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VTHOKIESHOOTER
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Posted: 12/2/2009 3:25:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By turdferguson:
I carry a glock, and other than adding some big dot sights to it, it's stock. I never have any problems hitting targets with it, provided I use my fundamentals.

The trigger is fine if you use proper trigger control, the slide stop is just that, a stop, NOT a release, you are supposed to rack the slide after reloading, it's easier to do under stress, and it gives the slide more of a running start. The mag release is meant to be a little out of reach, you are meant to have to adjust your grip slightly to drop the mag, that way it doesn't pop out under stress.


Of course the sights suck, andthe grip angle, and size aren't ideal for some people, but that's why you try it on for size before you buy.

Unfortunately my large, freakish hands put just about every slide release within thumbs reach and the result is always a gun that never locks back on last shot. I've been working on my grip a lot but damn....

BTW I've adopted the Larry Vickers approach of releasing the slide release with the weak hand while you insert the mag. It is supper fast and easy.
Ron Paul was right
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Posted: 12/2/2009 3:47:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2009 3:48:15 PM EST by John_Wayne777]
Originally Posted By turdferguson:
the slide stop is just that, a stop, NOT a release, you are supposed to rack the slide after reloading, it's easier to do under stress, and it gives the slide more of a running start.


I don't mean to attack or disrespect you, but every part of that sentence is wrong.

1. Slide RELEASES can be used as RELEASES and are called RELEASES by several manufacturers.
2. You are not "supposed" to rack the slide after reloading...there are lots of people who teach using the slide RELEASE. To assert that there is only one proper way of doing it is absurd.
3. It is NOT easier to do "under stress" as anything that involves more movement than just flicking your thumb is going to be harder to do under stress. We can pull triggers under stress, hit magazine buttons under stress, retrieve a new magazine under stress, and insert a relatively square peg into a slightly larger square hole under stress, but when it comes time to drop the slide we suddenly lose our minds and are unable to hit a lever? I think not. That's just a bunch of gun magazine BS that's been repeated endlessly as fact, and as such lots of people who don't know any better regurgitate it as fact.

...but don't take my word for it. How about listening to what Kyle Defoor (former DEVGRU SEAL, former lead instructor for Blackwater USA, currently an instructor with Tiger Swan) has to say about it:


Firstly, I do not use the slingshot method anymore. I switched over permanantly around summer of 2005. The reason is fourfold.

Number one- I now grip all handguns with my strong hand thumb laid over on my support hand, just a smidge. This is mainly for Sigs, as the release lever is so far to the rear. I keep it the same on all pistols so that I always get slide lock. We have to shoot different pistols sometimes weekly. Bottom line is its simpler, and faster.

Number two- I've measured the size of an average mag release button and an average slide release button. The slide release is at a minimum 3X bigger. I no longer buy the argument that you can hit the mag release, and then .005 seconds later you lose your mind and can't find the slide release. Doesn't hold water.

Number three- Around 2005, when I started shooting with Bill Go a lot getting ready for IDPA/IPSC type functions, I realized that my biggest weakness was emergency reloads. I simply could not keep up, even though I would be ahead on hits. I can?/could slingshot as fast as I think is possible just because of the fact that's what the Teams do, but, I can use the slide release and at a minimum its .65 sec faster.

Number four - As far as I know, John (Shaw) started this whole thing in the early eighties when the Teams started going there. All the old timers have told me that it was mainly because at that time we didn't spend a lot of time on pistols, flight gloves were the tightest glove around, and water/cold (remember, this is pre-9/11) on shipboardings were the biggest worry in regards to reloads. In comparision, Jerry (Barnhardt) would cringe when the training department at each Team, especially The Command, would ask him to teach it to us that way.

I equate this to bypassing the bolt release on an M4. Just not the best idea. We shoot/teach here more than most (96,000 rds for me last year) and see it all on a weekly basis, and I'm a firm beleiver in using the slide release now, no matter how you do it (support thumb on 1911, master thumb on others)


...and if that's not enough, I can point to three or four other instructors who served in Tier 1 units that teach using the slide release, as well as dozens of people who have done it in an actual gunfight.

