The first person who can post the words to Hezekiah 2:5, will receive post paid, a pre ban 20 round AR mag.

The clock is ticking!!![O:)]

heh heh... Hezekiah

Juggernaut


Edited to add-

Jer. 17:7

Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him.

Juggernaut

I just couldn't resist.  

Read the book of James.  Read the book of James again, it isn't that long.  All your spirituality problems will be solved.

Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
James 4:9

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
But God demonstates His own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans chapter 5 verse 6-8

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Psalms 119
 (It is much too long to post here, but none the less, take the time to read it)

Matt 28:18-20
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

John 5:19-20
 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless {it is} something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

And finally:

John 8:28 - latter part of the verse, Jesus speaking to his diciples
 "...and I do nothing on My own initiative."

Whoa!

"Split a piece of wood; I am there.  Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."

Stop stalking me, you psycho! [peep]

Baptists may not like this,... but the words are not mine... they are the Lords.... enjoy the truth... for those who can!

MK 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.
Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Not sprinkled... not poured.... not drenched... but buried in baptism.... sorry but Christ wants his people buried into the likeness of his death...!

Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1 Corinthians 6:15

[size=4]"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." (Ezekiel 23:20)[/size=4]

Interesting perspective, provacative too.  It does raise a question though.  What was John the Baptist doing with all those people at the river then??

edited to add:  Was Christ all confused when he asked John to baptize him too?

[newbie]

Ran across this verse recently, and found it interesting, due to a number of questions here about the charachter of God, whether He is loving, or judgmental.

[b]Psalm 99:8

"You answered them, o Lord our God; you were a God that forgave them, though you took vengeance on their wicked deeds."[/b]

In short, God is BOTH all loving, and all judging. Kinda like ANY parent out there that can BOTH love their children, and yet punish them for their wrong doing, in a loving effort to guide them towards what is right. In fact, guiding others toward right is the preeminent form of showing love.


ALL this is NOT surprising, as we were made in God's image. (Genesis 1)

Also, was Christ wrong when He promised the thief on the cross (who never had opportunity to be baptized) "Today you will be with Me in paradise." ????

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1 Samuel 15:3

Hey, Renamed -

What's with the carpet bombing of contextually sensitive verses???

[;)]

Garandman, my keyboard runneth over. [:D]

This thread would only be a page long if we limited ourselves to the "popular favorites".

Hardly true, my friend.

Quotes from Jesus alone would make this a "babe of the Day" length thread.

Just curious - what is your source? Some Bible software????

My source is the King James version, searched via [url]http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?[/url] .

BTW, if you want to see some real carpet bombing, I could start posting all the verses that contain the word "begat". [;)]

Intersting point.

Whiel generally regarded as Bible "filler" these "begat" verses are SOME of the most important in Scripture, as they establish a geneological, historical, legal and official lineage from Christ back to David, Abraham, even Adam.

Speak not in the ears of a fool; for he will despise the wisdom of your words. Proverbs 23:9[;)]

If Jesus was the son of God, then why would a human geneology be important?  Wouldn't a simple "God begat Jesus" suffice?

Christ's association with King David is CRITICAL in establishing His right to rule on David's throne as King (primarily jewish in nature) . Christs association with Abraham was necessary to establish a family tree of "Believers" that would encompass all men (Gentiles also) Christs association as the Son of God was necessary to show he was a suitable sacrifice for mans sins. Without gettin into a HUGE explanation, this was ALL important in the "big picture" of God's plan for saving ALL of mankind.

A thorough discussion of this is beyond the scope of this forum. But yours is an excellent question, a full understanding of which would bring BOTH of us closer to God.

If you really want to know and are not flamming[rolleyes].................

God used the blood line of David and Abraham to bless them,there great men of God and there not the only ones in that line .
Noah and his sons lived good lives and God  blessed there place in history.

Genesis 9:8 Then God spoke to Noah and his sons with him,saying.
"Now behold,I myself do establish my covenant with you and your descendants after you."


