User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:15:45 PM EDT
[#1]
First smart thing in this thread so far! |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:17:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Nope, but Darwin and the insurance companies like the UL sticker. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:20:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Another Nanny Stater.  This thread is reminding me of the "How Many Arfcommer's Does it Take to Screw in a Lightbulb?" thread. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:22:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Can you absolutly positivley guarantee that no one in your family will ever try this when you are not home? Can you be sure you will never try it half in the bag during the Superbowl game? Damn Sub, you have lots of good posts.... and I figure you are probably good to go here... but sharing this bogus setup with the armchair guys scares the hell out of me! And seeing how other people support, or think they can get away with your method, really scares me! Just remember, electricity kills and could burn your house down. It might not be worth burning your house down down just so you can brag on ARFCOM that you are the only house in the county with power. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:26:00 PM EDT
[#5]
They hot stick it just before they work on it, but what happens when it gets energized while they are working on it? Dont play roulette with another life. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:28:32 PM EDT
[#6]
I'd be interested to see your Electrical Bonafides, that motivate you to say that above. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:32:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Second wise post in here! |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:34:06 PM EDT
[#8]
I have 36 circuits in my shack and a 9 circuit transfer switch. After the first real outage I had the panel apart and wires spliced together to get more use out of the available power. I said to my self "self, you need to backfeed the panel to make power available to the whole house" which I did. Anyone with a modicum of common sense can manage this. Unfortunately, there are dumb asses...
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:35:43 PM EDT
[#9]
I don't have any "Electrical Bonafides." Never claimed to have any. I am not an armorer either, but I can build an AR. I am not an explosives expert by I reload my own bullets. I get a kick out all the people who are experts who never make mistakes and "are the only people in the room qualified enough to do" whatever. It is electricity folks. Is it dangerous? Yes. Is it deadly? Yes. Have people been working safely for over a century? Yes. The first electrician or other professional to come into this thread and tell me they have never made a mistake I will call a liar. Just because someone is a certified professional doesn't mean they are infallible. Just because someone isn't certified doesn't mean they are incapable idiots either. This is ARFCOM. You have been here long enough to know what that means. There has been lots of good advice in this thread. There has also been a lot of self righteousness in this thread too. It all amuses me. BTW...my nanny stater comment was a reference to the guy who said it was illegal to buy 10 gauge wire. 
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:41:27 PM EDT
[#10]
My bonafidies are 27 yrs in the electrical industy and master electrician for the last 20. Residential, commercial, and industrial work and many calls by the fire marshall for emergency hookups after fires and floods. I make mistakes.... but what I am reading here is not mistakes... its negligence and criminal in some instances. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:52:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Yes, because you need it so badly and can't just use an extension cord. I wont buy that. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:54:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Bottom line..... Subs method works.... it will bail you out of a tight spot.
However, its not the right way to do it and could cause problems. You also need to worry about parallel neutral and grounds and frying electronics with any generator setup. If you have questions ask! The more you think you know about some things the more you may realize you dont know! A little knowledge can be dangerous! |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:54:36 PM EDT
[#13]
I missed that part. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:55:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Can you absolutly positivley guarantee that no one in your family will ever try this when you are not home? Can you be sure you will never try it half in the bag during the Superbowl game? Damn Sub, you have lots of good posts.... and I figure you are probably good to go here... but sharing this bogus setup with the armchair guys scares the hell out of me! And seeing how other people support, or think they can get away with your method, really scares me! Just remember, electricity kills and could burn your house down. It might not be worth burning your house down down just so you can brag on ARFCOM that you are the only house in the county with power. I have electric all through my house and nobody has died from it. I would be more worried about the live uninsulated wires, running down the road in front of my house, causing a fire or killing somebody. I know of someone who was killed from one of these types of wires. It is about cost savings. When was the last time anybody was killed working on downed power lines that had a generator feeding them? I haven't heard anything for years. This thread is about calculated risks. And according to my calculations, when done properly the risk is almost non-existent. YMMV |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:58:15 PM EDT
[#15]
No worries. I'll retract my comments in my Pit thread. 
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Posted: 9/16/2008 4:59:30 PM EDT
[#16]
You started a Pit thread because I asked you what your electrical experience was? |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:00:41 PM EDT
[#17]
No, I was kidding, hence the " "
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:05:00 PM EDT
[#18]
The problem is, people say it's too expensive/complicated, but I installed my transfer switch myself, it even came with an install video, it was easy, it's the type where you pick what circuits you want, and the transfer switch sits between the main panel and the load. Similar to this, but a different brand that was cheaper at Menards: switch |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:07:51 PM EDT
[#19]
this
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:08:20 PM EDT
[#20]
What's really bad is Subnet isn't even broke. He shows off his toy's all the time. Based on his garage building thread, he's capable of installing a transfer switch. He knows he should, he just wants to act like he's smarter than all the people who suggest doing it right. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:15:17 PM EDT
[#21]
HAHA! You got me there. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:18:21 PM EDT
[#22]
How do you think I have the money for all those toys?  I'm not smarter than anyone, I just think a couple few of you are being a little over dramatic, is all. No harm, no foul. I promise not to kill a lineman. Pinky swear. In hindsight, its probably not the best idea for me to post this. Reason? Anybody who knows how to do it doesn't need to read about it (they'll either do it, or they won't), and those who don't know how to do it (and why) should probably not attempt it based on a brief writeup they read on a gun board, with no details whatsoever. So, there it is. Kids, don't try this at home. Now piss off and quit pestering me. 