So please, ARFCOM, no more of this "You can't use a slide release under stress!" nonsense. It's giving me a rash.



The mag release is meant to be a little out of reach, you are meant to have to adjust your grip slightly to drop the mag, that way it doesn't pop out under stress.


The problem with the Glock stock release is that it's often difficult to press it in far enough to eject the empty mag. The Vickers release (again...Vickers is former 1st SOFD-D, and they use Glock pistols. Clue.) is designed to make that ejection more sure, and it has the added side effect of requiring less shifting in the hand to get the mag out. This means it's that much easier to get the gun back up and running. The less you have to shift your grip the more control you are going to have after the reload. I can document that by running 10 shooters through a drill and then looking again at their speed and accuracy after they are forced to do a speed reload. The beauty of the Vickers release is that it is specifically designed not to be so large that it easily jettisons the magazine at inopportune times.

I've been using the Vickers releases for years on my Glocks without issue, even when using the weapon with a handheld light.


Of course the sights suck, andthe grip angle, and size aren't ideal for some people, but that's why you try it on for size before you buy.


Unfortunately I've found that I can't really know how a gun will work for me until I've put a couple of thousand rounds downrange with it. Initial impressions are often way off the mark.
It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. - George Washington

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macman37
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Posted: 12/2/2009 3:51:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
We can pull triggers under stress, hit magazine buttons under stress, retrieve a new magazine under stress, and insert a relatively square peg into a slightly larger square hole under stress, but when it comes time to drop the slide we suddenly lose our minds and are unable to hit a lever? I think not. That's just a bunch of gun magazine BS that's been repeated endlessly as fact, and as such lots of people who don't know any better regurgitate it as fact.


THANK YOU.

About time we started giving ourselves a little freaking credit...

I took 2 HG classes this past Summer, and in both I did what the instructor told us to do, but I honestly can't remember consciously changing a magazine. I either did it during breaks (administrative reload) or pretty much subconsciously when I ran it dry during a drill...

I DID however catch myself using an either/or method, whichever got the slide shut with a round in the chamber faster... (which amounted to the slingshot method when using a 1911, and the slide stop with a SIG).
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John_Wayne777
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Posted: 12/2/2009 3:59:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By macman37:
(which amounted to the slingshot method when using a 1911, and the slide stop with a SIG).


...which makes you some sort of freak. Generally it's the other way around.
It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. - George Washington

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JonnyVain
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Posted: 12/2/2009 4:06:18 PM EST
The freakin sights on a Glock cover the entire target. It's like aiming with a pancake.
macman37
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Posted: 12/2/2009 4:09:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By macman37:
(which amounted to the slingshot method when using a 1911, and the slide stop with a SIG).


...which makes you some sort of freak. Generally it's the other way around.


Has to do with where the slide release/stops are for my hands more than anything I think.

I've spent hours in my basement with each figuring out which works as automatically as possible for me.

One thing I learned: A staggered-column mag is way easier to insert quickly than a single stack. Yeah, Obvious stuff is obvious.
Let's Go Red Wings!

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BushBoar
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Posted: 12/2/2009 4:17:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I came to my conclusion that the G19 is the best overall 9mm in the world. Sure, there are great ones out there, but the 19 is the one 9mm I'll own and use now.

HH


I don't know about best 9mm in the world, but Lumpy has called the G19 the "thinking man's Glock."

High praise indeed.


I definitely think it's the most versatile handgun on the market.
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DieselEngineer
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Posted: 12/2/2009 5:35:21 PM EST
Timely thread resurrection. I am picking up my first Glock (19) on Friday.
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usp45c
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Posted: 2/19/2010 5:35:57 PM EST
I put in ghost 3.5's on my Glocks

(another shameless antiarchive bump)
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pdg45acp
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Posted: 2/19/2010 6:11:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By usp45c:
I put in ghost 3.5's on my Glocks

(another shameless antiarchive bump)


Glocks are worth bumping.