God wanted every one to know Jesus is his son but at that time he wanted everbody to know he really was a man too,this is Jesus's blood line as a man.

ISAIAH 40:31
But they that wait upon the [b]LORD[b/] shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

JAMES 1:8
A double minded man is unstalble in all his ways.

JAMES 3:8,9&10
But the tongue can on man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Therewith bless we GOD, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of GOD.
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethen, these things ought not so to be.

See Luke 22:36 above.

John 14:15 If you love me you will keep my commandments.[stick]

The credits on the last page go to the guys that set this wheel of cash into motion.Now the largest property owner,richest Corporation.,Tax free I might add....organization that proclaims chasity and poverty and practices neither.[rolleyes]And they always NEED that extra collection! F__Kem

Hmmmm..... thief on the cross again.... typical non argument. Christ is the owner of his spiritual goods.... being that Christ might do whatever he wished with his belongings... WHO are YOU to deny Christ granting dispensation to a thief?? Dont think you are going to get it that way.... The Word (which is Christ by the way) is Jesus, and in the word, refer to my previous post... it specifically calls for baptism. You must be born of both water and the spirit.

Spiritual baptism and water baptism are inseperable, they are the same thing and constitute spiritual rebirth ... ie.. being born again. Christ supplies the spiritual rebirth while we, by doing his will, provide the vehicle for this to occur... some kind of body of water anywhere.
MK 16:16
Acts 2:38
Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21
Gal 3:27

It is good to raise awareness thru this board, that faith without works is dead.
Believe
Repent
Be baptized
Be saved !!

As for John... he came to prepare the way for Christ... He who would baptize with the spirit. Johns baptism was alerting the people that Christ was coming and would be baptizing with the holy spirit. And for a human to obtain the spiritual baptism of Christ on any given day... he must be baptized.... buried in the likeness of Christs death... so that he might rise in the newness of life. So simple and yet so many will risk eternal life by insisting that Christ, the son of God, was/is confused about what he demanded of us as Christians. Thats a heartbreaker.

As far as being a "Newbie", I may be here... but to the word of Christ... I am in no wise new...

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:4

What does it mean to be "buried with him by baptism into death"?  Is this something that doesn't translate well from the original language?

Let the survivors be consumed in a fiery wrath, and may those who harm your people come to destruction.

Sirach 36:11

Post from garandman -

I have several problems with this statement - the very first of which - how do you know the penitent thief had not been baptized? The Bible doesn't tell us that this thief was not baptized!

I mean, John the Baptist, 'baptized many', so how do you know that the penitent thief was not among the many?

Next, the penitent thief died under the Law, not during the Christian dispensation, but under the law of Moses, and the previous laws of the Patriarchs. So his asking God for forgiveness at the end of his life would have been sufficient!

And, , the most important thing to remember about Jesus' treatment of the penitent thief is that, well, Jesus [b]is[/b] the Holder of the Keys of Heaven and Hell.

Full immersion water baptism of adult believers is the first or only two sacraments ordained by Christ, the other being communion.

When Nicodemus came to Jesus by night and asked Him what must be done to inherit eternal life, Jesus answered this simple question with a simple answer - [red][b]'Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be [u]born of water[/u] and [u]of the Spirit[/u], he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.'[/b][/red]

Now, praytell, how does a man be 'born of water', except through a ritual cleansing, that Christ referred to as accomplishing 'all righteousness' when He permitted Himself to be water baptized by John the Baptist?

And how do you reconcile a 'no baptism necessary' view with Mark 16:16? [red][b]'He that believeth [u]and is baptized[/u] shall be saved.'[/b][/red]

I mean, He is the Author of our salvation, shouldn't the Author's words always be looked to in determining the meaning of some part of the story?

And can you find one example from Luke's Acts of the Apostles, wherein full immersion baptism was not immediately performed once the person was 'saved'?

