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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 11/27/2001 4:32:53 PM EDT
My 5 year old son and I went to Wal-mart yesterday ((after three months of teaching the NRA Eddie Eagle program to him)) in order to fit him for his first BB rifle. After discussing with him that he did not have to get one until he felt ready he decided he would like to give it a shot and learn marksmanship next year. The next day I went to pick him up from pre-school and he said that he was disciplined by the teacher for discussing his Christmas present. From three different discussions (in order to check the facts) here is what I gather from my son: 1. He was talking to several friends about how his dad was going to buy him his first "BB gun" for Christmas and how neat he thought it was. 2. The teacher overheard him and stated the following: A. There is to be no talk of guns at school B. Guns are "bad" C. There is to be no playing of any games that involve guns like cops and robbers, cowboys and indians ect... Now, to underscore this I have chosen to enrol my son in a conservitive CHRISTIAN school. The school has the students say the "Pledge of Allegience" each morning along with singing the "Star Spangled Banner" at some point each week and is avid about promoting the freedoms of our country. Can you all give me some intelligent avenues to take while I discuss this with the administration. Where do I stand legally and morally on this and how should I handle this. I would like to gather my battle plans carefully instead of running in there mad and stupid, and making us all look bad.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:39:18 PM EDT
Have them show you their policies in writing. Ask them to give your child and education not political indoctrination. Teach your child that being an educator does not exclude you from being ignorant.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:40:59 PM EDT
keep it coming.......
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:41:34 PM EDT
There's a never-ending struggle between family and society on how best to brainwash the children, isn't there? I would teach him just the basics of seeing reality how it is, teaching cause and effect, independent critical thinking and questioning authority. I know he's in preschool, but this is way more important to a person's development than trying to control what he believes.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:46:03 PM EDT
point well taken
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:49:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:51:09 PM EDT
that sounds real NICE!
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:57:46 PM EDT
I would put it this way to the Teacher and Principal: If you do not wish discussion of guns at school, then the appropriate means of telling the children that is to say that guns can be DANGEROUS (see note below), and they have to learn to use them safely under their parent's or guardian's instruction. Since they do not teach about guns at school, it is best to leave the talking about them at home. As a conservative Christian school, I would imagine that is the same thing they do about Sex-Ed. Before anyone blows their top, I know the person behind the gun is the Dangerous thing, not the gun itself. However, the subtle nuances of that arguement would be lost on a 5 year old. Easier to start out with guns can be dangerous and let them learn why later on. That arguement can be used with an adult that understands that firearms are inanimate objects with no will of their own.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 4:59:45 PM EDT
He's your son, not hers. Her role is as a teacher, not as a mother. She has no right to talk politics to preschoolers. You may want to inform her that this topic is indeed a political topic, not unlike abortion or drug legalization. Would she discuss those with the kids? They should be learning to read, playing, and sleeping on those corny mats....
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:00:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Have them show you their policies in writing. Ask them to give your child and education not political indoctrination. Teach your child that being an educator does not exclude you from being ignorant.
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Wait a second... He already said he enrolled his child in a "Conservative Christian" school. That throws the arguement about political indoctrination out the with the bathwater. Problem is this... You have enrolled you child in a public/private school. You are blindly assuming (and falsely as well) that the person(s) to whom you have trusted your child's education have your child's best interest at heart. You were wrong. I am not sure why you chose this particular school. I am not sure how you determined they are conservative and christian. I am not even sure what you define as conservative and christian, but obviously this school does not meet the needs, as you have defined them, for your child's education. Find another school, do better research this time, and enroll your child in a school that you have seriously determined to be ideal for your child. Ask yourself this. 1. Did you interview the teacher(s) much as you would an applicant for any other job? 2. The administration? 3. Other parents? 4. Other children? You did not do your job when you selected this school. Your concern NOW about the teacher's attitude, values, standards is proof of this omission. I get really bent about people who complain about their children's teachers not meeting a vague, undefined standard of morals, ethics, and values AFTER their child is enrolled. YOU are the person who is responsible for determining who will educate your child before entrusting their well-being to another. Holidays are coming up. Start now and you will have your child in a better school by New Year's. TheRedGoat/Baphomet 2 years Junior High Teacher 7 years High School Teacher
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:01:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:06:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:11:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DriftPunch: He's your son, not hers. Her role is as a teacher, not as a mother. She has no right to talk politics to preschoolers. You may want to inform her that this topic is indeed a political topic, not unlike abortion or drug legalization. Would she discuss those with the kids? They should be learning to read, playing, and sleeping on those corny mats....