Every rifle I shoot is scoped. Its not like all the fucking screw drivers will disappear and you can't remove it if you want to. - axl
HeavyMetal
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Posted: 2/19/2010 6:14:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By JonnyVain:
The freakin sights on a Glock cover the entire target. It's like aiming with a pancake.


Big Dots would fix this! Bwahahahahahahahah!
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urbanpi
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Posted: 2/19/2010 7:44:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
People still don't understand a slide stop is not used as a slide release.................Then claim since they can't use it that way, it's the gun's fault.
IIRC the Glock manual even says it can be released via what they call a slide release, not a slide stop.


Yes it "may," but hasn't everyone here with any real training learned to keep their damn thumbs away from the stop/release???????? I haven't touched this device on any of my handguns in 18 years.
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usp45c
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Posted: 4/26/2010 9:55:57 PM EST
I like the XS sights, the small dot version. I don't have them on my 19's yet. What night sights sights offer quick aquisition as the XS?
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Ragin_Cajun
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Posted: 4/26/2010 10:26:01 PM EST
Last 3-gun match, my G17 delivered 8 hits on 8 targets with 8 shots, being run by an out-of-practice shooter.

Truly a "Grab-&-Go" weapon
Ohne Schwefel und Salpeter gibt's keine Freiheit!

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BusMaster007
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Posted: 4/26/2010 10:27:02 PM EST
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Oneiros
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Posted: 4/26/2010 11:10:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/26/2010 11:12:48 PM EST by Oneiros]
1. Whoever modified their Glock like in the above picture is retarded. Just because you're not used to a gun, doesn't mean it doesn't function well. There's a difference between not being able to shoot a gun well and just not being able to shoot without applying the same outmoded formula of slapping as many aftermarket parts are you possibly can on a gun in the name of "improvement," probably something that guy learned from many years of shooting and owning 1911's.

2. I have a shitload of Glicks (12+), I carry one daily. I only trust Glocks with my life.

3. I experienced a bit of "Glock shock" as mentioned when I bought a bunch of used police academy Glocks for dirt cheap. 3/7 of them had cracked slides (they were G17's). These look like they had LITERALLY 500k+ rounds through them. You just had to see them to believe it. Also, all the sights on the cracked slide guns were drifted, to compensate for shooting off because the slide was cracked. They actually trained on these guns with the slides cracked and probably never even notice, other than suddenly they started shooting to the left! They probably thought they shot out the barrels or something.

Anyway, I sent these Glocks back to Glock, and they sent me back brand new third gen refubs. Since they only had one G17 refurb in stock (which was NIB, it was amazing), they said I could pick other models for them to send me back in lieu of more 17's. So I chose a G26 and a G29, those arrived in almost but not quite NIB condition. I carry the G29 daily.

Needless to say, my Glock shock vanished when I witnessed Glock's customer service. You just cannot beat it. For barely 300 bucks shipped (what I paid per used g17), I was sent three basically brand new refurbs. I later traded the G17 to a member on here for a similar condition G20.

Ask me about the LNIB G21 (3rd gen) I got for 275 shipped!



Love Glocks.

I am getting to the point where I want to branch out in guns more. I have all the calibers I really want in Glocks now that I have 10mm, and I've been drooling over a nice 1911 (double stack only), Hi-Power, or CZ.

I doubt I'll cease carrying Glocks daily any time soon. I do carry other guns every once in awhile if I've shot them and know they're reliable with the ammo I'm carrying in them just for novelty, but even when I do that, 9 times out of 10 I still keep my Glock in my pocket as a backup, in case that fails.

Some of my friends can't stand that I think Glocks are more reliable than H&K's.

Then again most people can't stand that I think AK's are more reliable than AR's, either.




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Posted: 4/26/2010 11:28:22 PM EST
WOW! Well written and well worth reading, thanks J_W!
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Posted: 4/26/2010 11:38:04 PM EST
More threads about "improving" a Glock.


