Git out yer tin foil hat. They gave a cursory mention that "conspiracy theorists" would get upset, but the retired Army guy they were interviewing (missed his name and rank) assured us they could keep a tight reign on the military. I gotta go practice my goose stepping.

Relax this is probably MSNBC inventing a new issue so they have something to bitch about.

Good.  You should be practicing.  

See, this whole terrorism thing is made up just so we (the military in cahoots with that tri-whatever-the-hell-commiccion) can climb aboard our black helicopters and come and get your guns.

-SARguy

And here they are now!  [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img]  [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img]  [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img][IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/aahmed/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

I actually expected to get more replies from the fruitcake faction. I guess I have been told what's what. I guess that whole division of military and police power was one of those ill conceived ideas meant for a kinder, gentler time when things weren't so complicated. Tin foil hat or not, checks and balances,baby.

In case you didn't notice... Bush made a widely publicized decision to allow suspected terrorists to be tried by military tribunal. They now have the direct power and authority to try and execute a "suspected terrorist" (whatever that is) outside of due process, in a foreign venue even.

They have the right to secretly enter a "suspected terrorist's" home. They have the right to listen to your phone conversations wherever you go.

If you own a business and are thought to be doing business with "suspected terrorists", they can secretly seize your financial information. They can freeze your assets.

As of today, you theoretically have no due process.

Why are a few MPs going to matter on the street corner with the donut patrol?

Your rights have already been sacrificed on the alter of counter-terrorism. It's a brave, new world. You just ain't realized it yet, or what it means. None of us have.

Science fiction happens.

...and I am not even a tinfoil hat wearer. Just some GenX internet programmer trying to make his way in the world and start a family.

For now.

It's when you start looking at the whole picture that I get unnerved.

The mere fact that this is a legitimate issue at present really makes me wonder.

[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=69938[/url]

My biggest problem with the whole Patriot Act from the beginning was the ambiguity of the word 'terrorist'... well that, and the fact that the only true portion to sunset is the electronic surveillance portion. There was no mention in the entirety of the text of the Patriot act which rescinded the secret searches (delayed warrant service) and seizures of business records from financial institutions.

So I start to look at the whole picture and think of some scenarios. How long will it take before a local law enforcement agency expands the definition on their own to include situations like oneshot1kill?

If the FBI is coming up with things like the infamous pamphlets in AZ then what keeps them from taking a case like oneshot1kill out of the local judge's hands and put him into a federal courtroom. What if it gets pushed into a military tribunal?

Now I know that Ashcroft has a pro-gun momentum, but frankly I don't like one person holding that much power over this kind of situation. What has he released regarding the stated restructuring of the FBI? If Homeland Defense exists without a budget, where are they going to get it and what is it all about?

If I dare even protest about any of it, I could run the risk of being present when a more fanatic-type person causes a riot (lived through those this spring in Cincinnati...). What if that person is hauled in under terrorist activities (per the expanded pamphlet description)? Am I at risk of being condidered a perpetrator, though I am only there protesting in a non-violent manner? Would I suffer the same fate?

I just have so so so many questions, but anymore I am almost too afraid to ask. Remember, you are branded a 'tinfoil hat' for even thinking about these things. You are an unpatriotic, paranoid, right-winger. Oh schitt!!! Those are listed on the pamphlets.

I don't like any of this at all. I am seriously watching with great concern. I am paying close attention to the subtlties... not the glam.

Does anyone else who isn't on Zoloft look at this stuff and wonder?

Didn't I say that people here would cheer on  the Constitution as it headed down the road to it's final destruction?

"Only applies to non-citizens" you say? When was the last time anything created by government HASN'T progressed above and beyond it's original purpose?

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade-unionists, and I did not speak out--because I was not a trade-unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me." - Pastor Martin Neimoller

Is Survivor on tonight?

I'm there with you Ben ... Right now, it's aimed at facilitating the war effort  - and yes, I am aware that my fathers generation "gave up" some of their liberties in the effort of that war - and they did get most of them back, but these aer different times.  

We have politicians in power that have no understanding of the oaththey took.  That the oath they took is simply a bunch of word in a silly ceremony.

Remember the price of liberty is eternal vigilance - so those that are calling "be vigilant" are all wearing tim foil hats?  Well, if that's what it takes.

As Scrooge says:
"answer me one question.  Are these the shadows of the things that Will be, or are they shadows of things that May be, only?"

And the rest is interesting also:
Still the Ghost pointed downward to the grave by which it
stood.

``Men's courses will foreshadow certain ends, to which, if persevered in, they must lead,'' said Scrooge.  ``But if the courses be departed from, the ends will change.  Say it is thus with what you show me!"

Let us hope and pray that these courses will be departed from in our case, as well.

Our wonderful government has never had a power it hasn't grossly abused.

But we mustn't say these things because people will call us 'tinfoil hats' and turn us in for being anti-American terrorists.

Posse Comitatus is one of the few things keeping the U.S. from becoming just another third world, tin badge dictatorship.  We must be extremely vigilant to define the line between protecting ourselves and relinquishing our freedoms for the illusion of safety.

To be honest with you all, I forgot what this Act was about... (and I've been completely in the dark lately - too busy...).

Blackie

- - - -

Here's a paper on the Posse Comitatus, from 1997:

[url]http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html[/url]