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Posted: 12/3/2001 8:36:14 PM EDT
According to the Times of India. [url]http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=2012523207[/url]
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 8:45:20 PM EDT
From the story: 'Spann and his CIA colleague, Dave, were thought to have set off the violence by aggressively interrogating foreign Taliban prisoners and asking, "Why did you come to Afghanistan?". August said their questions were answered by one prisoner jumping forward and announcing, "We’re here to kill you".'
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Yes, those cruel, inhuman bastards sparked the revolt by asking the terrorist motherf*&kers questions. Damn. Amnesty International should look into this. I understand that the CIA officers offered the Talibastards cinnamon oatmeal for breakfast instead of the apple nut cream of wheat that they had demanded, too. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 8:54:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2001 8:48:11 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 8:59:16 PM EDT
God Bless the young men who put their lives on the line for our freedom ! (and ... they should have given the TalliWhackers bacon for breakfast!)
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 9:04:23 PM EDT
Yes, those despicable CIA agents who had the nerve to be putting their lives on the line for worthless motherf**kers who shall remain nameless, had the NERVE to >gasp< ASK the daring Afghan soldiers SIMPLE QUESTIONS! Oh the horror! Obviously these questions MUST have caused the prison riot...it is clear to anyone who survives on a steady diet of anti-American propoganda and bullshit.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 10:02:10 PM EDT
Don't forget that Amnesty is a left wing organization and it has a vested interest in making the US look bad. My feeling about that massacre is that the uprising was encouraged as a justifiable way to slaughter a lot of Taleban prisoners so they could never escape and live to fight another day. Such actions go against every bit of civility that our armed forces are supposed to uphold, even in wartime. The CIA guys were only partially to blame, in other words and we're not getting the complete story, as usual. But after Flight 93, is that any big surprise?
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 10:06:32 PM EDT
How were the CIA employees even partially to blame, pray tell? Answer: they were not. The ones to blame were the Northern Alliance blockheads that allowed the Taliban guys to smuggle in weapons and allowed journalists in among them.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 10:37:30 PM EDT
Gotta agree with trickshot on this one...actually on this whole taliban thing. We should be as quick to disregard our own gov'ts accounts as we seem to be of other accounts.. I'm hard pressed to call any spook a hero. Theres some truth out there, but what we're being spoon fed isn't it.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 10:53:17 PM EDT
I support the extermination of those individuals 100 percent.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 11:20:24 PM EDT
It is not clear how all this begun. From the report I heard from the radio news, they seems to be responsible for the uprising. The firearms that started the rebellion in Mazar-i-Sharif seemed to be the personal weapons of the two CIA men. If it's true they are all but no heroes...
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 1:14:40 AM EDT
Paolo The uprissing started with explosion, presumable from hand grenades, so more than likely they were smuggled in or found by the enemy. Well Capt Spann may not be a hero, he is more than willing to fight and die so some of you can have you opnion. He was there because someone needs to do the dirty works to allow other to not have to. That makes him a better man than those who have never done a thing in their lives but talk.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 1:29:25 AM EDT
There's an excellent account of the uprising in Time, of all places; one of their reporters was on the scene. [url]http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,186592-1,00.html[/url] The grenade attacks seem to have preceeded the later rush by some time. The prisoners got most of their weapons from the NA guards, who were rushed at the same time as Spann and the other agent, before they stormed the armory.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:53:27 AM EDT
well, the libertarians are telling us its all our fault because , we involve ourselves outside our borders! this must be more proof: we interrogated our enemies!
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:05:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By STLRN: Paolo The uprissing started with explosion, presumable from hand grenades, so more than likely they were smuggled in or found by the enemy. Well Capt Spann may not be a hero, he is more than willing to fight and die so some of you can have you opnion. He was there because someone needs to do the dirty works to allow other to not have to. That makes him a better man than those who have never done a thing in their lives but talk.
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Ok. This is a new element in the picture. It's likely to be true. Could be true also that the "prisoners" were left with their personal weapon because they surrendered after an agreement with Gen. Dostum? If I were the CIA man I'd demand that all the prisoners should be disarmed and searched. Should be a standars procedures. You don't know how many versions I listen here, even that "the uprising was provoked by the CIA and Mossad (SIC) to have a good reason to exterminate the prisoners". Mah...