HeavyMetal
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Posted: 4/27/2010 7:07:11 PM EST
Add sweatpants to ignore list.
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PinPointOne
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Posted: 4/27/2010 7:19:41 PM EST
I had a 22 gen 1 - it was accurate but the trigger-eeeccchhh.

The Austrian Staplegun.

I got a Sig instead.
usp45c
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Posted: 6/25/2010 10:51:43 PM EST
Has anybody tried the mini red dot type sight yet?
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usp45c
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Posted: 8/14/2011 6:55:03 PM EST
nobodies used a mini red dot?
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flyfishnepa
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Posted: 8/14/2011 7:13:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By usp45c:
nobodies used a mini red dot?


check back in a year


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iwouldntknow
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Posted: 8/14/2011 7:34:16 PM EST
I know some people have. I couldn't find any easy reference pictures. I bought a aimpoint micro base for a glock from larue, only ti find I had locktighted my aimpoint onto my larue rifle mount, so no joy there. I think I'll probably just get the slide milled and a Triji RMR mounted.
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Posted: 8/14/2011 7:43:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
Originally Posted By usp45c:
nobodies used a mini red dot?


check back in a year



Thread dedication.
The_Reaper
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Posted: 8/14/2011 7:50:12 PM EST
The only reason anyone hates Glocks is because they are so hooked on Colt they won't give them a chance.
As someone who owned a Glock first, the grip angle of the 1911 seemed to suck when I first held one.
I first owned a Remington 870. The Mossberg seemed to suck.
My wife's Honda sucks because it isn't what I'm used to.

Some people are too closed minded. To each their own.
As far as I'm concerned, you are better served to learn as many different types of firearms as possible.
I felt pretty stupid when I was first handed a 1911 and I didn't know how to operate the safety.

People who don't own Glocks and poke fun of the polymer frame....
Funny how Colt had problems with their Delta, but Glock didn't have problems with their Model 20.
The glass filled Nylon 66 frame has proven itself, as has the Tenifer treatment on the slide/barrel.
The overall design has proven itself, or it wouldn't be copied as much as it is.

Those who shout the loudest about the bad grip angle of the Glock...
the only thing I can figure is the shooter has little lady hands and can't get their fingers around a double-stack magazine.
If that is the case, stick to a single stack gun. But your shortcoming isn't a fault of the firearm.

Even my 19-month old daughter is an NRA Benefactor member
41magluva
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Posted: 8/14/2011 7:59:34 PM EST
I've had a G23 w/night sights since 1995. The only thing I ever did to alter it was to put one of those Hogue grip adapters on. This pistol is a champ, and shoots extremely well. I'm thinking about getting a twin in Gen III, just because.
MTUSA
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Posted: 8/14/2011 8:03:39 PM EST
I have shot and owned HK, M&P pistols..
Sold them all and only shoot/ carry Glocks now.

YMMV

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Government is force; like fire it is a dangerous servant -- and a fearful master.” —George Washington, 1797

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Posted: 8/14/2011 8:18:26 PM EST
wow necro-thread!
Better than he was before. Better, stronger, faster.
Beltfedleadhead
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Posted: 8/14/2011 9:30:22 PM EST
I am a die-hard 1911 guy, and even I have to admit...


I'm loving my new M&P 9mm!


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John_Wayne777
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Posted: 8/14/2011 9:33:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/14/2011 9:34:23 PM EST by John_Wayne777]
Originally Posted By usp45c:
nobodies used a mini red dot?


Wow...first, apologies for missing the original ask of that question over a year ago. Most people would have simply ignored it and moved on...but apparently your persistence is as well developed as your memory.

Anyhoo, about RDS and handguns, I haven't had the chance to run one extensively. I borrowed Larry Vickers' G17 for some live fire and my conclusions were thus:

My impressions from my brief time on LAV's gun:

1. The 8 MOA dot is probably about the right size. During the break before the night shoot on day 2 several students tried out the pistol and a couple managed to knock down 6" steel plates on the plate rack from 100 yards away. On the walkback drills LAV was ringing steel out to about 135 yards where we quit the drill so as not to end up shooting from the parking lot behind the range. With those kind of results it would be difficult to argue that the 8 MOA dot is a significant detriment to precision accuracy.

