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Posted: 12/4/2001 2:36:38 PM EDT
I had an interesting night last weekend with a shave-10-years-off-your-life-to-nail woman. Background: we were friends in 10 years ago in high school; she's now almost divorced with 2 kids and living w/her Mom; I'm single and invited her to a holiday party. The party was pretty good. Decent food, lots of people. I'm feeling pretty damn good about myself because most women there couldn't hold a candle to her. She's got long blonde hair and eyes that look right through you and is wearing a long black dress w/heels. I introduce her to my old boss and the bastard says, "What are you doing with Scott?" Yes, she's that hot. So we get back to my house. It's late, and she says she wants to use the john and head home (a long drive). We're saying goodbye, and I make a move. Just some kissing in the doorway that goes on for a bit....by the end we're grinding pelvises and groping a bit (OK, me more than her). I ask if she wants to hang for a bit, and she says yes so I tell her to wait while I use the bathroom. I catch up with her downstairs, and she hits me with, "What do you want?" Ugh! Remember, this date started with us as friends, which isn't something I really want to screw up. Besides that, she lives far away and has some characteristics that I'd have a hard time dealing with in a girlfriend. So after some talk we agree that maybe this isn't such a good idea. So she's getting ready to leave again and I grab her again and we start Round 2. Don't know why I did it; maybe the look in her eyes, but she doesn't back off so there's more kissing...grinding...groping. Some talk about if she should stay or not (I'd offered her a couch to crash on originally, so she's probably made arrangements w/Mom to NOT expect her home). She says, "OK, I'm staying." I say, "Where?" She says, "In your bed, with you." At this time the full orchestra version of "Anchors Away" starts blasting in my head as I envision what kind of ecstacy I'm about to get into. Then she says, "But no sex." Now I'm thinking...well...my advances have been met favorably by her reactions, even though her lips said something entirely different. So maybe this isn't such a bad deal. So about 15 minutes later she climbs in the sack w/me. She's wearing a long t-shirt I gave her and some lace panties (those were hers!). We kiss a bit, but those words are ringing in my head so I back off. We both go to sleep. This is killing me because maybe I could have pushed the issue and nailed her, but I'd have really felt like a dick for taking advantage of my friend. Did I do the right thing? What would you have done? Just looking for some opinions...My next move might be to get her some jewelry as a thank-you gift for going to the party w/me, and it would be a good way to pick up where we left off. But idunno...
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:45:19 PM EDT
This has happened to me several times, same results. I am still regretting it. It has happened several more times with the other result. This has created some stronger friendships with a much more casual attitude about almost everything. I have never lost the friend because of it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:45:52 PM EDT
I think you did the right thing. Here is something that work GREAT for me. Tell them "no sex" I have been about raped a few times by telling them NO. It works, trust me. Riz
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:47:26 PM EDT
Carpe Poon
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:47:54 PM EDT
Good job. Maybe you could have pushed it, and got some that night, but you showed her that she can trust you. Might be a little quick for jewelery, but I've never been real good at picking out gifts for chicks. Perhaps some of the women of ar15.com can help you out there.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:51:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 2:45:19 PM EDT by medcop]
Originally Posted By heavily_armed: She's wearing a long t-shirt I gave her and some lace panties (those were hers!)
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Sure the panties were hers...whatever you say! [:D] Okay...maybe this relationship you have with her could end up becoming the fantasy that you have. She could respect you more now that you didn't go ahead and try to "score"...this could have been a test to see what type of guy you really are. Who knows....call her..ask her out again...just ask her what she is looking for. just my 2 cents medcop edited to add: Flowers...flowers are always good...women always love them! Maybe a rose..just one...a red one? Have it delivered to her mothers house.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:53:35 PM EDT
Might be a little quick for jewelery,
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I can justify it. We hit the casino that night and I came out $100 ahead.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:53:40 PM EDT
As for gifts: Jewelry, flowers, and candy are the universal solutions. Though for this situation, a quick turn-around with some flowers seems like the solution. Viper Out
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:56:05 PM EDT
Too early for gifts. You dont want to seem desperate. I agree be blunt, ask her what she wants. Have you spoken to her since that night?
