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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 11/23/2001 2:28:52 PM EDT
"But...but...but...it is only supposed to be used against non-citizens." HAHAHA!!!! Ya and I have a truckload of NIW 30 round M16 mags for sale at $3 each. Operation Enduring Freedom???? Try [b]OPERATION ERODING FREEDOM[/b] ---- New Federal Patriot Act Turns Retailers into Spies against Customers By Scott Bernard Nelson, The Boston Globe Nov 20, 2001 2:18 AM Nov. 18--Ordinary businesses, from bicycle shops to bookstores to bowling alleys, are being pressed into service on the home front in the war on terrorism. Under the USA Patriot Act, signed into law by President Bush late last month, they soon will be required to monitor their customers and report "suspicious transactions" to the Treasury Department -- though most businesses may not be aware of this. Buried in the more than 300 pages of the new law is a provision that "any person engaged in a trade or business" has to file a government report if a customer spends $10,000 or more in cash. The threshold is cumulative and applies to multiple purchases if they're somehow related -- three $4,000 pieces of furniture, for example, might trigger a filing. Until now, only banks, thrifts, and credit unions have been required to report cash transactions to the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, under the Bank Secrecy Act of 1970. A handful of other businesses, including car dealers and pawnbrokers, have to file similar reports with the Internal Revenue Service. "This is a big deal, and a big change, for the vast majority of American businesses," said Joe Rubin, chief lobbyist for the US Chamber of Commerce. "But I don't think anybody realizes it's happened." The impact is less clear for consumers, although privacy advocates are uncomfortable with the thought of a massive database that could bring government scrutiny on innocent people. Immigrants and the working poor are the most likely to find themselves in the database, since they tend to use the traditional banking system the least. "The scope of this thing is huge," said Bert Ely, a financial services consultant in Alexandria, Va. "It's going to affect literally millions of people." The filing of so-called suspicious activity reports, though, is only the latest in a series of law enforcement moves the government has made in response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. And so far, the filing requirement has been overshadowed by debate over the other changes. The Patriot Act signed into law Oct. 26, for example, gives the government a vast arsenal of surveillance tools, easier access to personal information, and increased authority to detain and deport noncitizens. House and Senate negotiators came to terms Thursday on a bill that would add 28,000 employees to the federal payroll in an effort to bolster airport security, and Attorney General John Ashcroft has said he is reorganizing the Justice Department and the FBI to focus on counterterrorism efforts.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 2:29:38 PM EDT
(continued) As for the business-filing requirement, specifics about what companies have to do and when they have to do it still need to be worked out. The Treasury Department has until March 25 -- the date the Patriot Act becomes law -- to issue regulations about how to put the new rules into practice. "The law itself doesn't go into any detail, because you'd presume that's what the Treasury regulations are for," said Victoria Fimea, senior counsel at the American Council of Life Insurers. "And the devil, of course, is in the details." When he signed the legislation, President Bush said the new rules were designed to "put an end to financial counterfeiting, smuggling, and money laundering." The problem, he and others have said, was keeping tabs on the billions of dollars that flow outside the traditional banking system and across national borders each year. Money launderers often disguise the source of their money by using cash to buy pricey things. Later, they can resell the products and move the money into a bank account -- at which point it has been laundered, or made to look legitimate, by the aboveboard sale. Making a series of transactions just below the $10,000 filing threshold is also illegal under the new law if it's done to keep a business from contacting the government. Financial services companies such as banks, insurers, and stock brokerages face a higher standard under the new law than other businesses. In addition to the filing requirements, they have to take steps such as naming a compliance officer and implementing a comprehensive program to train employees about how to spot money laundering. Unlike other businesses, though, most financial services companies already have a process in place to deal with government regulation. "Certainly for the bigger [insurance] companies, they most likely are already tooled up for this," said Fimea. "For other companies, this creates a whole new landscape." James Rockett, a San Francisco lawyer who represents banks and insurance companies in disputes with regulators, said he's skeptical the authorities will get any useful information from reports filed by nonfinancial companies. "You're trying to turn an untrained populace into the monitors of money laundering activity," Rockett said. "If you want to stop this, it's got to be done with police work, not tracking consumers' buying habits." Voices opposing any of the new law-enforcement measures appear to be in the minority, however. For now, at least, few people and few companies want to be perceived as being terrorist sympathizers. "In a political sense, it would have been very hard for us to go to Congress in this case and loudly argue that the legislation shouldn't include nonfinancial-services guys," said Rubin, of the US Chamber of Commerce. "Everybody wants to help and to stop money laundering right now." Scott Bernard Nelson can be reached by e-mail at nelson@globe.com. To see more of The Boston Globe, or to subscribe to the newspaper, go to http://www.boston.com/globe (c) 2001, The Boston Globe. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News. Copyright © iSyndicate Inc 2001
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 2:33:49 PM EDT
unbelievable!!![):)]
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 2:45:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 2:48:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2001 2:43:26 PM EDT by HighlandMac]
If you have ever bought a motorcycle or a car and used more than $10,000 in cash as a deposit or total purchase price you already have had this form filled out on you. This isnt really all that new, the new provision is the multiple transaction part. I have had to fill out this form less then 5 times in the 8 years I have been in the automotive business. This only applies to people who use cash. If you write a chech it is no big deal and nothing is different and nothing is reported. How many people really use $10,000 or more in a cash transaction? Almost none, because the check that they have weighs al hell of a lot less, and takes up less room in your wallet than $10,000 in cash. Also, it is illeagal for a business to tell a person they need to spend less then the $10k in cash so they dont have to fill out the form. So before everyone gets excited this only pertains to people who use CASH in their transactions. In reality it is a BS law but most people write checks so it doesnt matter. In fact when someone gives me more than $5k in cash it seems odd to me why they dont just write a check unless they are hiding something. [beer] If you really want to freak out the person who you spend the $10k with, ask them "So, you aren't going to fill out one of those Form 8300 for this deal are you?" and look nervous!!
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 2:49:11 PM EDT
Makes me want to go get a $10,000 loan and just go around buying expensive stuff and taking it back for a refund only to use the same money to go buy something else to take back. HEY!!! This sounds like a great operation for the AR15.com Army! That should overload their system! Michael
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 2:56:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2001 2:50:14 PM EDT by operatorerror]
Hey Imbro, Do you have any more of those NIW AR mags for sale? I'll take a couple. Oh, and did you see Survivor last night? I like being safe.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 2:58:19 PM EDT
I always love hearing the rationalizations of new big brother laws. Throw in a few more laws like this and the national id card then the U.S. will become a cashless society where government can control what and how much you buy because then everyone will be afraid to use LEGAL TENDER. In the near future: "But...but...but...it only will affect people who buy more than 2 lbs. of smokeless powder (or the equivalent in ammunition) a year..."
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 3:07:15 PM EDT
Coming soon to a roadblock near you: Your papers please!!! Balming
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 3:17:24 PM EDT
Ya I was forced to watch 5 hours of CBS last night and saw my first ever episode of Survivor. It was just like they emptied out the clientele from a Starbucks, threw in a few people from a thrift store and put them in a zoo. I just am not interested in these yuppie type of (false) reality shows.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 10:03:08 PM EDT
That is absolutely the most accurate and succinct description of Survivor that I have ever read!
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 10:07:29 PM EDT
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