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:09:40 AM EDT
So the Taliban smuggled all those weapons into the prison because of the questions asked by the CIA? Nonsense. The revolt was planned and prepared for, hence the smuggled weapons. The CIA didn't cause it. Why do people hate their country so much, that they are willing to bend over backwards to believe these far-fetched stories? Where's YOUR beef originate from, School-Boy? [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/bioPics/libertyof76.jpg[/img] (hate the new photo, BTW) Life experience? Property Taxes? Are you oppressed? Beat up by ROTC guys?
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:11:52 AM EDT
Trickshot my friend,can I call you my friend? Exactly when 'n' where did you witness/hearabout civility in WAR![rolleyes][b]Believe me there is none.[/b]situation..The enemy,lets just say their the KrazyTigerKittys,just killed/blew-up,mutilated,shot,a few bud's you made in the service,so now you going to ask them if they want Whole,2%,1%,or fatfree milk?[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:11:54 AM EDT
Any reason to exterminate those wastes of air is a good one.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:18:09 AM EDT
Post from PaoloAR15 -
The firearms that started the rebellion in Mazar-i-Sharif seemed to be the personal weapons of the two CIA men.
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Lord, Paolo, don't believe everything you hear on the radio, otherwise you might wind up believing that Arafat is [b]not[/b] responsible for the suicide bombers in Israel! If the revolt was inspired by the Taliban's capture and use of the two CIA officer's weapons, they must have had a very large stockpile of weapons with them! No, the weapons the Taliban used were from the weapons cache that the Northern Alliance kept there! And the revolt started when some of the Taliban set off grenades that they had carried with them into captivity. NOTE: It is generally unwise to store firearms and prisoners at the same location. Really. Eric The(GodBlessOurHeroes)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:19:56 AM EDT
They Belonged to a un-consititutional government agency. CIA not willing to use torture? Come on! I bet they were hooking live electrical wires to guys nuts over there. c-rock
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:20:35 AM EDT
The one CIA agent was a former US MARINE,GOD rest his soul and bless his family .This man was a hero.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:25:05 AM EDT
Jeez! Now that I read the article from the Times of India, I think that the next order of business should be surrounding that building in NYC that is 'occupied' by the United Nations! What a group of morons, thinking they will investigate [b]us[/b] as war criminals, when they've kept their collective mouth pretty much shut on the whole 'Attack on America' situation! Eric The(Don'tSendTheUnitedNationsAMessage-SendThemLuggage!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:20:24 AM EDT
There were reports that the Taliban that surrendered WERE NOT SEARCHED. Also 2 vehicle were brought into the compound as part of the surrender agreement, that also WERE NOT SEARCHED. Apparently the Taliban prisoners had access to weapons. SInce they had a few of their own it gave them the ability to capture weapons the NA was storing there too. On the other hand, the CIA guys shouldn't be blamed for the "revolt" any more than the WTC should be thought at fault for getting in the way of those planes.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:27:14 AM EDT
Rest in peace Captain Johnny "Mike" Spann, USMC. Thank you for fighting [b]for[/b] something, not just against something. Semper Fidelis, stud. [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20011202/capt.1007328666attacks_first_death_xjcm104.jpg[/img] [b]The body of CIA officer Johnny "Mike" Spann is carried by a Marine honor guard from an Air Force aircraft Sunday, Dec. 2, 2001 at Andrews Air Force Base, Md. Spann, a paramilitary officer who was shot and killed in Afghanistan by rioting prisoners, was the first American combat death in the war on terrorism (AP Photo/Joe Marquette, Pool)[/b]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 6:14:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By moNgReL66: Gotta agree with trickshot on this one...actually on this whole taliban thing. We should be as quick to disregard our own gov'ts accounts as we seem to be of other accounts.. I'm hard pressed to call any spook a hero. Theres some truth out there, but what we're being spoon fed isn't it.
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Wow, and you have all of NINE POSTS now...Hi Trickshot, how do you like your new name?
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 6:26:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By moNgReL66: Gotta agree with trickshot on this one...actually on this whole taliban thing. We should be as quick to disregard our own gov'ts accounts as we seem to be of other accounts.. I'm hard pressed to call any spook a hero. Theres some truth out there, but what we're being spoon fed isn't it.
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Wow, and you have all of NINE POSTS now...Hi Trickshot, how do you like your new name?
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Additionally, he was a Marine first. If he was a real spook, the CIA would never have admitted to his existance. My impression is that he recently joined the CIA.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:11:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from PaoloAR15 -
The firearms that started the rebellion in Mazar-i-Sharif seemed to be the personal weapons of the two CIA men.
