/2009 3:59:52 AM EDT

[#47]

i just find it funny that right after the Marine Corps went to MARPAT all the other branches just had to come up with their own pattern.. with the exception of multicam the Marine MARPAT design is by far superior to the ACU

somebody post the guy in the ACU hiding on the floral pattern couch...that shit was funny (nevermind just saw it)

Posted: 1/5/2009 4:02:00 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
WTF does the Army need all those patches for anyway.

Look at the MCCU. Better off without all the exterior velcro for the patches, and somehow the Marines know who is who.

And isn't Velcro a no-no for clandestine operations? I mean, think about it: you're behind enemy line (with Owen Wilson

), an enemy patrol is within earshot––you're using hand signals to communicate with other members of you team, and then you realize you need something in your pocket ... a pocket that is secured with a Velcro (or Hook & Loop) closure.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

Gunfight ensues ...

*Note: it's easier to sew on replacement buttons than it is hook and loop tape. Especially if you suck at sewing.

Posted: 1/5/2009 4:03:18 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
WTF does the Army need all those patches for anyway.

Look at the MCCU. Better off without all the exterior velcro for the patches, and somehow the Marines know who is who.

And isn't Velcro a no-no for clandestine operations? I mean, think about it: you're behind enemy line (with Owen Wilson

), an enemy patrol is within earshot––you're using hand signals to communicate with other members of you team, and then you realize you need something in your pocket ... a pocket that is secured with a Velcro (or Hook & Loop) closure.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

Gunfight ensues ...

*Note: it's easier to sew on replacement buttons than it is hook and loop tape. Especially if you suck at sewing.

Modern warfare rarely includes acting like a ninja.