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:56:40 PM EDT
I’m an old fart, and my testosterone went away with my waistline, but I would say that you handled it right. 1. She explicitly stated that she didn’t want to have sex. If you push it, she can always claim that she didn’t want to - you FORCED her - if only to herself and her friends. Maybe I’m just tired of those games, but I gave up on “reluctant” sex a long time ago. 2. “She has some characteristics that I'd have a hard time dealing with in a girlfriend”. It seems that she wasn’t interested in a one-night-stand and you aren’t interested in anything else. Years ago a friend gave me some words to live by “Make sure the f****** you’re getting is worth the f****** you’re getting”. If all the attached garbage is more than you are willing to put up with, pass. I know it doesn’t feel that way at the time (I’m not THAT old), but it makes life a lot easier. Also, as Riz said, if you act like you can do without them, some women try to prove that you can't.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:07:38 PM EDT
Here is something that work GREAT for me. Tell them "no sex" I have been about raped a few times by telling them NO.
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Riz, At some point, do you stop telling them NO? ;) Milhouse, no I haven't talked to her since that night. We didn't have yapfests beforehand, and starting now would seem unnatural. I agree the gift might seem desperate, but I did win $100 in front of her that night, and mentioned something the next morning about sending her a care package. She went way out of her way to go to this party w/me (a new dress too), so it seems appropriate.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:30:20 PM EDT
Just a note Bro,,,,,jewelery after one date is a sign of a mental case, dont feel bad you did the right thing. Call tell her you really enjoyed her company and would like to do it again. DO NOT mention the sex aspect of sleeping over. She already knows it, so it is implied. If she mentions it, smile and tell her how you nearly froze to death in a cold shower because of that night. If you must bring flowers, something nice other than red roses( they mean LOVE to women) you should not be in stupid love after one date. Dinner and a chick flick, or dancing with less booze this time. As the night ends, make the same offer of a sleep over. Tell her you saved her T-shirt, with a sly smile. Give some of those hot kisses and take her to bed. Less kissy by the door, save it for naked in bed where she is a wisp of nylon away from giving you a nice reward. Where a rubber for God sakes and avoid being the father to her next kid. and show her what makes an AR15.com guy great.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:32:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:35:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lonegunman:...[Wear] a rubber for God sakes and avoid being the father to her next kid. and show her what makes an AR15.com guy great.
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AMEN to that! [sex]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:46:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:55:50 PM EDT
... Go at her easy. Read some of the divorce threads here on Penthouse15.com before going full bore.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:57:16 PM EDT
Well I say that if she was just a "friend" she would not have wanted to get in the same bed with you.This girl wanted you to nail her,she was just being a tease.All this talk of respect and stuff is just so much Oprah Winfrey speak.Next time you are in a situation like this learn to read the signals,I mean WTF does she have to draw you a map.Nail her and be done with it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:02:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 3:56:28 PM EDT by Dolomite]
[b]"With all due respect Ma’am, may I politely ask you to snork down on the snotty end of John Johnson, and start sucking like you’re underwater and I’m a source of oxygen.”[/b] [sex] Are you sure this all wasn’t all some kind of bizarre gay/not gay test? Are you sure that she isn’t hanging out at the local Chi-Chi's talking about you?
