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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 12/9/2001 5:47:51 PM EDT
I just finished the class to be a Certified Instructor for Basic Pistol. Am I the only one?
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 5:54:00 PM EDT
Can you you give me any details about the class, I saw a ad in the local paper and was kinda curious what the deal was with it. Did you just do it for the "kicks" or do you plan on trying to make some money? Thanks -bc
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:00:20 PM EDT
Welcome to the ranks. I have been certified in pistol, rifle and a range safety officer for about 10 years. Our club has a class every couple of months for the public to take a pistol course. It is a good way to raise funds for the club. We furnish all pistols (.22's) and the ammo. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:10:16 PM EDT
I am certified as a pistol instructor and just finished the Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor workshop last weekend. I plan to give the RTBAV seminar thru my department to the public as a community service. The pistol classes are a private endeavor. Good luck with your first class.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:19:29 PM EDT
I am an NRA Certified Instructor in Basic Pistol, Rifle, Personal Protection, and Home Safety. Have been for the last 4 years or so. I teach women and kids to shoot, mostly. Nice to see more shooting teachers here! :)
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 9:01:27 PM EDT
NRA certified RSO Muzzle loading rifle rifle (basic) shotgun (basic)
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:28:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BrianCav: Can you you give me any details about the class, I saw a ad in the local paper and was kinda curious what the deal was with it. Did you just do it for the "kicks" or do you plan on trying to make some money? Thanks -bc
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The instructor's class consists of about 15 hours of classroom time (spread over a Saturday and Sunday for me) plus a very simple marksmanship test: 10 rounds, standing, slow fire, with a .22 pistol at 50 feet on an NRA B-2 (bullseye) target. At the end of the class, there's a written test with 50-some multiple choice, true/false, and short answer questions. The first part of the class covers the basics of instruction: how to organize a class, how to present lessons, how to use visual aids, et cetera. The second part of the class covers the specifics of the Basic Pistol lessons. As to making money with the training... it would be nice, but my main motivation was to get the certification so I could do some "public service" type teaching. I might do a little teaching for pay at my local commercial range if they can use some help.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:30:33 AM EDT
NRA Certified RSO NRA Instructor: Home Firearm Safety Pistol Rifle Shotgun Personal Protection NC Justice Dept Certified Instructor CCW ......Keith
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:54:21 AM EDT
Everything except shotgun.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:59:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 6:16:01 AM EDT
HFS about eight years now.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:53:51 AM EDT
What do you think about the NRA's three rules of gun safety (Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire, Always keep guns unloaded when not in use) versus the four rules as used by Jeff Cooper?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 8:19:08 AM EDT
What do you think about the NRA's three rules of gun safety (Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire, Always keep guns unloaded when not in use) versus the four rules as used by Jeff Cooper?
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I think any comparison would be apples to oranges.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:56:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 10:49:17 AM EDT by Hipower]
Me and Mrs. Hipower are NRA Certified for: First Steps Pistol Personal Protection Home Firearm Safety I feel my experience in the military more than covered the NRA certification for Rifle so I never took the time to get that or the shotgun.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:45:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: What do you think about the NRA's three rules of gun safety (Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire, Always keep guns unloaded when not in use) versus the four rules as used by Jeff Cooper?
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Jeff Cooper's Rules: RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it; e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance. All guns are always loaded - period! This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!" RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:45:47 AM EDT
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger. RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing. SUMMARY Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?****** I find Cooper's rules much more realistic for gun handling for self defnse guns. If you had to keep a gun *always* unloaded when not in use...it would be ineffective as a carry gun. You would have to load and then deal with the BG. But keeping a gun for defense requires a markedly higher level of awareness in gun handling though, more so, than say, someone that only keeps exotic bench rest rifles who would have little reason to keep them loaded at home. For the novice or purely sport shooter, the NRA rules are perfect. But for self defense, Cooper makes a lot more sense to me.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 12:14:32 PM EDT
For the novice or purely sport shooter, the NRA rules are perfect. But for self defense, Cooper makes a lot more sense to me.