Eric The(ChurchOfChrist,OfCourse!)Hun[>]:)]

Buried in the likeness of his death.....

this is the reason you cannot be sprinkled or poured..... only full immersion.... just like Jesus died and was buried and rose again on the 3rd day.... you are buried in water... and rise in the newness of life in Christ. You cant be buried in rain...


Agonizingly simple... Christ intended that his word would be written in the vernacular... normal everyday language... it is simplicity that man has obfusticated because this rock bottom simplicity does not sit well with most peoples need for pomp and circumstance. Christ was a dirt poor carpenter.... no palaces, no pompous clergy, no statues ... no buildings even...  

And yes Eric, if you did not already guess it, I too am a member of the body of Christ CofC : )

And no books. [;)]

Not really a bible verse, but this works anyway:

From the book Black Hawk Down...

The bullet that hit Neatherly had torn through his bicep. There was a lot of blood. Doc Richard Strous clamly examined it as Neatherly looked up at Thomas.

"Damn Sergeant, I hope they send me home for this."

"Does it hurt?" Thomas asked.

"Hell yeah! I'm alright though, I do believe in God."

"That's ok," said Thomas. "He believes in you too."

Well, John the Baptist baptised unto repentance (I can't think of the reference right now, and I'm at work, so I don't have my Word handy...) not unto salvation, so I don't think this argument would hold.

Secondly, Baptisim is not necessary for salvation because - we have no record of the disciples being baptized... nor Abraham - and we know that the Lord counted his [b]faith[/b] unto him as righteousness...

Grace alone, Scripture alone, Faith alone.



Well, because following that it simply says that "he that believeth not shall be damned"  Not he that beliveth not, or believeth and isn't baptized, shall be damned"



Now don't get me wrong here, Eric... I personally have an issue with the infant baptism practiced by my church - which I've come to after many hours of study and discussion with both of my fathers (you know what I mean [:)]), but I don't think baptism is absolutely needed for salvation - for the reasons expressed above - your statements regarding being under the law vs. under Grace notwithstanding - because if that were true then your statements would support infant baptism, because a child that dies before baptism would bot be saved... and we know that isn't true from the story of David and his son by Bathsheba.  I [b]do[/b] think it is preferred - as it is (at least to me) more than symbolic.  And yes, there is no instance in the scripture of anyone [i]not[/i] being baptised after being saved.

j(AreMyLutheranRootsShowingYet?)hasz

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 15:5

Sorry jhaz ?sp?

Faith without works is dead. Works alone wont do it either. Inseperable. Sorry.

You obviously did not care much for the scriptures demanding baptism so you just threw them out. You know, Jesus didnt know what he wanted, he did not mean for those lil' words to get in your way.

As for infants... unless you become such as these... you will in no wise see the kingdom...

Children are pure until they reach the age of accountability. They do not know sin and therefore require nothing. Anybody that can possibly think to twist the bible to mean a child is depraved in any way is gone far from the truth.

Paul himself was baptized, was he or was he not one of the greatest apostles????? He, thru Christ, is one of the chief authors of the New Testament. Look up his conversion and deny that he was baptized or that he believed anything other than that.

Curious, why would you deny that Christ requires baptism... in the great commission he said go do it.... it doesnt hurt and is a relatively quick procedure... if you believe in Christ, truly, you will do as he asks... to do anything other than that is to not believe.

Close - jhasz [:)]

If the tone of the rest of this appears to be a bit defensive, so be it - you sir have accused me of removing a portion of scripture - and I have not.


You have managed to read my post wrong.  I did not address the issue of works for a very good reason - Works do not cause faith, works are a [b]result[/b] of faith, since we were discussing how one becomes saved works has not entered into it. What works did the thief on the  cross do in conjunction with his faith that saved him?


No, I didn't say I didn't care for baptism, once again you failed reading comprehension... I said I had a problem with [b]infant[/b] baptism.  Yes, Christ did say "He that beleives and is baptised shall be saved"... but he also said "he that [b]believeth[/b] not shall be damned"  - not ", or believeth and is not baptised", implying that if you do believe it is sufficient.  and I didn't throw them out.