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:04:26 PM EDT
dodomite. omg. hilarious.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:08:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:20:33 PM EDT
[center][red]---ALERT---FEMALE OPINION FOLLOWS---[/red][/center] Let's see.... You were friends in high school She's drop dead gorgeous She's [i]almost[/i] divorced You offered her the couch, and she preferred the bed [b]with you[/b] My opinion.... The divorce is wearing on her ego. She needs the bolstering that your attention and adoration gives her. She wants/needs to be admired and lusted after, but she's not sure she really wants to actually have sex with anyone right now. My advice.... And I must say, several of you guys hit the nail on the head, IMO. Send her flowers (not roses and not jewelry). Call her after you know the flowers have arrived, and tell her what a good time you had, and that you'd like to see her again. If you get a second date, do not let her sleep in your bed with you again under those conditions. Tell her that it's just too much for you to handle, having her so close and not being able to touch her (that will help her ego). She'll have to make a decision from that. My warning.... She is not yet completely divorced. Watch your six. Her ex could be up to something that you don't know about. My suggestion.... Don't sleep with her until her divorce is final, but continue to fawn over her to make her feel good. She needs that right now. Good luck! [:D]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:24:30 PM EDT
If she's a friend and you really want it to stay that way, you probably should not have made a move on her in the first place. However, she tolerated your groping, therefore she is not really a friend in the true meaning of the word, so you should feel free to take a shot at it. Call me old fashioned, but I don't go for sleeping together sans the nasty. If she is willing to sleep with you, make it clear from the start that the bedroom is for love. If she objects, one of you should take the couch. By sharing your bed and not doing the nasty, she immediately got the upper hand in the relationship. This is something you should avoid. You must define your parameters early on and stick to them. She'll respect you all the more for doing so.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:26:30 PM EDT
Why all of the consternation? From what I read you arn't really interested.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:29:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 4:24:23 PM EDT by ErickM]
Damn, why all the complicated questions and responses, SHE WAS ON THE RAG, thats IT! And if you should somehow learn her cycle (hopefully) and deduce by looking at a calendar she wasn't at the time, when you tell the story, make sure you say SHE WAS. edited to say, I'm sure even Wilt Chamberlain and Ron Jeremy LIE in their favor about sexual exploits in the presence of other men. it's only normal. (note: reverse lie procedure to self-depredation in presence of womenz you hope to lie about)
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:33:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 4:35:33 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By heavily_armed: so there's more kissing...grinding...groping. Some talk about if she should stay or not (I'd offered her a couch to crash on originally, so she's probably made arrangements w/Mom to NOT expect her home). She says, "OK, I'm staying." I say, "Where?" She says, "In your bed, with you." At this time the full orchestra version of "Anchors Away" starts blasting in my head as I envision what kind of ecstacy I'm about to get into. Then she says, "But no sex."
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She is playing a control game, and you lost. Should have showed her the couch or show her the door. And guys, No sometimes means "no", but always means [b]you[/b] end the date and take her home! Next time she'll think twice about saying "no" when she really means, "I really want to, but I'm afraid you'll think I'm a slut. so could we drag this out until the third date?"
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:36:09 PM EDT
It's been my experience that there are four type of women in this world. 1) The kind who won't have anything to do with you. 2) The kind who will and would make a wonderful mother and wife. 3) The kind who will and would make a great lover but not a long term companion. 4) The kind who will but are just in it to screw with your head. Ask yourself where she falls into that. If she's just playing games with you, you don't need her. If she wouldn't make a good wife (or long term companion) then you don't want to make a big investment in her for a short term gig. If she's the kind who would only make good matress meat, nothing more, then don't spend too much time (or money) trying to lure her back. I think you did the right thing by not screwing her simply because she said no sex. It's not a matter of respect--she could have called the cops and it would have been your word against hers. You know how that would have turned out. Or she could have gone psycho and become all clingy and needy. Or worse yet, she could have made you fall for her and then just dump you. If you're sure you want to follow through and be more than friends, call her up and tell her that she's been on your mind a lot. Tell her you're having a tough time putting into words what's been going on lately, but that you'd like to see her again. If she agrees, then buy some flowers. If not, you know how far you want to persue it. Just my 3 cents worth (adjusted for inflation).
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:52:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... Go at her easy. Read some of the divorce threads here on Penthouse15.com before going full bore.
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Oh, I thought it was Dear_Abby.com! No means no, unless the little head is thinking longer and harder than the big head, so to speak. Then "no" means anything you want it to. Why don't you just ask her what's up and talk about it? She's likely to have more *inside* info. about how she experienced the whle evening than just about anyone here on this website... [:D] There is nothing more romantic than actual emotional intimacy. My guess is you can't or won't actually *talk* to her about your relationship because you don't want one. Maybe just needed to brag a little bit? [;)] Time to move on, perhaps?
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:57:17 PM EDT
Man, you don't have to nail her just because you can. If you had tried to, she may have screamed Rape. Personally, I would have at least tried to get some cuddling, maybe kissing and groping on in the Bed. Even if it doesn't go all the way, she will see how good you might be in bed. You don't need to nail her to feel good or be a man. You can make out. You can kiss, grope, cuddle, and if she allows it, even pet. Personally, I feel the sex should be saved for later on, when you know each other much better or preferably are married. Then again, this is the opinion of a virgin. BTW, I tried pushing the issue a while back and that was when I got my nose busted by a good-looking Hispanic Chick. After that, I had two other major relationships. The first one was a gold digger. She had no problem asking for Jewelry right away and to start with I obliged her on that. At least until my wallet couldn't support it anymore. The second was a real nice Christian girl, who I wouldn't dare have asked to sleep with me. We were together for 2 years and never so much as groped or even saw her in any state of undress. I was fine with that because she was great woman who was very loyal and very nice. Damn, I miss her.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:00:06 PM EDT
The real question is: "Does she like and tolerate firearms?" Hmmm?