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Lord, Paolo, don't believe everything you hear on the radio, otherwise you might wind up believing that Arafat is [b]not[/b] responsible for the suicide bombers in Israel! If the revolt was inspired by the Taliban's capture and use of the two CIA officer's weapons, they must have had a very large stockpile of weapons with them! No, the weapons the Taliban used were from the weapons cache that the Northern Alliance kept there! And the revolt started when some of the Taliban set off grenades that they had carried with them into captivity. NOTE: It is generally unwise to store firearms and prisoners at the same location. Really. Eric The(GodBlessOurHeroes)Hun[>]:)]
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If only you could read Italian... Eric! There's a forum about "Italy in war"... (SIC) and you'll find interesting opinions about both USA and Israel. Ehm... I posted a correction. I read the article on the on-line edition of the "TIME". Now it's clearer: the fault is because of that dumbass of Dostum. No one would even nominate him last cooker of the salvation army, and this man is general of a real one...
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 12:07:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 12:13:39 PM EDT
I'm hard pressed to call any spook a hero.
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Would this likewise apply to Nathan Hale, one of the Colonies' 'spooks' in the Revolutionary War? Is he not a hero? Eric The(AllThingsInPerspective,Now)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 12:24:49 PM EDT
Is anyone surprised at who started this thread or the one who threw in with him? As soon as I saw the subject on the home page, I knew it was one of 4 people.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 12:48:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 1:00:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:08:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mike103: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows in the end the triumphs of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." THEODORE ROOSEVELT
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A great quote from our greatest President. Our 2 butt-buddies invictus and 76 need to read it and understand why their views are shit to most of us. It's easy to sit behind your computers and make up BS stories (as they whine "but the Times of India said it,it must be true") Mike Spann,former Marine officer,CIA operative,American hero. Willing to go and do things you little boys wet your pants even thinking about. Hey '76, you read Time's version? That can't be true,right? Gee,maybe The Village Voice and the San Francisco Chronicle can make up a story more to your liking. Anything where America or Americans are at fault will do,right?
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:33:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:42:47 PM EDT
The Geneva Convention and the rules of war (none of which the Afghans have signed in any case), provide that prisoners of war who use force and violence to escape, may be [u]executed[/u] as a penalty. All the news reports in the Times of India article are from Brits, probably lefties, claim that Spann set off the revolt by "aggressively interrogating" the foreign Taliban. Give me a break. The foreign Taliban were fortunate to be alive at all. We may never know what actually happened, but I would not be surprised if the foreign Taliban surrendered and treacherously concealed their weapons intending to break free once they were outside the zone of the siege.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:25:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy:Why do people hate their country so much, that they are willing to bend over backwards to believe these far-fetched stories?
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Why do I hate my government so much? It routines gets in mine and other people's business, it taxes everybody to no end, it routinely violates my and everybody else's rights, it routinely ignores the Constitution, it kills its citizens over a $200 tax, it strangles the economy and business, ... I could go on and on. And i never said that I believed this story. Look at the title: "...MAY have..." I now see that this has been contradicted by other leftists, so this story is no longer believable.
Where's YOUR beef originate from, School-Boy?
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To tell you the truth, I have no idea. For the past 4 or so years I have become almost obsessed with liberty. I want to see the furtherance of it, and I want other to enjoy it too.
(hate the new photo, BTW)
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Glad to hear that. I figured you would have the old one anyway, plus I like this one better [:)]. Notice I have my finger of the trigger.
Life experience? Property Taxes? Are you oppressed? Beat up by ROTC guys?
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None of them. My family is not too well off, but we aren't poor. We always have more than enough to eat and have all kinds of luxuries(computers, digital cable, 4 cars, etc). I can't really explain it. Maybe all these years of public education has something to do with it.
Originally Posted By CPL_Punishment:He is the same brainiac who said in another thread that we essentially do not need airport metal detectors because everyone has the right to carry firearms onto the plane... [rolleyes]
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I see some problems with that, but the price is worth it(you know, avoiding the death of 3,000 people)
Originally Posted By Hoople: Our 2 butt-buddies invictus and 76 need to read it and understand why their views are shit to most of us.
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I don't know why you have problems with our views(calling us "butt-buddies" doesn't help your cause.) I
It's easy to sit behind your computers and make up BS stories (as they whine "but the Times of India said it,it must be true")
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Well, I don't see you over in Afghanistan. And I never said that the article was true. It is believable, but I have heard things that have contradicted it. Of course we will never know the true story.
