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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 12/20/2001 1:27:16 PM EDT
Yeah, not jerking your chain, this just happened to me... This morning I went hunting. The place that I hunt is huge, 2000+ acres. When I pulled up to the front gate, I notice another vehicle parked near the entrance. Since there was a heavy frost, I could see that they must have unloaded a 4-wheeler and gone back to the 'creek bottoms' at the back to hunt. Front 3/4ths of the property is pasture, back 1/4th is wooded. We have had some problems lately with unknown hunters (friends who knew a friend, that said it would be ok) hunting on the property. I am hunting there by permission, so it is not my main concern to run anyone else off the property. I just park my truck and put on my hog/duck hunting gear. I was wearing my BDU's, a camo Mossberg over my left shoulder, a dark blue back pack with my hunting gear on my back, a canteen of water on my side, and my Bushmaster carbine across my chest. 30 round USGI loaded. Since I am early, I decide to duck hunt until the unknown hunters leave the bottoms. I have plenty of time, and several ponds to hunt, so it is no big deal. I don't want to go snooping around in the bottoms for a hog and be mistaken for a deer! After about an hour and a half, I have not shot at any ducks (no dog, and I had no desire to go swimming) and I begin making my way across open ground to the opposite side of the property. I plan to hunt a large flood control lake, and maybe another area on the property that might have hogs. I hear a 4-wheeler start up back in the bottoms. I figure the deer hunters would be leaving, and I would sit, rest and wait for their departure and go into the bottoms for my hog hunt. I see the 4-wheeler about 200 yards away, crossing from my right to my left. The closest they will pass is probably 150 yards. I am sitting in medium thick goatweeds (dove weed?) and I figure I might have a chance to shoot any deer or hogs that get flushed by the 4-wheeler noise. I was watching the 4-wheeler and saw two riders. Apparently they saw me at that time as well. The driver stopped, then unslung his rifle and aimed it at me! At this point my brain engaged. I suddenly realized there were a few things that might be happening, all of which could be bad for me. 1. He thinks I am game (deer or hog) 2. He is a hunter and does NOT know that he is AIMING his rifle at me in order to identify who/what he is seeing 3. He is a poacher and sees a witness/game warden 4. He has a drug lab and sees a witness/DEA Agent What do I do now? Yeah it DID happen, I am still fuming! I will post the outcome after you guys have a chance to chew on it. TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:34:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2001 1:29:23 PM EDT by lurker]
make yourself very small, prepare to return fire if fired upon. shout to identify self as non-game. move away.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:36:16 PM EDT
Grab some turf.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:36:33 PM EDT
I would place even money on number 2 He is an idiot who should buy some binos!!
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:39:05 PM EDT
Here in Utah blaze orange clothing is required, (with good reason) for deer hunting. Even then I have had stupid, cheap, SOBs scope me too. Some people don't want to be bothered with binoculars. Dangerous jerks.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:40:56 PM EDT
I would have used my Palm VII to control my hovering weapons platform and have it project holographic images of marauding shriners coming at them from all directions in mini-cars as it rains down automatic .32 ACP APIT fire on them.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:41:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2001 1:35:40 PM EDT by jimmyjoebob]
take cover and yell " shoot achmed shoot" Just kidding, I would definately hit the deck and start yelling, most definately raise your rifle and be prepared to shoot back. I had a similiar incident in Alabama a few years back, some idiot was trepassing to hunt on private land. Pointing a gun at my buddy after he called out "tom"( newbie to hunting, I was 30 yards away) I pointed back and commanded to him hold still and drop the gun. We had a nice chat with the fellow,and told him consider his crappy tree stand gone, and that we would be notifing the sheriff. I wanted to take his rifle as well, but I was in a forgiving mood.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:41:25 PM EDT
Hit the dirt and get ready for a shootout. Tell us what happened man. I hate half the story.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:48:27 PM EDT
I'd hit the deck and make sure that your AR is ready to be fired if need be.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:49:49 PM EDT
shoot, shovel and shutup[}:D] Seriously, find ANYTHING to hide behind and pray bubba isn't a good shot. We've had problems with people seing ducks on our canal 100 yards from the house, hunters wheel in, blast away and then take off. The last time this happened, I heard shots, shot rainging on a tin roof and saw hunters picking up the ducks, I locked the gate behind their truck and called the game warden who lives a couple of miles away. Outcome, 4 hunters loose their license for trespassing, road hunting and using lead shot in a steele shot only season. I HATE irresponsible hunters! idaho-ar15
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 2:00:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 2:00:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stormbringer: I would place even money on number 2 He is an idiot who should buy some binos!!