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Does it make sense, though, to teach someone one set of rules in their first class, then a different set of rules in their next class? I see difficulties with both the NRA and the Cooper rules on loaded firearms. The NRA rule, for instance, doesn't explicitly warn against carelessness with "unloaded" firearms (the most dangerous kind). It also requires some explanation as to what "use" means. Does it mean being employed in a shooting session? Or does it also mean being kept ready for emergency employment? I also worry about how the NRA rule could be quoted by an anti-gun politician in support of a "safe storage" rule. E.g., Chuck Schumer could say, "This law is just common sense. Even the NRA's own safety rules say that guns must be kept unloaded". The Cooper rule has its own problems. For instance, if a firearm is [b]always[/b] loaded, then how do we clean it? And do we have to keep all of our firearms loaded all the time to comply with the rule? And then there's the problem of applying Rule I in a combat situation. If you have to grab a gun in defense of your life, are you really going to assume that it's loaded without checking it (given sufficient time)?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 12:52:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: Does it make sense, though, to teach someone one set of rules in their first class, then a different set of rules in their next class? ~snip~
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I teach by the book, the NRA way for all basic classes. If I am teaching a more advanced class, such as one for CCW, I tell my students what has been successful for me over the years.....essentially the Cooper, method, long before I had even heard of it.
The NRA rule, for instance, doesn't explicitly warn against carelessness with "unloaded" firearms (the most dangerous kind). It also requires some explanation as to what "use" means. Does it mean being employed in a shooting session? Or does it also mean being kept ready for emergency employment?
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Both the NRA and Cooper teach the need to check all weapons personally, *yourself*. Personal responsibility to ensure that the gun is empty before handling. Until *you yourself* have looked, it is not unloaded. And yes, "in use" can mean loaded for defense.
I also worry about how the NRA rule could be quoted by an anti-gun politician in support of a "safe storage" rule. E.g., Chuck Schumer could say, "This law is just common sense. Even the NRA's own safety rules say that guns must be kept unloaded".
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Yes, unless the use for that gun *is* to be loaded, but I agree, their choice of wording could have been better. The anti's will certainly have a field day misinterpreting that little subtlety.
The Cooper rule has its own problems. For instance, if a firearm is [b]always[/b] loaded, then how do we clean it? And do we have to keep all of our firearms loaded all the time to comply with the rule?
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From Cooper: "If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself." Check it yourself, then clean it.
And then there's the problem of applying Rule I in a combat situation. If you have to grab a gun in defense of your life, are you really going to assume that it's loaded without checking it (given sufficient time)?
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Defense guns are always deliberately left loaded.....that one is easy.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:22:52 PM EDT
I am having an NRA instructor's class in Pistol, Personal Protection Inside the Home, and Home Firearm Safety at my facility in Virginia. I'll be taking the class, too, and understand there is still space available. Any of you in Virginia that are interested, drop me an e-mail (thefoxs@thefoxs.com). We are planning to offer rifle and other classes soon as well. Black Fox
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:27:33 PM EDT
I should also add that I'm not making any money from the class and do not intend to after getting certified. I have a range at my house and have many people over who are shooting for the first time, considering a defensive firearm or aren't used to being observant of the rules. I'm taking the class/certification to be a better host and help others. I would encourage others to consider the same. Black Fox
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:03:33 PM EDT
I did find the class worthwhile. The "how to shoot" part wasn't anything special but the "how to teach" part taught me a lot. The class will make you realize that knowing how to shoot isn't enough; you have to consider logistics, finances, publicity, lesson plans and other factors before you can hold a class. My biggest criticism is that I thought that the theory of marksmanship taught was needlessly complicated. For instance, "breath control" is not a fundamental of marksmanship. I prefer the simpler approach taught by Hickey and Sievers in "Successful Pistol Shooting".
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