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6/25/2017 7:35:25 PM
6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 12/1/2001 6:04:45 PM EDT
i am wondering if anybody really knows the true story of blackhawk down. the true story is that the cliton administration is responsibly for those men being wounded and killed on that day. i am very interested in seeing if the movie is factual. on that specific day our men were to go in and extract the war lord, but on that day this war lord was in a peace agreement talk with former president jimmy carter and our president at the time(bill clinton)knew that these peace talks were going on and that our special forces guys were going in to extract this war lord,and the war lord knew that our special forces men were coming in so he set up an ambush for our men. nothing like being a pawn for old billy boy.[pissed]
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 6:48:39 PM EDT
Go to the book store and get the book. It is a good read.
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 3:44:35 PM EDT
The Philadelpia Inquirer has had the abbreviated version on-line for a while. http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/sitemap.asp
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 4:02:33 PM EDT
If you can remember that far back, you will most likely recall a scene from about May, 1993, when President Clinton 'took' the South Lawn at the White House, leading a distinguished group of military officers to a mike and podium set up there for the purpose of announcing that the 'humanitarian effort' in Somalia, graciously begun by the previous administration, was now completed. Rush made fun of the march across the South Lawn on his television show. I'll see if I can't find a photo of it somewhere. It was ludicrous. But what I'm getting at, is if Clinton says the mission was completed in May, of 1993, what the heck were [u]any[/u] American servicemen doing in Mogadishu in October of that year? Easy answer - 'nationbuilding' of course. And while the Clinton Administration was not at all reluctant to use armored pcs at Mt. Carmel Church, near Waco, Texas, his Secretary of Defense Les Aspin refused to allow any heavy armor in Somalia. The only heavy armor available in Mogadishu during the 'Black Hawk Down' firefight were Portugese, IIRC. And, IIRC, we had the dickens of a time getting them to come to our men's aid! Eric The(JustAnotherReason,AmongMillions,ToHateCli­nton!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 4:09:53 PM EDT
I personally think you'll get as much of the true story as your likely to ever get if you read Mark Bowdens fine book "Blackhawk Down". A great read. I couldn't put it down. I also saw the trailer for the upcoming movie today at the theaters and am anxious to see the movie. I hope they don't fu
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 4:13:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 4:18:33 PM EDT
Thanks CPL_Punishment, you're right it was the Pakistanis who owned the only armor in town, and refused to endanger their own men by coming to the aid of the ambushed Americans! Eric The(Reminded)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 4:22:14 PM EDT
I'm sure my memory is wrong but I seem to remember the Pakistanis did finally send in armor and at least took in water and took out some wounded. Anyone remember who withheld the on-scene commander's request for our own armor ?
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 4:30:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2001 4:22:51 PM EDT by Tuukka]
Comments by those who were REALLY there [url]http://www.cinemayhem.com/Cineforum/Forum16/HTML/000133.html8[/url] [url]http://www.cinemayhem.com/Cineforum/Forum17/HTML/000068.html[/url] [url]http://www.cinemayhem.com/Cineforum/Forum16/HTML/000114.html[/url] Dig thru those, guys. Fricking links...argh
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 5:21:41 PM EDT
Blackhawk Down is one of the few books i've read twice. Don't buy it- use your local library.
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 7:00:10 PM EDT
The book seemed "real" enough to me. I think there's a sequel in the works...
Link Posted: 12/2/2001 7:50:51 PM EDT
one of the reasons why i asked this question is i saw a documentary about 2 months ago on the public broadcast station. they were actually interviewing some of the men who were part of the specail forces groups that went in to extract the war lord,and this documentary went into some pretty great detail not only the military aspect of the op, but also the political aspect as well. i will get the book and read it,although i am still wondering how acurate the movie will be.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 10:12:02 AM EDT
Like i said there earlier, please visit this [url]http://www.cinemayhem.com/blackhawkdown/index.htm[/url] site and the forums, there are several Task Force Ranger veterans and other soldiers there, you can ask directly about things and just shoot the shit with the crowd there, excellent bunch [;)]
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 4:50:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Canooger: Blackhawk Down is one of the few books i've read twice. Don't buy it- use your local library.
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I agree that the library is a valuable resource, but you should buy the book. Buying the book supports the author, who did his homework and should be rewarded with booksales. IMO, it also supports the troops that were there. By buying the book and reading, you show support by wanting to know what really went on. What they sacrificed for us.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 5:35:05 PM EDT
I have posted this here earlier..but here it goes again. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/036/CO/nj/RK/6X72809.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 6:31:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 7:10:15 PM EDT
Even the author could not put more blame on Clinton than several other government areas. Probably the biggest error Clinton made was to take the experienced diplomat (and leave it under quasi military control) out who later arranged the release of the Blackhawk pilot held captive by the Somalis. When you read the book you realize how much his experience was missed by the military and the political players. Somalia is just another version of Afghanistan, tribal, feudal, and lacking in any way the trappings of a modern society or economy.
Link Posted: 12/3/2001 7:52:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Anyone remember who withheld the on-scene commander's request for our own armor ?
View Quote
We had no armor in theater thanks to Les "Gelding" Aspin and our Rapist in Chief. They thought it would look like we were escalating and provoking the locals if we brought in armor. It has only been known since the 20s and 30s that pacification of built up areas [b]requires[/b] armor. You can buy the Marine Corps' "Small Wars Manual" on Amazon ([url]http://www.amazon.com/dp/0897451120?tag=vglnk-c102-20[/url]) and it was written from the experiences of the men who fought the "Banana Wars in Haiti and Nicaragua against insurgents like Sandino. Common knowledge in the military, and the Secretion of Offense wouldn't allow it because it would be bad PR for our side. Worse PR is having America's sons dragged through the streets, jackass. Also, if I recall correctly, the only reason the Pakis in the APCs and tanks would keep going was because Rangers were in the vehicles with M9s stuck in the drivers' ears.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 12:44:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jack_Of_Some_Trades:
Originally Posted By Canooger: Blackhawk Down is one of the few books i've read twice. Don't buy it- use your local library.
View Quote
I agree that the library is a valuable resource, but you should buy the book. Buying the book supports the author, who did his homework and should be rewarded with booksales. IMO, it also supports the troops that were there. By buying the book and reading, you show support by wanting to know what really went on. What they sacrificed for us.
View Quote
Just learned from Mark Bowden´s brother, who posts on the forum i linked, that 5% of what Mr. Bowden earns from the book, goes to a scholarship fund for the children who lost their fathers that day.
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