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Bingo! Two was my bet. I raised my right hand to signal I was NOT GAME. Grabbing turf meant -sudden-furtive-movement- that I felt would cause a jumpy hunter to fire at escaping game. If he was a poacher/Druggie, I was probably going to find out the hard way... [:(] He lowered his rifle and drove off. I was mad, fuming, furious! I thought it might have been a nephew of a friend, and I hoped to see the kid at Christmas and give him a piece of my mind, and a Hunter Safety refresher course! Much to my luck, the guy pulled through an opening in the fence between us and headed my way. Game on! Here is a replay of the conversation. This happened about 9 AM this morning, so it is not verbatim. (Profanity abreviated here, it was NOT in real life) ME: You better buy some GD binoculars and learn to F-ing us them! Don't you EVER point your GD rifle at me again. Stranger: I wasn't pointing it at you, I had you off center in my scope. ME: I don't give a good GD HOW you were pointing it at me. Don't you EVER F-ing point it at me again. Stranger: Well, man, I have been hunting a long time, I wasn't pointing it right at you. ME: Are you not F-ing hearing me? I don't EVER want to see you point your GD rifle anywhere F-ing near me again! Stranger: Sorry, I wasn't going to shoot you. ME: I don't care WHAT you think you were going to do! Stranger: (obviously not getting the point) I wasn't trying to piss you off, I just wanted to know who you were, I have hunted a long time, and I know not to point my rifle at anybody. ME: (exasperated) Then buy some GD Binoculars and learn to F-ing use them! After a continued exchange that followed the same basic theme "Don't point your rifle" followed by Moron's "But I wasn't going to shoot you." We determined we BOTH had permission to hunt the property, we exchanged names, and parted ways. I will say his tone was arrogant, defiant, when I first began my conversation/yelling! He quickly backed down, changed his tone, and apologized. I would bet he still thinks he did nothing wrong. Guy was in his 40's his buddy was probably mid-30's. Both had scoped rifles slung over their backs. Funny part, at one point he was going to unsling his rifle, and 'show' me how he was pointing it, when my hand tightened around my Bushie, he quickly realized that leaving it on his shoulder was a BETTER idea. Never underestimate the power of a cross chest slung Bushmaster with a 30 rounder backing you up. I spoke to my wife about what happened, she decribed the guy as a well known, bully/ass. He was sheepish/apologetic by the time I finished with him. TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 2:06:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 2:09:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mojo: Wrote RedGoat: ----------------------------- Never underestimate the power of a cross chest slung Bushmaster with a 30 rounder backing you up. ------------------------ Especially you know the bump too.
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Mojo! You kill me! You know I can't hit anything but dirt 15 feet in front of me while bumping! Now, if I had that sweet Beta-C of yours...
