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Posted: 12/4/2001 8:07:39 PM EDT
The story of Frank Olson, and his suspicious death at the hands of the CIA: [url] http://www.frankolsonproject.org/Articles/LondonMail.html[/url]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:39:04 PM EDT
Wow, it was so interesting the CIA must have nuked the link...
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:49:29 PM EDT
Didn't read the article but I remember the story. It does seem odd that after he complained about having been given drugs [without his knowledge] that he would just fall from an open window in a hotel.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:56:08 PM EDT
For those of you who don't know what this was about. He was a scientist for the CIA, their expert on delivering various agents by way of atomization (aerosols/sprays) [I hope I spelled that right]. He and several other scientist were at a secret retreat and were given drugs [in their food and/or drinks]. He was the only one to openly complain. During a "business" trip he fell from a window. It was called suicide despite the lack of reasons. His sons (one of which was 9 at the time) have started their own investigation. The said that was not something their father would have done. I remember a few years ago they had his body exhumed and have forensic test done. He died some time in the 1950's
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:15:11 PM EDT
Lots of nasty things have been done by people in our government to its own citizens...and, of course, by every other government to their citizens. The thing to remember, and the thing that trips up way too many anti-government people, is that "the government" isn't a monolithic institution that can be seen as having "motives" and "goals." It is a HUGE collection of individuals, some elected, some appointed, some hired into positions from which it is impossible to fire them. They all have their own politics and mannerisms and varying degrees of regard for their fellow citizens and the Constitution. Some do bad things because they are in positions where they can get away with it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:57:46 PM EDT
I can't argue with you there Rik. That is why I never believe those conspiracy theories about secret groups controlling the government. However, while it may not be coordinated, most have similar ideas and agendas, and work toward the same end. And why do you always refer to us as anti-government? That is a smear the liberals use against liberty promoters. BTW, the Founders were as anti-government as you can get.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:59:46 PM EDT
the info was mcbooted for national security reasons
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 11:13:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 11:06:03 PM EDT by Dave_G]
Yup lib, the Founding Fathers were so anti-government that they tossed the Brits out and formed their own government. Wait a second...If they were anti-government, why would they form their own government? Could it be that you don't have a clue? One more thing. The new picture makes you look like a doofus. Try another.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 12:04:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 11:57:55 PM EDT by raven]
Those CIA creeps did all sorts of stuff with LSD. They'd have hotel rooms with peepholes and mikes, and bring in prostitutes. They'd surreptitiously dose the whores and watch the fun. Now this is in the 50's when LSD wasn't public knowledge. Could you imagine just going about your everyday existence, and then see it all suddenly become warped and distorted for no reason at all? You'd think you were going mad. The CIA did this for shits and giggles on our own people [:(!]
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 3:06:02 AM EDT
[url]http://www.frankolsonproject.org/Articles/LondonMail.html[/url] Go there.. I fixed the link
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 4:26:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76: And why do you always refer to us as anti-government? That is a smear the liberals use against liberty promoters. BTW, the Founders were as anti-government as you can get.
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First, I don't think I specifically called YOU anti-government. Second, no, the Founders were NOT anti-government. They were against non-representative government. Hell, many of them wanted to institute a constitutional monarchy.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 4:35:42 AM EDT
You know what? I don't care if the CIA killed Kennedy. I don't care if they used UFO/alien technology to do it. ...and you know what? I say this Frank Olson guy had it coming. So there!
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:04:52 AM EDT
This isn't a bad read either.. The search for the manchurian candidate [url]http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/marks.htm[/url] There's a chapter in there on Frank Olson if it floats your boat. Maybe I'll post this as a topic
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 6:53:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_G:Yup lib, the Founding Fathers were so anti-government that they tossed the Brits out and formed their own government. Wait a second...If they were anti-government, why would they form their own government?
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True they weren't anti-government. That was a mistake on my part. But they weren't very fond of government either.
Could it be that you don't have a clue?
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Could it be you don't?
One more thing. The new picture makes you look like a doofus. Try another.