Mike Spann,former Marine officer,CIA operative,American hero. Willing to go and do things you little boys wet your pants even thinking about.
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Well I don't even think about doing that. I would be over in another country in the first place.
Hey '76, you read Time's version? That can't be true,right? Gee,maybe The Village Voice and the San Francisco Chronicle can make up a story more to your liking. Anything where America or Americans are at fault will do,right?
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No I haven't read the times version. Have a link? And the Times are a bunch of leftists too, btw. I take everything I read with doubt, especially the media and the government. I don't like to see America or Americans at fault. I am trying to make sure that doesn't happen.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 2:25:09 AM EDT
Somebody please tell me I'm not actually discussing this with the kid in the picture. '76, did you read T.R.'s quote? Do you understand what he said? Just think about it before you're so quick to insult the memory of a man who gave much so you would have the right to sit there and post your self righteous crap. And try to understand why it angers many of us. This isn't some high school debate. A man with a wife and young children lost his life doing what he (and I) thought was right. Until you and your pal invictus do something (anything)in this life, beside put Americans like Mike Spann down from the safety of your home, your opinions have no value to me. By the way that Time link is right on the 1st pg. of this thread.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 3:32:20 AM EDT
Of course we will never know the true story.
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Of course we will know the real story one day. Mr. Spann's cohort and our countryman was there and a witness to the whole affair. Once he's cleared to give the true version of events, I, for one, will quite willingly believe him. Eric The(AmericansAreLikeThat,WeTrustOneAnother,Un­tilWeHaveReasonNotTo)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:06:18 AM EDT
Liberty of '76, That wouldn't be a state funded school that you are going to would it? Think about that for a second. I kinda understand where he and some others are coming from, they are staunch libertarians (sp?). They believe that individual people are wise and will "do the right thing" And the government is evil. 2 problems with that If you believe that people will do the right thing, why wouldn't they do that if they are working in government? Nex people don't "do the right thing" if they did there would be very few laws because people would act responsibly and wouldn't have to have society let them know that certian acts are not permissible.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 6:18:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 8:15:07 AM EDT
mike103 Enough with the melodrama, your new here I see, so let me inform you of something. Invictus and liberty of 76 have ZERO creadability here. As far as 'gun owners criticizing members of the military' first off we dont know for sure that Invictus and liberty are even OLD enough to possess firearms (after all we have only the information that THEY post) so stop splattering the rest of us with your holier than thou paintbrush because GoatBoy lets them and the rest of the libertarians freely post here... You write good so I hope to see you around more...
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 8:43:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Invictus and liberty of 76 have ZERO creadability here.
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I wouldn't lump Lib in with Invictus. Lib is just young and very idealistic and that isn't a bad thing. Invictus is just another lunkhead separatist without even the courage of his convictions.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 8:46:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2001 8:43:54 AM EDT by LARRYG]
Mike, don't judge us by a relative few who, more and more it seems, aren't old enough nor mature enough to have a clue. One of these type even called military people "tax leeches" in one tirade and said "I never asked you to protect me". Isn't it amazing how some people don't have a clue what their lives would be like without the aforementioned "tax leeches" protecting our country. Anyone else noticed how much some of these people, who claim to be conservative or libertarian (not a slam at the Libertarian party) have in common with the far left anarchists, who they claim to despise? Mike, there are quite a few veterans who are members of this board, some current active duty, and some reservists/Guardsmen. There are also several Vietnam combat vets and Vietnam era vets. Believe me, the aforementioned people will not slam nor slander our current combatants or anyone in uniform or out of uniform ala the CIA, for doing their duty in the current situation. Believe me, vets who served in the '60s and '70s know what it feels like to have your own country shun you and we won't tolerate it from idiots in this day and time.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 12:38:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 1:41:54 PM EDT
woohoo...let's put on the boots and have a little rally while the reichstag is burning!!! Do you peeps ever read what you wrote or does George the shrub just send out fyi's for you guys---do any of you remember July when we were discussing the Gov't taking away our rights? And now you believe everything that the Gov't tells you? To directly address one of the posters in this thread...Where were the "tax leeches" on Sept 11....no intercepts? No warnings? Why are the tax leeches in afghanistan when most of the "hijackers" were from Saudi? Osama has been in custody before and The Gov't let him go.... Was the CIA responsible? He@# no....but some of you people are absolutely insane with your defense of the Gov't that did ruby ridge or waco......hound out
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