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 2:12:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 2:15:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mojo: Yeh, but they don't know that.[:D]
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I bet they would have found a new gear in the 4-wheeler if I had ripped off a burst! Of course, with my Two-Round Tactical Bump technique (I have witnesses...), I might have made a good stand of it. TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 2:55:13 PM EDT
Get sub-terranean and wait it out. Prepare to return fire with warning shots if fired upon. Game doesn't usually shoot back. If fired upon, move quickly in a lateral direction fron the original spot in an attempt to find cover. OR Take proactive measures and 'light-up' the 4 wheeler. 2 warning shots high to remove the riders and the rest of a 30 rounder into the center mass of the Jap quad bike. You can never be to careful, really hammer it. Make like a cheesy action movie and have plastic, sparks, ricochet sounds and dirt clods in the air. Just annihilate this 4 wheeler. Leave it with 4 flats and a perforated engine/tranny. Keep the Mossy handy for any retaliatory strikes from the BG's. Hold you ground and reload the Bushy while humming the Battle Hymn of the Republic very loudly. With the recharged Bushy in one hand and the Mossy in the other, stand up suddenly and yell,"fill your hands you son's a bithes", just like the Duke did in True Grit. Charge them, now singing the Marine Corps Hymn at the top of your lungs. As you are running, full-tilt, at them, let the Mossy hang on its sling while you fashion a crude bayonet from your Leatherman and some dental floss. Attach this field expedient bayonet to your Mossberg (unless your Bushmaster has a bayonet lug). Once you are within 100 yards, switch songs to that Green Beret song and while we know that you don't know all of the words, simply scream out the chorus. (screaming) Pin these wings on my sons chest- Make him one of America's best- 100 men will test today- but only three will wear the GREEN BERET As you close with the enemy, remember to reflect on the warrior spirit that brought you here, then just remember the law of the (leatherman) bayonet.... dental floss ain't that strong. Once you are done please remember to police the area for all incriminating evidence and leave your hunting ground cleaner than you found it. UMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......I'm so sorry for that,sometimes the voices in my head gain the upper hand. I can keep them in control most of the time. Do you have a cell phone to be able to call in reinforcements or aircover or a medevac or maybe even Scotty? Please tell the rest of the story....did you die?
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 3:11:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wiggy762: UMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......I'm so sorry for that,sometimes the voices in my head gain the upper hand. I can keep them in control most of the time. Do you have a cell phone to be able to call in reinforcements or aircover or a medevac or maybe even Scotty? Please tell the rest of the story....did you die?
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Now I know why they call you 'Wiggy.' Uhmmm, I posted, so I didn't die, right? The story was in two parts, both have been posted. Loved the John Wayne part! Great movie, great quote! "That's pretty brave talk for a one-eyed fat man!" ... "Well Fill your hands you SOB"
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 3:23:43 PM EDT
Yeah, the other guy should have had binos, BUT: Frankly, spanky, if you were crawling around an area where you [i]knew[/i] there were other hunters, and you [i]didn't[/i] have any blaze, red, or maybe nice paisley clothing on, but instead were humping around in game colored clothing, maybe you should be glad it turned out as well as it did. He [i] might[/i] have been a little more nearsighted or [i] might [/i] have been in a stand and capped your camo ass. NEVER, NEVER assume the other guy is a smart or capable as you believe yourself to be, and NEVER, EVER go into a free fire zone in camo unless you plan on being shot at! Glad it turned out as well as it did for you, though.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 3:47:37 PM EDT
No flame, just curious. Ducks with an AR? -bc
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 3:54:21 PM EDT
He had a Mossberg, and a Bushy. He was wearing cammo, I'd like to see what game has a cammo pelt. "I had you offcenter........" That is real good thinking. I have a freind who has permission to hunt about 250 acres of dormant, partially wooded farmland. He also has a campsite. He often invites me there, even if he won't be there. My rule is if he ain't there I ain't. I am relatively sure the actual land owner wouldn't care........ none the less I don't need trouble. I would suggest wearing orange, it probably doesn't matter to the game just nimrods that think "off-center" turns a rifle scope int a telescope.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 3:59:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BrianCav: No flame, just curious. Ducks with an AR? -bc
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AR was for hogs. Mossberg 500 was for ducks. Nailed a nice wood duck drake, roasted him over a fire for lunch. As for the blaze orange, it is not required. However, from talking to the moron who pointed the rifle, he claimed he was just looking through his scope to 'see who you were.' (see above for a post from Watch-Six that relates) Blaze orange would probably not have prevented the moron from doing this in the first place. Worst part of all, I am almost certain I just lost a good place to hunt. The guy that leases the property for cattle has already been getting tired of all the people going in without permission, 4-wheelers doing donuts in his pasture, hunters letting cows out of enclosed pastures, etc. This will probably just help to make his mind up. The guy that I chewed on is his cousin. Oh well. Too many hunters, no coordination, landowner/leasee getting tired of this kind of stuff happening, rumor already has it that there will be no hunting allowed next year on the land. I am a good hunter, I pick up my shells, I report any down/injured cattle, I drive only on the existing roads, I walk as much as possible, I don't shoot unless I am firing at game. I have been worried for a while that I would be lumped together with the others who were abusing the land. I don't want to be blamed for others wrong doings.[:(] TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:04:39 PM EDT