Anyone that forgets Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me" and thinks that children do not know sin obviously doesn't have any. (is that a general enough statement for you?)  Children are [b]not[/b] pure until they reach the age of accountability (and byond) - else why are there children committing murder?  Yet the Lord has seen fit to take those that are not of the age of accountability to heaven - 2 Samuel 12:23:"But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." (David speaking about the first son he and Bathsheba had - that died within a short time after being born)

As for the "such as" verse, (Matthew 18:3) "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven") yes, unless I have [b]faith[/b] as a child.  How could the adults he was speaking to become little children?  THis has nothing to do with baptism... and is the verse my church leans on to support infant baptism...

(continued)

I don't deny that Paul was baptised - I didn't say the apostles weren't baptised, I said the disciples weren't - and yes, there is a difference (meaning the [i]original[/i] disciples.) unless you count that washing of the feet thing at the last supper... but then that would argue against immersion, wouldn't it?

Oh, and it wasn't Paul through Christ, it was Christ through Paul...

Well, not from Paul, but from Peter:
1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God

Note the word "Symbolizes"  This baptism sybolizes the pledge of a good conscience toward God.


No, I never said I deny that Christ wants us to be baptised.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,...

But it appears that we are to make disciples first - can you be a disciple without faith?  and [b]then[/b] baptize...

I just believe that the Bible states "Justified by faith" - [b]that[/b] justification is that which is presented before the Father - indeed is the justification of the ultimate sacrifice, Christ Himself, as the only atoning power for sin.  If [i]I[/i] must actually do something then I am capable of boasting... to wit:

Romans 3:27-29 (NIV)
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

There you have it, Grace alone (The grace of God  in His Love), Scripture alone (the very Word of God - Christ Himself, as well), Faith alone (Faith in the atoning sacrifice of the Lamb of God - Jesus Christ, worked through the power of the Holy Spirit)

j(TheLordIsMyRockAndMySalvationInWhomShallITrust)hasz - with apologies to ETH

No I did not imply you believed in infant baptism, must try to be clearer in the future.. ooops.

Hmmmm..... back to the thief on the cross again. I dont intend to try and teach a pig to sing.... it wastes your time and annoys the pig. You intend to disbelieve the Word, so be it. If you think faith alone will get you there, then have at it. I will follow the Word which is Christ, please do as you like, Christ does not demand anybody to do anything.... unless they wish to follow him. Guess what I am gonna do?

Mt 28.19
Mk 16.16
Acts 2.38
Acts 10.48
Acts 22.16

You choose to ignore the Word at your eternal peril Jhasz, class is now dismissed.

Even though you wish to seperate faith and baptism in the act of being saved... you cant do it, Christ joined them irrevocably. You may continue this argument with the Lord, since it is his word you dispute... I try and accept his word and act on it.

Dram over/out

Nope, you didn't imply that I believed in infant baptism, you implied that I didn't believe in baptism at all!

Watch it with the singing analogies - I happen to sing semi-professionally (sorta on the farm team right now)

Guess what?  you need to have faith [b]first[/b] to follow Him.  I do not dis-believe the Word.  Imagine this... a "Man of God" preacher, preist, whatever, walking through  the materniry ward of a hospital, either grabbing kids from the bassinets and dunking them in a bucket (full immersion) or sprinkling them with water (as the Lutherans and a few others do) as fits whatever you believe to be the proper manner - are all those kids saved?  I think not.  Even those in the NT that were batized, [b]believed[/b] first - then were baptized.

In other words, you are saying that the man on a battlefield, mortally wounded, having heard the Word previously, finally calls out to God, believing in His Son, Jesus Christ for the forgivenss of his sins just before he dies - he won't get into heaven because he's not baptized?!?  No Salvation is by Grace alone, [b]Scripture[/b] alone, Faith alone.