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Welcome to the real world... Everything is political. Don't talk about the politics of drugs, right? Drug Abuse Resistance Education, Just say No, Winners don't do drugs... ad nauseum. All anti-drug campaigns are politically driven. Although I highly doubt a preschool class would discuss abortion, it is a 'christian school' so I suppose an anti-abortion subject would be discussed at some point. As for her 'rights' to talk politics to preschoolers, she has every right. She was hired based upon her philosophy, credentials and abilities. TheRedGoat/Baphomet
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 5:44:06 PM EDT
Governmental citizens have "good" guns, non-governmental citizens have "bad" guns. you gotta know your place in this world. Last year my 5 year old son took a piece of .357 brass to school for show and tell. took it from my loading bench without my knowledge. My wife went to pick him up and the teacher gave her the brass and explained that my son probably should not bring these to school. She was very cool about it. this was a catholic school and i think i really used up a huge chunk of luck on that deal. So what if the pope is polish, I owe.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 8:11:54 PM EDT
All of you have valid points, except the fact that even if i interviewed EVERY pre-K and Kindergarden school around I DOUBT I would find teachers kin to the "eddie eagle" program and of a purely constitutionalist viewpoint. But looking is a good idea. I could have a calm discussion with them and offer to do a presentation to the kids and/or implement the eddie eagle program, I'm assuming they teach kids not to play with matches ect... If they rebuke it I might type up a nice cover letter to the parents explaining the situation and include a copy of the eddie eagle program for them to review and contact me if they want additional info about the program. I could hand it out on morning just off property as parents drop off thier kids to school and see what happens. Maybe enough parents will be sensible enough to realize that forcing an agenda of good gun/bad gun has no place at school but SAFETY does....hmmm..comments please. 47
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 8:31:23 PM EDT
btt....THANKS GUYS!
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 8:56:51 PM EDT
I would suggest a different tactic. GET THE BITCH FIRED! You are PAYING for this school. It is NOT public school. Express to the Principal in no uncertain terms that this is NOT the kind of education you are seeking for your son. Let them know that her "punishing" your son is unnaceptable and if NOT corrected you and your money will go elsewhere.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 9:06:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 47: All of you have valid points, except the fact that even if i interviewed EVERY pre-K and Kindergarden school around I DOUBT I would find teachers kin to the "eddie eagle" program and of a purely constitutionalist viewpoint. But looking is a good idea. I could have a calm discussion with them and offer to do a presentation to the kids and/or implement the eddie eagle program, I'm assuming they teach kids not to play with matches ect... If they rebuke it I might type up a nice cover letter to the parents explaining the situation and include a copy of the eddie eagle program for them to review and contact me if they want additional info about the program. I could hand it out on morning just off property as parents drop off thier kids to school and see what happens. Maybe enough parents will be sensible enough to realize that forcing an agenda of good gun/bad gun has no place at school but SAFETY does....hmmm..comments please. 47
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Could work. Maybe. But go to the school principle first, in a diplomatic fashion. That will put you in good graces with the "warden", your kid's cell block guard's/indoctrinator's/teacher's boss. Try to tilt the discussion towards the, "...It's part of my culture, heritage, upbringing, etc.," ideology - which is precisely the truth. Let them know that you don't wish to cause a disruption in the school, and that you don't want the same to happen to your family in regards to your son's ideology, values, etc.