2. The dot, much like a laser, magnifies the movement in your hands as you try to aim at a target. This plays serious tricks on your mind. I found myself having trouble with twitch-fire (seeing a lot of movement in the sights and subconsciously trying to snap off a quick shot when the dot happens to be at the right spot resulting in jerking the trigger and anticipating recoil) which admittedly could have partially been because of the stiffer than usual trigger on LAV's Glock. It's a stock gun, but it felt worlds different than my Glocks.

3. I had trouble finding the dot and keeping track of it from shot to shot. Overall I found it much more difficult to use than iron sights and exponentially more difficult to use than a laser.

...but, again, there is a learning curve with these sights and I'm on the very steep part of the curve. If someone expects to pick one up, mount it on a pistol and then find that their shooting has instantly improved by 30%, I'd say they are in for disappointment. Individual results may vary, but I'd say that it will take at least a couple of thousand rounds downrange before someone really starts to "get" the mini-RDS. On the other hand, of those I know of that have gone the route of the RDS, the majority of them are swearing by it and don't ever want to go back to irons. They're getting great accuracy out of them.
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usp45c
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Posted: 8/15/2011 12:28:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
Originally Posted By usp45c:
nobodies used a mini red dot?


check back in a year




I did
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uxb
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Posted: 10/24/2012 2:59:26 PM EST
OST before it drops off to Archives
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Posted: 10/24/2012 3:55:38 PM EST
Good catch!
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Posted: 10/24/2012 4:01:39 PM EST
I approve of this pro-Glock thread.
This will have to do till I think of something cool.
AJE
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Posted: 10/24/2012 8:24:26 PM EST
Holy crap. I was about to ask if JW777 had tried a fourth gen with the new, bigger mag releases. I didn't realize this thread was more than four years old.

Fourth gen goodness.

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John_Wayne777
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Posted: 10/25/2012 8:13:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJE:
Holy crap. I was about to ask if JW777 had tried a fourth gen with the new, bigger mag releases. I didn't realize this thread was more than four years old.

Fourth gen goodness.



I have, in fact, spent some time on a 4th gen. The mag release isn't bad, but I still prefer the Tango Down gen 3 release. An instructor friend of mine ran 50,000 rounds through a 4th gen G17 and he had a slightly extended gen4 release that worked very well. It takes some getting used to. I'm convinced that if I spent more time with a gen4 gun I'd have no preference, but right now my hands prefer what's familiar.
It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. - George Washington
MTUSA
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Posted: 10/25/2012 8:17:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By USMC88-93:
informative

<––––––––-Considering Glock 21SF and 30SF purchase.


Had an M&P45. Hated it. Traded it for a new G21SF. Love it.


YMMV
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Posted: 10/25/2012 2:38:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
Show me another 15 round polymer frame pistol as compact as a Glock 19. Most are close but none are as compact overall. The Glock is an excellent pistol with tons of upgrades available.



better trigger, much better grip (thinner and better angle), Points like a Luger P-08, nice sites, drop free mags. Steyr M9 > Glock.
uxb
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BTT
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[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 3:38:39 PM EST by chapperjoe]
I am falling in love with mine.
After accepting some of the worst advice from a notorious web personality I went m&p which didn't work out.
this time I got a gen 3 new, had boresight solutions put on trijicon HD sights, gave me a trigger job, vickers mag and slide release.
this thing is BUTTER.
It needs a grip reduction, but even now it's butter.

the gen 4 mag release did nothing to help my small fingers release a mag.
the gen 3 with a vickers was perfect.

ETA: glock 17. got it from knesek right before the madness began.
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usp45c
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Posted: 2/6/2013 12:07:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By l1s1k:
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
Originally Posted By usp45c:
nobodies used a mini red dot?


check back in a year



Thread dedication.


Dammit, I'm late


"You live more riding bikes like these for 5 minutes than most do in their entire life" Marco Simoncelli.
John_Wayne777
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Posted: 2/6/2013 7:45:00 AM EST
Can't believe this thread is still alive.