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No, I think I'll keep the picture. I quite like it.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 7:12:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raven: Those CIA creeps did all sorts of stuff with LSD. They'd have hotel rooms with peepholes and mikes, and bring in prostitutes. They'd surreptitiously dose the whores and watch the fun. Now this is in the 50's when LSD wasn't public knowledge. Could you imagine just going about your everyday existence, and then see it all suddenly become warped and distorted for no reason at all? You'd think you were going mad. The CIA did this for shits and giggles on our own people [:(!]
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If you really want to read scary stuff the CIA did look up MK ULTRA, their mind control program. They opened a private hospital in Canada back in the 60's and experimented on many unsuspecting people who went there for treatment. There is a documented case of a woman who went in for postpartum depression and came out with her memory completely wiped. She had to learn how to walk, talk, and eat as she was turned essentially into an infant.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 2:24:15 AM EDT
lib, One day you may finally understand what true liberty and freedom is. Right now, the way you express your definition of liberty, it is much, much closer to the definition of anarchy. It is more like the selfish rantings of a spoiled child rather than the words of great men like Jefferson and Madison and T.R. If you want to survive past your 30th birthday, I suggest you learn to accept criticism, be it constructive or just plain mean in tone. And another thing; Do NOT attempt to enlist in the military. You aren't suited to live among the real men and women who have sworn to defend their country, with their lives if need be. That's something those who took up arms at Lexington and Concord and Saratoga and many other places did.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 3:35:46 AM EDT
It was called suicide despite the lack of reasons. His sons (one of which was 9 at the time) have started their own investigation. The said that was not something their father would have done.
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Well that is a new twist. The family of someone who does something stupid denies that they did it or that is was “like” them. Isn’t that what US Taliban Boy’s pop is saying? He was brainwashed? I find even if you have the acts on videotape that families cannot believe that their loved one would do “it”. So unless there is more proof than what a man who was 9 years old (What 9 year old even knows all the things their parents are doing?) thinks than they are just grasping. -Velveeta
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 9:41:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_G: lib, One day you may finally understand what true liberty and freedom is. Right now, the way you express your definition of liberty, it is much, much closer to the definition of anarchy. It is more like the selfish rantings of a spoiled child rather than the words of great men like Jefferson and Madison and T.R.
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Anarch is just the absence of all government. I think we need a LITTLE government, but not too much. And liberty is very easy to understand. It is the absence of government regulations of certain things(such as actions and products)
If you want to survive past your 30th birthday, I suggest you learn to accept criticism, be it constructive or just plain mean in tone. And another thing; Do NOT attempt to enlist in the military. You aren't suited to live among the real men and women who have sworn to defend their country, with their lives if need be. That's something those who took up arms at Lexington and Concord and Saratoga and many other places did.
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I accept criticism, and I don't see what that has to do with me surviving past my 30th birthday. Are you suggesting that I will be killed for what I believe? That sounds like tyranny to me. I actually was planning on enlisting when I was younger. Then I realized it wasn't for me, because I wouldn't be able to accept the orders, and I am against a standing army. And while I may not have sworn an official oath, I will defend my country from all enemies, foreign AND [red]domestic[/red]. I am ready to take up arms if need be, and I am ready to give my life for liberty.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:29:04 PM EDT
lib, Tyranny? You have no idea what real tyranny is. Your collected rantings qualify [b]you[/b] as one of those potential "domestic enemies" found in the various oaths we who have served this great country have freely taken. We, for some part of our lives or for many, at the cost of their lives, have shouldered the burden of defending our hard won freedom, liberty and our way of life from all enemies. You claim to be willing to take up arms to defend the country, but decline the privilege to serve in any capacity that would enable you to do so, citing the unwillingness to subject yourself to the command of others and opposition to the principle of maintaining a standing military, despite the fact that no modern industrialized nation could long survive in this turbulent world without a high tech standing military. In fact, the only "enemies" you have sworn to defend against are the people who are tasked with the enforcement of laws enacted by your own government which you have chosen to disown in the name of your own, wholely selfish, personal wants.
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