Link Posted: 11/27/2001 9:28:12 PM EDT
47 it sounds like you are taking a an active part in your son's formative years and that's great. I don't really have any advice on how to deal with the incident other than maybe having a meeting with the teacher involved and explaining to her your views of guns and their place in our society past and present. Its not her/his job to teach guns are bad or good. If she/he wants to teach morals of not harming someone that would be okay such that is taught through Christainity. I love to hear about the Eddie Eagle Program being used, it sounds like it a good decision. As soon as your son is able to read you might want to instill a good reading habit with some books on the Revolutionary War and other related subjects that are in the library. Maybe read to him some of the stories like Paul Revere, Battle of Bunker Hill, Boston Tea Party, Rogers Rangers, Washington fording the Delaware River and attacking the Hessians at Trenton. You can get as detailed as you think your son can handle and maybe use them as bed time stories. I got influenced early in my life because I was born on the 4th of July. I had red, white, and blue drapes. Bed spread with Minutemen on it. Little toy muskets and other stuff. 47 it sounds like you are doing a fine job in raising a great son and great American Citizen. No Slack!
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:31:22 PM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:44:00 PM EDT
47, Another way to approach the school's teachers and board is to politely explain to them your belief in the 2nd amendment, your belief, support of your son having a BB gun and why you chose to buy him one. While you explain this, make it clear that you understand their concern of the dangers firearms can bring, BUT it must be also be clear to them that it is YOUR, YOUR SON's and even their own right to bear arms and your right to teach your son the benefit and sport of firearms. Let them know that their banning of talk of guns is unconstitutional and contradicts the teaching of America's laws and freedoms. Perhaps in a subtle way, ask them when they have the students say the "Pledge of Allegiance" and singing the "Star Spangled Banner" if the meaning of them is supposed to mean something to the students or if these "patriotic" pledges and songs are just "routine, flavor-of-the-day" pastimes. Whether this school is a private/public, Christian/non-Christian school, it is not of their interest to push their belief into their students that their basic constitutional rights like owning or speaking about guns is "bad". The school is there to teach, not to "parent" the students. Recommend the NRA's EDDIE EAGLE program to them, that will teach the school children firearm responsibility rather than firearm hatred. [b]ArmaLiter[/b]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:11:44 PM EDT
Tell your son that even though he is only 5, you now have to explain to him that there are evil people in this world and that some of them get jobs as teachers. They do this in order to make children believe that they should not have guns or even think about defending or protecting what they love and what is important. That if these evil people can make enough children think this, then when they grow up they can make them slaves. Tell him that is why you are getting him a gun and teaching him to shoot. So the world will not become the bad place that his teacher wants it to be. Then post the teacher and school's name, phone number, e-mail, and any personal information you have on this site and on Free Republic along with the story. I have been tracking a lot of these cases and I am making it a policy to at least e-mail the school and slam them in no uncertain terms whenever possible. Just tonight on Hannity & Colmes they had a day care owner who had been penalized by the State of North Carolina for having 9 (nine) little green 2" tall plastic Army guys in the play area. As radical as my reaction sounds, I have come to the conclusion that these idiots must be hit and hit hard and hit again until they back down. The stakes are too high.
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 4:49:14 AM EDT
this always made me wonder that if they actually taught gun safety/shooting at schools the kids would get 'bored' with it like every other class and they (guns) would not be such a big deal anymore. There are a couple of schools on the planet that do this, and i would bet my left nut that they have never nor will ever have a shooting.
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 4:54:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Baphomet: Wait a second... He already said he enrolled his child in a "Conservative Christian" school. That throws the arguement about political indoctrination out the with the bathwater.
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Does anyone else see this paragraph as funny? If a school is described as "Conservative Christian", there will certainly be "political indoctrination" going on. The problem here, is that the WRONG type of "political indoctrination" is taking place.
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 6:16:51 AM EDT
I am an endowment member in the NRA. I have a son in preschool, in a private school, also. After finding out that the school had no policy about addressing students questions concerning firearms I called NRA's Eddie Eagle Program and they sent me a educators info pack. I then confronted the schools administrators asking them to consider teaching the program to the lower school grades, I also have a girl in third grade.After all, I told them, you teach about the danger of drugs & sex and what to do or not to do if confronted with them. The Eddie Eagle Program is a nonpolitical tool to teach children what to do if they find a gun. The responce from the school has been very positive and they are thinking about adding it to their cirriculum. I think most schools teachers and administrators don't know how to deal with the gun issue and children so naturally their own opinions and feelings enter into their reactons when asked about guns by a child. The Eddie Eagle Program gives them a way out,although some people have a problem with it just because it comes from that "devil" NRA organization. Order the program from the NRA and give it to your school to consider. If you are not a member of the NRA join NOW!
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