Although I don't hunt, I spent my time in college at Chico going on hunting trips with my fellow classmates and friends. I enjoy going with them because I'm a shooter and prefer to be with other pro-gun people. However, I have to say that I often noticed that the dumbest, obnoxious guys at the university were always hunters (majority were class-acts though). I have no idea why.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:12:28 PM EDT
TRG, have you called the landowner to let him know what happened? Try to head off any flak from the cousin at the pass. I'm glad you came out okay, partner.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:30:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
Originally Posted By BrianCav: No flame, just curious. Ducks with an AR? -bc
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AR was for hogs. Mossberg 500 was for ducks. Nailed a nice wood duck drake, roasted him over a fire for lunch. As for the blaze orange, it is not required. However, from talking to the moron who pointed the rifle, he claimed he was just looking through his scope to 'see who you were.' (see above for a post from Watch-Six that relates) Blaze orange would probably not have prevented the moron from doing this in the first place. Worst part of all, I am almost certain I just lost a good place to hunt. The guy that leases the property for cattle has already been getting tired of all the people going in without permission, 4-wheelers doing donuts in his pasture, hunters letting cows out of enclosed pastures, etc. This will probably just help to make his mind up. The guy that I chewed on is his cousin. Oh well. Too many hunters, no coordination, landowner/leasee getting tired of this kind of stuff happening, rumor already has it that there will be no hunting allowed next year on the land. I am a good hunter, I pick up my shells, I report any down/injured cattle, I drive only on the existing roads, I walk as much as possible, I don't shoot unless I am firing at game. I have been worried for a while that I would be lumped together with the others who were abusing the land. I don't want to be blamed for others wrong doings.[:(] TheRedGoat
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That will teach me to read a little slower. :)
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 5:29:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: TRG, have you called the landowner to let him know what happened? Try to head off any flak from the cousin at the pass. I'm glad you came out okay, partner.
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Thank you, I am also glad I came out okay. Could have easily been soooo much worse. If the bullets had begun flying... Texas law would have allowed me to shoot him, at the same time, Texas law made his response justified as well. In my eyes, he was potential poacher that threatened deadly force. In his eyes, I was an armed criminal trespasser/poacher. (although his statement to me "I was just looking to see who you were..." would be hard to justify in court.) Therefore he threatened deadly force, without a justification. However, having been threatened by deadly force, I would have been within the law to fire. ALL of that however, would be decided by lawyers, judges, juries, and bank accounts. All the while I would have been in jail, facing charges, and God-Knows what else! I have run it through my mind so many times today. I am glad I did not shoot. He had already been allowed to get the drop on me. There was no cover, and he had already brought a gun to bear. I have now reconsidered my decision to hunt ANY MORE on the property. A similar incident happened about 3 weeks ago at the opening of duck season. I was hunting one end of a pond, when another hunter opened fire at the opposite end. Neither of us had ANY idea the other was present, and both of us thought we were the only one with permission to duck hunt. [:(] Funny, my new bushie was present at that 'two confused hunters' discussion as well. I am going to be at the leaseholder's house for a Christmas dinner on Sunday. I will let him know then, face to face, why I will no longer be hunting on the property, and why I feel he is creating an unsafe situation by telling 10+ (?) people that they are each the 'only one' that has the right to hunt on the property. As for the cousin calling him, I doubt it. Last I heard, the cousin was not supposed to be on the property in the first place. Weird family deal, East-Texas folk are certainly odd. I am certain word will get back to him about the incident, but I doubt it comes directly from the cousin. Let it be a lesson to us all, DO NOT point a weapon at anthing you do not wish to destroy. For what it is worth, I remember looking down at my chest when he pointed the gun at me, wondering how it was going to feel to be shot. My face flushes remembering the feeling. Everything happened at once. His gun came up. I considered it might be the leaseholder's nephew and he was just a kid doing a dumb thing. That even if it was/wasn't the nephew he might think I was a hog. Maybe it was a poacher, and they were going to shoot me? Drug lab, crop planted? Winter crops, huh? What if they thought I was game, should I drop lower in the weeds? Would they think that was a deer/hog hiding/spooked? Where was my nearest cover? Should I fire? they already have me in their sight... I wondered how it would feel... So many things, in a that split second. Very odd day, indeed. TheRedGoat Jarhead, did your friend from ProTac resolve the Titanium bolt problems? Bring him with you, if you would like, the next time your wife drags you to First Monday!
