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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 11/12/2001 11:37:26 AM EDT
I have a C&R FFL. I live in NC in a county that borders both TN, & VA. I would like to sell a rifle to someone in TN. Can I do this legally (not according to the Constitution but the atf)? I know that the local wally world sells guns to TN residents, but I don't have the legal dept. that ww has. Help Please!! [b][red][i]Liberrtas an Mortis![/b][/red][/i]
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 11:41:22 AM EDT
Yes you can sell him a rifle. If it is another C&R FFL holder then it doesn't matter where they are. Michael
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 12:04:37 PM EDT
No he is not an FFL, just Mr. John Q. Public. [b][red][i]Libertas an Mortis![/b][/red][/i]
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 12:05:40 PM EDT
If it was logged in to your C&R FFL book, you can only sell it to another FFL or C&R, not to an individual. The C&R is a *collector* license, not a license to do business.
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 12:10:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Malpaso: If it was logged in to your C&R FFL book, you can only sell it to another FFL or C&R, not to an individual. The C&R is a *collector* license, not a license to do business.
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This is complete BS. Do you even have a C&R FFL? If so I suggest you reread the material that was sent with it from the BATF. Just because you sell a gun from your collection doesn't mean you are engaging in a business. By your line of logic anyone who ever sold a gun would need a type 01 FFL. Go back to thinking up some conspiracy theories about the plane crash. Michael
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 12:24:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: This is complete BS. Do you even have a C&R FFL? If so I suggest you reread the material that was sent with it from the BATF. Michael
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From the BATF regs: "The principal advantage of a Collector's License is that a collector can acquire curios or relics in interstate commerce. A licensed collector may acquire and dispose of curios or relics at any location; however, dispositions to nonlicensees must be made to residents of the same State in which the collector is licensed. The licensed collector has the same status as a nonlicensee with respect to transactions involving firearms that are not classified as curios or relics. An individual must be licensed in order to lawfully receive curios or relics in interstate commerce, i.e., from outside his or her State of residence." So genius, before you start giving out information that might get someone landed in jail, I suggest you follow your own suggestions about reading the info the BATF send out.
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 12:55:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: This is complete BS. Do you even have a C&R FFL? If so I suggest you reread the material that was sent with it from the BATF. Michael
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From the BATF regs: "The principal advantage of a Collector's License is that a collector can acquire curios or relics in interstate commerce. A licensed collector may acquire and dispose of curios or relics at any location; however, dispositions to nonlicensees must be made to residents of the same State in which the collector is licensed. The licensed collector has the same status as a nonlicensee with respect to transactions involving firearms that are not classified as curios or relics. An individual must be licensed in order to lawfully receive curios or relics in interstate commerce, i.e., from outside his or her State of residence." So genius, before you start giving out information that might get someone landed in jail, I suggest you follow your own suggestions about reading the info the BATF send out.
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Sorry, I didn't use the correct grammar in my initial reply. I was assuming that the buyer was another C&R FFL. It should have said,"If the purchaser is a C&R FFL then you can sell him the rifle, it doesn't matter where a C&R lives". As to your, "If it was logged in to your C&R FFL book, you can only sell it to another FFL or C&R, not to an individual." This is blatantly wrong as evidenced by your second post. I admit that my first reply was poorly worded and easily misinterpreted. Yours, however, is just wrong. Michael
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 12:56:52 PM EDT
Malpaso, A C&R license holder can sell to any resident of his home state that is authorized to possess a firearm. He does not have to sell to another licensee. Mtpatriot, You cannot legally sell any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state.
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 12:58:21 PM EDT
What part of "dispositions to nonlicensees must be made to residents of the same State in which the collector is licensed." don't you understand? mtnpatriot is in NC and the buyer is in TN!
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 1:00:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy: Malpaso, A C&R license holder can sell to any resident of his home state that is authorized to possess a firearm. He does not have to sell to another licensee.
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Ok, maybe I wasn't clear either. I assumed we were talking only about interstate sales. Mea Culpa
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 1:09:19 PM EDT
[b]1st question - can you sell a rifle logged in your C&R boundbook?[/b] Yes. [i]A licensed collector may acquire and [b]dispose[/b] of curios or relics[/i] In other words, the ATF understands that normal maintenance of a collection includes selling. However, you cannot show a pattern of business. So, selling a rifle or two to thin our your collection? Okay. Buying and selling rifles to make a profit or to distribute? Not okay. [b]2nd question - can you sell a rifle logged in your C&R boundbook out-of-state?[/b] !IN MY OPINION! Yes. However, unless the recipient is also a C&R holder, the rifle must be sent through a regular FFL, just like any other interstate firearm transfer. The C&R regs do not give specific instructions on transfering a C&R firearm out-of-state to a non-licensee, which seems to imply that the broader "though an FFL" law would apply instead. Here is the plain text on the ATF's website: [url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/27cfr178.htm[/url] Section 178.96 (c)(1) (page 957) seems to suggest that a licensed collector can sell to a non-licensed person out-of-state if... It is not very clear after that. Over at www.gunboards.com, they have a specific forum for FFL questions. This particular question was asked in thread [url]http://www.gunboards.com/forums/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=33&TID=5&SID=528954[/url]. The last answer given seems to match my reply. LL
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 1:10:14 PM EDT
Thanks fellas. Thats what I needed to know. [b][red][i]Libertas an Mortis![/b][/red][/i]
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 1:14:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mtnpatriot: Thanks fellas. Thats what I needed to know. [b][red][i]Libertas an Mortis![/b][/red][/i]
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And nobody died in the process! Ponyboy: I'll keep a cooler head in the future (and write clearer as well) if you do. BTW, on the Queens plane conspiracy post, note the [;)]
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 1:21:44 PM EDT
This is Ponyboy's wife. I just wanted to let the people on this site that he cares so much about that he was just wheeled off to the morgue, dead from a heart attack. He was busy sitting at his computer typing away and muttering something about C and R when he just fell over dead. I'll post more information later...... Michelle
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 3:03:31 PM EDT
[b]LMAO![/b]
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 7:03:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2001 7:15:42 PM EDT by Dolomite]
Lot of misinformation rolling around out there regarding C&R's - a person would have to be a complete moron to actually get one of those stupid licenses. That being said, allow me to quote liberally from ATF P 5300.11 [u]Firearms Curios or Relics List[/u] sent to me by the ATF last March: [b]Page 6 [27 CFR 178.96 (c)(1)] [i]A licensed collector is specifically authorized to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State[/i] as long as 1.) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee's premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun; and 2.) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such states.[/b] The bottom line here is it is legal to sell, transfer, and deliver the C&R rifle you've got in your book to a sucker in another state as long as the above conditions are met. May I suggest however, that you hold off doing so until you've got ahold of a copy of the latest C&R list ATF P 5300.11 3-2001 (from those swell folks at the ATF Distribution Center,703-455-7801), because this [i]exact[/i] question is asked in the FAQ section of this pub. You'd find yourself in a pretty sad position if your legal defense was that some guy on the Internet named Dolomite said the transfer was cool. (just doing what I can with what I got)
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