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:23:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Thing I don't understand is why a person would want to have power throughout their house (backfeed entire panel) during SHTF.
I'd rather just power-up a few essentials, seal off sections of the house to conserve heat/AC, and party on. Guess if you have a big enough generator... |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:25:57 PM EDT
[#24]
The problem is when the power goes out it can be for weeks at a time. Just being able to walk into a room and turn on a light helps alot. If the SHTF for only a day or two its a differnent story. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:28:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Because I like to carry on pretty much as if nothing happened. Mine isn't for SHTF. It's for normal shit like ice storms, blizards, high winds and drunk drivers knocking the power out. It's just easy, is all. I've already got a perfectly good panel, and it comes with perfectly good breakers that conveniently ration power to the circuits I want active at any given time. Nice and simple. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:32:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Makes sense to me. As long as you keep Subnet Radio up and running...  Stay safe. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:33:48 PM EDT
[#27]
I've got one for you that I forgot about. During one of the hurricanes in FL some college kid took jumper cables and hooked it up to a downed but hot power line and hooked it up to a extension cord power strip thing and got 115 volts that way. This is no bullshit it was on the news down here. After two weeks with no power people resort to all kinds of things. Necessity being the mother of invention.
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:35:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Ya... I don't think I could "hand pull" the 017 and start it... pull starting a civic comes to mind. I'll talk to some ppl and see what I can find. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:35:43 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:40:47 PM EDT
[#30]
I have my panel wired up just like Subnets, only I used 6 guage wire.
I have a cap taped over the plug for the generator with instructions on how to hook everything up, including turn the main breaker off first. In the panel, I have a tag hanging on the breaker fed by the generator. The breaker is flipped off. The tag has complete instructions on how to hook the whole thing up, including turn the main breaker off first. It's safe. My wife could do it. It's hard to screw up with written instructions in two places you can't miss. The wire runs through the wall of the basement and comes out in the garage, a few feet from the outdoor location where the generator will sit. Coiled up and hanging on the wall. Then it's just a matter of flipping a few other breakers off and I can have heat, food that will not spoil, and a few lights. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:43:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Yep.. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 5:45:20 PM EDT
[#32]
With my gen set, I was able to have lights, fans, tv, refrigerator, deep freeze, computers, A/C and my X-box while my neighbors were sweating their asses off in the August heat. Oh, I forgot. When I left for work, I would power down most of the non essentials and fire up the hot water heater. After sleeping the night away in 70 degree comfort, I could get up and take a refreshing hot shower.
All of the above makes SHTF much more bearable. 
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Posted: 9/16/2008 6:13:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Can anyone answer this? I too have a 4 wire generator and a three wire dryer outlet. What to do with the ground wire in the 4 wire cable from the generator? |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 6:16:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Hypothetical situation on how you COULD screw something like this up:
Your main breaker cuts off the one(110) or two(220) hot leads entering your house. In most cases I'd say the neutral is probably still continuous. Joe schmoe who knows enough about electricity to get himself in trouble gets an appliance pigtail and a twistlock for his generator. He thinks he has a pretty good handle on electricity, and he probably does, but he messes up because it's dark and he's wiring by flashlight. He ends up putting one of his hot leads onto the neutral of his pigtail. He then starts his generator, and energizes the neutral back down the block, probably tripping his generator's breaker, but potentially injuring an electrical worker. The bottom line, be prepared, have this stuff done ahead of time, and don't put yourself and others in danger because you're cheap enough to wire a generator to your house half assed, but still probably afford plenty of beer and ammo. ETA: After some more thinking, this would probably only be an issue if there was a ground bonding problem, but still would be a bad deal. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 6:20:03 PM EDT
[#35]
I found tis at another site (cut and paste)
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=181698 |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 6:30:37 PM EDT
[#36]
At this point, I'm leaving my thread open for informational purposes only. I've decided against taking detailed pictures, and explaining the actual hookup in any great detail.  |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 6:38:21 PM EDT
[#37]
I'll stick with my river of extension cords for now.