Well, finally some references - I was beginning to have my doubts about you - no quotes or attributions - snippets of verses... but now, I'll have to look these up and get back to you - OK?

Um, lose the condecending attitude, ok?  And I do not ignore the Word at all.  I have been studying scripture for nearly 40 years... so you are making a mistake when you assume you know my standing with the Lord.

I'll get back to you on your verses ... my guess is that you are interpreting them out of context, but I won't assume anything at this point - cause you just [i]might[/i] be right...

Jhasz,

Not trying to be condescending, sorry... mea culpa mea culpa.

You are catching on... it is the height of silliness to snatch babies and dunk them. You must be an adult who knows the diff between good/evil. And yes... first comes belief, always.

The singing pig thing is just my fave quote from a well known author on the idea of futile actions.... not meant at you... ya' golden piped young scalliwag.  :P

The supposition of the battlefield, car wreck, ship wreck... does not hold any water. God knows all correct? Can he not see through this? You have your whole life to come to Jesus, those that have ears to hear, let them hear. If you knew enough to claim Jesus as your savior on your deathbed then you good and well knew to do it beforehand. Yes? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. The acceptable time is NOW. Besides, Christ judges perfectly, and if something merits eternal life that is not written in the Book, then thats none of my business. I will speak where the bible speaks and stay silent where it stays silent.

Scripture???? READ MY POSTS... it is full of scripture by verse. And no, they are quite in context.

Believe that Jesus is the son of God.
Know that He died for your sins.
Repent and turn away from your previous life.
Be buried with Christ in baptism to rise again and walk in the newness of life.

And that is how you are saved.

Believe #1
Repent #2
Be Baptized #3

Christ saves you, the water does nothing more than serve as the Christ chosen symbol of his death and that you die to the world in the same way as him, by being buried in water, infants need not apply. An infant cannot believe in anything. ( had to throw that in :) )

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Jules, pulp fiction version of Ezekiel 25:17

Post from jhasz -

We don't have a record of a lot of folks in the New Testament being baptized either, but you can be certain they were.

As for Abraham, he died under the Law of the Patriarchs, when there was no such thing as full immersion water baptism into the Body of Christ.

Abraham, during his lifetime, never once confessed that Jesus Christ was the Son of the Living God, either. Do you believe that you can get into heaven without making such a declaration?

But still, just explain what the unambiguous statement that Jesus made about being born of water and the spirit means? Is it not obvious that He means water baptism and the holy spirit baptism that accompanies it?

No, no, no. Believing, Repenting, Confessing, Being Baptized, and Continuing in His Goodness alone. That is what saves a soul.

[b]You are right, that is precisely what it says, because IF YOU [u]DON'T[/u] [u]BELIEVE[/u], IT 'DON'T MEAN A THING' THAT YOU'VE BEEN BAPTIZED! BAPTISM AVAILS AN UNBELIEVER NOTHING![/b]

Well, I don't ask you to take my words for it, just continue to research what Jesus meant when He said that [u]unless[/u] you were born of water and the spirit you could not enter into the Kingdom of God!

Consider the situation, a Ruler of Israel has come to a young Rabbi at night (so that no one would see him consulting Jesus), and asked the Author of Salvation what was necessary for him to be saved. And Jesus told him the Truth, and the conversation was recounted by John to permit Jesus to tell us this Truth. Today. Now.

And THAT should tell you everything you need to know about how the Apostles, the Disciples, and the Church Fathers thought about Jesus' commandment to baptize all nations in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

And yet those very children of whom Jesus was speaking we know for a fact were NOT baptized!

The death of Christ on the Cross at Calvary and the Blood that He shed there saves all the children everywhere, for all time.

When a child reaches the age of discernment, however, he comes under the same requirements as everyone else!

But I cherish your investigation of this issue and hopefully we can talk about it again at length!

Eric The(BaptizedAndBaptizing)Hun[>]:)]

And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
1st John 5:11-14

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luke 10:25-28

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:13