I'm going to have to do an updated writeup of what I'm doing to my new Gen 4 G34.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 8:20:51 AM EST
I like the ergos of the M&P but the stock trigger is worse compared to the Glock trigger, which I have always been fine with.

I am unwilling to spend another $100+ on aftermarket parts to improve the M&P trigger.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 8:35:58 AM EST
Honestly, I've not read but about 1/2 of this thread. This I can say, this thread is about %50 fail, and %50 win.

My thoughts:

Glocks are good handguns. They are simple, really. An idiots gun. Just like an AK family of rifles it takes minimal training, maintenance, and expertise to use. Are they best? Nah, no such thing, really. I think in many cases we have people that have been struck with the "band wagon" effect, and that is a bit silly and sad, really. I think there are a lot of Glock fan boi's who saw someone shoot or heard someone rave about the Glock (and they themselves heard/saw the same), about how Glock is the "best", etc. If more people knew anything about how Glock markets their pistols and what they do in situations when they are competing for a contract, their tastes may sour a bit on the Glock company. Those with any knowledge of the ag machinery and implement markets from the 1970's and 1980's will understand what I'm referring to when I draw parallels between Glock and John Deere, they both did and still are doing things a bit shady but still legal. Sad but true. I've owned a few Glocks over the years and always ended up selling them because I've never really drank the kool-aid, they just were not my thing. To each their own.

This I do know: if I were in administration of a LEO department and I had final say on duty handguns, Glock would be ruled out as an option.

iwouldntknow
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Posted: 2/6/2013 6:07:25 PM EST
I think this goes here?
Glocks blow up, M&Ps unlock early and sling the bullets willy-nilly, 1911s jam, BHPs barely exist, Sigs and XDs do backflips when you shoot, and HKs hate you. -Grin
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Posted: 2/6/2013 6:40:35 PM EST
I have an H&K USP 9, S&W m&p 9, S&W 459, Kimber ultra carry II 45, XD45, 2 G19's, ruger GP100, S&W 586, colt anaconda, and a couple of ruger mk3 .22's.

I cannot shoot better than any of them than my stock G19's. They just work for me and I trust them with my life.
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Paulie771
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Posted: 10/6/2013 3:12:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2013 3:12:30 PM EST by Paulie771]
necro, neCRO, NECROPOST!!!

JW77: What are your thoughts on either the OEM beavertail or the Grip force adapter for the Gen 4? I get glock bite pretty bad and have just picked up a Gen 4 (used, so no OEM beavertail was included). Also, what mods would make to the Gen 4 (I'm planning on the 3.5# connector, but is the mag release necessary)?

Thanks.
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John_Wayne777
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Posted: 10/6/2013 9:44:21 PM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Paulie771:
JW77: What are your thoughts on either the OEM beavertail or the Grip force adapter for the Gen 4?


I put one on my Gen4 G34 right after getting it. I need the GFA to keep from bleeding with the Glocks. I prefer the GFA because it doesn't add any bulk to the grip. For whatever reason, Glock's factory beavertail add on adds more bulk to the grip. They assume, I guess, that the only people who need such a thing have hands the size of truck tires. While my hands are big, they ain't THAT big, so I greatly prefer the GFA.



Also, what mods would make to the Gen 4 (I'm planning on the 3.5# connector, but is the mag release necessary)?


http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/02/28/modifying-the-glock-part-1/
http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/03/07/modifying-the-glock-part-2/
http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/03/14/modifying-the-glock-part-3/

Those are a pretty good summary of what I've done to my Gen4 G34 so far. The one change is that I recently bought a set of Trijicon HD sights for it and I'm going to give those a run.
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usp45c
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Posted: 5/27/2014 7:46:58 PM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Can't believe this thread is still alive.

I'm going to have to do an updated writeup of what I'm doing to my new Gen 4 G34.



I'll be here next year to.
"You live more riding bikes like these for 5 minutes than most do in their entire life" Marco Simoncelli.
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