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:02:23 PM EDT
I've had similiar experiences in the past. Patience. You'll nail her.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:06:37 PM EDT
If the woman doesn't know her own mind, you can't either. Beyond that, either she's fucking with your head, which is a fucked up bitchy thing to do, or she wants you on some level. Trick is figuring out which, and whether it's worth the stress. Generally, I avoid that kind of situation, becuase I don't like dealing with that sort of emotional confusion. but it's your call.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:16:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 5:09:24 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
Before I can offer any advice, one word.... PICS! Edited to add...of those lace underware. Is that still one word?
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:17:37 PM EDT
Let me ask you “ya done the right thing” guys a question… When you were in high school, which musical did you enjoy performing the most? To be honest, I’d be oh-so happy to see you guys taking my Grandma out to a movie, but I mean c’man, when a woman asks you how they look, are you really looking at her clothes, or picturing her naked? [b]Here’s whatcha do heavily_armed -[/b] Next time she’s over (that is if she’s not already out busy yapping about you down at the local Chi-Chi’s like that guy on the first page said), sit her down with a glass of [I]vino[/I] or two. Now, during one of those inevitable moments of silence, start laughing to yourself. When she asks you what’s so funny, you say: “Well, gosh. Some of the guys at work today were talking about naughty things they’ve gotten their wives to do, and jeez, half the time, I swear - I didn’t know what they were talking about. They’d blurt out some crazy phrase and even though I was clueless as to what it meant I’d just go along and laugh with them anyway. For example… have you ever heard of something called a ‘Dirty Sanchez’?” [b][I]Bada-boom, bada-bing[/b][/I], next thing she knows, she’s standing at the end of her driveway watching your tail lights fade into the distance wondering if the gooey substance in her hair is really any different protein wise than the Clairol Nutrient Conditioner she uses every other day. Please understand that I’m just trying to help.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:27:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:39:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 6:24:21 PM EDT by heavily_armed]
OK, thanks for all the opinions. Most of you that is....As for the bragging--I posted this to get some feedback on how it could've been handled differently, and also a little for entertainment purposes for everyone. Nuff said. As for the future, yeah, jewelry's out, flowers a maybe, phone call a definite. About the stuff about her I don't like...she's anti-hunting. She smokes. She's got kids. But I won't rule out a relationship because we get along pretty well. And she's HOT [:D]! Just kidding, I'm not that shallow. But I think mattja and Ar-15gal hit it on the head. Sleeping w/her w/no nookie was pretty rough. That won't happen again. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 6:41:50 PM EDT
Geez what are you complaining about? At least you found a womenz that didn't yell "get away from me you freak!" like I get all of the time.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 6:53:01 PM EDT
OK _armed! You go on out there and show her who's in charge!!! Just keep a few things in mind the next time she gets into bed with ya: "The Purple Mushroom" "The Woody Woodpecker" and my favorite, [b]"The Nixon"[/b]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:16:06 PM EDT
I'm guessing she's either: a) indecisive, attracted to you but not willing yet to take the jump or b) yanking your chain YMMV
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:34:03 PM EDT
Dolomite, I think I just added yours to my all time favorite quotes. That was awsome!
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:38:00 PM EDT
Am with MOLITAS & AR15fan on this one. Thought she was testing you, and how you handle things, until read AR-15gal pointing out she's *almost* divorced. No separated women. Their husbands may want to kill you. Have dated divorced women with children. Watch Jerry McGuire (sp?). As nice and compatible they may be, they seem to always ultimately seek a replacement father/husband, in spite of how they may seem otherwise initially. Back to the "sleep in your bed" thing, serious girlfriends later told me that, they indeed wanted to have sex, those times they "slept over," or just wanted to "cuddle." Amazingly, they were patient enough to wait through my dating bungling. Was so fucking naive then. Still now, come to think of it . . . When used gut, was okay. When used head, fucked up every time. Chin up. 'Nother train coming (or same one again!) Every day is a gift.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:15:03 PM EDT
This sux. It reminds me of some unfortunate times when womenz would let me get started, have second thoughts, and then ask me to stop. Like a fool I complied. Just my $.02. Friends may come and go, but memories of a great lay are forever!