Link Posted: 12/26/2001 2:54:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat: For what it is worth, I remember looking down at my chest when he pointed the gun at me, wondering how it was going to feel to be shot. My face flushes remembering the feeling. Everything happened at once.
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That's exactly how I felt when a friend of my brother pointed his freshly produced tech-9 at my face and pulled the trigger with a stupid grin on his face. Luckily for me and unluckily for him it just went click as there were no rounds in the chamber. I remember thinking to myself when I saw him squeeze the trigger "what next?". What happened next is I crawled straight up his ass and chewed for all I was worth. All he did was laugh and say "It isn't loaded man" and I never did get the point through to him that it didn't matter in the slightest. About two years later that same jackass came up to me and told me that he finally understood why I chewed him the way I did. He had an A/D and put a hole in his roof right by where his head was. He takes this sort of thing a bit more seriously now. If he does it again, I reserve the right to remove him from the gene pool permanently...
Link Posted: 12/26/2001 3:08:31 PM EDT
Personally, if it had been me, the first thing that would have went through my mind is that he thought I was some type of game and was about to shoot me on accident. I would have probably shot off several rounds into the ground in front of me just to let him know that I wasn't an animal, all the while moving quickly or dropping to the ground to get out of his immediate line of fire. I don't think I could have just stood there waiting to receive a bullet.
Link Posted: 12/26/2001 10:26:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2001 9:16:58 AM EDT
That is scary! I don't know what I'd have done...but I agree with the others who say you did the right thing. I'm not so sure I wouldn't have grabbed some dirt and put him in my sights. That bit about the scope is total BS. It's sad but there are dummies out there that are really that careless, arrogant or just plain stupid. Based on what you have said about him...it is a very good thing you had your AR at the ready. It sounds as if you would have been looking at the wrong end of his barrel again had you not been so heavily armed. I can tell you this much...I would have told the landowner/lessee what had happened, along with the local sheriff and then NEVER go back there again. Finally, I would wear orange...just because of morons like him. You dodged one that time.
Link Posted: 12/27/2001 6:24:04 PM EDT
Sorry for the late response. I have been busy over the holidays and have not taken the time to check my thread. I have thought ALOT about what happened and have decided that NOT hunting on the property any further is the appropriate response. It does allow the moron that glassed me to be 'rewarded' for his action by chasing off one other hunter, however. However, if the guy is soooo unsafe to be glassing other hunters, then I do NOT want to be moving slowly through the woods on any property where this guy might be hunting. Any other response that I had taken such as opening fire, would have quickly have lead to an unhappy resolution. If I had opened fire, the other guys had the clear upper hand. TWO Scoped rifles, weapon already pointed, and mobility. I learned alot from the incident. IF this ever happens again, I am still NOT sure what I will do... I will pay more attention to my surroundings AND other hunters. TheRedGoat ps. I am building fence with the lease holder this week as a repayment to the leasholder for allowing me to hunt the property. I will work out details with him about a sub-lease for hunting on other property. I will speak to him about the unsafe conditions that exist when so many hunters are all being told they are the 'only ones' allowed to hunt.
Link Posted: 12/27/2001 7:27:10 PM EDT
let me guess,east texas I too have been "glased" by stupid hunters.Sitting here thinking about it you did the right thing.But in the feild with no time to think about iti would have done diffrent. But that just me.I cut down and burned a 15ft box blind for that same reason!I would tell thelandowner and explain what happened to let him know your side and feelings.Not that it will make any diffrence.But now the landowner knows who is the idiot. sounds like you have a good handle on it.I too would not hunt the land anymore. just my 02 worth.
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