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Posted: 9/16/2008 6:41:24 PM EDT
[#38]
There's a reason you missed it - it never happened. DV8 misinterpreted my post on page 3, in which I said that cords are designed with a male and female prong so that the cord isn't energized with an exposed male prong. He interpreted that to mean that I was saying that 10 gauge wire was illegal. Read the prior page. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 6:49:26 PM EDT
[#39]
No shot at you, but, I'm tired of this fucking berating of those of us that have sense enough to NOT THROW THE MAIN TO ELECTRICAL COMPANY FEED while the generator is connected. I've been running with a manual connection by shuttinf off the main and throwing the breaker to my genrerator hookup since Saturday morning at 8 am after that fucker IKE dropped a huge ass tree on the feed from the road to the pole/transformer by my house. I haven't had a problem and won't. I know NOT TO THROW THE FUCKING BREAKER. The power guys were by today and did something to disconnect the line in the yard that would be live if they fired up the wire in the street. They told me it may be less than six weeks after all before I get power. If you can keep your fucking finger off the trigger with a loaded weapon, why would you think you couldn't keep your head and not throw the breakers incorrectly. The two 60 amp breakers from my genny would only close anyway, but I'm not testing it. Fuck you guys that think we're that stupid. I've got cold food, watching tv, a small window unit and we're living in one room to save gas in the genny. AND I HAVE NOT BLOWN UP MY HOUSE OR THE WORLD Blackhawkhunter told everyone in the survival forums that I would die and my house would burn, but it has not happened because I'm not a fumbling idiot who does not understand the way it works. That being said, I'm thinking seriously of converting the genny to propane for simplicity, but, like the idea of having 8000 watts and 13500 starting watts and would hate to limit that with the lower output of propane. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 7:14:47 PM EDT
[#40]
People make mistakes. If 10,000 people used your setup, at least 10 of them would eventually forget to throw the breaker. I'm not calling you an idiot. I'm just saying that people make mistakes. Ever hear of someone forgetting to clear his firearm before dry firing? It happens. The person didn't intend to put a hole in the wall and is certainly smart enough to know he SHOULD clear his weapon. But mistakes happen. Failing to plan for them is setting yourself up for failure. edited to add: BTW, I bought the generator two months before bought my transfer switch. If we had lost power and needed the furnace in the interim, I would have had no problem throwing the main breaker and all the subbreakers and backfeeing my furnace through a 120v wall outlet in the garage (which, conveniently, is on the same circuit as the furnace) or re-wiring the furnace to work off an extension cord. Both solutions violate code and, fortunately, I didn't have to do either because I got the transfer switch before we lost power. But that was the emergency plan in the back of my mind until I got the transfer switch. Unlike emergency plans, however, long-term plans need to be easy, redundant and safe. In the long run, you're much better off with a transfer switch. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 7:23:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Danger
Illegal No positive lock out. Human error can be a MF'r. Did I mention Illegal. Former electrician. You might pull this off but you are giving bad advise to some who might kill a lineman or their family. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 7:28:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Or someone throws it when you are not in control of it. I put in a 3 way 200 amp switch for less than $400. Invest in your self and family then the other carbon based life forms can operate it. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 7:29:40 PM EDT
[#43]
So did I. A bullshit artist gets caught and fails on the deflection. Would you like us to go back and cut and paste it? |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 7:32:46 PM EDT
[#44]
yep look up do it yourself tesla coils Doing something that can kill yourslef and you only. Be my guest, do something stupid that can kill some innocent out there helping. That's stupid and usually illegal. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 7:38:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Look, I'm sure someone called you a fool or some such crap, I didn't. All I'm saying is, when times are good, and you have the money, hook it up correctly. I'm sure you are being safe, and I'm very glad you are getting by, but why not do it right so there isn't a chance of screwing things up? |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 7:48:00 PM EDT
[#46]
What law am I breaking? I live in Fulton County, Ohio. Unzoned. EDIT: Cite it, chapter and verse. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 8:03:04 PM EDT
[#47]
It may or may not be against the law where you are, but I sure as hell bet it's against your insurance policy and you're electric company service agreement. 
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Posted: 9/16/2008 8:11:27 PM EDT
[#48]
How many violations of the NEC can you possibly get in one post? Insane. 
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Posted: 9/16/2008 8:15:10 PM EDT
[#49]
No problem....if this is a real problem and a serious issue that routinely causes injuries and or deaths to a lineman repairing damage after a mass outage, you should EASILY be able to provide a link. Even better show how a generator that usually have a maximum 30 amp curcuits can power up the grid. AGAIN I'm more than willing to be shown this is actually possible, just so far all we have heard is "oh noes you could kill a mofo" with zero proof that a pissant genny that won't even power up everything in your home is capable of such a feat. Sorry....I'm just very skeptical that it would be possible to powerup the grid with 30 amps. That just doesn't seem possible. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 8:16:40 PM EDT
[#50]
30 amps can kill ... 0.3 amps can kill. Master Chief Electrican's Mate (ret) Ohm's law is the law ... it's not guidance. |
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