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:35:01 PM EDT
Gee this story reminds me of a time I had when I was a mere pup of 27 and between wives! I was at a bar and the drop-dead gorgeous blonde walks over to me and starts with the small talk. Next thing you know, I'm buying her drinks, and the small talk is getting serious. Then we start making out right there at the bar, I mean seriously making out. She finally works up the nerve to really lay it on the line and just blurts out that she would really like to make love with me. That night! At her house! Well, you can imagine what thoughts were racing through my mind about that time! Anyway, just as we're about to leave, she leans over and whispers in my ear: 'There's a small hitch - I'm on my menstrual cycle!' 'No problem,' I reply, 'I'll follow you in my Jeep!' Now, did I handle that well, or not? Eric The(Well,DidI?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 3:44:59 AM EDT
I had a friend from high school that was absolutely gorgeous too and when I finally got her it sucked. You should have asked her if her definition of "sex" is the same as Bill Clinton's.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 4:55:46 AM EDT
the things we do when we lose valuable blood to the brain....
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 4:57:54 AM EDT
Simply put, if she slept in your bed she was interested in having sex with you but was grappling with her own issues. Women don't put themselves in that situation without understanding the implications... especially not a woman with some experience under her belt. If you had gone for the "let's just cuddle" angle, things would have developed. That being said... you earned brownie points by respecting what she said. But I agree, no more sleeping without sleeping together. [;)] As for you two and your future? You said she lives a fair distance away. Do you think you two could date casually? Call her up and ask her out again. Try simply enjoying her company and developing the friendship that you say you two have together. But I'll tell you this much, be HONEST about your intentions with her. She's in a pretty emotionally fragile place right now, I'd imagine, and if you're only out for a poke I'd recommend you leave things as just friends before you make her life even more complicated.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:04:12 AM EDT
OK, here's an opinion as to what you should do.... You should look forward to some single, young buck kissing, groping and clothed humping YOUR wife, and welcoming her into HIS bed. "Almost" divorced? Irrelevant. Your actions make it "almost" impossible for a reconciliation between her and her husband. You are "almost" a home wrecker, and you "almost" not only F'ed her, but F'ed her children, whose best possible situation is to have their REAL dad back in their lives. OK, here's the advice - grow a set of morals, or get ready for the SAME @&%! to fly in your face one day. [rolleyes][:(!]
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:07:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: OK, here's the advice - grow a set of morals, or get ready for the SAME @&%! to fly in your face one day.
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Or both. Moral people have lousy stuff happen to them, too. Ain't life funny?
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:12:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2001 5:09:52 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: Moral people have lousy stuff happen to them, too. Ain't life funny?
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. OK (calming down) Problem with your statement is that it is irrlevant. This isn't "stuff happening" - its him MAKING A CHOICE to do wrong. Its wrong, he KNOWS its wrong, and KNOWS what he should have done. Thankfully, at least she had SOME principles. Lemme explain to you WHY this cheese me off so bad - Its like SOME of us guys act like we are some kind of pavlovian dog, that WHENEVER some 'action" come along, we have "no choice" and we go like a moth to the flame. That type of moral spinelessness makes us as gun owners NO DIFFERENT than the gun banners who go like a moth to the "flame of gun control." I just expect MORE from us. More brains. More spine. More moral certainty. More control over our baser urges. Just more.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:16:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Thankfully, at least she had SOME principles.
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WHAT?!? SHE was the one who suggested she sleep in HIS bed when he offered her the couch! FWIW, sometimes when we women are done with a relationship/marriage then we are DONE. NO room for reconciliation. I understand your point, garandman, but you're getting your panties in a wad and confusing facts. [:p]
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:18:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2001 5:13:52 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
East there, I wasn't disagreeing, just adding. I certainly wasn't knocking "morals". [b]Originally Posted By garandman: OK, here's the advice - grow a set of morals, [red]or[/red] get ready for the SAME @&%! to fly in your face one day.[/b] Karma is an Eastern thing. Here in the West.... well, read Job.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:19:35 AM EDT
I've been told many times, "Good things come to those who wait..." [b]STILL WAITING DAMMIT!!![/b]
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